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ineptinevitability

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Date Signed Up:11/13/2012
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latest user's comments

#21 - What effects did you experience? I wouldn't disagree …  [+] (1 reply) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... 0
User avatar
#22 - dudulli (09/01/2016) [-]
Euphoric + sedation. If I remember I was playing some video game and was getting quite slow. I didn't care, though, because I was very satisfied by it.
That's the one I can remember.
Basically the effects of a hypnotic with euphory.

"If [...] it will never be researched"
Well, that's really bad. I have to be on your side on that.
#20 - Absolutely! My objective was never to justify this for purely …  [+] (1 reply) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... 0
#24 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
While I don't condone the recreational use of drugs I would never judge someone else if they choose to do it themselves. I hope that more research on the pharmacological uses of kratom but would like for you and those like you to be careful and cautious when using it.

While I disagree with making it freely available I do believe that the FDA should be the one to make the decision and not the DEA. There it could be regulated and researched (although if it becomes a schedule 1 it may still be researched by those able to obtain a licence), hopefully for the betterment of everyone. I can't stress this enough but please be take care of yourself when using this or any other drug, medicine, herb, or whatever your pleasure may be.
#18 - I've had plenty of experience with kratom and not once has it …  [+] (3 replies) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... 0
User avatar
#19 - dudulli (09/01/2016) [-]
If we go by experience:
I say the exact opposite. The few times I ingested Kratom extract like tea, which tastes like ear wax mixed with bile, the high was noticeable stronger than high doses of benzodiazepines (equivalent of 100mg diazepame).

The study you linked comes to the conclusion that there is much needed research when it comes to Kratom. It's not surprising that it will be a scheduled substance
User avatar
#21 - ineptinevitability (09/01/2016) [-]
What effects did you experience?

I wouldn't disagree that it deserves research. But if it becomes a Schedule I drug, it will never be researched.
User avatar
#22 - dudulli (09/01/2016) [-]
Euphoric + sedation. If I remember I was playing some video game and was getting quite slow. I didn't care, though, because I was very satisfied by it.
That's the one I can remember.
Basically the effects of a hypnotic with euphory.

"If [...] it will never be researched"
Well, that's really bad. I have to be on your side on that.
#13 - 1. It's not an opiate, but yes it's commonly used to substitut…  [+] (3 replies) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... 0
#15 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
I want your honest answer to my next question.

Do you want Kratom to be freely available to be used as a recreational drug?
User avatar
#20 - ineptinevitability (09/01/2016) [-]
Absolutely! My objective was never to justify this for purely medical reasons (although, that is a very popular use for it). The emphasis on kratom as an opiate substitute is not my idea, nor is it new. It's actually my understanding that, that's how was popularized in the US. Considering there's a pretty serious opiate epidemic (especially in the Northeastern US), it's worth emphasizing. Their rehabilitation inside and outside of prison is largely coming out of the taxpayers wallet. These rehabilitation centers have a 40 - 60% relapse rate for addicts.

But yes, I firmly believe it should be left to the market for whatever purpose the consumer wants, not the state.
#24 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
While I don't condone the recreational use of drugs I would never judge someone else if they choose to do it themselves. I hope that more research on the pharmacological uses of kratom but would like for you and those like you to be careful and cautious when using it.

While I disagree with making it freely available I do believe that the FDA should be the one to make the decision and not the DEA. There it could be regulated and researched (although if it becomes a schedule 1 it may still be researched by those able to obtain a licence), hopefully for the betterment of everyone. I can't stress this enough but please be take care of yourself when using this or any other drug, medicine, herb, or whatever your pleasure may be.
#6 - For those looking for sources, here is excellent summary on th…  [+] (1 reply) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... +1
User avatar
#17 - dudulli (09/01/2016) [-]
Did you even read the conclusion of the study?
#5 - Good question. I know you're poking fun, but I see the reasoni…  [+] (2 replies) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... 0
#8 - thylacine (09/01/2016) [-]
Who says I was poking fun and not being sincere?

