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latest user's comments
#130
 That really isn't true. You have no idea how long it takes the…
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
0
#57
 Well you say that, but a lot of zero's easily get confusing to…
[+]
(4 replies)
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
0
#117

summers
(04/29/2017)
[]
There IS a chapter in the kids math book that would be going over estimating, what I can see happening is that the kid didn't pay attention in class and just answered the question based on what they thought it would be (Is this the right answer if you subtracted?)
But, during that chapter the questions all say to "use estimation" or "estimate your answer". The teacher should have corrected the question, and should not have acted like a douchebag like a certain set of school teachers I know.
#61

godisbert
(04/29/2017)
[]
The point is estimation is not even useful at that point. Most kids can do 103  28 > 100 25 = 75 as quick as they'd do 10328 > 100  30 = 70. If you want them to estimate, give them a problem they can't solve in as few steps as they'd use to estimate.
#153

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
When you first introduce a math concept, it's rarely useful. Because the useful stuff is hard and complicated, and you just want to get the idea of how it's done into their heads first.
And Jesus, find a child with handwriting like that and I can almost guarantee you that they haven't even considered that five digit numbers exist, much less know how to round or subtract them.
#130

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
That really isn't true. You have no idea how long it takes the average kid to subtract 138. It is painful to the point were teaching them estimation is an actual useful skill. Talking from my own experience here, so it might just be because all my students were retards in the extreme.
#54
 Well, this might just be me, but calling me arguing for a poin…
[+]
(12 replies)
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
+1
#68

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
My point about your first point is that your point is so pointless that I didn't see the point in providing a counter point. Get my point?
It is still an estimate, one the teacher showed a 'counter calculation' for. For all we know the student is great with numbers so incorrectly 'estimating' is nigh impossible for him/her and is therefore downgraded for it.
If the teacher had provided that response without downgrading, I wouldn't be phased, but the child was effectively punished for doing math in a math class...
Never before have I seen such a moronic question on a mathematics test (excluding the first pic) and for you to be defending the semantics for such poorly worded questions is infact disappointing.
#149

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
This is the shit people don't get about math class.
You're not being graded on the answer. You're being graded on your understanding of the method. He wasn't marked down for getting the wrong answer, he was getting marked down for doing it wrong.
And yeah, rounding to find out if the person is close enough to the right answer is super useful. I'm studying engineering and I do it all the time to make sure I haven't messed up a calculation somewhere.
#154

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
LOL. I hope I don't use anything you make then champ.
#155

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
It's especially common in architecture, so I hope you like sleeping outside.
#156

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You are a fucking idiot.
#159

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
And you have way too much of a problem with a simple, common, practical trick to check your work.
I mean, if you were doing three or four pages of working for one question, you're not going to check if your answer is correct to three decimal places when you're looking for an error.
#160

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I have a problem with idiots.
#161

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Then enlighten me, what did I say that you think is silly?
#162

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Estimation in architecture was an absolute doozey mate.
As someone who works in construction I find you claim to be quite retarded, but then again, architects botch up their plans from 'estimating' way more often than they bloody well should.
Best you go check those decimal places buddy coz you ain't goin anywhere in that field with such an attitude.
#163

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You're a senior architect on a skyscraper job. One of your subordinates asks you to check if his estimation for how far the top will swing in high winds is correct, his answer being 12m. Do you waste a week checking it to first principles and simulating it, or do you do the simplified backofthepage equation, get 14m, and call it a day?
Spoilers, every time it's the back of the page equation. There's more to architecture than where the walls go, mate.
#164

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Nice save, but why use an example that is almost completely outside of human control? I thought we were talking about equations which deal in absolutes?
Still I will admit to being impressed by that save.
#165

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I appreciate that you can see the point to my example. As for equations that deal in absolutes, an annoyingly large number of them do, but can only be approximated. Consider the monster in the picture
Which is for how fast fluid moves in a straight pipe, if you're interested
, an exact answer for that exists but since the equation is set up with the answer you want on both sides in that way you have to make a couple of guesses and hone in on something that's close enough.
This shit happens all the time in engineering. That's why engineers tend to be so useless at actually physically doing things, and why people think we have a hard job.
#53
 That be true, but if you just it would make little to no sense…
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
0
#50
 Your reason for this would be? (Genuinely curious)
[+]
(14 replies)
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
+1
#52

