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ichbinlecher    

no avatar Level 212 Comments: Comedic Genius
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Date Signed Up:8/14/2011
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latest user's comments

#258 - Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew … 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#76 - It is a stronger trend, as far as I know. It is augmented als… 05/09/2013 on Mistakes And False Predictions 0
#251 - Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what divi… 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#250 - Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothi…  [+] (3 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#248 - The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why …  [+] (6 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
#72 - It does slowly irradicate the sense of other that has been the…  [+] (2 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Mistakes And False Predictions 0
User avatar #75 - aviatrix (05/09/2013) [-]
I thought even before the internet age, a large majority of young people associated themselves with being liberal. Maybe the internet's augmented this though.
#76 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
It is a stronger trend, as far as I know. It is augmented also by a liberal schooling system and such, but it has become more pronounced lately.
#69 - The Darwin one: He said this because the church publi… 05/09/2013 on Mistakes And False Predictions 0
#227 - The question that scientists are wondering is why the panic co…  [+] (13 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#243 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
P.S: Please have someone supervise you. You can drown even in bathroom sink.
#250 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothing about cold water.
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#241 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Pls link the scientists. This doesn't sound as a valid scientific question. When you have trait that can somehow ensure survival, then it's selected for and survives. There is no magical purpose for everything in human body. Most of the traits actually have more cons than pros now, but it isn't evolutionary feasible to get rid of them in terms of hundred of milions of years.

Example> Testicles outside the body do not lower the temperature beyond interhuman variance, yet they weaken the abdominal wall significantly. But theres no way to get them back in as we as anyone who would be born with balls halfway up would endanger his survival significantly, because the abdominal muscles would mash the shit out of them and thus it won't be selected for and we are pretty much stuck with feature that was once beneficial for our rat-like ancestors, but now only makes us vulerable.

Yea, because the panic is pretty normal on land as it means something is choking you, or you are gravely wounded. Have you read the article I sent you? When you get your face in cold water, your capability of holding breath will raise significantly. You can try this at home.
#248 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why a brain would desire oxygen" the question is "how does the mechanism by which we know to begin panicking work." Can't link because I am not a scientist nor do I care to look it up, this is information that I absorbed, most likely in one of my many news feeds. I know it is at least dated by about a year, since I recall being in a summer job.
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
#203 - >>Sietas also holds the world record, at 9 minutes and 8…  [+] (15 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#210 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I was just saying you can train to withstand it. It's not just some amazing people, there is whole sub-culture about it. Like weigh-lifters. Anyone could train to become one, but most of the people see no need.

Also, it's pretty easy to tell why the brain panicks. Deoxygenation of the brain is the most common way to die ever, whatever might have caused it. And it's just another form of pain or fear that can be easily overcame when you put effort into it. Most people just thing it's one of the healthier fears.

Also, it's not that magical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex We still got it. It's just deep enough to need some practice. But some cultures, like the fire-land people and pearl divers were dependant upon it as a mean of survival, so I'd say it's something we as a specie posses but not use very often.

So in conclusion I'd like to postulate it's not unnatural for ordinary humans to withold breath for quite more than 1 minute. Pretty much like spear throwing it's just a ability we have, but don't use anymore.
#227 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question that scientists are wondering is why the panic comes so early before oxygen deprivation. The residual oxygen in the blood is high enough that it takes some time but panic sets in about 1/10 that time. Sure this trait is useful for survival, but how does the brain even begin to know when to panic.

My postulation has to do with timing and when you inhale, as the brain can't seem to account for oxygen levels directly (since the same people panic at different O2 levels, sometimes drastically so). Main point is that this invention will not help us become super people, because our bodies have different plans.
#243 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
P.S: Please have someone supervise you. You can drown even in bathroom sink.
#250 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothing about cold water.
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#241 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Pls link the scientists. This doesn't sound as a valid scientific question. When you have trait that can somehow ensure survival, then it's selected for and survives. There is no magical purpose for everything in human body. Most of the traits actually have more cons than pros now, but it isn't evolutionary feasible to get rid of them in terms of hundred of milions of years.

Example> Testicles outside the body do not lower the temperature beyond interhuman variance, yet they weaken the abdominal wall significantly. But theres no way to get them back in as we as anyone who would be born with balls halfway up would endanger his survival significantly, because the abdominal muscles would mash the shit out of them and thus it won't be selected for and we are pretty much stuck with feature that was once beneficial for our rat-like ancestors, but now only makes us vulerable.

