mexicoman

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Age: 22
Date Signed Up:12/11/2010
Last Login:1/16/2015
Location:Washington
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latest user's comments

#168 - Why is testosterone a thing you want high levels of? …  [+] (1 new reply) 12/20/2012 on I can't put my finger on it +2
#180 - marcury (12/20/2012) [-]
#166 - With a wife like that, I'd say he is not a man capable of much…  [+] (2 new replies) 12/20/2012 on I can't put my finger on it +4
#182 - wagastragas (12/21/2012) [-]
with as much he masturbates, i would say his wifes gets tired long before him
#175 - gazajunk (12/20/2012) [-]
**gazajunk rolled a random image posted in comment #122989 at Ponyville ** oh snap!
#54 - Comment deleted 12/17/2012 on office revolt +8
#94 - >Mfw >This **** never gets old 12/17/2012 on Alpha +4
#146 - Eating Ramen noodles... with a spoon?  [+] (3 new replies) 12/16/2012 on Where´s my phone.. +18
#148 - icedcarbon (12/16/2012) [-]
I FUCKING EAT IT WITH A SPOON YOU GOT A PROBLEM!?
User avatar #171 - appelsiini (12/16/2012) [-]
IMBOSSIBRU! :O
#154 - fuperbooper (12/16/2012) [-]






Yes.
#482 - Hourglass figure for the victory! 12/16/2012 on Female Body Types -2
#15690 - Racist response is racist.  [+] (1 new reply) 12/15/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15696 - anonymous (12/15/2012) [-]
Racist, but true.
#69 - Am I the only one who thinks the left side is the obvious best choice? 12/14/2012 on Life choice +5
#15634 - Well I am saying that it is not different in its application a… 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15632 - Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that. … 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#42 - No, not that. You might be 21 and able to use it, but it is re…  [+] (1 new reply) 12/14/2012 on Pot is legalized +2
User avatar #69 - merlinboy (12/14/2012) [-]
Alright thanks, I was wondering how it all worked.
#41 - Yeah, but people within the state don't need to worry about it… 12/14/2012 on Pot is legalized +4
#15630 - There is a certain venom that is appropriate to have when talk… 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... +2
#15629 - Yeah I did, it is on my shelf right next to my gift. 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15628 - There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that… 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15626 - Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The disc… 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15624 - "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor…  [+] (9 new replies) 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15622 - Okay, but I am not arguing with you about This. I redirect you…  [+] (11 new replies) 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15623 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
So what are you even arguing then? That you have an opinion? Cool story then I guess.
User avatar #15624 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
"I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.".

Just because you seem to refuse reading and understanding my argument, again I say read my actual comments.
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15618 - Are you saying that they clearly are not functions of the gove… 12/14/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15615 - When I think of socialism, I think of the people pooling toget…  [+] (13 new replies) 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15619 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
In Capitalism wealth is spread to those who deserve it. In socialism you get a misallocation of resources and a lazy population that feels entitled to just about everything. When I say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on those that aren't contributing a damn thing to the collective" I mean exactly that. And subject matter matters. There's a difference between duty and right, and need and want. If you want something, its your duty to work for it. Otherwise nobody gets that thing you want, because nobody's making it. Unless you force them to make it, but that's slavery.
User avatar #15622 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Okay, but I am not arguing with you about This. I redirect you to my previous post with the lesbians.
User avatar #15623 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
So what are you even arguing then? That you have an opinion? Cool story then I guess.
User avatar #15624 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
"I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.".

Just because you seem to refuse reading and understanding my argument, again I say read my actual comments.
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15613 - No, that is not what this is. You are arguing against welfare,…  [+] (15 new replies) 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15614 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of Socialism, I think of large government involvement. The in-between of Capitalism and Communism. When I think of small government involvement, like defense and law enforcement, I think of Minarchism, not Socialism.

Socialist and Socialism are two different things.
#15615 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of socialism, I think of the people pooling together resources for the sake of providing for the necessities or more broadly to provide for things that the public wants money spent on. Those 'necessary government function' lines you like to draw are socialist, the type of governance that can be described as is socialism. When you say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.". One of those statements would mike a 'Minarchist' look like a dickhead, because they are changing the fundamentals of acceptable governance based on the subject matter.