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
The fact you even tried making a case for your first point is plain disappointing.
Your second point is exactly the same as mine so yea, can't argue anything there.
Then there is your third point. You are automatically downgrading a student based purely on the assumption that the child spent any amount of time working out the math and in defense of a poorly worded question IN MATHEMATICS no less.
For a child to correctly estimate (oh hey, now I'm assuming) something and be downgraded for it coz they didn't go about it in the fucktarded way this 'teacher' demanded of them is grounds for dismissal imho. Why not 30  100 instead? Coz it's stupid...
When students find painfully obvious flaws in a test and are downgraded for it seriously rustles my fucking jimmies, even more so when others try to defend the 'system'.
#54

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
Well, this might just be me, but calling me arguing for a point disappointing, isn't an argument in itself. That would be like calling me racist and privileged, not really gonna sway my opinion on anything.
It doesn't matter if the child spend any amount of time on the question. From the explanation it seems clear that there hasn't been made an estimation, but much rather a calculation. Estimating something is a freaking useful tool that a lot of kids seem oblivious to. It narrows down computing time of a lot of stuff. Just round to nearest ten and work from there. No need for writing anything down, and something you can use whenever you might go shopping or the like.
I will say that the question could easily have been worded better, but it also could have been worded much worse and still be acceptable. After all it does give the answer in advance, so you are not doing this for any kind of calculation.
> Why not 30  100 instead?
That makes no sense to me. It is no were in the same ballpark. One is a tool that you can use, while the other is an error resulting in 70.
#68

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
My point about your first point is that your point is so pointless that I didn't see the point in providing a counter point. Get my point?
It is still an estimate, one the teacher showed a 'counter calculation' for. For all we know the student is great with numbers so incorrectly 'estimating' is nigh impossible for him/her and is therefore downgraded for it.
If the teacher had provided that response without downgrading, I wouldn't be phased, but the child was effectively punished for doing math in a math class...
Never before have I seen such a moronic question on a mathematics test (excluding the first pic) and for you to be defending the semantics for such poorly worded questions is infact disappointing.
#149

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
This is the shit people don't get about math class.
You're not being graded on the answer. You're being graded on your understanding of the method. He wasn't marked down for getting the wrong answer, he was getting marked down for doing it wrong.
And yeah, rounding to find out if the person is close enough to the right answer is super useful. I'm studying engineering and I do it all the time to make sure I haven't messed up a calculation somewhere.
#154

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
LOL. I hope I don't use anything you make then champ.
#155

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
It's especially common in architecture, so I hope you like sleeping outside.
#156

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You are a fucking idiot.
#159

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
And you have way too much of a problem with a simple, common, practical trick to check your work.
I mean, if you were doing three or four pages of working for one question, you're not going to check if your answer is correct to three decimal places when you're looking for an error.
#160

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I have a problem with idiots.
#161

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Then enlighten me, what did I say that you think is silly?
#162

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Estimation in architecture was an absolute doozey mate.
As someone who works in construction I find you claim to be quite retarded, but then again, architects botch up their plans from 'estimating' way more often than they bloody well should.
Best you go check those decimal places buddy coz you ain't goin anywhere in that field with such an attitude.
#163

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You're a senior architect on a skyscraper job. One of your subordinates asks you to check if his estimation for how far the top will swing in high winds is correct, his answer being 12m. Do you waste a week checking it to first principles and simulating it, or do you do the simplified backofthepage equation, get 14m, and call it a day?
Spoilers, every time it's the back of the page equation. There's more to architecture than where the walls go, mate.
#164

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Nice save, but why use an example that is almost completely outside of human control? I thought we were talking about equations which deal in absolutes?
Still I will admit to being impressed by that save.
#165

