Rank #3057 on CommentsLevel 234 Comments: Ambassador Of Lulz
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|Date Signed Up:||12/22/2011|
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Level 234 Comments: Ambassador Of Lulz → Level 235 Comments: Ambassador Of Lulz
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|Total Comments Made:||4241|
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|#10 - vietnam pic with that statement. so the only way out is to los… [+] (19 new replies)||06/13/2016 on Orlando Shooting||+4|
#13 - anon (06/13/2016) [-]
We didn't lose. We kicked the shit out of them. We lost ~50,000 soldiers. They lost ~1,000,000. It was only due to negative PR and a determination that "we aren't really getting much out of this even if we win" that led to our withdrawal.
#18 - anon (06/13/2016) [-]
America lost in Vietnam
USSR lost in Afghanistan
Germany lost ww2
The "Muh KD" argument can't and never will hold water.
#20 - anon (06/13/2016) [-]
I wouldn't call it a "win" if practically your entire country is left in shambles and on fire with a massive chunk of your population and forces dead. Germany lost ww2 because their country was overrun by enemy forces and dismantled by the enemy. Not really comparable to Vietnam. And the USSR lost because of economic collapse. Again, not the same as Vietnam (though it was similar). Not to mention, Afghanistan was far from a "victor" in that fight, as well. It was mostly a one sided massacre by Russia.
#81 - vvthegreats (06/14/2016) [-]
Except we only saw through one of our two objectives. We never took down the Communism in Vietnam but we DID stop the Domino Effect. But, really, if it was a proxy war, which I can see it being (but it definitely was not as it was only a war on Communism), then we lost because China is wrecking us right now and they are still Communist. Sure they may be hardly Communist, but the fact that freedom of speech is nonexistent and they declare themselves Communist proves my point.
NOTE: I do not side with Communism, but Capitalism is pretty fucked up.
#96 - masanori (06/14/2016) [-]
People love to gloat about the U.S. being "beaten by Vietnam" to rub it in our faces. Saying we were beaten is ignorant because we walked away, we weren't forced to. I was only adding to the points that had been made about why classifying it as an unqualified "loss" is stupid, for example, Vietnam had outside help from TWO large countries, so it was really 3 on one. I never claimed that means we won, only that it was never just a war with Vietnam. The comment I responded to didn't claim that we won either, only that walking away from a wrecked country because it's a bigger pain in the ass than it's worth after beating the shit out of them isn't a loss in the sense that we weren't beaten. If anything, it was a loss for everyone, but the common narrative is "lol duh you ess couldn't even beat a tiny country poking dem with stix in duh jungle lol."
"A proxy war is a conflict between two nations where neither country directly engages the other. While this can encompass a breadth of armed confrontation, its core definition hinges on two separate powers utilizing external strife to somehow attack the interests or territorial holdings of the other. This frequently involves both countries fighting their opponent's allies, or assisting their allies in fighting their opponent."
It was a proxy war in the sense that both Russia and China "fought us" by assisting Vietnam without formally engaging us themselves. That technically I only fulfills half the requirement because we were there ourselves, but in that case, what would you call it?
#98 - vvthegreats (06/14/2016) [-]
I'd call it a loss because to have been even backed off, forced or otherwise, by a puny ass country with minimal help from the U.S.S.R. and China makes us look like bitches (FYI we still do - even history professors agree). Dude I'd hardly call it a proxy war. and I agree with anon because even though we killed hella more Vietnamese warriors than they killed U.S. soldiers, they were able to stop us until we retreated (yes we literally pulled back from the war so we retreated).
And I'd still it call it the Vietnam War in which we never did what we went over there to do so in that sense it was a loss. I literally said that before. And the comment you were referring to basically wanted people to infer it.
And wouldn't you call a war in which no one won a loss as well? Just saying . . .
#99 - masanori (06/14/2016) [-]
170,000 Chinese soldiers is hardly minimal. That's a force 60% the size of the entire North Vietnamese force. More than a third of the entire military resistance we faced was Chinese.
As I said, if anything it was a loss all around. Militarily, the U.S. could have won easily. There were more factors in play than simple military force. You're oversimplifying the issues if you honestly believe it was an issue of military strength or ability.
#100 - vvthegreats (06/14/2016) [-]
When did I ever imply it was solely a matter of simple military force. And 170,000 soldiers? Okay bud if you believe that insane number go right ahead. At that point it wouldn't have JUST been a war with Vietnam. You really think the U.S. is that foolish as to allow China to plop 170,000 of their own soldiers into the enemy forces? BRUH. I don't know where you found that insane number, nor do I care where, because that is bullshit.