Yea, because the panic is pretty normal on land as it means something is choking you, or you are gravely wounded. Have you read the article I sent you? When you get your face in cold water, your capability of holding breath will raise significantly. You can try this at home.
#248 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why a brain would desire oxygen" the question is "how does the mechanism by which we know to begin panicking work." Can't link because I am not a scientist nor do I care to look it up, this is information that I absorbed, most likely in one of my many news feeds. I know it is at least dated by about a year, since I recall being in a summer job.
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
#265 - Crazy talk. Mathematics is just something done on paper with … 05/09/2013 on interesting 0
#264 - This was a joke... 05/09/2013 on interesting 0
#174 - Yeah, this guy breaths 100% oxygen prior to doing this - did y…  [+] (17 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#203 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
>>Sietas also holds the world record, at 9 minutes and 8 seconds, for holding his breath underwater without inhaling oxygen first.

So the number is under the "risks brain damage" time. Additionally, you seem to think that I am saying all people can only hold their breath 1.5 min or so, when I am actually talking about average people.

There are things that can be done that are more amazing than this, like monks that can slow their heart rate to ridiculous levels (and likewise their breathing will slow as well). I am not denying the amazing people, but most people will never have that - and my point stands, the brain panics for oxygen after a very short period of time without breathing. No one knows why, so I postulated that perhaps the very act of not breathing for awhile causes the brain to freak out.
#210 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I was just saying you can train to withstand it. It's not just some amazing people, there is whole sub-culture about it. Like weigh-lifters. Anyone could train to become one, but most of the people see no need.

Also, it's pretty easy to tell why the brain panicks. Deoxygenation of the brain is the most common way to die ever, whatever might have caused it. And it's just another form of pain or fear that can be easily overcame when you put effort into it. Most people just thing it's one of the healthier fears.

Also, it's not that magical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex We still got it. It's just deep enough to need some practice. But some cultures, like the fire-land people and pearl divers were dependant upon it as a mean of survival, so I'd say it's something we as a specie posses but not use very often.

So in conclusion I'd like to postulate it's not unnatural for ordinary humans to withold breath for quite more than 1 minute. Pretty much like spear throwing it's just a ability we have, but don't use anymore.
#227 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question that scientists are wondering is why the panic comes so early before oxygen deprivation. The residual oxygen in the blood is high enough that it takes some time but panic sets in about 1/10 that time. Sure this trait is useful for survival, but how does the brain even begin to know when to panic.

My postulation has to do with timing and when you inhale, as the brain can't seem to account for oxygen levels directly (since the same people panic at different O2 levels, sometimes drastically so). Main point is that this invention will not help us become super people, because our bodies have different plans.
#243 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
P.S: Please have someone supervise you. You can drown even in bathroom sink.
#250 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothing about cold water.
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#241 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Pls link the scientists. This doesn't sound as a valid scientific question. When you have trait that can somehow ensure survival, then it's selected for and survives. There is no magical purpose for everything in human body. Most of the traits actually have more cons than pros now, but it isn't evolutionary feasible to get rid of them in terms of hundred of milions of years.

Example> Testicles outside the body do not lower the temperature beyond interhuman variance, yet they weaken the abdominal wall significantly. But theres no way to get them back in as we as anyone who would be born with balls halfway up would endanger his survival significantly, because the abdominal muscles would mash the shit out of them and thus it won't be selected for and we are pretty much stuck with feature that was once beneficial for our rat-like ancestors, but now only makes us vulerable.

Yea, because the panic is pretty normal on land as it means something is choking you, or you are gravely wounded. Have you read the article I sent you? When you get your face in cold water, your capability of holding breath will raise significantly. You can try this at home.
#248 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why a brain would desire oxygen" the question is "how does the mechanism by which we know to begin panicking work." Can't link because I am not a scientist nor do I care to look it up, this is information that I absorbed, most likely in one of my many news feeds. I know it is at least dated by about a year, since I recall being in a summer job.
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
#164 - That is a different scenario, as the air contracts and expands…  [+] (19 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Tickle my balls and call me... 0
#174 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Yeah, this guy breaths 100% oxygen prior to doing this - did you watch the video? Or read the article?
#203 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
>>Sietas also holds the world record, at 9 minutes and 8 seconds, for holding his breath underwater without inhaling oxygen first.

So the number is under the "risks brain damage" time. Additionally, you seem to think that I am saying all people can only hold their breath 1.5 min or so, when I am actually talking about average people.

There are things that can be done that are more amazing than this, like monks that can slow their heart rate to ridiculous levels (and likewise their breathing will slow as well). I am not denying the amazing people, but most people will never have that - and my point stands, the brain panics for oxygen after a very short period of time without breathing. No one knows why, so I postulated that perhaps the very act of not breathing for awhile causes the brain to freak out.
#210 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I was just saying you can train to withstand it. It's not just some amazing people, there is whole sub-culture about it. Like weigh-lifters. Anyone could train to become one, but most of the people see no need.