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I appreciate that you can see the point to my example. As for equations that deal in absolutes, an annoyingly large number of them do, but can only be approximated. Consider the monster in the picture
Which is for how fast fluid moves in a straight pipe, if you're interested
, an exact answer for that exists but since the equation is set up with the answer you want on both sides in that way you have to make a couple of guesses and hone in on something that's close enough.
This shit happens all the time in engineering. That's why engineers tend to be so useless at actually physically doing things, and why people think we have a hard job.
#43
 I see your point, however the question has just been shortened…
04/29/2017 on
This is what children learn...
3
#42
 Well that i can see the problem with, and i will certainly agr…
04/28/2017 on
This is what children learn...
0
#33
 I actually work with kids from 1st grade to 3rd grade (Danish …
[+]
(35 replies)
04/28/2017 on
This is what children learn...
+2
#207

thathomestuckguy
(04/29/2017)
[]
That question is still really poorly phrased, and the end result still doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
#180

sumdud
(04/29/2017)
[]
3rd question is bad and teaches kids to do things wrong! First of all, estimation isn't a hard thing, you can learn it as an adult, secondly that practice leads to increasing rounding errors and this test showcases it perfectly. 10328=75, one significant digit estimation is 80, whereas "correct" answer was 70. Those are just numbers, we have no idea how accurate or precise estimation should be.
This kind of teaching infuriates me as math major! Don't teach kids to do thing wrong.
That kind of estimating could be useful, but only when expressed clearly, like it's done here
learnzillion.com/lesson_plans/6263roundinrea...
There, they clearly state the situation, and mention "about" which gives student opportunity to decide how precise his calculations should be and whether it's better to over or underestimate, that's actually something worth teaching.
#132

bargh
(04/29/2017)
[]
but even the estimate of number 3 would have been 75 because no person would go from 103 to 100 instead of 105 unless it's specified.
#151

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Rounding to the nearest ten is way easier in this case because it's basically 10  3 rather than 10.5  3 or 105  30.
#89

clarkxonehundred
(04/29/2017)
[]
Agreed 100%. I end up defending this style of math every single time it comes up, sometimes I get upvoted, sometimes I get downvoted. It may seem silly but it's teaching tricks to do math quickly and do it in your head. It may be simpler and easier starting out to do it the traditional way but teaching to think like this by breaking apart the problem and making it into smaller and easier pieces. I'll definitely concede that they could've chosen better examples but if you take anyone who can quickly do math in their head they almost always do it by tearing the problem down someway.
16 x 35 in your head seems way harder than immediately changing the problem to 8 x 70.
38 + 117 as opposed to 38 + 110 then adding 7
It's little things that at the end of the day make you much better at breaking down and understanding problems in your head. I'm not gonna defend incompetent teachers or problems like the reading one that says 75 isn't a reasonable answer, but teaching estimation and teaching how to make problems easier by breaking them into 10's is a good thing. Chances are they were working specifically on how to make 10's by tearing down problems. so the 8 + 5 one the teacher is absolutely right and would've also accepted 5+5=10 then add 3.
TL : DR = This style of math may seem stupid but it's good in the long run to learn these concepts make math easier
#66

Deavas
(04/29/2017)
[]
The second one does not state the second amendment, it's a modernized liberal definition and desire for the amendment to be. The original second amendment only states that citizens can own guns for hunting (i don't think this is explicitly mentioned because it was just the thing people did back then, probably didn't even think about it) , protection from govt tyranny (the British wanted to disarm colonists), and if necessary, serve in a state militia (from before a standing army was established). Anything else is an alteration or bastardization
Tl;dr, libs propogating what the 2nd amendment actually says
#65

neoexdeath
(04/29/2017)
[]
The second one is based on the Supreme Court's interpretation of the second amendment. Its technically accurate from a legal standpoint.
#56

godisbert
(04/29/2017)
[]
If they want the kids to estimate, start with situations where estimation is reasonable (i.e. 43785  23884, estimate to 20000), not a simple subtraction that can be done very quickly.
#57

