Social norms aren't always right. They're often born of superstition, blindly following tradition, and just not thinking whether these norms are right or wrong. Social norms have been a huge contributor of injustice over the course of human history. Examples being racism, sexism, religious extremism, discouragement of free thought, not questioning elders or leaders, and many other wrongdoings. Social norms are not that great, they discourage free thought more than anything else.

>You not approving doesn't mean shit

I said this didn't I? So we're in agreement?

I don't know where you got the idea that I was going to save the world from itself, but one problem at a time I guess. I'm just a philosopher, and philosophy is figuring out the right way to think about things.

"Superficial nonsense"? Going this insane over how someone dresses is superficial nonsense. How am I the one being superficially nonsensical?

Yeah I knew what was going to happen going into it so when Han started walking towards him I was like, "oh here we go", but when it happened and Chewie screamed out in rage at his best and closest friend of so many years dying right in front of him I got a little bit chocked up. Personally I'm glad I had it spoiled for me before I saw it because it made so many things better like Han and Chewie walking into the Falcon for the first time in so long, Han saying bye to Leia, all that sort of stuff

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.

Actually, I think you can force your soul out of your body and use it to view the world around you in a weird form of travel.

You know that "Out of body experience" people get when they're just inches from the grave? There's a form of meditation that allows a person to do that willingly, at least, supposedly anyway.

Honestly, I want to see if I can train my soul in that manner and kick Satan's ass or something, that'd be fun as hell....

Or god's ass....Maybe even both.... Possibly at the same time. That would be awesome.

They managed to cause an out-of-body experience using technology, so the idea that it has anything to do with your "soul" if it even exists is pretty outdated.

www.mindmods.com/mindmods/out-of-body-experiences-obe-/scientists-mimic-out-of-body-experience-using-techn.html

From what I read, this was visual experimentation upon the mind, not out of body experience.

The two are very different, there was a case a man saw an operation being done upon himself, to the point where he saw a nurse or doctor's tool fall off the tray when he was deeply unconscious.

I tried finding that specific source, but I got this one instead. After the explanation for what an out of body experience ACTUALLY is, they have examples, true I might add, of it afterwards.

www.near-death.com/science/research/out-of-body-experiences.html

The link you posted isn' very objective. They assume that consciousness will remain after someone's death. They say it "will be proven" before they have actual results, which is a terrible mindset towards scientific research in general. I prefer actual scientific sources when it comes to science.

www.livescience.com/50683-out-of-body-illusion.html

Did you read at least half of the thing, or did you stop reading after you felt like they were being pretentious with their words?

Well, either way, instead of posting a link after link, we're never gonna get anywhere, I can tell we're both set in what we think, so ill say what I think, and you say what you think, and we'll leave it at that.

I personally think that the "rubber hand" experiment isn't out of body experience, more just a phantom feeling that is confused with it. People get phantom feelings all the time, particularly is they lost a limb. I think that the actual scientific sources you're giving are giving the wrong label to their experiments all together.

I think that a soul is very much a real thing, even if you can't get any physical evidence of it other than words and thoughts and so on. The evidence I DO have to base it on, are the people who have done a true OBE (Out of body experience) and used it to see and hear things they shouldn't have been able to in the first place. Like hearing a conversation in the next room that was sound proofed, or recalling instances while they're being operated on.

People who could literally see their own body being operated on, and could recall every detail and so on. They don't feel it, but they see it.

I think that the brain houses the soul, but the soul itself isn't something that can be controlled or damaged like a brain can be. For example, think water in a container that never spills, only poured. The container in this case is the brain, and it only pours when you either die, or force an OBE. The container is also easy to refill as long as it's still.... Not broken or dead.

When the mind and body is dead, then I believe the soul would construct the reality in which it believes it should exist in. Hence the illusion of higher beings and different religions. You believe one thing should happen when you die down to your very soul, so your soul, being a living dream housing who you are, makes it so. If you had any guilt for not following a religion, and believe you'll end up in hell, then boom, hell.

Same goes for everything else, including reincarnation.

TL; DR
The brain is not the mind, the mind is the soul, the mind is like a living dream that exists much like the air, floating and doing as it pleases. It can't be touched, influenced, or harmed in any way.

So it's basically a religion, ok. Now I got you.

!!I can tell we're both set in what we think, so ill say what I think, and you say what you think, and we'll leave it at that.
!!

