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|#1 - As annoying Ricky Gervais is with his anti religion ***… [+] (58 new replies)||07/02/2014 on Now that he's thi||+230|
#182 - cannibalvegan (07/02/2014) [-]
TL;DR: Gervais is funny, but his whining about religion makes everything else he does seem annoying IMO.
#245 - cannibalvegan (07/03/2014) [-]
Don't be that guy, if someone says that they're an Agnostic just assume they don't care much for religion nor atheism and they don't claim to know or deny any existense of a deity, don't go on and be like "Umm, I'm just like wondering if you are an Agnostic Thiest or an Agnostic Atheist because technically Agnosticisim isn't a middle ground between Atheism and Theism so please explain more, please?". Nobody likes that guy.
Shit wasn't even related, I'm not discussing my religious views here, I'm just saying I'm fed up with Ricky Gervais' whining.
#208 - sarahm (07/02/2014) [-]
That is not what Apatheism is. It's an indifference towards religion, meaning you don't feel a need for thinking about what religion is right/wrong, or if there is a god(s) etc etc , but that doesn't mean you have to be a dick towards people who do have a need for it in their life, because some people just like to believe, it's that simple. Just respect other people's religions and don't be a douchebag.
#82 - anonymous (07/02/2014) [-]
Dude but.. Religion is bullshit.
#191 - anonymous (07/02/2014) [-]
Well that depends entirely on how bad the one thing is, and how much better than it the other thing is. Can't be saying everything that is better than a bad thing isn't a good thing...that is way to all encompassing, and would mean that only things worse than a bad thing could be good, which does not make sense.
#122 - hanabro (07/02/2014) [-]
But I don't actively hold a disbelief in god either, so I can't be an atheist, which, by definition, means that I can't be atheist either.
The point that I'm trying to make here, is that you know very little about Agnosticism. What you're talking about is partial agnosticism: agnosticism as a modifier for either atheism or a theistic religion. "I don't know, but I believe..." What you apparently don't know about is hard and soft agnosticism; "I don't know, neither can you, and we never will," and "I don't know, but maybe we can find out." There's also apathetic agnosticism; "I don't know, and it doesn't matter." Those final three types of agnosticism are more hard-line: they identify with no religions or atheism, solely identifying as "Agnostic." Personally, I fall under soft agnosticism. I'm not an "Agnostic Atheist" because I do not believe that god does not exist. My only belief on the matter is that I don't know enough to have a belief on the matter.
#225 - hanabro (07/03/2014) [-]
Hate to go full tumblrtard, but other people can't tell people how to identify themselves. If someone doesn't want to identify as atheist, they don't have to. When you're talking about your own religious beliefs, nobody but yourself can identify you. One of my friends identifies as a Jew even though he believes in the new testament and Jesus, because of differences he has that disassociates himself with Christianity.
Also, Atheism is not simply lacking belief in a deity, it is actively rejecting the possibility. Somebody who does not know of the possibility is an Apathetic/Pragmatic Agnostic.
There are, however, several different schools of thought on agnosticism. You are quoting a different one than I am. Neither of us is actually right or wrong, as the concept of religious identity is purely philosophical, and very fluid and non-binary.
#235 - YllekNayr (07/03/2014) [-]
Look, dude, I'm tryin to level with you here, but I don't know how else I can explain it to you. What you are describing, the thing you keep saying you are NOT, is Gnostic Atheism. You have confused atheism in general with gnostic atheism.
What you ARE is an agnostic atheist. Which means you are not actively theist, and you don't claim to KNOW there are no gods.
#236 - YllekNayr (07/03/2014) [-]
Dude, I'm tryin to be cordial here, but you're startin to piss me off a bit.
It's not MY opinion. it is the generally accepted definition of atheism. You are doing EXACTLY what you are bitching at me for, which is assuming yours is right without considering what I'm actually saying.
If you can't read the chart, and refuse to understand what it's saying, I'm done here.
#238 - YllekNayr (07/03/2014) [-]
For the longest time I identified as simply "agnostic" and declined my friend's offer of reading the atheist subreddit. After I did a bit of research on what atheism actually was, I realized that the term was accurate for what I identified as, and I didn't have to change anything about what I thought or believed to call myself as such.
