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latest user's comments
|#37 - Anyone else can't take Ren seriously? He looks a few steps fro… [+] (21 new replies)||12/27/2015 on Force Awakens||+9|
#43 - mattdoggy (12/27/2015) [-]
At first i didn't like him but then i could see what his character was about.
The dark side of the force is about using your passion and anger to fuel your strength. The problem with the First Order is that the chain of Sith that taught the proper way to use the dark side was broken. They still know that their power comes from powerful emotions, but they don't know how to properly harness and control them. Count Dooku for example was a dark force user who was pretty much always composed and very precise and in control and he was able to fend off multiple Jedi at once. This new kid is so raw and unrefined that he was able to lose to a girl who had just picked up a light saber about 5 minutes ago.
#90 - tomthehippie (12/27/2015) [-]
Also, it seems like they are pulling some of the EU. For instance, Leia's line was always the less powerful between her and Luke, and in this movie she is shown with no real force power, so it is completely believable that not only is Ren not that powerful, but not that well trained. Meanwhile (at least in the EU) it is made clear that Luke has INSANE force sensitivity, in fact he is more sensitive to the force than even Yoda. If Ray is Luke's daughter, then she could have inherited those traits.
If that is the case, then it totally makes sense that she could bet Ren despite being untrained. it also explains why he was punching his wound, a darkside user can draw power from pain.
#54 - Dagoron (12/27/2015) [-]
So a couple things on Ren's behalf for the final fight with Rey:
First off, HE WAS SHOT IN THE GUT. Seriously can't stress this enough, the guy was shot in the gut by a fucking BOWCASTER And then he trails them fast enough to catch up with them. And then he fights with Fin, who, though outclassed, still holds against him for a while. And then he fights against Rey. And at the start of that fight, he had the upper hand. But the whole fight was on a timer for him. It was all down hill for him. Meanwhile Rey could only grow more certain and more comfortable with the blade, especially given Kylo's own wavering fortitude.
That aside, for much of the fight, and this is important: He wasn't trying to kill her. He wanted her to surrender, to side with him. As with Vader against Luke before, he wanted to bring Rey into the fold. Overpower her, perhaps, but not kill. Unfortunately, he didn't have the luxury of dominating her that way. The longer he fought, the weaker he became. Because of the aforementioned whole in his gut.
Next, Kylo isn't exactly the most stable person. He's clearly powerful in the force, but his training is incomplete, and his training in the dark-side doubly so. Snoke even comments as much. Vader was a lean, mean, Cold Fury fueled murder machine. The same with most of the other Sith, or even Dark Jedi/Acolytes we see, such as Maul, Assaj, or the Inquisitors. In fact, Kylo quite reminds me of Savage, who similarly could be bested when his rage got the better of him.
Combined with above, I think that Kylo has raw talent, but it's unfulfilled. Much like Rey. I don't think he's ever encountered anyone as strong in the force as he is, save Snoke and Luke. I think that Rey is genuinely the first real fight he's had to put up with in a long while.
Another thing to consider is Rey's own hidden potential.
Jedi training is at its core, physical and mental training. Physical training used as a meditative aid, which then feeds back into the enhanced ability to focus increasing the ability to connect to the Force and from there enhancing physical abilities. It creates a cycle, which then forms the bases of the high end light saber dueling skills we see from Jedi in their(or even way past) their prime. Luke was considered half-trained when he rushed to confront Vader. But when he returned, he was told his training was complete. Because the whole time, it's not simple Force tricks that make the Jedi. It's the maturity. The ability to focus past physical and mental pain. The consistency. The patience.
And this is how Rey's curve was so abrupt. All her life she has been no stranger to physically and mentally demanding tasks. Her patience and powers of concentration continually being tested. Such that when she first connects to the Force, with the Saber, with Rey's interrogation, it doesn't take much for the dam to break wide open.
#64 - sircool (12/27/2015) [-]
wow, ok. you're wrong on quite a few points here.
1. You even pointed out that Kylo was kicking her ass at the start, only to have it magically turn around in the last few seconds because Rey got her second wind. Her second wind that came when she some how become calm mid-fight. Even saber fighting styles require time and effort to train as. So she suddenly gets super-powerful mid fight for no reason.
2. You say Kylo wanted her alive, at what point in the entire movie did they want her alive? Seriously? They NEVER SAID THAT OR EVEN HINTED AT THAT. Dude wanted her dead, wanted them all dead.
3. Pretty fucking sure being on sand-no-where planet doesn't give you force control training in any way. people strong in the force don't magically get super fucking good at shit without training. It means they have the ability to reach these things, but won't if not trained.
#186 - Dagoron (12/27/2015) [-]
1. Rey's "second wind" was, in fact, her awakening the Force inside her. Thus the title of the movie and the event Snoke was telling Ren and Hux. Do you know what the Force does? It guides people. Rey's skill and intuition and power fucktupled when she unlocked her Force potential. The Force guided her actions through the fight. There are loads of times that has happened in the series primarily in Rebels and TCW.