I didn't say be a condescending fuck lord, goddamn.

how am i condescending?! I'm just saying it's like religion because you believe i without there being much poting in that direction. i'm not even trying to change yuor mind or anything. I'm sory you're offended because Idon't bloody agree with you, jeez..

NO! DID YOU EVEN READ THE FIRST SENTENCE?! Just....

Alright....

I'm asking you to say what you think, so we can just go our separate ways. Nothing more, nothing less. And yes dude, what you said WAS condescending. That sentence right there basically said, "Oh, so you're a baseless heretic, gotcha."

I mean, fuck dude, I wasn't asking for your opinion on what was being said, I was just saying we should say or post what and how we think it works, and just go our separate ways.

Ill quote it again for you, and I won't fail to underline it this time hopefully "I can tell we're both set in what we think, so ill say what I think, and you say what you think, and we'll leave it at that."

Ok, fine. I'm a skeptic. I believe there is an explaination to be found in neurology for these experiences. I didn't want to start a back-and-forth, I just wanted to point out that your link wasn't really worth sharing, because in my view, it's like referring to Fox News when talking about Islam.

A bit confrontational, but that's fine, it ends the back and forth just fine I think.

Thank you, later.

You didn't get the joke.

ok. let's pretend for just a moment you are correct. let's say that we let the kids wear whatever and that it's the adults that are wrong.

It's just pervy grown men that have no self control and if they see a teen in a skimpy outfit, well, they just lose it and the lesson gets all fucked up. Wouldn't it be better if women taught instead?

But wait, what's this right here? Evidence? nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 oh gosh, it says that 74% of teachers are women. Why would they care about what little girls wear? do they have no self control?

Hold up, I'm being unfair. Maybe all these women are lesbians? they should contain themselves too....oh wait....more evidence... www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/ This pesky little article says that only 1.5% of women are gay...Now, I may not be a numbers instructor buuuuuuut...Gosh, more pesky evidence. www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of-the-us-population-do-teachers-comprise.htm 2% of the US population are teachers....

Since 74% of those are teachers that would mean that out of the 2.3 million teachers in the US that 1,702,000 lesbians occupy the school system...which is 21% of all gay people

Now, I know I'm just spitballing here but there is a chance that it's not just male teachers that don't want to look at little girls in adult clothes.

Now hold on. clothes don't matter, they're just helping kids find themselves. Right, there is no harm in that? Let kids be kids...except...I have yet ANOTHER piece of evidence that suggests that clothes DO affect kids behaviors.

Look at this! www.statisticbrain.com/school-uniform-statistics/ gosh golly willikers. Statistics from MULTIPLE CITIES AROUND THE US that suggests that school uniforms improve the performance of not only the students academic careers (mentioned, i said careers, not lifestyles) but the environment of the community around them.

But your right. 15 year olds should totally puff up their cleavage out if they want it because it helps them "find themselves"

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.

"If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school"

legitimately the only reasonable part of your argument that you have presented in this whole discussion. Seriously, keep going.

"find yourself" - Who cares, you can get that anywhere
"kids don't see it as a workplace" - Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.
"kids don't care" - their opinion is irrelevant.

Emotions and feelings do NOT MATTER in society. That's why Funnyjunk (and most people) hate the special snowflake mentality of Tumblr and Social Justice Advocates.

Seriously, keep it up!

>Who cares they can get that anywhere

Yeah, like that school, that they go to 5 days a week for 13 years of their life. Their life, and social life revolve here.

>Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.

This is why kids don't care like you do, they have to be there. And them and every other student there doesn't care either, and that builds off each other. When they're at a place they choose to be, is when they start using professionalism. There is nothing that will ever be professional, about hundreds of teenagers locked inside closed spaces for hours at a time every day. Deal. With. It.

>Their opinion is irrelevant

As is yours.

ok. let's pretend for just a moment you are correct. let's say that we let the kids wear whatever and that it's the adults that are wrong.

It's just pervy grown men that have no self control and if they see a teen in a skimpy outfit, well, they just lose it and the lesson gets all fucked up. Wouldn't it be better if women taught instead?

But wait, what's this right here? Evidence? nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 oh gosh, it says that 74% of teachers are women. Why would they care about what little girls wear? do they have no self control?

Hold up, I'm being unfair. Maybe all these women are lesbians? they should contain themselves too....oh wait....more evidence... www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/ This pesky little article says that only 1.5% of women are gay...Now, I may not be a numbers instructor buuuuuuut...Gosh, more pesky evidence. www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of-the-us-population-do-teachers-comprise.htm 2% of the US population are teachers....

