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latest user's comments

#418263 - Picture  [+] (1 reply) 07/11/2015 on TINDER DATE WITH ADMIN +5
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#418341 - shadovfox (07/11/2015) [-]
why do people go with pants like that.... they are unpractical, and it looks like you have shit yourself...
#38 - Thats an actual restaurant They have one in the MoA  [+] (2 replies) 12/01/2014 on Citation needed +2
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#70 - fistings (12/01/2014) [-]
MoA? (Mall of America?) there was one in denver when I lived in Colorado
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#51 - herecomesjohnny (12/01/2014) [-]
yeah i think he meant "making the fictional restaurant from the movie real"
#6 - Metal bender 08/11/2014 on Wham! 0
#2 - where girls can wear more clothes! said every g…  [+] (47 replies) 07/27/2014 on Kids today +7
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#26 - citruslord (07/27/2014) [-]
I've played a ton of mmo's and I don't remember many that force you to dress slutty. Even Tera had balance with that. The only real offender that comes to mind is Scarlet Blade, and that game sacrificed literally every aspect of gameplay in exchange for tits.
Been playing FFXIV recently and having a good time with my fully armored female warrior.
#11 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
also, wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armageddon_armor max level guild wars 2 armor
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#27 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Google image search TERA
#29 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
your point? that it has as you would say "slutty" female armor? odd, it seems like a game marketed towards men, is trying to appeal to men. i mean, that's like cosmopolitan, or E trying to appeal towards women, odd right? but, going to an argument i used against you earlier, that's an eastern MMO, they tend to be more slutty to try and attract people to try the game any way possible, not through a good game, but either controversy or sex appeal
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#32 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
And thus we should decry it.

My point is simply that he is providing an example of a good MMO, I am providing an example of a bad one in this situation.
#36 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
do you really want to use a game that uses cheap marketing and sex to get people to play a decent example of your point, it's like trying to explain Christianity to someone by showing them the WBC.
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#39 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
That's what I've been talking about this whole time. Using cheap sex as a gimmick for sales at the expense of the female demographic.
#41 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
and those games are shit, its like me telling you not to go to the middle east because SOME are terrorists. you cant say a beach sucks because some part of it was ugly.
#5 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
and i have a dream where men are no longer portraid as buff and good looking, oh wait, IT FUCKING FANTASY
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#8 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
men with huge muscles = male power fantasy
women with no clothes = male sexual fantasy

men with huge muscles = female sexual fantasy
women with no clothes = female... awkward... fuck... well... whatever. Nothing empowering about being forced to be a slut.
#15 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
Men work out to look good and attract women. Women put makeup on and stay in shape to attract men. If you don't think looking sexy in a bikini is a huge power fantasy for women I suggest you get a girlfriend with an average body type and take notes every time she asks about her shape. If anything, they are more obsessed with their good looks than men are.
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#18 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Also: you imply women can't look attractive in functional armour.

It can still be form fitting. It just doesn't need to have hooker boots.
#24 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
That's like Spartans wearing sixpack armor. Few of them actually had sixpacks, they just plastered it on the armor so they'd look good.

Thing is, being sexy means being daring. Being locked inside a cage of metal doesn't make females look attractive at all, forms or not. They will still remain big and clunky. This works fairly well for males because being broad and big is a part of masculinity, while being smaller in size and having curves is part of looking like an attractive female.

As far as women go in MMORPS, I've played with several, both in ones making women look like trophies and those where they can wear functional armor. Most of them were around average, and all of them undisputedly made sexy looking characters with great forms, despite not having similar looks. Why? Because you can make what you want. Even in the games where they could wear heavy armor, they chose lighter, more revealing, and I saw the same for almost every female character I came across. Women in general don't want to be husky and brutish.

Now, I'm sure they could add more options. Nothing wrong with that apart from some lost time and resources. But frankly, I rarely come across anyone who complains about it. Some make jokes, but they don't go mad. If you don't like the game, don't buy it. If women truly had cared about it, they would boycott the game and send a letter of complaint as the sales go down, and the developers would take note of things. Opinions don't matter in a business, sales do. And if the opinions aren't strong enough to affect sales, the developers don't care.
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#25 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
I fail to grasp what's wrong with the spartan situation. Seriously, I bet if women were able to wear proper full plate with massive breast pockets it'd still be a big improvement.

Then give them a choice. Those women who want to prance around in their underwear shouldn't be discriminated against for sure... but women who actually want to wear decent looking armour that is a bit more conservative should have the option. You can still be slender in armour. Seriously, look at Hilde or Leona. They still have feminine figures despite being clothed.

The issue is not with women looking sexy, but their outfits forcing them to parade that sexiness. Your amazing peer reviewed study on 7 women just proves a contingent of women are fine with the lighter look. Does that mean offering the more conservative option should not be a thing?

