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|#19 - It is a much better choice to pick science over religion any d…||07/06/2012 on Higgs Boson||0|
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#27 - AnonymousDonor (07/06/2012) [-]
sigh i dont know why i bother dealing with so many butthurt atheists on this site..... all the above responses just proved my point - if you guys knew anything about religion you'd know that it goes hand in hand with science
im a physicist for christs sake and still deeply religious; the two are in no way exclusive
#32 - N. Korean citizen (07/06/2012) [-]
...Religion and science don't go hand in hand. That doesn't mean you can't be a religious scientist, however.
#44 - slyve (07/06/2012) [-]
For Example, some people i know believe that there is a god, but also in evolution and the big bang, they just believe it happened because something bigger had a hand in it, and this being would be god, whatever that may be.
There are many things that still need answering, i wouldn't be surprised if our planet is just a small petri dish for some hyper advanced alien culture, in which case, they would fit the definition of a God.
Anyways, i personally am an atheist because i think the origins of our universe CAN be explained scientifically, we're just still very far away from doing so, but we're on the right track.
Nevertheless, it will take many generations for us to have everything figured out.
And... just be honest to yourself, sometimes it can be frustrating to know, that we know almost nothing at all, given the amount of knowledge the universe holds, so it'S understandable why religions are still so popular, they offer answers, not questions, and whether you believe that stuff or not, answers tend to be more comforting than questions. And some people just prefer that over thinking about everything to figure it out.
Only problem with this is, there are some people, on both sides, that just feel the need to ridicule the other "faction" for their beliefs or their lack of beliefs - which CANNOT produce anything productive at all, just a frickin shitstorm of epic proportions.
And just to get this clear, atheism isn't a belief, it's the LACK of belief in any kind of deity. (just like NOT collecting stamps isn't a hobby)
Also, wall of text. Deal with it!
#54 - N. Korean citizen (07/06/2012) [-]
I personally think that the two dont have to be black and white as long as you can logically justify it. However I also dont think they are "hand in hand". I am no physicist, however I am studying to be one, and it has not hindered my faith, just broadened my veiw on both sides.
#48 - gammajk (07/06/2012) [-]
Also, ran out of characters, but one more thing -
"Just because a person is Christian doesn't meant they believe in the bible or the Christian Theology word for word."
Word for word? Maybe not now, but back in the day, it did. Christianity has evolved into some sort of slack-ass religion where it's basically, as Neil Degrasse Tyson put it, "a ever-receding pocket of ignorance" in the sense where they pick the questions we don't know the answer to and make things up so they can feel comfortable with it - I will never understand how people are content with that but it's called the argument from ignorance.
And the defintion now has pretty much become "Believe in God, Jesus and Heaven and you're a christian" instead of what it used to be.
Other than the things I mentioned, I agree with you (I see your wall of text and raise you two)
#151 - AnonymousDonor (07/06/2012) [-]
holy shit lmao its actually hilarious every time i mention that all the atheists out there dont understand religion, i get thousands of age-old "arguments" that everybody's heard a thousand times like "im scientific theres no proof" and "i search for the answers not just listen to fairy tales" but not a single one of you self-proclaimed scientists stops to think what any GOOD scientist would - he is neither right nor wrong until we can go through and logically or experimentally disprove his argument; indeed, when i claim you dont really understand religion not a one of you thought to ask "well if its not what I think it is what is it then?" no instead you just spew absolutist propaganda... men of science indeed
for example, i love science; i love the infinite search of truth and i too love being able to prove to someone that they're wrong. but i'm also not retarded enough to think that there's only one answer to a question. being born into a religious family, i questioned the existence of God every day [still do] and there still remains no proof for or against it. sigh science isn't even in the same field as religion - one experimentally tries to explain the beauteous wonders of the physical universe while the other promotes life and love and the reason for living
#161 - gammajk (07/06/2012) [-]
Look. Believing in god is literally the exact same thing as believing in fairies, bigfoot and Spiderman. Higgs boson? Nope, that's actually Batman.
You don't need evidence against something to not believe it when it has LITERALLY NOTHING supporting it in the first place. That's how it fucking works and how it always will, now stop being a delusional little fuck and accept it.
""well if its not what I think it is what is it then?""
I don't know. I am perfectly content not knowing it, although I certainly curious as to the answers to these questions. HOWEVER, there is absolutely no reason to make up things in a pathetic attempt to answer them. If I don't know what something is or what causes it, I ACTUALLY TRY TO FIND OUT. I don't just make shit up and call it a day.