Since 74% of those are teachers that would mean that out of the 2.3 million teachers in the US that 1,702,000 lesbians occupy the school system...which is 21% of all gay people

Now, I know I'm just spitballing here but there is a chance that it's not just male teachers that don't want to look at little girls in adult clothes.

Now hold on. clothes don't matter, they're just helping kids find themselves. Right, there is no harm in that? Let kids be kids...except...I have yet ANOTHER piece of evidence that suggests that clothes DO affect kids behaviors.

Look at this! www.statisticbrain.com/school-uniform-statistics/ gosh golly willikers. Statistics from MULTIPLE CITIES AROUND THE US that suggests that school uniforms improve the performance of not only the students academic careers (mentioned, i said careers, not lifestyles) but the environment of the community around them.

But your right. 15 year olds should totally puff up their cleavage out if they want it because it helps them "find themselves"

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.

Guess what, kiddo. It IS a workplace. Here's the big scary secret, it's your job right now to learn so you won't be a worthless self-entitled, skill-less brat by the time you leave.

It's mandatory training. It's not free either. People pay taxes for that shit. They're investing money into your training.

Sports aren't there for your fun either. It's teaching you discipline, giving you a physical edge, drilling conformity and teamwork practices into your brain. Spots would NOT be offered at schools if they could prove it didn't have these benefits. You probably won't understand this now, but everything that schools offer is to try to form you into something worthwhile.

"But, the education system at school is all messed up! We don't need allot of classes. We need to learn to survive in a modern society"

That is correct. Which is what I try to push in my multimedia classes (How to use the internet, new media, etc) and this is why schools are offering business math rather than calculus. Home-ec and Sex ed are also being pushed because we need to shape schools into being the best learning centers we possibly can.

Ya know how students can help shape this environment?...

by PUTTING ON SOME GODDAMN CLOTHES!!

The fantasy of the school board is not reality.

I've said it once I'll say it again. Just because you care about your workplace so much, doesn't mean they have to care, as much, as well. They won't and never will. Why? Because it's not a job to them like it is to you. When they get to their actual jobs, is when they start conforming to dress codes, and uniforms. Why? Because they get paid there, they're following interests THEY care about.

School is not a workplace to a student, it's school. Get off your high horse, and let people grow up on their own. If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school.

"If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school"

legitimately the only reasonable part of your argument that you have presented in this whole discussion. Seriously, keep going.

"find yourself" - Who cares, you can get that anywhere
"kids don't see it as a workplace" - Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.
"kids don't care" - their opinion is irrelevant.

Emotions and feelings do NOT MATTER in society. That's why Funnyjunk (and most people) hate the special snowflake mentality of Tumblr and Social Justice Advocates.

Seriously, keep it up!

>Who cares they can get that anywhere

Yeah, like that school, that they go to 5 days a week for 13 years of their life. Their life, and social life revolve here.

>Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.

This is why kids don't care like you do, they have to be there. And them and every other student there doesn't care either, and that builds off each other. When they're at a place they choose to be, is when they start using professionalism. There is nothing that will ever be professional, about hundreds of teenagers locked inside closed spaces for hours at a time every day. Deal. With. It.

>Their opinion is irrelevant

As is yours.

ok. let's pretend for just a moment you are correct. let's say that we let the kids wear whatever and that it's the adults that are wrong.

It's just pervy grown men that have no self control and if they see a teen in a skimpy outfit, well, they just lose it and the lesson gets all fucked up. Wouldn't it be better if women taught instead?

But wait, what's this right here? Evidence? nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 oh gosh, it says that 74% of teachers are women. Why would they care about what little girls wear? do they have no self control?

Hold up, I'm being unfair. Maybe all these women are lesbians? they should contain themselves too....oh wait....more evidence... www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/ This pesky little article says that only 1.5% of women are gay...Now, I may not be a numbers instructor buuuuuuut...Gosh, more pesky evidence. www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of-the-us-population-do-teachers-comprise.htm 2% of the US population are teachers....

Since 74% of those are teachers that would mean that out of the 2.3 million teachers in the US that 1,702,000 lesbians occupy the school system...which is 21% of all gay people

Now, I know I'm just spitballing here but there is a chance that it's not just male teachers that don't want to look at little girls in adult clothes.