Also, it's pretty easy to tell why the brain panicks. Deoxygenation of the brain is the most common way to die ever, whatever might have caused it. And it's just another form of pain or fear that can be easily overcame when you put effort into it. Most people just thing it's one of the healthier fears.

Also, it's not that magical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex We still got it. It's just deep enough to need some practice. But some cultures, like the fire-land people and pearl divers were dependant upon it as a mean of survival, so I'd say it's something we as a specie posses but not use very often.

So in conclusion I'd like to postulate it's not unnatural for ordinary humans to withold breath for quite more than 1 minute. Pretty much like spear throwing it's just a ability we have, but don't use anymore.
#227 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question that scientists are wondering is why the panic comes so early before oxygen deprivation. The residual oxygen in the blood is high enough that it takes some time but panic sets in about 1/10 that time. Sure this trait is useful for survival, but how does the brain even begin to know when to panic.

My postulation has to do with timing and when you inhale, as the brain can't seem to account for oxygen levels directly (since the same people panic at different O2 levels, sometimes drastically so). Main point is that this invention will not help us become super people, because our bodies have different plans.
#243 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
P.S: Please have someone supervise you. You can drown even in bathroom sink.
#250 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothing about cold water.
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#241 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Pls link the scientists. This doesn't sound as a valid scientific question. When you have trait that can somehow ensure survival, then it's selected for and survives. There is no magical purpose for everything in human body. Most of the traits actually have more cons than pros now, but it isn't evolutionary feasible to get rid of them in terms of hundred of milions of years.

Example> Testicles outside the body do not lower the temperature beyond interhuman variance, yet they weaken the abdominal wall significantly. But theres no way to get them back in as we as anyone who would be born with balls halfway up would endanger his survival significantly, because the abdominal muscles would mash the shit out of them and thus it won't be selected for and we are pretty much stuck with feature that was once beneficial for our rat-like ancestors, but now only makes us vulerable.

Yea, because the panic is pretty normal on land as it means something is choking you, or you are gravely wounded. Have you read the article I sent you? When you get your face in cold water, your capability of holding breath will raise significantly. You can try this at home.
#248 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why a brain would desire oxygen" the question is "how does the mechanism by which we know to begin panicking work." Can't link because I am not a scientist nor do I care to look it up, this is information that I absorbed, most likely in one of my many news feeds. I know it is at least dated by about a year, since I recall being in a summer job.
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
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#162 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
You can actually train to withstand about 15 minutes. Google "free diving".
#164 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
That is a different scenario, as the air contracts and expands as you dive. The cool side is that it is bend's proof as you are breathing pressurized air for your body to treat like normal air.
#174 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Yeah, this guy breaths 100% oxygen prior to doing this - did you watch the video? Or read the article?
#203 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
>>Sietas also holds the world record, at 9 minutes and 8 seconds, for holding his breath underwater without inhaling oxygen first.

So the number is under the "risks brain damage" time. Additionally, you seem to think that I am saying all people can only hold their breath 1.5 min or so, when I am actually talking about average people.

There are things that can be done that are more amazing than this, like monks that can slow their heart rate to ridiculous levels (and likewise their breathing will slow as well). I am not denying the amazing people, but most people will never have that - and my point stands, the brain panics for oxygen after a very short period of time without breathing. No one knows why, so I postulated that perhaps the very act of not breathing for awhile causes the brain to freak out.
#210 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I was just saying you can train to withstand it. It's not just some amazing people, there is whole sub-culture about it. Like weigh-lifters. Anyone could train to become one, but most of the people see no need.

Also, it's pretty easy to tell why the brain panicks. Deoxygenation of the brain is the most common way to die ever, whatever might have caused it. And it's just another form of pain or fear that can be easily overcame when you put effort into it. Most people just thing it's one of the healthier fears.

Also, it's not that magical. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_reflex We still got it. It's just deep enough to need some practice. But some cultures, like the fire-land people and pearl divers were dependant upon it as a mean of survival, so I'd say it's something we as a specie posses but not use very often.

So in conclusion I'd like to postulate it's not unnatural for ordinary humans to withold breath for quite more than 1 minute. Pretty much like spear throwing it's just a ability we have, but don't use anymore.
#227 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question that scientists are wondering is why the panic comes so early before oxygen deprivation. The residual oxygen in the blood is high enough that it takes some time but panic sets in about 1/10 that time. Sure this trait is useful for survival, but how does the brain even begin to know when to panic.