They won't buy it. It would be nice to increase female participation in gaming. If they're forced into the "don't buy it" mentality then they are rather limited in their options. And trust me, the male demographic is more than enough to keep game companies afloat so the "don't buy it" mentality won't really change business practices.

If you wan to foster greater female participation in your hobby, provide an image of your hobby that doesn't portray women as sexual objects to the average observer. Bikini armour is not empowering. Some girls may like it, but many do not.
#30 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
The Spartans were cheating in their looks to intimidate their enemies, but they knew deep down they would never be swole as zyzz. What is even the point of having breastplates unless you desperately need people to know you're a woman?

Leona wears clothes with plates in certain locations. It's about as useful as drinking from a cup with holes in it. Clothed, sure, women can still look feminine with clothes. But if you ask the LoL community who the prettiest woman in League is, it would come down to Nidalee or some other slutskank.

There were actually 13 of them, one being a self-proclaimed feminist, apparently, though I doubt her commitment to that.

But they do buy it. That's the very thing. Same as when people scream about EAs policies, and how they will never buy a product from them again. 2 months and they're back. Turns out it wasn't that big of a concern anyway. And while MMORPGS are dominated by men, you don't want sales to falter. It's not like men will stop playing it because the women can now dress up more modest. Even if it's a 2% sales difference, the developers will seriously consider that.
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#33 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
The same reason you'd wear a battle bikini. To show your femininity. It's just a bit more conservative about it. Implying the presence of breasts rather than shoving the breasts and cleavage in your face.

Her armour still covers almost all of her skin. That much is considered a blessing. If even that much were a guarantee this wouldn't be a problem.

13 women, wow you're really onto something.

They don't buy it. That's why women aren't greatly represented within anything beyond the casual gamer community. Angry birds don't offend their sensitivities.
#40 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
Yeah, no. Leona's armor covers her chest, shoulders, forearms and crotch. The rest is gold plated cloth or light material. She also wears heels, by the way.

When 100% of the women I've played MMORPS with, having various looks, personalities, affiliations and culture, don't complain about the lack of armor, it stands for something. None of them ever met each other, yet they shared the same idea.

Well, 40% of all active WoW-users are female, with over 420 000 registered users, so there's that. But by all means, it still makes them a minority, if you say so. This isn't the 90s, you know.
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#44 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Still much better than most female armour. See, I'm not even a crazy radical. If women are given this much I'd be cheering! You're just proving how hard it is to find well represented women.

It could have more to do with your taste in female friends than women in general. Anecdotal evidence is never treated as legitimate.

WoW has 100 million+ players in its entirety... around 10 million are currently subscribed... methinks you've been reading bullshit-facts...
#47 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
Most games do have this kind of armor, give or take. What kind of nefarious games have you been playing?

These were girls I came across while playing, and some IRL ones. It's not based on my tastes in female friends, because half of them were incredibly dumb, rude and/or pretentious. But they were clear contrasts to each other, but at least none of them complained about male gaming patriarchy.


You see, the thing is, it's possible to look it up. Although I should've mentioned the 400 000 number was for the US, my bad.
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#17 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Good looks, not being a whore. Can you honestly say that women in MMO's aren't made more for the pleasure of men than women? What woman would appreciate the high level gear more or less leaving her avatar buck naked? Very few. They work hard to look good, yes. So make them look good. Fashionably, maybe give them sexy alternatives, but provide options for more conservative looks. Like I mentioned in the comments below. Men can have half naked muscly gear like a barbarian, or they can have full body robes like a mage. Women need to be sluts before any class related wardrobe is assigned. That's the problem.
#20 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
Most MMO's are targeted towards a male audience, so what you see in the game will appeal more to men because most gamers are men. you don't see Things targeted towards a female audience bending to what men want because they are not trying to get men to buy the game. and in every MMO that i have made a female character in, there is a regular gear set in there, but you only see the slutty ones because those are the ones you want to see. you want to see them so you can complain. its the anita sarcesian effect of starting with a conclusion then working backwards
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#34 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
They shouldn't be targetted only to males.

There are regular sets here and there, but the fact that slut sets exist as mandatory armours with no alternative is the problem.

Don't compare me with the raving lunatic that is anita sarkasian. I want a more welcoming community for women, not to reverse the gender prejudice against men.
#38 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
everything is marketed to a certain type of person. if everything appealed to everyone, there would be no variety, just a bunch of non-offensive grey blobs. No decent game only has one set of high level armor, none. and if you wanted a welcoming community, would you really want to appeal to the people who get "triggered" at the drop of a hat? And lets say you make it a welcoming community for women, how many women are so offended by a suit of slutty armor? and if that pair of slutty armor makes them drop the game because they were playing a crappy game that offered no alternative, thats fine by me.
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#42 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Thus gaming remains a boys club of chauvanists.