I'm not one for conspiracies, but it "might" be plausible that the DEA is afraid of losing their funding if the number of illegal drug crimes drops tremendously, thus they "might" do everything they "legally" can to stop this from happening even if this "might" include banning a leaf that can help stop addiction......
User avatar
#11 - ineptinevitability (09/01/2016) [-]
I couldn't tell if you were sarcastic or not. But anyways, that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory at all. It sounds like a very rational incentive for the DEA to do so. Federal agencies are notorious for inflating social and political issues to extend their own authority. It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case.
#4 - Well that's the thing, there isn't a lot of research on the su…  [+] (5 replies) 09/01/2016 on DEA plans to ban kratom... +1
#7 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
First let me thank you for a mighty fine article! However, below are some direct quotes and that the end is my personal verdict.

"The most extensively-characterized of kratom's active pharmacologic agents have been the mitragynine analogs." - This is an opioid or opioid-like and therefore should be restricted from recreational use.

"In the West, kratom is increasingly being used by individuals for the self-management of pain or withdrawal from opioid drugs such as heroin and prescription pain relievers." - Since the FDA classifies this as an herbal supplement it would be ill advised that people undertake this on their ow as no medical doctor would prescribe it without additional research and clinical trials.

"... when they are given to animals for 5 days or longer, both compounds produce a state of physical dependence, with withdrawal symptoms that resemble those of opioid withdrawal." - Seems like we're coming full circle here.

"... in Southeast Asia, it has long been recognized that individuals will seek out and abuse kratom for its euphoric and mind-altering effects and that chronic users can become tolerant of, physically dependent on, and addicted to kratom." - This varies from user to user but is still a concern.

Now, the points above are true to some extent but when you break it down this substance should be controlled and researched. It does have several pharmacological uses (maybe) but it still shows a significant chance of abuse and misuse. You say there is no research and it is unfounded (in terms of the ban) but I say there is and it should be restricted. Now I want to see some counter points young man/woman!
User avatar
#13 - ineptinevitability (09/01/2016) [-]
1. It's not an opiate, but yes it's commonly used to substitute opiates.

2. That's the problem. Doctors are incentivized to prescribe patented drugs because of corporate compensation. This is a well known problem. I believe John Oliver even did a viral video on that subject. Kratom cannot be patented. Even if benefits were scientifically proven, no one would prescribe it anyways.

3. I don't believe that proves anything. I'm not some anti-animal-testing hippie or anything, but the way humans and animals react to various foods and substances is very different. I don't believe the animal testing is a good metric. While every day use is not recommended by experienced users, I've personally used it 7 days in a row and had 0 withdraw symptoms the following week of no use at all.

4. I'm well aware that kratom can be abused and addictive. But it's nowhere near comparable to its Schedule I opiate counterparts. Even if addicted, most users report a much more mild withdrawal experience than that of heroin and opiates.

Lastly, I do not believe making it a controlled substance is a good compromise for the following reasons: 1. Doctors aren't financially incentivized to prescribe it, 2. this will raise the price, making its opiate counterparts (heroin and hydrocodone) more affordable. 3. The potential for abuse is a hypocritical justification to restrict recreational use. One could easily justify the ban of heroin or the control of medical opiates on the basis that they're not just addictive, but extremely addictive with high risk of overdose. Even without OD, they're physically and mentally destructive to an extreme. This is not the case with kratom.

#15 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
I want your honest answer to my next question.

Do you want Kratom to be freely available to be used as a recreational drug?
User avatar
#20 - ineptinevitability (09/01/2016) [-]
Absolutely! My objective was never to justify this for purely medical reasons (although, that is a very popular use for it). The emphasis on kratom as an opiate substitute is not my idea, nor is it new. It's actually my understanding that, that's how was popularized in the US. Considering there's a pretty serious opiate epidemic (especially in the Northeastern US), it's worth emphasizing. Their rehabilitation inside and outside of prison is largely coming out of the taxpayers wallet. These rehabilitation centers have a 40 - 60% relapse rate for addicts.

But yes, I firmly believe it should be left to the market for whatever purpose the consumer wants, not the state.
#24 - anon (09/01/2016) [-]
While I don't condone the recreational use of drugs I would never judge someone else if they choose to do it themselves. I hope that more research on the pharmacological uses of kratom but would like for you and those like you to be careful and cautious when using it.

While I disagree with making it freely available I do believe that the FDA should be the one to make the decision and not the DEA. There it could be regulated and researched (although if it becomes a schedule 1 it may still be researched by those able to obtain a licence), hopefully for the betterment of everyone. I can't stress this enough but please be take care of yourself when using this or any other drug, medicine, herb, or whatever your pleasure may be.
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