My postulation has to do with timing and when you inhale, as the brain can't seem to account for oxygen levels directly (since the same people panic at different O2 levels, sometimes drastically so). Main point is that this invention will not help us become super people, because our bodies have different plans.
#243 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
P.S: Please have someone supervise you. You can drown even in bathroom sink.
#250 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Sent me? I read all the articles you posted, but recall nothing about cold water.
#252 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
The one about mammalian diving reflex on wikipedia clearly states:
Every animal's diving reflex is triggered specifically by cold water contacting the face[2] – water that is warmer than 21 °C (70 °F) does not cause the reflex, and neither does submersion of body parts other than the face.
#258 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, already replied on that bit. Didn't read because I knew the concept. You are correct (or wiki is, whatever).
#251 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, nevermind, I didn't read the wiki one, as I know what diving reflexes are.
#241 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Pls link the scientists. This doesn't sound as a valid scientific question. When you have trait that can somehow ensure survival, then it's selected for and survives. There is no magical purpose for everything in human body. Most of the traits actually have more cons than pros now, but it isn't evolutionary feasible to get rid of them in terms of hundred of milions of years.

Example> Testicles outside the body do not lower the temperature beyond interhuman variance, yet they weaken the abdominal wall significantly. But theres no way to get them back in as we as anyone who would be born with balls halfway up would endanger his survival significantly, because the abdominal muscles would mash the shit out of them and thus it won't be selected for and we are pretty much stuck with feature that was once beneficial for our rat-like ancestors, but now only makes us vulerable.

Yea, because the panic is pretty normal on land as it means something is choking you, or you are gravely wounded. Have you read the article I sent you? When you get your face in cold water, your capability of holding breath will raise significantly. You can try this at home.
#248 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
The question isn't why we panic like "hmm...I wonder why a brain would desire oxygen" the question is "how does the mechanism by which we know to begin panicking work." Can't link because I am not a scientist nor do I care to look it up, this is information that I absorbed, most likely in one of my many news feeds. I know it is at least dated by about a year, since I recall being in a summer job.
#266 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
It's actually just another bug in our body called the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instinctive_drowning_response

It isn't about lack of oxygen causing the panic, it's about when you are panicking, lack of oxygen will make it far worse. Ask any astmhatic. It's pretty reasonable to panic when you are under distress and start running out of oxygen. The mechanisms are needlesly complicated, but basically, your Autonomic nervous system will decide it's done with your oxygen lacking ass and takes control. It's one of the parts of our neural system that's pretty well understood, so if you feel like it, wiki or google it.
#273 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Nonrelated or related but not the topic at hand. The question at hand is why the brain begins panic some 8 minutes before there is even risk of damage. And how the brain decides "now" is the time to panic seemingly arbitrarily.
#274 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
Probably because your muscles aren't that good at storing oxygen and every second makes you weaker. And the same goes for the rest of your neural tissue, shutting down one by one.

So may it be water, snakes, falling trees or other humans, it's always safer to get out of the harm's way as soon as possible. Especially when you are surprised by the events.
#276 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
But you don't seem to be getting that scientists, as of when I last heard, do not know why. We can probably all we want, but that isn't science. The point remains, this invention, while great, will likely not reduce the panic people feel when they can not breath - and will likely not help much outside its current usage.
#281 - morkotlap (05/09/2013) [-]
I asked for the link and I tried to google. I didn't find anything, so pardon me if I doubt this. The mechanism is pretty well understood as far as internet goes.

And just a while ago you said that when the guy had 100 percent oxygen it didn't count somehow. Raising oxygen level would definitely help move this boundary few minutes longer.
#287 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps, and I will concede that. I also do not know how the mechanism works. You can doubt all you want, I can't verify because I lack the resources and would have to do the same thing as you - and there is no point in doing the work myself when it doesn't matter enough for me. I am not trying to change your worldview on things, and I don't care much if you listen. I knew a random, related factoid, and shared it - basically the only thing I do on this site.

The reason I said that didn't count is because I thought somehow you were trying to say that people can hold their breath past the point of oxygen starvation (the 10 minute mark). And changing a variable like average oxygen content in the blood is going to drastically change this.
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User avatar #172 - englman (05/11/2013) [-]
Very understandable.
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User avatar #113 - englman (05/09/2013) [-]
I just don't even social network. I have a Twitter but I can't even find it with Google lol (I never use it anyway). I've only found several pictures of me at all on the Internet and they're buried deep in other peoples abandoned MySpace pages:)
#118 - ichbinlecher (05/09/2013) [-]
I have it because it is a necessary way to communicate with several people - as in they don't have other points of contact. It is irksome, but beneficial. I will get rid of it when the time comes.
User avatar #172 - englman (05/11/2013) [-]
Very understandable.
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