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Rank #9667 on SubscribersLevel 224 Comments: Mind Blower
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latest user's comments
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#271 - goodhomer (03/09/2015) [-]
Rights do not impose on others.
Your right to life, and the infant's right to life, does not supersede the right to bodily autonomy. The baby has every right to live as long as it doesn't do so inside of another person's body without their consent.
Let me put it this way:
Is a mother legally obligated to give an organ, like a kidney, to her child? If the answer is no, then she also does not have to give a child her womb. So far, from a legal standpoint, the answer is no.
Also, secular =! smart. I know a lot of dumb secular people.
#283 - phantompaladin (03/09/2015) [-]
That makes no sense. You make it sound like some fetus just strolled up to a woman and was like "hey gimmie ur tummy honey" and she's like "no i have rights foo".
Unless the mother was raped, it is her responsibility to grow that child until it is born. She forced that life, she shouldn't get any say on wether or not she can kill it.
Same with a man, he should support the mother for the 9 months until its born, then if they choose to give it for adoption then they do so and wipe their hands from the child's life. Just don't kill it, god damn.
#300 - ChewyConor (03/09/2015) [-]
I think the point of the previous guy's position was that it was the mother who (at least partially, excepting rape) instigated the situation involving more parties than just herself (and her sexual partner) so shouldn't have the absolute right to avoid the situation without agreement from all parties.
If you want to go down a legal debate route you could liken getting pregnant to making a contract offer to another person to support them into becoming a human life.
You can enter into a contract with your actions without signing anything by parking in a private car park, or by using a product/service, or by ticking a box on the internet. Why can't you be considered to be entering a contract by having sex; taking on the responsibility of the risk you're taking that you might get pregnant?
The only reason that isn't the legal position is because nobody decided that would be the legal position.
#307 - ChewyConor (03/09/2015) [-]
"The legal position" is only what legislators historically decided it would be. It is not absolute or unchanging.
It would not be unreasonable or unthinkable for legislators to have historically decided that sexual intercourse is akin to making a contract offer with the legal entity that would be created were your actions to result in pregnancy.
Just because that wasn't decided at any point doesn't mean it shouldn't have been. If history were repeated slightly differently, you can't honestly believe we'd have the exact same system of laws in place, can you?
So the question is not "What IS the legal position?", it is "What SHOULD BE the legal position?"
#310 - goodhomer (03/09/2015) [-]
The question is: Give me one SECULAR reason why abortion should be illegal.
Merely saying "Laws can change" is not an argument against abortion.
What you are saying is fallacious anyway because any law at any time could possibly change doesn't mean that it will or that it should.
#333 - ChewyConor (03/09/2015) [-]
"Give me one SECULAR reason" isn't synonymous with "put forward an argument that would hold up in court"
If the morality dictates a different result than the law, then the law should change.
We're not debating whether abortion is or is not legal, we're debating whether the law should change. I only put forward one legal position which could easily be implemented by precedent.
#294 - goodhomer (03/09/2015) [-]
I agree that Murder is illegal. What I do not agree with is that killing = murder.
I agree 100% that the mother is killing the fetus. I give no false sense of life like some other people might. What I am saying is that just because you kill someone does not necessarily mean you have murdered them.
There are legal precedents that account for the legal killing of another human and abortion is one of them.
Now, you have yet to tell me where the responsibility comes from. You are still just saying 'because I say so.' From a legal standpoint consent to sex =! consent to pregnancy. This is easily shown because poking holes in a condom is a form of sexual assault.
#298 - phantompaladin (03/09/2015) [-]
I mentioned that the responsibility comes from the parents. As I said, unless it was rape. So now I'm wondering what you're getting at by asking where the responsibility comes from. I feel I answered that question twice so maybe you can be a bit more specific as to your meaning.
#308 - phantompaladin (03/09/2015) [-]
Yes but isn't what we are obligated and not obligated to do determined by law? If that's the case, then the law of whatever country your in overwrites moral obligation. We know from the past and present that governments will condone or condemn actions that the average person knows to be right or wrong. Is pregnancy not a legal obligation in some countries/states?
#325 - goodhomer (03/09/2015) [-]
The law dictates all obligations. What you consider moral or not is a personal choice but that doesn't mean you can be compelled to do it.
I think that from a moral standpoint, all people should be forced to exercise, that does not mean that you have an obligation to do so because what I THINK and what you MUST do are two totally different things.
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