GIF is unrelated
User avatar #15619 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
In Capitalism wealth is spread to those who deserve it. In socialism you get a misallocation of resources and a lazy population that feels entitled to just about everything. When I say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on those that aren't contributing a damn thing to the collective" I mean exactly that. And subject matter matters. There's a difference between duty and right, and need and want. If you want something, its your duty to work for it. Otherwise nobody gets that thing you want, because nobody's making it. Unless you force them to make it, but that's slavery.
User avatar #15622 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Okay, but I am not arguing with you about This. I redirect you to my previous post with the lesbians.
User avatar #15623 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
So what are you even arguing then? That you have an opinion? Cool story then I guess.
User avatar #15624 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
"I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.".

Just because you seem to refuse reading and understanding my argument, again I say read my actual comments.
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15610 - Im not having that ******* argument with you abou…  [+] (18 new replies) 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15612 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
And its not that I'm not open minded to social programs like defense and such, because those things are necessary. Things like Welfare, Healthcare, Keynesianism, aren't necessary, and hurt more than they help.
User avatar #15611 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
But that's what this is! I'm trying to argue against the facets OF socialism. Social Welfare is one of those things. I'm trying to explain why I don't like Socialism, because simply saying that I feel that it hampers productivity, lowers the average standard of living, creates class warfare, promotes corporate buy-ins to government, promotes powerful government, and all in all hurts everybody in the end, isn't enough for you apparently.
User avatar #15613 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
No, that is not what this is. You are arguing against welfare, a program that is socialist. I am saying that attacking this program for being socialist makes you a dick, if you also happen to approve of military spending and public roads. If you attack this program for other legitimate reasons pertaining to its economic effect and moral inconsistencies, then that is not the same thing.
User avatar #15614 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of Socialism, I think of large government involvement. The in-between of Capitalism and Communism. When I think of small government involvement, like defense and law enforcement, I think of Minarchism, not Socialism.

Socialist and Socialism are two different things.
#15615 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of socialism, I think of the people pooling together resources for the sake of providing for the necessities or more broadly to provide for things that the public wants money spent on. Those 'necessary government function' lines you like to draw are socialist, the type of governance that can be described as is socialism. When you say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.". One of those statements would mike a 'Minarchist' look like a dickhead, because they are changing the fundamentals of acceptable governance based on the subject matter.

GIF is unrelated
User avatar #15619 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
In Capitalism wealth is spread to those who deserve it. In socialism you get a misallocation of resources and a lazy population that feels entitled to just about everything. When I say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on those that aren't contributing a damn thing to the collective" I mean exactly that. And subject matter matters. There's a difference between duty and right, and need and want. If you want something, its your duty to work for it. Otherwise nobody gets that thing you want, because nobody's making it. Unless you force them to make it, but that's slavery.
User avatar #15622 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Okay, but I am not arguing with you about This. I redirect you to my previous post with the lesbians.
User avatar #15623 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
So what are you even arguing then? That you have an opinion? Cool story then I guess.
User avatar #15624 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
"I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.".

Just because you seem to refuse reading and understanding my argument, again I say read my actual comments.
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15595 - Picture 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15594 - You can be against welfare and not be against the poor, I easi… 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
#15593 - It was you who said " Or should that brother be allowed t…  [+] (23 new replies) 12/13/2012 on Politics - politics news,... 0
User avatar #15609 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
Military spending is NECESSARY though. Without it we would all be indoctrinated by an outside military force the instant they decided to bat a eye towards us. So you're saying the government should be in charge of all or nothing? That's retarded and not even worth spending the time explaining how poor of an argument that is. You're using fallacies to try and argue. I hope you understand that.

I already gave my arguments against social welfare, you're ignoring them. I said it doesn't help, it hurts. You said "HURR YOU'RE CALLING POOR PEOPLE LEECHES" because either you can't counter my argument, or you just want to be an ass.

And I never said the poor are leeches anyways. I said the poor who live off of welfare doing nothing productive for society are leeches, because that's what they are. Would it be nice to help them out? Yes. Is it our duty? No. They are not morally obligated to forcefully take property from another person. That's why charity organizations exist. And if they want more than minimal to no help, they need to work for it. You don't have the right to somebody else's property (money, food, clothes, etc.) for simply living. And there are plenty of jobs out there that aren't very difficult to get here in America, you just make more off of welfare/social security than actually taking a job.

And if you want to define Socialism as defense and law enforcement, so be it, I'm all for it then. I'm talking about universal Socialism that I object to. Where the government now controls the economy and society, not just defense.