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
Well you say that, but a lot of zero's easily get confusing to kids, and the questions isn't suppose to show that they are able to subtract massive numbers, just that they know what estimation is. So using a low number they don't need to think too hard about the math, but can instead focus on what is actually important in the question.
#117

summers
(04/29/2017)
[]
There IS a chapter in the kids math book that would be going over estimating, what I can see happening is that the kid didn't pay attention in class and just answered the question based on what they thought it would be (Is this the right answer if you subtracted?)
But, during that chapter the questions all say to "use estimation" or "estimate your answer". The teacher should have corrected the question, and should not have acted like a douchebag like a certain set of school teachers I know.
#61

godisbert
(04/29/2017)
[]
The point is estimation is not even useful at that point. Most kids can do 103  28 > 100 25 = 75 as quick as they'd do 10328 > 100  30 = 70. If you want them to estimate, give them a problem they can't solve in as few steps as they'd use to estimate.
#153

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
When you first introduce a math concept, it's rarely useful. Because the useful stuff is hard and complicated, and you just want to get the idea of how it's done into their heads first.
And Jesus, find a child with handwriting like that and I can almost guarantee you that they haven't even considered that five digit numbers exist, much less know how to round or subtract them.
#130

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
That really isn't true. You have no idea how long it takes the average kid to subtract 138. It is painful to the point were teaching them estimation is an actual useful skill. Talking from my own experience here, so it might just be because all my students were retards in the extreme.
#51

riayl
(04/29/2017)
[]
>Not already messing with the shortcuts and mental tricks since you were a child
Common Core is an attempt to teach these shortcuts and mental tricks, but the problem is that these things can't be taught you can lead a kid to a paper but you can't make him think.
#53

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
That be true, but if you just it would make little to no sense to hide these tricks. Instead they should be shown and if a kid isn't able to learn them, then they probably another teaching method. (Basing this on the 4 types of learning. See, Hear, Do and Touch.
Simplified
) Meaning that every kid should be able to learn math, might just not be the right way you are teaching them.
#49

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
If I found out someone like you was to teach my hypothetical child, I would take my child out from that school if you were not replaced within a satisfactory time limit.
#50

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
Your reason for this would be? (Genuinely curious)
#52

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
The fact you even tried making a case for your first point is plain disappointing.
Your second point is exactly the same as mine so yea, can't argue anything there.
Then there is your third point. You are automatically downgrading a student based purely on the assumption that the child spent any amount of time working out the math and in defense of a poorly worded question IN MATHEMATICS no less.
For a child to correctly estimate (oh hey, now I'm assuming) something and be downgraded for it coz they didn't go about it in the fucktarded way this 'teacher' demanded of them is grounds for dismissal imho. Why not 30  100 instead? Coz it's stupid...
When students find painfully obvious flaws in a test and are downgraded for it seriously rustles my fucking jimmies, even more so when others try to defend the 'system'.
#54

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
Well, this might just be me, but calling me arguing for a point disappointing, isn't an argument in itself. That would be like calling me racist and privileged, not really gonna sway my opinion on anything.
It doesn't matter if the child spend any amount of time on the question. From the explanation it seems clear that there hasn't been made an estimation, but much rather a calculation. Estimating something is a freaking useful tool that a lot of kids seem oblivious to. It narrows down computing time of a lot of stuff. Just round to nearest ten and work from there. No need for writing anything down, and something you can use whenever you might go shopping or the like.
I will say that the question could easily have been worded better, but it also could have been worded much worse and still be acceptable. After all it does give the answer in advance, so you are not doing this for any kind of calculation.
> Why not 30  100 instead?
That makes no sense to me. It is no were in the same ballpark. One is a tool that you can use, while the other is an error resulting in 70.
#68

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
My point about your first point is that your point is so pointless that I didn't see the point in providing a counter point. Get my point?
It is still an estimate, one the teacher showed a 'counter calculation' for. For all we know the student is great with numbers so incorrectly 'estimating' is nigh impossible for him/her and is therefore downgraded for it.
If the teacher had provided that response without downgrading, I wouldn't be phased, but the child was effectively punished for doing math in a math class...
Never before have I seen such a moronic question on a mathematics test (excluding the first pic) and for you to be defending the semantics for such poorly worded questions is infact disappointing.
#149

