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|#10 - "Recently Kirsten Powers repeated on Fox News Channel the… [+] (39 new replies)||04/10/2014 on Wall St.Journal Declares...||+34|
#28 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
This is just a question, but why do young male doctors work 500 hours more than young female doctors?
#38 - timetolift (04/10/2014) [-]
because it has been proven many times that men are more likely to:
women value job security, proximity to home and shorter hours over higher pay.
In other words:
Consultant walks into room with male and female junior doctor and says "I need one of you to do an extra shift on saturday."
Woman is statistically far more likely to say "Oh I'm sorry but I can't because..." whilst the man is more likely to say "Yeah sure I can do that."
#17 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
First of this is a PHENOMENAL quote thank you for this, I agree with the message behind it completely. However I absolutely fucking HATE it when people say "Liberals are ___" or "Conservatives always ____" That shit right there is about 90% of the damn problem. I'm a Liberals and I'm 100% of with the death penalty and love my guns, I also know Conservatives that are pro-choice. Hearing crap like "Libs/Cons are so morons because (insert asinine generality here)" just rustles my jimmies. Both sides use lie through their teeth and use rhetoric to further their own opinions and ideology, get over it. So the way he ended his message was both shortsighted and simply another example of rhetoric.
#16 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
>Fox News Channel
>Thomas Sowell (of the Hoover Institute)
>Use of the word "liberal" as a pejorative
>>reeks of conservative propaganda, which is nearly as bad as liberal propaganda
What the fuck is wrong with you partisan hacks? You conservatives and liberals need to do the world a favor and shut the fuck up. You extremists are the minority. You don't represent real Americans. And we don't need your propaganda.
Here's a reliable, non-partisan source whose Lie of the Year Award went to the Democrats this year.
"It's worth noting that the entire 77-cent gap is not necessarily due to discrimination -- a conclusion some listeners might have drawn when hearing Obama mention "equal pay for equal work" shortly after citing the 77-cent figure. And there are alternative calculations that show a smaller overall gap. Still, the 77-cent ratio is a credible figure from a credible agency. We rate the claim Mostly True."
#18 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
I completely agree that this is dripping with conservative bias, however that does not mean he is wrong...he simply presented it in a pretty idiotic way.
Furthermore interestingly this historic wage disparity is beginning to reverse. A 2010 study found that " in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities in the U.S., the median full-time salaries of young women are 8% higher than those of the guys in their peer group." In some cities like NYC women where making as much as 20% more. However this trend only exists for women under 30 without kids. Simply and interesting fact that most people are unaware of.
#19 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
I'm sick of partisan hacks getting away with being useless partisan hacks just because there might be a nugget of truth buried in the hackery. That goes for conservatives and liberals, the useless fucks.
And for the record, I included an unbiased source which indicates that the trend that Mr. Propaganda insists doesn't exist does, in fact, exist.
Furthermore, in order for that trend to reverse itself, as you're supposing below, would require the trend to exist in the first place. That which does not exist cannot reverse itself. That makes no sense.
As such, I think it's obvious to anyone who isn't a partisan hack that there is some measure of inequality between the sexes in that one regard. Yes, that inequality changes according to different factors in different industries, but the general trend, as you imply above, certainly exists.
Now, I don't think I agree that the Democrats have the right answer to fixing this issue, and I think they're using it as more of a political cudgel than anything, but since I'm not a partisan hack, I can think the Democrats are wrong without calling them libtards and making shit up about a demonstrable trend.
That's called using your brain. You propaganda artists do not speak for real Americans.
#123 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
I feel your not presenting yourself in a very clear way which is simply adding to this argument. Furthermore there is no reason to call me a propaganda artists, no where did i push a specific believe I simply provided the FACT that a 2010 research study found that young women in large cities are now actually earning more then their male counterparts. I didn't not imply that this was due to sexism, work ethic, or any other kind of bias, I simply provided the fact. If you don't agree with the fact that doesn't change that is is real.
These are the facts
-The is a historic existence of gender wage disparity (60's,70's,80's)
-This disparity has leveled out significantly in recent years
-Today in 147 out of 150 of the biggest cities young women earn 8% more then men
All Ii did is present these facts and you called me a propaganda artists and that is BS. You can argue over the reason for these facts all you want I don't give a shit. I presented FACTS nothing more nothing less.
#125 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
You didn't provide any facts. You provided a bunch of numbers which, I suppose, I'm supposed to simply trust are accurate.
Yes, the disparity has leveled out significantly over the years. While we're at it, income inequality has leveled out even more significantly since the Second Industrial Revolution.
But that's all statistical nonsense. The BASIC FACT is that there is, in fact, an income disparity. We can explain it away and show statistics which seem to suggest, but don't actually prove, that it might be changing itself, but the only FACT here is that the income disparity exists.
I'm calling you a propaganda artist, and using the word "artist" incredibly loosely, because all you're doing is throwing random and unsubstantiated stats at me.