Now hold on. clothes don't matter, they're just helping kids find themselves. Right, there is no harm in that? Let kids be kids...except...I have yet ANOTHER piece of evidence that suggests that clothes DO affect kids behaviors.

Look at this! www.statisticbrain.com/school-uniform-statistics/ gosh golly willikers. Statistics from MULTIPLE CITIES AROUND THE US that suggests that school uniforms improve the performance of not only the students academic careers (mentioned, i said careers, not lifestyles) but the environment of the community around them.

But your right. 15 year olds should totally puff up their cleavage out if they want it because it helps them "find themselves"

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.

don't give me that "find yourself" bullshit. I come to work ready to work, in every working environment I went to. From age 16 to today I did that. And if you plan to be a productive member of society you will top.

You will find yourself at your job, at your school, at your friend's house, at your house, literally anywhere you are literally constantly "finding yourself". Skimpy clothes can be worn anywhere else. just not in a school. get over yourself.

Oh what a load of fucking shit. School is not "the workplace" to the students, it's school. This is where the majority of their social life stems from, and revolves around. Nothing about it, is a work environment to them.

Just because it's a job to you, doesn't mean it's a job to them. Because it fucking isn't.

Guess what, kiddo. It IS a workplace. Here's the big scary secret, it's your job right now to learn so you won't be a worthless self-entitled, skill-less brat by the time you leave.

It's mandatory training. It's not free either. People pay taxes for that shit. They're investing money into your training.

Sports aren't there for your fun either. It's teaching you discipline, giving you a physical edge, drilling conformity and teamwork practices into your brain. Spots would NOT be offered at schools if they could prove it didn't have these benefits. You probably won't understand this now, but everything that schools offer is to try to form you into something worthwhile.

"But, the education system at school is all messed up! We don't need allot of classes. We need to learn to survive in a modern society"

That is correct. Which is what I try to push in my multimedia classes (How to use the internet, new media, etc) and this is why schools are offering business math rather than calculus. Home-ec and Sex ed are also being pushed because we need to shape schools into being the best learning centers we possibly can.

Ya know how students can help shape this environment?...

by PUTTING ON SOME GODDAMN CLOTHES!!

The fantasy of the school board is not reality.

I've said it once I'll say it again. Just because you care about your workplace so much, doesn't mean they have to care, as much, as well. They won't and never will. Why? Because it's not a job to them like it is to you. When they get to their actual jobs, is when they start conforming to dress codes, and uniforms. Why? Because they get paid there, they're following interests THEY care about.

School is not a workplace to a student, it's school. Get off your high horse, and let people grow up on their own. If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school.

"If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school"

legitimately the only reasonable part of your argument that you have presented in this whole discussion. Seriously, keep going.

"find yourself" - Who cares, you can get that anywhere
"kids don't see it as a workplace" - Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.
"kids don't care" - their opinion is irrelevant.

Emotions and feelings do NOT MATTER in society. That's why Funnyjunk (and most people) hate the special snowflake mentality of Tumblr and Social Justice Advocates.

Seriously, keep it up!

>Who cares they can get that anywhere

Yeah, like that school, that they go to 5 days a week for 13 years of their life. Their life, and social life revolve here.

>Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.

This is why kids don't care like you do, they have to be there. And them and every other student there doesn't care either, and that builds off each other. When they're at a place they choose to be, is when they start using professionalism. There is nothing that will ever be professional, about hundreds of teenagers locked inside closed spaces for hours at a time every day. Deal. With. It.

>Their opinion is irrelevant

As is yours.

ok. let's pretend for just a moment you are correct. let's say that we let the kids wear whatever and that it's the adults that are wrong.

It's just pervy grown men that have no self control and if they see a teen in a skimpy outfit, well, they just lose it and the lesson gets all fucked up. Wouldn't it be better if women taught instead?

But wait, what's this right here? Evidence? nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 oh gosh, it says that 74% of teachers are women. Why would they care about what little girls wear? do they have no self control?

Hold up, I'm being unfair. Maybe all these women are lesbians? they should contain themselves too....oh wait....more evidence... www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/ This pesky little article says that only 1.5% of women are gay...Now, I may not be a numbers instructor buuuuuuut...Gosh, more pesky evidence. www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of-the-us-population-do-teachers-comprise.htm 2% of the US population are teachers....