And you obviously missed where I pointed out Rey has extensive personal training in martial weapons. Yes lightsabers require tremendous skill for a non-Force user to wield, but Rey is an incredibly POWERFUL Force user with combat training.
Ren is the same way. He's an incredibly powerful Force user with combat training, but his training is explicitly incomplete. He never finished with Luke and Snoke says at the end, flat out, that Ren's skill is lacking and required refinement. Since Luke left, Ren has never fought against anyone that could challenge him. He's an attack dog, not a Sith. What happens the first time in years that he comes against an equally powerful opponent? He gets his teeth kicked in.
And again, that wasn't just due to skill on either party's part. Ren was so fucked up it's not funny. He had a whole where his left kidney should be, was dealing with significant blood loss, dealing with psychological issues drawn from killing his goddamn father, and he explicitly wasn't trying to kill her.
Which brings me to the next point.
2. It's here that I realize you didn't actually watch the movie or pay attention. The ENTIRE INTERROGATION SCENE had Kylo saying "Join me, join us, be my friend, it'll be grand!"
And then during their confrontation in the forest he was basically saying, "If you won't come with me, I'll make you."
He was not trying to kill her.
3. Yes. Yes they fucking do. The Force can and has guided people's actions. In combat and in menial tasks.
You don't need excessive Force training to use the Force. Sure the training refines your abilities and allows you to expand what you can do, but it's more than possible to use it via just raw power. Which is what Ren is doing.
Did you not read the second half of my post. She'd already had a perfectly viable analogue to basic Jedi training via her hardships on Jakku.
So before you talk next time, how about you learn what the fuck your debating.
#194 - sircool (12/27/2015) [-]
It "awakened" during some shit that shouldn't even impact her in that way.
The only bit where the force guides some one in Rebels is when they have literal fucking vision dreams. In clone wars, it's either ghosts or fucking GOING INTO A PYRAMID OF THE SHIT. But NEVER had it been used to directly impact some one's actions like you're suggesting.
Saber techniques are like martial arts styles but with a sword. You don't instantly know all the moves because of the what you're insisting on making the star wars equivalent of "nanomachines".
and i'm sure the planet with likely less than a thousand people and no grand beasts to speak of provided oh so much combat training. The only settlement we say was the size of a trailer park. Unless it has some spots that are super force focused like dagobah or shit, then simple combat techniques aren't fucking enough.
The force isn't like x-men tier powers. Kids don't just wake up one day and suddenly "Oh shit, I can hear minds and everything in my room is floating, what's going on?" It's a latent power that you need to focus to have any effect every time you use it. You can have it for half your life and if some chuckle fuck doesn't tell you, you could never know because the ONLY shit that you might notice that's weird is strange dreams, but dreaming is already weird so you can shrug it off.
when was the last time in star wars did some one start doing crazy shit with the force and go "I have no idea how i'm doing this?" because they didn't have that ability UNTIL THAT VERY MOMENT?
but, if what you say is true, then star wars is developing super sayian syndrome where "THE LEGENDARY POWERFUL ONE" is becoming more and more common until it's not special anymore.
2. maybe both of us need to rewatch it because I remember constant threats and taunts by kylo to get rey to break to give the dets on the resistance base and shit.
#78 - mattdoggy (12/27/2015) [-]
1. Again note that Kylo was bleeding out which made him grow weaker with each swing and probably restricted his movement making his swings straight forward and slow. She just has to survive for a little bit until he's pretty much useless. Also she magically can just learn anything "because the force" which was a kind of garbage excuse. They did this when she was able to fly and fix a space ship and learn it in under 30 seconds "just because" which is supposed to be because of the force. It doesn't make any real sense but that's the card they're playing.
2. At one point he said something along the lines of "join me" or "i can show you the ways of the force" when their blades are crossed. That could be reasonably shown as him trying to recruit her. It's also a tradition of the dark side and the Sith to take on an apprentice and to try and kill of your master. While the first order isn't necessarily the Sith, they probably behave the same. Also he probably realized they were related at some point, i think technically they are cousins i guess.
3. Again whoever wrote and directed this thing just said "lol they gone get super power for no reason". It's a giant middle finger to the audience but it helps pass the plot along again in an almost lazy way. Again i cite how she was able to do things like learn how to fly a space ship in a few minutes and hear people screaming across space and hear dead Jedi say things. It's again something that other Jedi train for a lifetime to achieve but because they don't have time for it they are going to make it happen in 30 minutes
#83 - sircool (12/27/2015) [-]
1. doesn't matter. The moment the fight turned, the moment he started to lose, was when she instantly got second wind-pure calm mind bs mid-fight.
2. I forget the combat banter from him, but the "I can show you the ways of the force" could've been "I can show you the true power of the force." as a threat. But kylo isn't that bright of a bulb, he wouldn't get an apprentice or ally this young and reckless.
3. Force is literally becoming "space magic" or "Nanomachines" on par of explanation.
#138 - rumsmuggler (12/27/2015) [-]
1. The fight got turned around in a scene, where she was basically one step away from getting burned to ashes by collapsing planet surface. The combination of "finding" the force and the survival instinct may have been stronger in that moment, in which case we can assume that the power and strenght was an adrenaline rush.
