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#96 - edgecutter (12/27/2014) [-]
The highest amount of energy the 5.56mm can produce, according to Wikipedia would be 1767 Joules. This would be a projectile velocity of 940 m/s or 3100 fps.
The highest amount of energy the 7.62mm can produce, according to Wikipedia would be 3,506 Joules. This would be a projectile velocity of 790 m/s or 2580 fps.
Although there are a bunch of other variables at play here, the following trend is quite common when transitioning from light weight projectiles to heavy weight projectiles:
A heavy projectile will have a relatively low velocity but a high amount of energy, while a light projectile will have a high velocity but a low amount of energy.
How does this relate to range and accuracy?
The heavier projectile will keep its energy for a longer period of time due to its higher relative weight. This also means that environmental factors (like wind, air density, etc.) will have less of an effect on the flight path of the projectile.
The lighter projectile will have a higher velocity, but it will lose its energy much faster in comparison to the heavy projectile. This means it will have a shorter range than the heavy projectile. Therefore, following the same logic as before, it will also have worse accuracy.
Now, the reason why high-tech armies are jumping on the 5.56mm bandwagon is because 5.56mm bullets are far more lighter to carry around than 7.62mm bullets. Having to carry less weight around means the soldiers have more stamina, which in turn means that a world of tactical options open up. Simply put, the rewards of using 7.62mm do not weigh up against its drawbacks in most situations a regular soldier will find himself in.
That said, it is not to say that 7.62mm is obsolete. It is just a very situational ammo type.
(Footnote: look at the chart and notice how the 7.62mm bullet eventually has a higher velocity than its 5.56mm counterpart.)
#134 - jdrinfantry (12/27/2014) [-]
It's true and all. But if you have ever been to the range with a H&K G3 you would know how much the bullet drops (due to the weight of the bullet I guess). The 5.56 atleast in my opinion doesn't have the same problem with bullet drop. It's far less at a range of 500 meters for instance you don't have to aim several targets above. It does have a problem with getting off course at that range though. Due to wind and problem slowing down as you said yourself.
#136 - edgecutter (12/27/2014) [-]
I'm not a ballistics expert, nor am I a firearms expert. The most I have shot is a .22LR Olympic Competition rifle on a 100m range when I was 13. I'm not pulling these physics out of my ass, however. I'm only applying what ballistics I know from airsoft to actual firearms and disregarding several airsoft-specific factors (like backspin, which is of course non-existent in non-spherical projectiles).
That said, I can only say for a fact that 5.56mm is superiour in shorter ranges and 7.62mm is superiour in longer ranges. I can not comment on effective range as that is an entire debate on how you define effective range, and I've had that debate countless of times with my fellow airsoft techies. It's safe to say, none of us ever agreed on anything in the end.
I can only assume the shooter can compensate for bullet drop through experience as bullet drop should be a fairly consistent factor.
What you can not compensate for is the most irregular factor in shooting, and that is grouping or bullet spread. As you have confirmed, the 5.56mm suffers more from bullet spread than the 7.62mm does.
This would lead me to assume that the 5.56mm is an easier to use ammunition type as it does not suffer from bullet drop within its intended range, meaning the shooter will not have to account for bullet drop as much. While the user of the 7.62mm bullet will have to be more experienced to consistently know how to account for bullet drop at various ranges.
I hypothesize that the 7.62mm will be a superiour ammunition type in the use of an experienced user and the 5.56mm will be a superiour ammunition type in the use of a less experienced user.
As the 7.62mm would be usable in all the ranges the 5.56mm can achieve, and beyond that, should the shooter know how to consistently compensate for bullet drop.
(The chart is that of a scientific airsoft report. The Airsoft Trajectory Project)
#137 - jdrinfantry (12/27/2014) [-]
I'm an experienced user if I have to say so myself. The 7.62 is a mighty fun caliber, but the 5.56 is just so much easier to hit something with. 50 yards, with a 7.62 you have to aim considerably lower than the target you're aiming at. The 5.56 is almost inconsiderable if you set the iron sight range to 200 you wont even notice the trajectory before going 300 +.
I mentioned in an earlier comment that I feel like the 7.62 becomes a mortar at long range.
#138 - edgecutter (12/27/2014) [-]
I can't say anything about this, as you have more experience than I do (which isn't difficult as I have no practical experience with real-firearms shooting at all). So I'll believe that the bullet spread of a 5.56mm is a negligible in comparison to the 7.62mm.