There's a kind of frustration by the atheist community at self-described agnostics who claim to be a middle ground and think all atheists are gnostic theists.
To drive home the point of why absence of belief is atheism, look at the word itself. Being "moral" is having a sense of right and wrong. Being "immoral" is going against right and wrong. Being "amoral" is without a sense of right and wrong. Asexual is without sexual desire. The prefix A- means without.
Theism is belief in a god. Atheism is a lack of that. Nothing more. No claim. It is a negative position; one that people hold by default until they choose something more active, like theism, or gnostic atheism.
#239 - hanabro (07/03/2014) [-]
You're absolutely right, about everything, honestly. The problem comes with the general population's PERCEPTION of atheism. Atheism is always going to be associated with the "fedora" crowd, like a lot of your friends on r/atheism, for example. Be it agnostic or gnostic, everyone will assume atheist means gnostic atheist. Even if you say you are, "Agnostic atheist," people will make the assumption that you discredit the belief of a deity, because they hear the word atheist. Therefore, I associate solely with agnostic to disassociate myself with atheism.
I'll admit, I've been playing a lot of devil's advocate here. I'm well aware of how agnosticism works. I've been acting how people have acted toward me when I used to say I was agnostic atheist. Then I got into the religious identity bullshit, which I apologize for, as we could have had a pretty decent discussion without the mindless trolling.
#240 - YllekNayr (07/03/2014) [-]
The first paragraph is precisely WHY there was the slight annoyance at those who say agnostic when they know they're atheist. They are contributing to the stigmatization of atheists by making them 'that other group" since the rational, normal people must be agnostics. I identify as an atheist so people know that it's NOT about KNOWING or being a dick or fedora or anything, even if people sometimes give me crap for it, and will continue to do so until atheists as a group stop being considered less trustworthy than rapists, according to poll data.
#151 - gammajk (07/02/2014) [-]
>which, by definition, means that I can't be atheist either.
And this is where you don't understand. Atheism is NOT the belief that "there is no god". Atheism is the DEFAULT POSITION. If you had lived your entire life without ever hearing the concept of a god, you would be an atheist. All babies are atheists.
Belief and knowledge are not mutually exclusive. You have a belief regardless of what you actually know.
I personally like Matt Dillahunty's explanation of it - it depends on how exactly you define "knowledge". He explains knowledge as being a belief to such a high degree of certainty that it would be world-view altering to find out that your belief is false. As such, theism is a scale that goes from gnostic theism --- agnostic theism --- agnostic atheism --- gnostic atheism. There is no "in between" agnostic atheism and agnostic theism. You either hold the belief that god exists or you don't. If you don't believe it, that is still a NEUTRAL POSITION. Rejecting a claim is NOT in it of itself a positive claim. And don't try "well I haven't rejected it", because you obviously have.
#132 - anonymous (07/02/2014) [-]
you two are basically two idiots arguing semantics.
#15 - anonymous (07/02/2014) [-]
How do you know he's agnostic atheist?
He might be agnostic theist.
#59 - YllekNayr (07/02/2014) [-]
.....................I can't quite make out what exactly you mean to say. But I'm pretty sure I already know.
He pointed out he's agnostic so people wouldn't accuse him of hating for being religious.
Erego, he's not religious, and probably atheistic, rather than theistic.
#62 - ninjaroo (07/02/2014) [-]
It could also mean that he's not very religious, so he has no reason to be offended.
"I don't hate you because I'm racist" simply states that it's not the reason behind hating you, it doesn't actually comment on whether or not I'm racist.
If I had to guess I'd say he is agnostic atheist, because that's what most people mean when they say agnostic, but it's perfectly possible he meant agnostic theist.
#150 - Bion (07/02/2014) [-]
"I like cake. I don't like dogs, but it's not because I like cake."
"I'm religious. I don't like that guy, but it's not because I'm religious."
Of course, I believe the guy is an atheist. I'm just clarifying how he didn't actually say which he was, even though Atheist was implied.
#3 - anonymous (07/02/2014) [-]
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