"while the other promotes life and love and the reason for living"
Except for how that's blatantly wrong when you look at what religion actually does. You really think people believing in god and the afterlife is a good thing? No. It demotivates people to actually do something in their one shot at life they have and yet they waste it away in pursuit of delusions of heaven. I only have one life on this planet, why the FUCK would I waste it for something nobody can even demonstrate actually exists?
#162 - AnonymousDonor (07/07/2012) [-]
lmao i didnt think i said anything offensive but you sure seem pretty butthurt based on that comment - lemme see if i can figure this out for you
youre still living in your little delusional world of thinking that religion is just a fairy tale parents tell their children so they'll behave, using the afterlife as a carrot on a stick
which i cant really blame you for because honestly so many "religious" people believe the same thing, which is quite sad
true religion is the culmination of all things, virtues, and beliefs in existence. a truly religious person who cares enough about their faith to explore it in conjunction with the physical world around them will see that the universe itself is God - surely you concede the universe exists? after all, it was the universe that created itself out of the big bang and gave life to this planet, and it is only the universe that holds all the real properties of the God in religion
but try as i might to convince you, i'm sure you're going to respond with the same toddler-covering-their-ears absolutism, right? because how on earth could two things like science and religion that appear <by idiot humans> to be fundamentally opposed EVER have anything in common, right? i mean it's not like you ever see anything like that in nature; it's not like photons and electrons are simultaneously particles and waves, right? that's just impossible!
and if your past posts are any indication, i'm sure any response i get will have plenty of phrases in all caps as you are trying to "shout" out the same moot arguments that weve already covered..... but feel free to do so anyway :)
#164 - gammajk (07/07/2012) [-]
"after all, it was the universe that created itself out of the big bang and gave life to this planet, and it is only the universe that holds all the real properties of the God in religion "
And there we go, there's your point. You could have just gotten to this instead of spewing out bullshit from your mouth.
No, you fucking retard, that's stupid. Religious gods are conscious beings, who rule over the universe, lording their power over everybody because they can. The gods of religion are cruel, merciless, petty assholes.
The universe is not a conscious being. The universe does not care about life. The universe has no emotions. The universe does not think about us, the universe can't think about anything. Yeah, the universe is what gave us all life. Do I think I know where the universe came from? No. Am I going to make up a bunch of bullshit to try to cover that? No. You can live in your delusional little world all you want, but worshipping the universe isn't going to make it pat your back when you stick a fork in an outlet. If you think the universe is god, then you might as well just call yourself an atheist.
The things you are describing are not religion. They are not God, they are not any sort of supreme being. You can call religions "a culmination of all things, virtues and beliefs in existence" all you want, yet that doesn't make the idea of a god that sends people to burn for eternity if they don't tell him he's awesome any more plausible.
#167 - slyve (07/07/2012) [-]
I'm confused. Your argument there.. "a retarded baby horse that tries to stand up for the first time" .. that suggest that, if you can't do anything perfectly the first time, don't even try. I'm pretty sure you couldn't walk either after you were born, it took you time to learn it, didn't it?
This metaphor is actually pretty good when it comes to religion and science. From what i read in your Argument with gammajk, i know that you are quite fond of both, religion and science, so this argument of mine doesn't really apply to you, but most religious people, especially older ones, are kind of like the "retarded baby horse" - they can't figure it out, so they don't even try and just accept the easy answer and don't even think about how improbable it sounds (and you have to admit, the whole creationism thingy or the storys the bible tells do sound pretty dumb)
That is the thing about Religion as a whole that bugs me the most. Everything that would suggest that a Religious Person might be wrong about their god, is an offense to them, they don't even think about the possibility that they might actually be wrong. It's always the evil atheists that try to force their truth upon them. They completely ignore that forcing beliefs upon others was a really big thing in the Christian church not too long ago, and if you didn't want to belief them, they had the authority to kill you for it.
But if it's the other way around, they are just trying to help others to "see the light" or to "save them" - which is pretty much the definition of Hypocrisy.
#168 - slyve (07/07/2012) [-]
damn character limit...
Another thing is (and this is based on my personal experience with religious people) most of them are pretty arrogant in their ignorance.
Let me explain this a little, i don't call it ignorance because they have a different view of things than me, i call it ignorance because they completely dismiss the possibility of me being right and acted like their answer to this question was true as if it was an established fact and i tried to tell them 1 + 1 equals 3.
About the Arrogance thingy... well, the people i had to deal with pretty much looked down on me just for not sharing their viewpoint. I guess because they "knew" they were right and i was wrong. So they treated me like i was simply too dumb to understand it and this was enough for them to justify dismissing everything i say as just the rambling of an idiot, like they didn't even need to bring up arguments against me, or arguments in support of their belief, because after all... they're right anyway. No Discussion needed.