Being inclusive isn't the same as censorship. My god, you're pretending like adding conservative alternatives is removing content... You'd make better arguments saying the extra coding is too much hassle like the dicks at ubisoft.

>Implying only hypersensitive tumblrbitches are annoyed by the treatment of women as sex objects in MMO's
#45 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
.....what? because things are marketed towards men, hey are now chauvanistic? again, for the 4th fucking time, your arguments have been worded in a way that makes it seem you want to remove all the slutty armor. and to your last comment, the only MMO's that objectify women in the way you state not only do the same thing to men, but are also generally cheap cash grabs by crappy companies. you are either the best troll ever, or are really that dumb to assume that there is a male intention to exclude girls form games, because of how marketing works. good night, i am tired of arguing against a brick wall that can only regurgitate his/her favorite blog and news site.
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#48 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
It's quite chauvanist to create an entire market designed solely for men at the expense of women.

ALTERNATIVE ALTERNATIVE ALTERNATIVE ALTERNATIVE. FUCKING CONTROL + F AND PUT IN ALTERNATIVE AND NEXT TO EVERY SINGLE ONE OUTSIDE THIS COMMENT YOU'LL SEE ME USE THE WORD "MODEST OPTION". Folks like you who like to twist other people's arguments for yourself are the worst to argue with. You're only arguing this point because I called you out on your bullshit opinion at the start of this debate and you're emberassed that you had no legitimate comeback.

"Not only do the same thing to men." Rarely do they put nearly as much effort into turning men into hookers. Remember, this is the boy's club, right?

The male intention is not to exclude girls but to sexually gratify themselves at the expense of girls. Men don't want girls to feel bad, they just really like bikini mages in hooker boots. The fact that this bothers women isn't their purpose, but it's the result.

You're the one who makes it chauvanist by trying to either claim this is a good thing or that the industry developing this way is totally okay and we shouldn't try to be more inclusive at all.

Oh and to quote you. "i am tired of arguing against a brick wall that can only regurgitate his/her favorite blog and news site." Good night
#55 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
also, there is the tumblr feminist i knew was hiding somewhere in there. not every man wants to be portrayed as some 300 lb. muscle bound, brain dead fuck. and where is this "male intention"? also, to go back to TV, girls don't want to make men feel stupid, they just want to be the superior one in the family.

never did i claim the Marketing bias for video games was a good thing, but just a thing that happens because market researchers look at sales. way to look at things from only one perspective you sad, little person
#51 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
then its sexist for E and cosmopolitan to focus on marketing to females at the expense of marketing towards men, and disney for portraying husbands and sons/brothers as bumbling morons, but daughters as smart and resourceful and overall better then their male counterparts. ADDING ONE WORD DOESN'T CHANGE YOUR FUCKING TONE, IF I TYPE CONDESCENDING BUT INCLUDE THE WORD SORRY IN THEIR DOESN'T MAKE IT NOT CONDESCENDING, TYPING LIKE YOU TYPE, BUT ADDING ONE WORD DOESN'T CHANGE THE FUCKING MEANING ALL THAT MUCH
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#52 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
I thought you were "tired of arguing against a brick wall that can only regurgitate his/her favorite blog and news site."

It appears you're just some sad little bitch who is obsessed with getting in the last word so he feels like he has won.

Go the fuck to sleep.
#10 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
so you are saying that a muscled man is a male power fantasy? what about people who value brains over brawn, or being able to lead rather than hit hard? why is it that a scrawny mage is preferred by some over a giant man? a power fantasy can be anything, sure, and your remark on the female perspective of no cloths implies there are no lesbians, or that women see their own bodies as awkward, and wouldn't being nude and still being able to kick as be a power fantasy for a woman, that even with nothing they still can succeed be a power fantasy. by the standards of tumblr feminists we are both sexist, me for pointing out double standards and you for implying the female sees her own body as a shaming point. also keep thumbing me down, please, totally proves your point (not you)
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#13 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
>what about the people who value brains over brawn

They would still like to be smart and swol. You rarely have your mmo character sacrifice intelligence in exchange for looking like a greek god.

> Why is the scrawny mage preferred over the huge man?

Why must every female class have the optional title of "slutty"? You can be the slutty mage... the slutty barbarian... the slutty ranger... You're really only strengthening my point. Men get to live their power fantasies, women sorta get a power fantasy but at the cost of sluttiness.

> your perspective on no cloths implies there are no lesbians.

You're creating a sexual fantasy and calling it a power fantasy?

>or that women see their own bodies as awkward?

They have no choice but to be sluts. They aren't even being sexy about it in most games. Their clothing can be as bad as a few bones covering their nips and snatch. You call that empowering? ESPECIALLY with the lack of alternative clothing options for those who prefer a less obviously demeaning outfit? Remember before, men can be mages and barbarians... women need to be sluts before they are any class in an mmo.