2. Don't forget, that they don't respect the rule of 2, which is implied by existence of Knights of Ren. Kylo is just master of Knights of Ren, which means, that he already has some other fighters as his subordinates. Kylo can even be disposable member of this group. If he dies, or fails, there is already a dude that is trained to replace him and best him. Also, it was never implied that Kylo is the only Snokes apprentice. They may try to make an elite group of force sensitive cutthroats loyal to their cause more then to re-establish sith empire.
#141 - sircool (12/27/2015) [-]
1. that's how the scene should've ended though, when she's about to lose but is saved by planet split. hypes up the training she needs to do for next movie and need to learn more. Now it's just "i've already beaten him once, what's the fucking point?"
2. Knights of Ren could just be super trained normal peps. There were jedi hunting trained groups prior. and since rebels is canon, with a whole inquisition of sith under vader's command, rule of 2 is out the window for most part.
#147 - rumsmuggler (12/27/2015) [-]
1. In which case Kylo also thinkfs "That bitch almost killed me, I must get better" which can start a cycle of pretty badass CGI fights in next movies, which I guess is the only thing it depends now, when they dumped almost everything as a canon. We can only sit and wait for next episodes and see how it goes.
2. Whole point 2 was based on the "I can show you the ways of force". Which I personally understand as an invitation to Knights Of Ren more than making her his personal apprentice.
#151 - sircool (12/27/2015) [-]
2. lots of fan theory going on for knights of ren hoping for revan. I can get behind luke being rey's dad cause the saber being passed down, sand planet, etc. but beyond that just saying "oh it -could- be like that" isn't enough for an argument. it needs blunt hints or many of them, not just one sentence that could be taken one way.
#154 - rumsmuggler (12/27/2015) [-]
1. I never implied anything in that matter. Sorry If I phrased it badly, not native english speaker. What I wanted to say is, that in each clash they will have, they will get stronger, because both of them take the other one as a huge threat, so they will get stronger and stronger (not rocky training montage shit).
#41 - vactrox (12/27/2015) [-]
Well I noticed during the last few seconds of the fight he took a lightsaber to the face, so I'm hoping that if they make up some bullshit excuse on why he survived a planet exploding, he'll come back with a mutilated, open wound on his face.
Like his pretty boy-ness was a way to show he could still be redeemed' (as obvious bait and switch for that one scene with Han), but the next time we see him it clear he's scarred/fucked up both inside and out
|#36 - Disney killed it by abandoning the plot and cutting its budget… [+] (1 new reply)||12/27/2015 on Force Awakens||+3|
|#35 - The movie was just a bad remix of the previous movies. It seem… [+] (4 new replies)||12/27/2015 on Force Awakens||0|
#181 - xexion (12/27/2015) [-]
>I am your father, check.
When did this happen? Vader's reveal was emotional, unexpected and intense. Kylo Ren's was revealed very early on and wasn't any of those things.
>Cantina scene, check.
Smuggler walks into a bar, everyone
>Jedi mind tricks, check.
Don't forget there were lightsaber fights too!
>Mandatory sand planet, check.
Don't forget about the mandatory forested planet, or the common ocean planet.
>Alien x-wing pilots in the same costume, check.
>rescue scene, check
God forbid any movie have a portion where some of the party gets captured.
While I didn't really enjoy the Starkiller, the Empire and its descendants whether in canon or in legends, really do fucking love their WMDs. Y'know like the first and second Death Stars.
#175 - xexion (12/27/2015) [-]
I'm not going to say that VII wasn't a huge homage to IV, but this selective shit pisses me off:
>BB-8 never fled to Jakku, it was always there
>Rey never met Lars San Tekka - he was killed before she was even introduced, and obviously didn't tell her jack shit
>Rey's hometown wasn't burnt, a trading post she worked out of came under attack
>Han and Chewie never helped Rey escape Jakku
>Btw you entirely forgot about Finn
>Also good job skipping about 60% of the middle of the movie
>If Han is Rey's mentor what did he teach her?
>There is no direct evidence pointing to Rey being a Skywalker.
>It was revealed already who Kylo Ren is.
>Noone has said Snoke is a sith.
>"and she has a major role in the outcome" Well that's specific
>How could I forget Luke going to Dagobah in A New Hope?
#45 - anon (12/27/2015) [-]
So what I gather from your reply is, in future star wars movies you would like:
nobody to be related in any way (I mean come on, it wasn't even an "I am your father" moment, they just happen to be father and son, which both of them knew, and they revealed to us pretty early),
no Death Stars (that one's reasonable),
Jedi aren't allowed to use any of the powers we've seen them use before,
no planet may be made of sand (and I assume they can't be snow as well because of Hoth, or jungle because of Endor),
none of the x-wing pilots are allowed to be alien,
and nobody can get rescued.
Boy, that sure would make a great Star Wars movie.....
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