Since 74% of those are teachers that would mean that out of the 2.3 million teachers in the US that 1,702,000 lesbians occupy the school system...which is 21% of all gay people

Now, I know I'm just spitballing here but there is a chance that it's not just male teachers that don't want to look at little girls in adult clothes.

Now hold on. clothes don't matter, they're just helping kids find themselves. Right, there is no harm in that? Let kids be kids...except...I have yet ANOTHER piece of evidence that suggests that clothes DO affect kids behaviors.

Look at this! www.statisticbrain.com/school-uniform-statistics/ gosh golly willikers. Statistics from MULTIPLE CITIES AROUND THE US that suggests that school uniforms improve the performance of not only the students academic careers (mentioned, i said careers, not lifestyles) but the environment of the community around them.

But your right. 15 year olds should totally puff up their cleavage out if they want it because it helps them "find themselves"

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.

That makes sense. That is one of the main reasons I prefer hentai.

Haven't you heard? 110% of all men will rape at least 10 people in their lifetime, and some time in their afterlife. You have no idea how many un-cited articles say this; it must be true!

Well I wouldn't berate someone for dressing that way. And I wouldn't berate anyone who looks either.

I would berate someone who says they shouldn't be allowed to dress that way just because they don't approve. And I would berate someone for blaming others for looking as a crime or something.

Don't be so black and white dude.

Social norms aren't always right. They're often born of superstition, blindly following tradition, and just not thinking whether these norms are right or wrong. Social norms have been a huge contributor of injustice over the course of human history. Examples being racism, sexism, religious extremism, discouragement of free thought, not questioning elders or leaders, and many other wrongdoings. Social norms are not that great, they discourage free thought more than anything else.

>You not approving doesn't mean shit

I said this didn't I? So we're in agreement?

I don't know where you got the idea that I was going to save the world from itself, but one problem at a time I guess. I'm just a philosopher, and philosophy is figuring out the right way to think about things.

"Superficial nonsense"? Going this insane over how someone dresses is superficial nonsense. How am I the one being superficially nonsensical?

t-shirt, pants, shoes. is this so hard? wear clothes. normal clothes.

there is an outfit for every environment. Cleavage and ass cracks are not suitable for an educational environment.

this isn't difficult.

An educational environment is one of the only environments a young person will ever find themselves in. If you see what they use as normal clothes as "skimpy" then that's more of a problem for you then it is anyone else. Just have some god damn self control it's not fucking hard.

don't give me that "find yourself" bullshit. I come to work ready to work, in every working environment I went to. From age 16 to today I did that. And if you plan to be a productive member of society you will top.

You will find yourself at your job, at your school, at your friend's house, at your house, literally anywhere you are literally constantly "finding yourself". Skimpy clothes can be worn anywhere else. just not in a school. get over yourself.

Oh what a load of fucking shit. School is not "the workplace" to the students, it's school. This is where the majority of their social life stems from, and revolves around. Nothing about it, is a work environment to them.

Just because it's a job to you, doesn't mean it's a job to them. Because it fucking isn't.

Guess what, kiddo. It IS a workplace. Here's the big scary secret, it's your job right now to learn so you won't be a worthless self-entitled, skill-less brat by the time you leave.

It's mandatory training. It's not free either. People pay taxes for that shit. They're investing money into your training.

Sports aren't there for your fun either. It's teaching you discipline, giving you a physical edge, drilling conformity and teamwork practices into your brain. Spots would NOT be offered at schools if they could prove it didn't have these benefits. You probably won't understand this now, but everything that schools offer is to try to form you into something worthwhile.

"But, the education system at school is all messed up! We don't need allot of classes. We need to learn to survive in a modern society"

That is correct. Which is what I try to push in my multimedia classes (How to use the internet, new media, etc) and this is why schools are offering business math rather than calculus. Home-ec and Sex ed are also being pushed because we need to shape schools into being the best learning centers we possibly can.

Ya know how students can help shape this environment?...

by PUTTING ON SOME GODDAMN CLOTHES!!

The fantasy of the school board is not reality.

I've said it once I'll say it again. Just because you care about your workplace so much, doesn't mean they have to care, as much, as well. They won't and never will. Why? Because it's not a job to them like it is to you. When they get to their actual jobs, is when they start conforming to dress codes, and uniforms. Why? Because they get paid there, they're following interests THEY care about.

School is not a workplace to a student, it's school. Get off your high horse, and let people grow up on their own. If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school.