It's EXACTLY what propaganda artists do. All talk, no actual FACTS.
So you want to argue FACTS? Let's argue FACTS. How come whenever this DEMONSTRABLE societal trend gets mentioned, people like you want to do everything EXCEPT acknowledge the simple FACT that there is, in FACT, an income disparity? Why can't you fucktards just admit it exists? I'm not asking you to agree that the government needs to get involved. I'm not sure I believe that, myself, so I wouldn't ask it of you. I'm not asking you to validate all the bullshit that comes from feminists.
All I'm asking you conservative apologists to do is admit the basic FACT.
And all I get in response is bullshit and hurt feelings.
#26 - alfrebecht (04/10/2014) [-]
If you can calm your hate for a second.
Sowell isn't saying that there isn't a correlation, he's saying the causation is being misinterpret. He's looking at the same data and drawing a different conclusion.
Not saying whether he's right, but if you want to disagree actually attack his main point.
#110 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
Not once did Mr. Sowell affirm that there is an unjustified inequity in wages between males and females. He did, however, seem to attack the notion by giving only one example of the inequity in wages and implying that it's perfectly justified considering how many more hours male doctors work than female doctors. No mention of the fact that female cashiers make less money than male cashier, or that female nurses make less than male nurses, etc., with nothing to misinterpret; they simply make less.
And don't call my agitation with propaganda "hate". You god damn propagandists and your bullshit. There was nothing hateful about calling an obvious hack an obvious hack.
Stop justifying partisan hackery. Time to think for ourselves.
#127 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
No, that's not hate. Hate is "fuck you, you're a piece of shit libtard, etc." I didn't say anything nasty about you except for the bit about you being a propaganda artist, but considering the fact that we're talking about your feelings (about being "hated") instead of the subject, it's not something I'm going to feel bad about.
I know this country has gotten very politically correct, but it's still not considered hate when you're criticized, especially when you're being unjustly criticized.
And considering how much damage propaganda has done to this country, in the past and in the present, I think it's only fair to be a little frustrated with propagandists like you.
You done bitchin'?
#128 - alfrebecht (04/10/2014) [-]
"You done bitchin'?"
What are you looking for as an outcome here? For me to come around to your way of thinking, or just to be right?
Achieving change comes from winning people to your side. Convincing people that they will be ridiculed and undermine when they speak with you only makes them go elsewhere.
#130 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
We're both talking to someone we're sure isn't gonna change his mind about anything, so if you're wondering what would compel a person to chat with a stranger to no avail, ask it to the mirror. I'm sure my response would be just about the same.
And don't bother me with that nonsense about winning people to my side. I've read Dale Carnegie's book, too, but I also know that I'm on FunnyJunk where the average user is probably no older than 14. I'm not getting anything done here regardless of how kind or polite or nice or sensitive or whatever-the-fuck I am.
Case in point, you STILL haven't just said "Oh, yeah, that trend exists, fair enough," and you're asking me why I'm acting like talking to some of these idiots is pointless?
Well, I'll tell you what--when I get off the computer and go back to talking to adults like I usually do, I'll probably revert to my normal, polite demeanor and you'll still have trouble admitting the truth about things.
That's why I don't bother. It won't change anything. You're clearly wrong and instead of just admitting it, you'd rather discuss how hurt your feelings are.
And you're confused as to why I'm not more sensitive to your bullshit. Fuckin' laughable.
#134 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
Here's a few samples of me being perfectly polite in giving an answer.
I don't mind you pointing out that I'm not always the nicest guy in the world, but for the record, if your REAL concern was how I talked to people, you'd have gone looking for these examples yourself. They aren't hard to find on my page and there's plenty more like them.
#136 - alfrebecht (04/10/2014) [-]
A person is the sum of all their actions and words. Not the ones they pick and choose.
And negativity is what people will remember. It's not a right or wrong, it's just basic psychology.
So if you want people to listen to you in earnest, you need to consider how you speak to them <all> the time. Like I said before, what is your goal when you talk to people. It's always important to ask yourself that.
#133 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
Wow, your feelings must be hurt if you're implying that I'm "uncivilized." I'm sorry you feel that I've treated your opinions, what, barbarically? Is that the implication?
I've got no problem with YOU, dude.
My problem is that people LIKE you like to disregard FACTS and then when they get caught doing it, they want to change to subject to things like, oh, you know, HOW the answer is phrased instead of WHAT the answer is. You see? It's not YOU I have a problem with you. It's how you ACT. Hate the sin, love the sinner, ya dig? I do apologize for the misinterpretation.
But I don't have a problem with you. If you honestly feel hurt because of my words, please know that I'm sorry. I don't think you're less than human or anything of that. In fact, I'm sure that you contribute to this being a better world in some way or another and I appreciate you and all that you do.
But I still think you're wrong and I still think you're changing the subject to keep from admitting that there is, in fact, a socioeconomic trend evident in America's economy and it deserves to be mentioned.