Again, this is based on my personal experience, i can't say how many religious people are actually like this, but given the extend of this whole argument, in real life and on the internet, i would guess it's more than just a few.
I know there are also atheists that act like this, so maybe you can relate why such a behavior is so damn annoying.
#173 - AnonymousDonor (07/07/2012) [-]
lol exactly!! im not quite sure why you decided to tell me this since you directed it mostly at narrow-minded people [both religious and, at the end, atheists too]
but yeah i totally agree that's what i've been doing my whole life, because i knew the only reason i could ever accept such a controversial belief in a religion i would have to be able to defend it against all possibilities - so every chance i have i question it, always looking for the true answer.....believe it or not, i LOVE criticism and if i could find just one atheist of the opposing standpoint who could actually give me a sensible argument which i haven't already heard or thought of myself, i would be more than happy to test whether or not it could be correct because i'm always seeking new possibilities
unfortunately, every time i dare to say anything quasi-religious, i get the same answers you've already read [and literally exactly what you detailed in your comment] about nobody even listening to you because they already know you're wrong - i mean look at this whole shpiel with gammajk:
like fundamentalist christians who do nothing but read a book and assume its the only right answer period for no reason whatsoever, so too do atheists like him jump on the popular bandwagon of "oh its science and science disproves religion" and they are too narrowminded to explore or even see the possibility of the fact that the two can be completely compatible with each other; and i can live with that - other poeple can think what they want and I won't get all butthurt that they don't drop everything and listen to me... but it's irritating as shit when they do the exact same thing and try to force their a-religious science on me. talk about hypocrisy
oh and the retarded baby horse metaphor was not to say not to try - i'm pretty hopeful that someday they [all narrow minds] may be able to actually think critically, but for now they can only do so with the "braces" of their trust in some absolutist belief
#182 - slyve (07/08/2012) [-]
I wouldn't call it narrow minded if a person thinks science and religion aren't compatible - they just had a different experience with it. Personally i don't think there will ever be some kind of compromise between the two. Because, let's face it (and i do not mean this to be offensive) science discovers something new every day, like the higgs boson. But when it comes to Religion, it's pretty much the same stuff every time, for the last 2000 years, they dwell on the past, instead of going forward.
There are some Christian scientists out there, I've seen some stuff they published, even scientific theories. The problem with those theories is, they are mostly pretty stupid. I don't remember the name of this one theory i read about, but it had something to do with plate tectonics and how the plates where responsible for shooting water into space, thus forming the moon.
This whole argument got quite out of hand if you ask me. I like being an atheist, and I'm sure Christians like being Christians, otherwise they wouldn't be Christians. So what's the real problem we face with this? if everyone is happy with his point of view, why can't we get along, even though we have different points of view? If debating this only leads to conflict, why are we doing it the whole time?
Personally, i always try to be civil about it, understand the other point of view, and respond accordingly - unfortunately that is not always the case, most people (and here comes the real problem, the one problem that causes most conflicts we encounter anywhere) People like being dicks. Huge, massive fucking Cunts. Weather they are Christians, Atheists, Muslims or whatever else, they like the Conflict, because it gives them a chance to feel superior to other people. This is in no way an Atheist Problem, nor is it a Christian problem... It's a human problem, our race thrives on conflicts, if we don't fight, we get bored and start ripping each other apart.
I still hope we get over this, some day.
#183 - AnonymousDonor (07/08/2012) [-]
and thats depressing about the christian scientists lmao i personally would hope they have thought of better stuff than that [i mean most of the seemingly brilliant professors of physics and chemistry at my college are very christian] and that the good ones just keep religion to themselves yano? honestly in the world of science you kind of have to unless you want to start a shitstorm like this chain right here <pic related>
lastly, good sir, before i nod to you out of respect for your ability to disagree with one's beliefs and actually stay sensible [a feat thats beyond most funnyjunkers], i will bring up one point on your first paragraph - while unfortunately the church and the seats of organized religion do seem to stay rather stagnant and unchanging [although i think they're starting to realize they'll have to conform if they want to survive as a societal influence] i believe and am pretty sure that true religion, just like true science, is indeed a neverending search for the truth, at least insomuch as our present time today because, if there is some last thing to learn in either intellectual or spiritual progress, we are far from ever even seeing the horizon :/
#171 - AnonymousDonor (07/07/2012) [-]
quite the other way around. i believe i was simply voicing my opinion, after which you relentlessly berated me for something you knew absolutely nothing about
see that's the difference between us; i don't give a shit what you think about religion and science and all because i know if you care enough about it then there's absolutely nothing i can do to change your mind, yet you think that with a few poorly chosen arguments you can automatically make me "see the light" from your eyes and undo twenty years of pro-religious mental buildup [which is impossible in a religious fanatic alone, not to mention myself, who bases all his religious thought in science and logic, if you can fathom that]
maybe someday you'll learn - hence the retarded baby horse - but for now you're just another person trying to force your opinion about absolutist scientific atheism onto someone else, which puts you on a similar level with the westboro baptist freaks in that regard
by the way good luck on pursuing that post-college scientific career; you're definitely going to need it - based on your "ability" to argue and think critically, i imagine you're going into microbiology or maybe geology? anthropology perhaps?