You seem to think if one instance is OK, then all is OK. So by your logic if its OK to kill somebody as a last option in self defense, it's OK to murder a whole bus full of children. It's horrible logic and makes for a horrible argument.
User avatar #15610 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
Im not having that fucking argument with you about the legitimacy of certain government functions and welfare to be specific. My point is and always was that those who argue against welfare on the basis of 'its socialism' are in fact cunts. You have ignored my point. I would not approve of government funded handjobs, but not on the basis of my disdain for it being a function of socialism. You are trying to transform this into a welfare argument.
User avatar #15612 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
And its not that I'm not open minded to social programs like defense and such, because those things are necessary. Things like Welfare, Healthcare, Keynesianism, aren't necessary, and hurt more than they help.
User avatar #15611 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
But that's what this is! I'm trying to argue against the facets OF socialism. Social Welfare is one of those things. I'm trying to explain why I don't like Socialism, because simply saying that I feel that it hampers productivity, lowers the average standard of living, creates class warfare, promotes corporate buy-ins to government, promotes powerful government, and all in all hurts everybody in the end, isn't enough for you apparently.
User avatar #15613 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
No, that is not what this is. You are arguing against welfare, a program that is socialist. I am saying that attacking this program for being socialist makes you a dick, if you also happen to approve of military spending and public roads. If you attack this program for other legitimate reasons pertaining to its economic effect and moral inconsistencies, then that is not the same thing.
User avatar #15614 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of Socialism, I think of large government involvement. The in-between of Capitalism and Communism. When I think of small government involvement, like defense and law enforcement, I think of Minarchism, not Socialism.

Socialist and Socialism are two different things.
#15615 - mexicoman (12/13/2012) [-]
When I think of socialism, I think of the people pooling together resources for the sake of providing for the necessities or more broadly to provide for things that the public wants money spent on. Those 'necessary government function' lines you like to draw are socialist, the type of governance that can be described as is socialism. When you say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.". One of those statements would mike a 'Minarchist' look like a dickhead, because they are changing the fundamentals of acceptable governance based on the subject matter.

GIF is unrelated
User avatar #15619 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
In Capitalism wealth is spread to those who deserve it. In socialism you get a misallocation of resources and a lazy population that feels entitled to just about everything. When I say "I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on those that aren't contributing a damn thing to the collective" I mean exactly that. And subject matter matters. There's a difference between duty and right, and need and want. If you want something, its your duty to work for it. Otherwise nobody gets that thing you want, because nobody's making it. Unless you force them to make it, but that's slavery.
User avatar #15622 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Okay, but I am not arguing with you about This. I redirect you to my previous post with the lesbians.
User avatar #15623 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
So what are you even arguing then? That you have an opinion? Cool story then I guess.
User avatar #15624 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
"I don't want the funds taken from me to be spent on poor people." it is not the same as "If welfare means forcibly taxing and spending (socialism) people than I am against it.".

Just because you seem to refuse reading and understanding my argument, again I say read my actual comments.
User avatar #15635 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Ah I see what you are saying now. I guess I can agree to that. But there's always those people. Dumbasses unfortunately exist.
User avatar #15633 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
Most of what I said wasn't about welfare. I've read through everything you've said in this thread at least 2-3 times. I don't think you read what I say fully, or you can't understand the implications my words have towards your argument. Your argument is that most conservatives "suddenly fucking hate socialism" while advocating things like military spending, which is hypocritical right?

I'm saying that your argument is a fallacy because Welfare is leagues different than military spending and infrastructure.

You also claim that conservatives simply have a hatred for the poor, which is just plain baseless, untrue, and slanderous.

I might rant a little about welfare, but that's just my thoughts flowing as I type. I tend to over-think things. I was simultaneously trying to argue two points, and I guess my counterpoint was overshadowed.
User avatar #15634 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Well I am saying that it is not different in its application and funding, which is what one is objecting to when 'socialism!' is the critique that is applied to it, and when they do that they ought to know better. But they don't know better, because that kind of mistake in judgement is often the product of a sad and sick disdain for the poor.

It'd be like if somebody was perfectly fine with sleeping under covers made of cotton or silk, but whenever they see something they morally object to like panda fur covers they yell "Fuck Panda-bear covers AND Beds! This country is descending into a state of Beds!".
User avatar #15631 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But they object to that welfare because they object all welfare. Welfare is used for political gain. Charities do the job much better and without the corruption or thievery through taxes. And most conservatives realize that there are necessities that we can't get rid of. What are you talking about when you say they "ought to know better" care to elaborate?