All I can say at this point is that the 7.62mm has longer killing range (more energy over a longer distance), more penetration power over a larger distance,longer maximum range and a smaller theoretical grouping.
I'm not picking sides here. I'm not saying either of the bullet types is better. I was simply stating (what I assume are) facts which should be considered in the debate between the two bullet types.
I would like to bring up an (admittedly) unrelated factor. Which, as mentioned before in this post, penetration power. I can only assume that penetration power is not only useful in penetrating body armour, but is also useful in shooting targets behind certain types of cover. I will not say more than this as I lack experience in the matter.
#145 - jdrinfantry (12/28/2014) [-]
Whether we're talking 5.56 or 7.62 the only way to protect yourself is with a 1 meter sand / dirt cover. Penetration power is almost the same whatever caliber we're talking. Except 9mm of course.
I have personal experience with the 12.7mm being extremely good at destroying cover though. It is often referred to as the 50. cal.
other than that I don't believe in body armour, since it doesn't exist. Most vests are considered fragmentation proof and only bullet resistant. Often they inflict more damage to the person than they protect them.
#90 - jdrinfantry (12/27/2014) [-]
I knew someone was going to doubt it.
But you take me for a fool if you think I wasn't prepared with some facts.
Effective firing range of the M16 (not my favourite rifle but it'll do) 800 meters.
Let's compare it to the FAL which has an effective range of 400 - 600 meters.
Double checked it for you there.
#109 - IrishSasquatch (12/27/2014) [-]
The 5.56 round is normally 55 or 62 grains XM193 and XM855 Ball respectively While it is very fast, it is also extremely light. Meaning it loses energy much quicker than its ~147 grain big brother, the 7.62x51. The heavier 5.56 round, the XM855, still drops 267 inches at 800 meters. And drifts 125 inches. it drops less because it retains more energy. Likewise, a 147 grain bullet, while traveling a few hundred FPS slower, retains more energy than that, and is less affected by the wind.
Oh, it also has the energy of a low powered .22 Long Rifle round at that point. Would you call the .22LR an "effective" round for combat?
With iron sights, the effective range for any centerfire rifle will be around 300-400 meters. Our eyes have limits. Add optics, the story changes. Even with optics, the 5.56 isn't much to sneeze at past 400 yards. Hell, they even brought out the old M14s cause troops in Afghanistan were getting outranged by guys with freakin' Lee-Enfields:
"A 2009 study conducted by the U.S. Army claimed that half of the engagements in Afghanistan occurred from beyond 300 meters (330 yd). America’s 5.56x45 mm NATO service rifles are ineffective at these ranges; this has prompted the reissue of thousands of M14s."
I'm not trying to be a dick here, but what you're saying just isn't true. I've been an avid shooter for years now, and extensively shot both rounds. And if you walked into a gun shop and said you wanted to hunt at 600+ yards with a 5.56 rifle, they'd chuckle and hand you a rifle whose caliber starts with "3" or "7." Guarantee it.
#135 - jdrinfantry (12/27/2014) [-]
The M14 has been modified into a sniper rifle in most cases and are used to engage targets very far away. Usually it's used as a backup for a sniper team, that already uses a bolt action rifle.
We do the same thing with our danish sniper teams. They use the SAKO TRG-42 and a 7.62 M417.
The Lee Enfield can engage targets on a very long range. I mean in some cases even 800+ meters. When I say that the 5.56 can engage targets that far away, it can. You wouldn't use it to hunt, because at that range it will begin to swirl but not enough to matter in combat, and the velocity it is travelling at that range is more than enough to wound someone. Which is the only goal you have in combat. We're not there to kill, becaue that only takes out 1 target, but wounding someone takes out 3.
Your average carbine M4, C8 whatever you use, is meant for a range of around 300 meters. Can you engage targets further away than 300 meters? Of course you can. I've engaged targets at 600 meters with a C7 diemaco rifle with iron sights, hitting the targets almost every single time.
if you shoot at G3 at 600 meters it's more like using a mortar than a rifle, you have to aim so very much above the target. Unless you're using a long ranged scope you will have serious trouble hitting your target.
#143 - IrishSasquatch (12/27/2014) [-]
I am confident in the fact that it is common knowledge that .308, and essentially any .30 caliber rifle With the possible exception of the AK series is much more effective at long range. When I say effective, I'm talking about killing potential.
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