#176 - AnonymousDonor (07/07/2012) [-]
well without any competent counter arguments what else am i to think? and normally i wouldnt be such a dick to someone who cannot think of a good counterargument except you think you're so high and mighty as well, still calling me names and spewing nothing logical whatsoever
so i have decided that i am more or less justified in calling you whatever names i find most demeaning, and for a "scientist" such as yourself, i can think of nothing more intellectually abusive than ascribing you to a future of dusting off rocks or plating agar, seeing as how it would take an act of god and congress for you to make it in a real science like chemistry or physics :)
#177 - gammajk (07/07/2012) [-]
Again, completely fucking delusional. I have given you my arguments and you ignore them because you can't respond. I tell you why you're a fucking idiot and you insist I'm not making any sense.
You can insult me all you like, I know that none of it is even NEAR any degree of accuracy, while you have proven yourself to be a complete moron that is doomed to a future of working at mcdonalds.
So, go fuck yourself, please commit suicide, have a shitty day, fucktard.
#181 - AnonymousDonor (07/08/2012) [-]
ahh... but of course you would say that
its just as well im quite tired of this "conversation"
as well as how ridiculously much you care about this hahah i notice you've taken the time to thumb down all of my comments just because you didnt like me - most mature XD
#46 - gammajk (07/06/2012) [-]
There's I few things you said I have problems with.
"some people i know believe that there is a god, but also in evolution and the big bang, they just believe it happened because something bigger had a hand in it, and this being would be god, whatever that may be."
Sure, but that isn't Christianity. That in no way correlates to the tales of Jesus and the Bible.
" i wouldn't be surprised if our planet is just a small petri dish for some hyper advanced alien culture, in which case, they would fit the definition of a God. "
Subjective, I think it's unlikely this is the case and if it were I would call them an advanced alien culture, not God.
"sometimes it can be frustrating to know, that we know almost nothing at all, given the amount of knowledge the universe holds, so it'S understandable why religions are still so popular, they offer answers, not questions, and whether you believe that stuff or not, answers tend to be more comforting than questions. And some people just prefer that over thinking about everything to figure it out. "
Religion does absolutely nothing to truthfully answer these questions, it's just speculation, and bad speculation at that. If someone is fine with a delusion, then that's OK - they're just delusional. I don't know about you, but as I'm getting into the scientific field after I finish college, I care a lot about the answer yet making things up does nothing. I can speculate and then attempt to make a test to demonstrate it, but just guessing randomly doesn't help. I would be willing to dedicate my life to legitimately solving today's questions for the people of tomorrow.
That's my two cents, I'm also an atheist, more of an anti-theist because I just see believing in a god or an afterlife as harmful because you have less motivation and incentive to actually do something with the one life you know you have, and to actually live an honourable life so that the next generations will remember you as a good person.
#50 - slyve (07/06/2012) [-]
i can relate to that, i don't care much about religions and what they try to do to some people either (although that is just a small part of religious people in my experience)
And of course you're right, that alien thingy is pure speculation, and more of a joke anyway, because it is so damn unlikely.
the actual idea i was trying to get across was that there is no sense in arguing about beliefs, because most of the time it will only lead to conflict, most of the people that belief in god, will continue to do so, no matter how much evidence you put forward.
but that shouldn't stop us in our pursuit of knowledge, and if someone who beliefs in god starts to think about his beliefs and begins to questions them, we can help them understand what's really going on by showing it to them, as long as they are willing to listen. you can't force knowledge onto people if they don't even want to know what you're telling them.
On a more personal note, i wanna thank you for pursuing a scientific career, i am in no way a scientist myself, i just find it incredibly interesting, but most of it is really giving me a hard time when i try to understand it. Which is why i ahve a deep respect for people who pursue knowledge for the sake of everyone else.
So, Thank you, and good luck on your way!
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