"If it's within reason as far as society goes, the same applies to school"

legitimately the only reasonable part of your argument that you have presented in this whole discussion. Seriously, keep going.

"find yourself" - Who cares, you can get that anywhere
"kids don't see it as a workplace" - Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.
"kids don't care" - their opinion is irrelevant.

Emotions and feelings do NOT MATTER in society. That's why Funnyjunk (and most people) hate the special snowflake mentality of Tumblr and Social Justice Advocates.

Seriously, keep it up!

>Who cares they can get that anywhere

Yeah, like that school, that they go to 5 days a week for 13 years of their life. Their life, and social life revolve here.

>Who cares. You have to do it anyway, it is the law.

This is why kids don't care like you do, they have to be there. And them and every other student there doesn't care either, and that builds off each other. When they're at a place they choose to be, is when they start using professionalism. There is nothing that will ever be professional, about hundreds of teenagers locked inside closed spaces for hours at a time every day. Deal. With. It.

>Their opinion is irrelevant

As is yours.

ok. let's pretend for just a moment you are correct. let's say that we let the kids wear whatever and that it's the adults that are wrong.

It's just pervy grown men that have no self control and if they see a teen in a skimpy outfit, well, they just lose it and the lesson gets all fucked up. Wouldn't it be better if women taught instead?

But wait, what's this right here? Evidence? nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=28 oh gosh, it says that 74% of teachers are women. Why would they care about what little girls wear? do they have no self control?

Hold up, I'm being unfair. Maybe all these women are lesbians? they should contain themselves too....oh wait....more evidence... www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/07/15/what-percentage-of-the-u-s-population-is-gay-lesbian-or-bisexual/ This pesky little article says that only 1.5% of women are gay...Now, I may not be a numbers instructor buuuuuuut...Gosh, more pesky evidence. www.wisegeek.com/what-percent-of-the-us-population-do-teachers-comprise.htm 2% of the US population are teachers....

Since 74% of those are teachers that would mean that out of the 2.3 million teachers in the US that 1,702,000 lesbians occupy the school system...which is 21% of all gay people

Now, I know I'm just spitballing here but there is a chance that it's not just male teachers that don't want to look at little girls in adult clothes.

Now hold on. clothes don't matter, they're just helping kids find themselves. Right, there is no harm in that? Let kids be kids...except...I have yet ANOTHER piece of evidence that suggests that clothes DO affect kids behaviors.

Look at this! www.statisticbrain.com/school-uniform-statistics/ gosh golly willikers. Statistics from MULTIPLE CITIES AROUND THE US that suggests that school uniforms improve the performance of not only the students academic careers (mentioned, i said careers, not lifestyles) but the environment of the community around them.

But your right. 15 year olds should totally puff up their cleavage out if they want it because it helps them "find themselves"

If your identity can be removed simply by having you conform to a dress code, it's hardly an identity worth having.
"Do you just really not want people to have any liberty at all"
Having people held to a decent standard of dress isn't exactly removing all of their liberty. It's not forcing them to take classes so they can be the person the State desires of them, it's not forcing them to interact only with those the State deems worthy, it's not any other tyrannical bullshit. It's just wearing appropriate fucking clothing.
And, you know what? As soon as they get out of school, each day, they can wear what they desire. It's not prohibiting that.

Your entire argument here is literally just s slippery slope. You have no numbers, you have no data, you have no facts. And warlordstuart? He has all of those things. I'm not sure if you're shitposting or are just literally retarded.

you kept telling me to "control yourself" implying its filthy adults who are staring at teens. its not about that...at all. Teachers don't want to see it at all. Ya know how there are sometimes ad-blockers to block ads because we just don't want to see them? Something like that.

Plus, consider my original point anyway. Teachers are not given any sort of defense anymore when it comes to sexual harassment and often times teachers are fired because the school doesn't want to come under pressure from the community defending them, even if they are completely innocent (ESPECIALLY if they are male). having a dress code that doesn't allow for any sexual interpretation is a layer of protection. It protects the teacher and helps create a more stable environment. If they kept firing teachers and replacing them the curriculum gets all jank.

And no, you can express yourself just fine in t-shirts, pants, sweaters, hoodies, shorts, whatever. There are literally tons of other clothes to wear. favorite band, favorite color, anime, comic, etc. wear that. if you wanna wear the cuttoffs do it on your own time. No one is forcing you to wear school standards outside of school.