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Rank #5354 on Comments
Level 257 Comments: Contaminated Win
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- Look. they think that the reduction of firearms is gonna reduc…
Gun Control in a Nutshell
"they think that the reduction of firearms is gonna reduce firearm crimes".
See this is exactly what I'm talking about: that's simply not their argument. Their argument is that they would rather have the crime not happening to begin with through a healthy society, instead of having to stop the crime while it's happening with e.g. a gun. Their ideal is a society is one where guns aren't nescessary - not just one where guns don't exist.
If anybody seriously think that removing the guns would magically remove the underlying problem of why those crimes happen to begin with, then yeah you can tell them that they're only treating the symptoms and not the disease itself.
It's important to have an honest debate with people you disagree with instead of circlejerking and fetishizing the "opponent's" argument to the point where it no longer has any relation to what they're actually saying.
And before anybody accuses me of being a god damn librul: this is the exact same mistake the left makes when talking about Trump and the people who support him - it's a problem for all discourse at the moment.
I hope you realize that saying "I wish the world didn't have to have guns
" isn't an argument too. if they're proposing the banning of guns will lead to a world in which guns aren't necessary then their argument implies that guns are the reason for the crimes happening correct?
I'm sorry, but again this is not their argument - it's their end-goal, that's why it's a "wish".
Their argument would generally be to not have the crime happen in the first place through a healthy society. That other mechanisms will prevent the crime from taking place, like education, steady income, less substance abuse, a sense of community, rehabilitation, etc. - that's essentially their argument.
Listen, because people who disagree with you aren't (necessarily) idiots. Now again you can counterargue that USA isn't in a place right now where those mechanisms are able to take that preventative role yet, so guns are still a viable solution to a certain extend (which I think is a reasonable position to take). Then you can discuss how to improve the penal system, educational system, etc. and work towards a solution through a dialogue with people you would otherwise disagree to begin with because you just didn't properly read what they had to say.
I know it's a bit hyperbolic, but I really don't care about guns in America - you guys can do whatever you want for all I care. The real problem as far as I see it - and I'm beginning to see it here in Denmark as well, is that people seem to be less and less able to have a basic discussion with people who don't automatically say "yeah I agree with you".
"Their argument would generally be to not have the crime happen in the first place through a healthy society. That other mechanisms will prevent the crime from taking place, like education, steady income, less substance abuse, a sense of community, rehabilitation, etc. - that's essentially their argument." that's still not a stated argument.
Let me clarify this. in an argument you must
A: take a position of either positive or negative
B: have a stated purpose
C: Propose things that would either change or enhance a feature, simply stating that something is bad or stating that something could be or should be better is not an argument it's just an opinion.
what I want is for you to post maybe even in quotations what their solution is or what their intent for the law is.
And If you can't let me make a rebuttal to what you said. If society was capable of self-sustain-ment through education and steady income then it would've already happened even IF guns were present. We can take a gander at Israel which has low crime rates and MANDATORY gun possession but also some of the highest rates of education and graduations from higher centers of learning present throughout the modern world. I doubt that guns are the catalyst of which the banning of which will bring salvation to us all.
For the love of god... Read what I have to say: I'm not making and argument for banning guns - that's for the Americans who support it to do, I'm just saying that their argument isn't "ban guns and crime disappear". I'm not even saying that "banning of [guns] will bring salvation to us all" - in fact that's the opposite what I'm saying - and that the far majority of people are saying.
I'm arguing that you should be able to listen when having a discussion with someone, and this point is repeatedly going over your head - which is why you're continuing to not adress anything I have to say. Your entire post has nothing to do with any of my previous posts, which is exactly the essential point I'm trying to make.
So demand all the quotations you want for a discussion I've already said I have no part in. If you're not gonna bother listening to a single thing I've had to say in 3 posts, then I doubt you're gonna start doing it now.
You didn't change what you said over the last 3 posts though. I understand you have no strong opinion or whatever. all I'm saying is how can you say that that's not what they're thinking but you can't even formulate their goal into words? it gives me grounds to believe you don't actually understand them and just wanted to go against the grain
I did, I boiled down a general sentiment from multiple countries each with their own take on the issue into a couple of hypothetical ways to approach the problem, the general goal and purpose of their stance - if that's not formulating their position, I don't know what it is you want and I certainly don't get why you would doubt me for suggestion that they're not just being stupid.
I'm talking broad terms, if you want specific solutions from wherever it is you live in the US, then it's up to you to have that discussion with those people, because I can't be that specific for you - all I'm hoping is that you will actually have a discussion and listen to them instead of seeing them merely as an opposition to be proven wrong.
Because you've been attaching statements to me that you've just made up, mostly they've just not been applicable to what I've said and a few times even contrary to it - e.g. the insistance on this being solely a question of gun control/just banning guns will make the crime disappear. Your posts have red herring written all over them.
I do have my own opinion on the issue, but that has no relevance for the discussion.
Sorry I did have some attatchments due to being raised in America the whole anti-gun thing around here is more or so the same as the rest of the "anti" movements in america. mostly just a group of sheltered people saying that if something wasn't present it would remove its threat
The biggest parties here in america that are anti-gun are usually Women ran pro-family organizations. except for the Brady organization which is doing it in memorium of James Brady who was the assistant paralyzed in an assassination on Ronald. I assumed your "general sentiment of multiple countries" was actually "general sentiment of anti-gun American groups" due to that being the Assumed talking point of the comic above
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