And there you go again with "disdain for the poor." There is absolutely no motive for conservative people to hate the poor, and there is no evidence showing that conservatives hate the poor. It's a leftist twist that you seem to strongly believe in, and something that I can't really understand unless you truly believe that welfare is a natural born right and the fact that conservatives don't like welfare makes them immoral in that regard.

Now if you're saying that SOME conservatives argue in the retarded way you say they do, then the point is moot because there's always that one retard in any group. You said before "mostly conservatives" which I see as an attack on conservative thinking. By your wording you were basically saying "All conservatives just hate the poor and taxes and that's why they don't like socialism" Is that what you were saying originally?
User avatar #15632 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Again with the welfare, I am not talking about that.

I recommend re-reading at least my last three comments just to clear the muddied waters because you are having trouble understanding the words I am typing to you. Keep reading them over again until you get it, because when you do you will understand how to approach this dialogue. I don't necessarily blame you, you probably have had more than your fair share of fights about welfare and that must have tainted the lenses that you read with. I sincerely do not understand the misconceptions you are getting here.
User avatar #15627 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
(in response to your last post)

But you're the one who said

"But you suddenly fucking hate socialism when it is used to help a single mother's children not die, yes that can be seen as hatred of the poor without it being a motherfuckin' straw man. "

It brought up the point of welfare, which I responded to and then you defended, and I gave my rebuttal. Then you changed the subject again and the argument continued.

Now you're saying that it was never about welfare when our whole argument was on the basis of welfare. You've managed to confuse me greatly.
User avatar #15628 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
There isn't anything inconsistent about that. The fact is that when welfare is used for things like feeding children, many conservatives object to it. Their stated reasons are many times actual arguments highlighting the impact it has morally and economically speaking, but more than an acceptable number of conservative or libertarian minded opponents of welfare " suddenly fucking hate socialism" when it doesn't fit their ideology. So instead of construct these arguments that you appear to be more than capable of firing off at will, they attack the governmental system of taxing and spending when they ought to know better. Now I believe that this nonsensical misstepping is more than just stupidity but a disdain for the poor that is so strong that the very nature of the issue renders even its socialist underpinnings immoral.

I did make side comments that indirectly condemned the the mindset of one who hates these programs that are "used to help a single mother's children not die" and your little 'leeches' label that you used to paint what I imagine as being a large set of welfare recipients but that hardly alters the very nature of the argument, and if you insist on side-tracking us here then you will be disappointed because I am not here to debate that.
User avatar #15625 - Yardie (12/14/2012) [-]
But that's not the argument. That's oversimplifying it. There's necessary things and there's things people want, and things politicians give for political reasons.

Throwing money at the poor isn't a solution to a problem is the argument. It's not to spite the poor, it's with the big picture in mind. I would be all for no taxation at all, but that would turn out bad because America isn't the only country and there is need for organization and a military defense force.

Again your argument is based on a fallacy, so I wasn't taking that part serious.
#15626 - mexicoman (12/14/2012) [-]
Do not delude yourself, that's not the argument here. The discussion sparking contention I had was that people who object to welfare on the grounds of it being socialism are cunts, that is the point that I raised. You then took that as an opportunity to defend the anti-welfare stance, which is not what I was talking about. I was speaking on people who selectively decide when the concept of socialism is acceptable based on their own prejudices toward the poor.
#15608 - Ruspanic (12/13/2012) [-]
Here's a related political cartoon.
#15607 - Ruspanic has deleted their comment.
User avatar #15606 - Ruspanic (12/13/2012) [-]
Let me step in here. To understand this sort of reasoning, think of taxes as a necessary evil.
Taxes are basically the government taking a portion of your money and using it in ways you have no control over. If you refuse to pay taxes, you can be fined or incarcerated. Some hardcore libertarians or anarchists compare taxation to extortion by the Mafia - you are coerced into paying the government money for services you did not explicitly request. Therefore taxes violate property rights and restrict economic freedom.

Minarchists and libertarians, however, are willing to make an exception by arguing that if it were not for some absolutely essential tax-funded government services, social order could not exist and individual rights would not be protected. Typically these exceptions include defense from external threats (military spending), law enforcement/criminal justice to protect people's lives and rights, infrastructure, and civil justice (mediating disputes).

These are typically considered essential functions - though there's some disagreement even here (Yardie excludes infrastructure) - and they benefit everyone in society, including the poor.

Because taxes are evil, however, they should be avoided whenever possible. From this standpoint, welfare spending is unethical because it takes money from the many and redistributes it to benefit the few, without the explicit consent of the taxpayers who provide that money.

Please correct me, Yardie, if I have misrepresented your ideology.
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