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|#84 - Picture||07/08/2012 on Finding Out True Love is Blind||+9|
|#49 - Implying you can't grow tobacco.||07/07/2012 on True that||0|
|#37 - Picture||07/06/2012 on uppity negros||+2|
|#157 - Implying Vault-tec would go throught the work of gathering 999…||07/06/2012 on Sign up for a Vault-Tec...||+1|
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|#86 - Implying that he's trying to get his social life away from FJ.||07/06/2012 on Don't fuck with moms||+5|
|#293 - Thanks for the clarification.||07/06/2012 on Fact||0|
|#285 - You're not really making a valid point. You can have morals an… [+] (21 new replies)||07/06/2012 on Fact||+1|
#309 - noblexfenrir (07/06/2012) [-]
You see, that point fails when you ask a religious person if they would kill somebody if god told them to. To which you receive the answer: "Well if I know it was god, then I would have no choice" This shows that the morals set because of religion only exist because they believe god has set them, if commanded anything else by god they would do it. Meaning their morals are incredibly subjective to just whatever god is feeling that morning.
This implies religious people don't develop any form of morality, only follow orders. Blindly.
#364 - noblexfenrir (07/07/2012) [-]
And genocide on a bigger scale is called population control. all you are doing is taking a situation and removing the empathetic aspect of it. It's not murder, it's a ceasing of cellular reproduction in an organism.
and also, morals don't exist on a bigger picture. Morals aren't pre-defined. So for humans, human-subjective morals are all that exist (for humans). To imply that a pre-set idea for something to be wrong or right is written is ludicrous.
#367 - lolzordz (07/08/2012) [-]
i didnt say morals exist on a bigger picture. but pre-set ideas are written for humans in their DNA so no, it isnt so ludicrous to have relevant rules and laws for human life to glide smoother.
i aint saying religion is smooth but its original intentions were for exactly that. it seems there is no taming the greedy and barbaric side of the human race
#368 - noblexfenrir (07/08/2012) [-]
"Pre-set ideas are written for humans in their DNA"
No this is false. First of all, please tell me how an idea can be written in someones DNA towards preference to an action? Is preference of a prius over a ford f-350 written in DNA to?
Makes no sense.
Because to also have this be true then everyone would follow it no? That's not the case, everyone has variations in their morals. Some slightly, (some say stealing is never okay, others make exceptions for large corporations, others make exceptions if you're starving, etc etc) so radically (they earnestly think murder is perfectly fine.).
We learn and evolve our morals. It's really just that simple.
#370 - lolzordz (07/09/2012) [-]
im talking about the basis of our dna, not little choices. thats variety that makes us all special. i dont want to argue, i know what i believe in and you like-wise. though i know im not wrong as well.
dont see religion in a hateful way just because of a few extremists, religion was originally a genuine attempt at making humans better creatures of the earth, lets leave it at that
#371 - noblexfenrir (07/09/2012) [-]
You see, you can't say you don't want to argue, but make it a point to mention "I know I'm not wrong as well". When you are wrong. You are implying that humans have a moral base that is built into our DNA I am saying that's bullshit, because it is. You have no basis to believe that except that you probably want to think there is a right and a wrong. Otherwise there is nothing to prove that and the only reason people think we need a higher moral authority (whether it be god or genetic) is because they don't like the thought that there really is none and we make this up as we go along. (And while that is a very simplistic generalization of the process we use to discover our morals and develop them, it is in essence true.)
I don't see religion in a hateful way, I see it as an idiotic idea that should have died out a long time ago. Religion doesn't want people to be better persons, it was developed to answer gaps in our knowledge/ make money/ and control people. That is it.
#372 - lolzordz (07/09/2012) [-]
oh my god, now i see its really pointless arguing with you.
i have NEVER said we have a moral basis, i just said we have a natural basis.
think of it as a path, humans have a path which requires different rules than a spider's path. the sets of rules which suit a humans path best are then set by certain people who took the privilege, and a very long time, to figure out which factors would work best in the bigger picture for a human's future.
if you dont understand that then, as i said, you cannot handle this 'debate' with me and should leave it out cause i dont care to talk to a brick wall..
#373 - noblexfenrir (07/09/2012) [-]
You don't understand what I'm saying then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what you've been saying I've been getting the idea that you are saying humans (IN ANY WAY) are predisposed to a certain order of things. The 'path' you mentioned if you will.
Don't act like what you've been saying has been coherent because it hasn't. You've jumped from god, to our DNA, to the basic actions we take as animals. So sorry if I seem like a brick wall, but it's due to you not being able to get an idea across without mucking it up through multiple flawed transitional pathways.
#374 - lolzordz (07/10/2012) [-]
like i said in my first reply to you - you dont really see how religious people see god. (though i forgot to exclude dumbass religion followers. there are also dumbass atheist followers too etc.. im sure you agree)
god isnt a man in the sky. all that is just a depiction for our (back in those days) primitive minds to be able to understand how god works
god is actually life itself, we 'obey his ways' in order to be at peace.
#375 - noblexfenrir (07/10/2012) [-]
I see what you are saying now, but that conventional view of god isn't really held by religious people. You see, I would understand if they believe god is a working order and by definition could also work in the same way as nature does, it's just a personified version of it to make it easily understandable as a concept.
However, religion in itself denies this premise by making god an absolute ruler whose word is law, instead of naturalized law being his word. A very simple distinction but one that creates a huge gap between the ideas.
#376 - lolzordz (07/11/2012) [-]
people tend to stereotype and judge a concept based on the majority of its followers. however, i completely agree with you, christianity (which is probably the religion you refer to when speaking of religion in itself) is fueled by fear of god and his wrath, which is a load of bollocks...
nice debate though anyway...
#290 - sailorsmooth (07/06/2012) [-]
Disregard the second part of the picture I posted. Without it, my point was valid and I didn't remember that it included that part. I was just trying to even the playing field in fairness between theism and atheism. My point was being religious shouldn't sway your morals as a person one way or the other.
#365 - noblexfenrir (07/07/2012) [-]
Everyone practices morals, every single person. There is nothing religiously induced about it. There is no such thing as a 'good' person because everyone has different sets of morals and ethics. Saying there is one perfect set is laughably wrong.
and religion isn't about practicing being a good person, well monotheistic ones atleast, require you follow this god without fault. So yes it does bother me that they say they are a good person and give their idea of what a good person does, however if their god every demands different, they wouldn't think twice.
#366 - lolzordz (07/08/2012) [-]
im not religious or anything but i see alot of judaism and i can tell you now, all they do is try to be good all their life. i understand 'good and evil' are subjective concepts but at least there are rules and traditions which they abide by to keep them in a straight line along with how nature works.
and keeping in line with nature is what i believe to be 'good'
#369 - noblexfenrir (07/08/2012) [-]
They don't try to be 'good' in their life. They aren't adhering to any specific moral set out of choice or because they see it as the best option, they do it out of fear because if they don't their sky-daddy tortures them for eternity. This isn't someone doing good for no reason, it's out of fear. It's a scary thought to think that the only difference between a christian/jew/muslim and Ted Bundy, is just what their god says to them.
#321 - 2scared2login (07/06/2012) [-]
HA! If only more people would see it that way....
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