#135 - alfrebecht (04/10/2014) [-]
1) you didn't offend me, I'm hardier than that.
2) I agree there is evident disparity between the wages of men and women that Sowell is skimming over.
I think you're missing my main point. When people in this thread have disagreed with you you've come down on them like a hurricane. I'm just trying to encourage you to be more delicate in phrasing NOT because it hurts their feelings but because it hurts YOUR cause.
#139 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
You know, Alfrebecht, it's interesting that you say I'm hurting my own cause. It brings to bear an important problem with talking to people about politics and the like.
You're basically implying that I would have better luck with persuading people if I was polite and focused only on the facts, right?
I used to believe that, too. Then science proved me wrong.
"Maybe not. Recently, a few political scientists have begun to discover a human tendency deeply discouraging to anyone with faith in the power of information. It’s this: Facts don’t necessarily have the power to change our minds. In fact, quite the opposite. In a series of studies in 2005 and 2006, researchers at the University of Michigan found that when misinformed people, particularly political partisans, were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger."
You see? I know my methodology isn't going to change anything. I'm just venting frustration with a political system which is utterly broken in the main because people like you would rather complain about form than address the substance. That's the only reason politics is the way it is today.
That's where you and I differ. I know I'm not going to convince anybody of anything. You seem to think to maybe politeness and facts works better. Hate to say it, buck-o, but you're wrong. In the real world, people really are just that fuckin' stubborn.
Let's be clear, though--wage disparity isn't my "cause." I'm honestly not worried about that "cause". Like you said, the disparity is largely reversing itself and will probably reverse itself fully in the next 30 years without any government action whatsoever. Societies evolve.
#142 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
You mentioned my "cause." The only political subject of interest, the only potential "cause" of mine which I'm "hurting," would be income disparity.
Of course you mentioned facts. You said I'm hurting my own cause by being "uncivilized," right? Isn't the implication to be "civilized" and focus on facts and not acrimony? Well, there you go. It doesn't work. Being polite and informative "hurts the cause" just as much as being a douchebag. Case in point, we're going in complete circles.
Do you see why I don't bother, Afrebecht? Everything you told me, from a neurophysiological point of view, is complete hogwash.
So that's why I come down on people like a hurricane sometimes. Even if I am right, the other person is never gonna admit it. So there's no point in communicating non-barbarically. At this point, the only point to me continuing these asinine and pointless conversations is to amuse myself.
So that's what I'm doing.
Welcome to the real world.
#143 - alfrebecht (04/10/2014) [-]
First, I was referring the generic "cause" that you would pursue in a given discussion, not this one specifically.
Second, being civilized just means using societally accepted language and protocol in discussion (not, for instance, calling people "fucking liars")
Third, actually you are bothering, so no I don't see why you don't bother. If you didn't bother you wouldn't be here for me to disagree with.
Lastly, ok? I mean what's your point? I'm an idiot for trying to help someone find a better way of using their frustration and failing?
OH NO! MY life is ruined? What do you want from me here?
#144 - bodasion (04/10/2014) [-]
There's nothing I want from you, Alrebecht. You seem to be operating under the delusion that I'm the one who has to stop responding. Is that another one of those useless social conventions you're going to try to beat me to death with?
Like I said, I'm amusing myself. Isn't that, in part, why people talk to each other? You know, another one of those social conventions you're determined to hammer into my brain?
And what, do you honestly think I've running around cursing out everyone I've ever met in life whenever I disagreed with them? I'm talking to a bunch of fuckin' 14-year-olds, dude. You know, the idiots who thumb shit like "nigger nigger nigger" for no other reason than because it's a bad word?
Dude, all this concern for social convention... DO YOU KNOW WHICH SITE YOU'RE ON? This conversation is becoming INSANE.
But again, there's no "cause". And please spare me the Dale Carnegie routine. I used his name without being prompted for it, so I clearly have a rough understanding of How to Win Friends and Influence People.
#13 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
There was no need to say "Liberals" there, and if you hadn't, I would have agreed with you.
The fact is, these days "Liberals" refers to everyone who isn't a rich, white, bigoted asshole, because the republicans have made enemies of EVERYONE.
Women, racial minorities, sexual minorities, religious minorities.
The FEMINISTS enjoy quoting stats without fact checking. The Liberals are a massive group.
And rhetoric is the focus of all political parties, that's their entire goal.
#121 - mr skeltal (04/10/2014) [-]
Oh wow, so you're saying "it's cool, I have black friends."
Don't generalize everyone, you are an asshole, and your friend is an asshole too if they agree with the quote you posted.
(And yes, I do realize I generalized republicans as rich, white, and biggoted, but I really don't care about wrongly generalizing an asshole like you.)
#147 - mr skeltal (04/11/2014) [-]
No you didn't... You tried to say "I have black friends."
And maybe if you take offense to factual generalizations (conservatives are not the same as Republicans), you shouldn't make incorrect generalizations?
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