Funny enough, I'll probably wear them when I go to work with kids

You win this time Ken m.

there is a reason why shields and heavy armor were thrown away after guns were invented y know.

you really cant use real life arguments for a game that has homing soulmasses and lightening spears.

Armor and shields will still heavily used after guns were invented, it was a while after when they phased out

yeah. aka they were thrown away after people noticed they are kinda useless againts guns.



changes nothing from the original message.

And then replaced with shields that worked against guns, Riot Shields. Also I'm inclined to believe that Havel's shield as an example would be able to deflect rounds from any of the guns in Bloodborne, you have to remember that they are nowhere near as powerful as modern day weapons.

Babe Bloodborne has a cannon. I'm not sure if Havel's shield can withstand a big ass cannon.

Also it has a flamethrower and something that is a magic flamethrower as well

I did say guns, "babe". I-Frames from rolling in Dark Souls would make the cannon worthless, much the same as in Bloodborne PvP I imagine. And even if they were to sit there and take the hit, you can block the cannon shot with a wooden shield in Bloodborne, albeit not very effectively, add on a physically stronger being along with a significantly tougher shield and I think it stands a fair chance of being blocked.

oh and good luck staying behind riot shield when facing a higher caliber gun than some pea shooting 9 mm.

which dark souls doesnt have.


which werent invented for like 300 years after the invention of guns.


and they are musket.


versus a stone shield.


its a miracle that thing doesnt crumble at the first hit off a sword on it.

If we're going to take the games mechanics as fact then I can deflect the swing of the Taurus Demon once again as an example with barely any stamina drain using Havel's Shield. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Taurus Demon's downward force is more than a round from a musket. Even if we don't use the Taurus Demon, we use something else, something larger that you can still deflect and we reach the same result. The miracle Emit Force is pure force being driven into a single point and once again the same result occurs.

if we use game mechanics then not only is the hunter faster than anythign shown in dark souls he also has more range,better healing abilities and does more damage per hit compared to ds characters.

This is all irrelevant you've gone way off topic, we were talking about the gun and its ability to break a shield. But since you wish to use Bloodborne's games mechanics, Bloodborne's guns deal a pitifully small amount of damage at any and all ranges I find that to mean it also has very little in the way of force or impact thereby making it nigh impossible for the gun to break the shield.

On another note however, I do not think that characters in Bloodborne have more range than those in any of the Souls games, they are likely the same except the Souls games have more and can deal far more damage with them. Bloodborne's characters are indeed faster, there are not however as sturdy or resilient. Damage is an odd one to bring up, depending upon the resistances of the enemy both games have a potential for extraordinary damage, so that's a moot point really.

no originally we were talking about which would win. hunter versus chosen undead.


also you are the one who brought in other mechanics like the emit force and such(which btw doesnt actually have any feats of being anywhere near as strong as a musket shot.)



in order for a character in ds to have range they need to either go full bow or use magics. which are slow. unlike the musket. and im more of talking about avg dmg per second of sort. and considering how fast the bloodborne characters are and how easily they can spamm heals (specially in contrast to ds characters who get punished for healing pretty fast)

I was referring to the topic that I had instigated with you, not the original topic brought up by another. Why does Emit Force not come close to a musket shot? I do not understand, the principles behind how both achieve their goals are the same, a projectile is flung at a target at a large velocity.

If I remember correctly just to get back on topic, Bloodborne does have a shield, only one and it's the Wooden shield, and that can block gunfire, you still take damage but only a very small amount. So couple this with the fact that Souls games characters are physically stronger (though not as quick as you pointed out) and the fact that Havel's Shield is the strongest shield in the game, I am inclined to believe that any kind of fire would simply bounce off of the shield.

feats,the speed that emit force travels AND lastly the fact that emit force is more of a gust of wind or something and lacks the penetration power and weight that a musket pellet has.


and yea the muskets are weaksauce in bloodborne...

Yeah you're probably right about the Emit Force thing, but I could simply replace it with something like Forbidden Sun for DS2. Although it seems I don't have to, we are at an agreement with regards to the shield yes?

shields in ds CAN block shots from musket from bloodborne.

this much i yield. but

real life muskets would wreck them. and hunter would wreck the chosen undead in combat

I still dunno about that, Wrath of the Gods would one shot a hunter and they still do have to get close regardless of whether they have a gun or not. It also casts quite quickly, so if a hunter was say, dashing in to take a swipe they would be hit. Some of the faster parrying techniques such as the dagger and scimitar would also be a problem for the hunter. Miracles aside from Wrath would never hit a hunter, nor would many Sorceries or Hexes, I do think the AoE from Pyromancy would pose a problem for them however.

not fast enough to catch them and not high enough damage i think.


aoe pyromancy...yeah that would be best bet.

but coupled with how easy it is to heal for hunters and the whole fast damage and verstaible weapon system i still think the tables turn for their good.


also. cannon.

I-frames in DS would make the cannon useless. Also wrath is certainly fast enough and certainly does enough damage, it deals (In DS2) about 1.6k to 1.8k damage with 65 faith and the average player in Bloodborne does not have that amount of health, neither do the players in DS. I think you have a bit of a misconception though, Bloodborne characters do not swing any faster than one in DS would, they just move faster around the area. Versatile weapons are definitely something Bloodborne has over DS, though the unique abilities of some weapons in DS would pose a threat still.

maybe.


and bloodborne characters do move faster. and their weapons damage to speed ratio is better last time i checked. and then there is the whole musket parry mechanic that they can abuse. specially againts strength weapon users.

I can't see a difference in swing speed but maybe I'm just an idiot. The damage values from DS are definitely more than the ones in Bloodborne with regular swings of the same weapon type again from what I've seen, but if as you say they do swing faster then perhaps you're correct and the alpha damage of DS will eventually get outweighed by the consistency of Bloodborne.

its not the speed only. its the speed + power. not just speed.


you take the two of them and you find how much dmg it makes on average in certain time and compare it to ds character wielding a comparable same type of weapon. at the same level.


should also be noted from the damage difference that while ds2 builds have been mastered to near perfection bloodborne is still relatively new and its mechanics are not yet refined to max.



we also need to look at the things we attack as different types of foes have different levels of durability/armor and so on that affects the dmg.


but as far as i have seen. dps on bloodborne is higher on avg when compared to ds.

its not the swing speed its the dmg per second. aka a combination of how quick and how hard one hits in avg of a certain time. which i think is bigger for bloodborne.

also im lagging like crazy atm.which is weird since im only having opera open atm...

That's kind of what I was saying though. I don't see a difference in how quick Bloodborne characters hit but I do see DS characters hitting harder. Example my end game NG character hits about 900 per swing on mobs whereas Bloodborne characters seem to hit around 400-600 as an average.

As soon as they swing back, gunshot parry. Or the hunters would be fast enough to backstab.
I just think the hunters would be too quick for Dark Souls beefed up characters to deal with.

there are away more movesets that dont require a swing

Bring in WoG spam and TWoP
Y'know, because those are fair and balanced. Kinda like gunshot parries.

Cannon