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
This is the shit people don't get about math class.
You're not being graded on the answer. You're being graded on your understanding of the method. He wasn't marked down for getting the wrong answer, he was getting marked down for doing it wrong.
And yeah, rounding to find out if the person is close enough to the right answer is super useful. I'm studying engineering and I do it all the time to make sure I haven't messed up a calculation somewhere.
#154

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
LOL. I hope I don't use anything you make then champ.
#155

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
It's especially common in architecture, so I hope you like sleeping outside.
#156

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You are a fucking idiot.
#159

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
And you have way too much of a problem with a simple, common, practical trick to check your work.
I mean, if you were doing three or four pages of working for one question, you're not going to check if your answer is correct to three decimal places when you're looking for an error.
#160

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I have a problem with idiots.
#161

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Then enlighten me, what did I say that you think is silly?
#162

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Estimation in architecture was an absolute doozey mate.
As someone who works in construction I find you claim to be quite retarded, but then again, architects botch up their plans from 'estimating' way more often than they bloody well should.
Best you go check those decimal places buddy coz you ain't goin anywhere in that field with such an attitude.
#163

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
You're a senior architect on a skyscraper job. One of your subordinates asks you to check if his estimation for how far the top will swing in high winds is correct, his answer being 12m. Do you waste a week checking it to first principles and simulating it, or do you do the simplified backofthepage equation, get 14m, and call it a day?
Spoilers, every time it's the back of the page equation. There's more to architecture than where the walls go, mate.
#164

eljimbo
(04/29/2017)
[]
Nice save, but why use an example that is almost completely outside of human control? I thought we were talking about equations which deal in absolutes?
Still I will admit to being impressed by that save.
#165

ninjaroo
(04/29/2017)
[]
I appreciate that you can see the point to my example. As for equations that deal in absolutes, an annoyingly large number of them do, but can only be approximated. Consider the monster in the picture
Which is for how fast fluid moves in a straight pipe, if you're interested
, an exact answer for that exists but since the equation is set up with the answer you want on both sides in that way you have to make a couple of guesses and hone in on something that's close enough.
This shit happens all the time in engineering. That's why engineers tend to be so useless at actually physically doing things, and why people think we have a hard job.
#41

demigodofmadness
(04/28/2017)
[]
The problem is the wording in the first one. "How to make 10 when adding 8+5" that phrase makes no sense. If they said, "Add 8+5 using the 'Add to 10 rule' and show your work" it would've been OK.
And the 2nd picture just lied to the children about the contents of the second amendment.
And sure, the class may have been working with estimation, but the question says "Is this a reasonable answer" and the exact answer is definitely a reasonable answer.
#43

ntns
(04/29/2017)
[]
I see your point, however the question has just been shortened down as in saying: "Add together 15 and 6" Instead of saying "Use addition rule on the numbers 15 and 6."
Young kids don't understand that it is actual basic rules of math, the few who do usually doesn't have a problem with adding up anyway.
The second picture has been explained to me and i will be more than happy to give you that one.
However the last one isn't about answering with an exact, it is clearly about the explanation. You want the kid to show that they have understood estimation. Likewise you don't teach a kid about chess in math for them to have fun, you teach it because it is an easy introduction into coordinate system, so you might even start teaching them some of the basics of advanced maths.
#36

sandmansniper
(04/28/2017)
[]
The problem with the second picture is that our 2nd amendment states that we have the right to bear arms. Any arms. Without limit. And that this right shall not be infringed upon. However the picture says that it can only be certain weapons and it state that it includes the background process. While there is a background check, it is not part of the amendment.
#42

ntns
(04/28/2017)
[]
Well that i can see the problem with, and i will certainly agree with that.
#194
 Nothing really, but it is one of her character traits.
04/25/2017 on
Wrong Door [ME:Andromeda]
0
#156
 Oh i actually didn't know that. Oh well. You live and learn.
04/24/2017 on
Wrong Door [ME:Andromeda]
0
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