>wouldn't being nude and being able to kick ass still be a power fantasy?

#1 go talk to a girl and ask her if she'd like to be bare naked kicking ass, or in appropriate gear kicking ass. #2 She has no choice but to be naked.

I didn't thumb you down.

Seriously, is it that hard to just do what dark souls does and create armour that looks normal on both sexes?
#19 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
1)True, but that's the same for every gender, I'm just going on your comment on the body being a male power fantasy when realistically its a standard for beauty in modern day.
2)Every female class doesn't have that title, the Elder Scrolls, Guild Wars 2, Mount and Blade, Warhammer 40k and Fantasy, Warmachine, nearly all Western RPG's the list goes on
3)I brought up Lesbians because of how you worded your argument, you made men with muscles a sexual fantasy for women but nude women an emBARE-ASSing (haha) thing for women, implying no woman would like it
4) See number 2, there is a choice. And at the same time as this, there are things like a target audience. Most MMO's are played by men *(sure there was a study that showed 45% of gamers were female, but if you were to remove "casual" games from the list and didn't count cellphones as platforms like the study did, the number would drop hard, not saying girls don't play games mind you. )* with a target audience you design to appeal to them, yes some people will be turned off by certain aspects, they don't design slasher flicks for people who are afraid of blood for example.
5) again, she has a choice see number 2. also the root of this statement comes from the fact that MMO armor is scant and has no substance, but look at the cloths most girls in your average high school will wear. Jeans with no real pockets, smaller shirts that tend to show off belly and shoulders, leggings and short shorts, translate that into armor, and it sucks. but look what your average boy wears in high school jeans, shorts, and T-shirts, translated into armor is fairly normal.
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#22 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
1) good
2) good examples. Does that mean we shouldn't still decry it when it occurs? Because trust me it still does occur.
3) So you provide an exception to the rule. A minority. Same could be said about gay guys being the opposite of my statement. I can't make a list for every cis trans bi queer dragon kin demisexual potato enthusiast y'know?
4) There is no choice if the game decides not to be progressive. Perhaps women would be more likely to play MMO's if they didn't feel like they had to be sluts in a large number of them.
5) I like how you keep pretending that the existence of games where women are represented well means that there is a choice for women in all MMO's. That's illogical. Oh now we're insulting female fashion, eh? Well here's the thing: HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS AREN'T PALADINS AND RANGERS FIGHTING DEADLY MONSTERS. Do female soldiers wear booty shorts in kandahar? No. They wear fatigues, just like men. They wear the appropriate clothing for the task at hand. They don't wear bikinis.

You've gone from saying it's perfectly fine for women to be represented as sluts to saying women aren't even forced to use slutty armour on characters so that's a slight improvement. Now just to let you realize that being able to name off a dozen or so games where women are treated as equals instead of sexual objects does not invalidate the legitimacy of the claim that a very large chunk of the industry does not do this.
#28 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
2) we should decry it, but not without pointing out that it goes both ways, why is it that when i make a mage, or want to make an older mentor, or a more average character I can't? He must be buff to the extreme in most games?
3)A minority, exactly. Women in video games are a minority. Any form of entertainment won't try to conform to the minority. Not saying it's right, its just the way it is
4) Most women Don't play video games given the chance. it's not that the video games alienate them, but because women mature out of the "games" stage earlier. it's not sexism, its like how most men don't want to shop for clothes, both genders have different goals at different times in their lives.
5) Video games are an escape from reality, BUT people like what is familiar. when playing games, people tend to try and look like themselves, they want to emulate themselves doing amazing things in another world. the more similar that character can be to themselves the better. Your right, they aren't paladins, but they are pretending to be, and the more familiar the clothing is to their own clothes (see my previous clothing argument) the more they will immerse themselves into the character. But, while the same armor would be good, think about it, if you are role playing, a girl and a guy in full plate armor look the exact same, the scant armor isn't because of sexism, but to better define a characters gender. this is more so a point in games with many characters on screen at once.

When have I once said the slutty representation is okay?And I would rather have the choice to dress slutty then to remove all armor like that because choice is a major part in any situation, to remove the choice in either direction is bad. What of the large commercial industry where husbands are portrayed as dumb and useless while the wife is smart and in control? what about Disney channel where the son is a bumbling moron while the daughter is smart and resourceful? where is the equality there?
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#31 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
2) Now you're saying mages are buff? If that's where you wanna go with this, I have no issue with you wanting basic options of thin vs bulky vs buff.
3) I'm talking a minority among women, not among gamers. So we're just going to exclude 50% of the population from an activity because very little of that population is part of the activity right now?
4) Nice bro science.
5) Do you often see girls walking around your school in bikinis... or hooker boots... etc. etc.? You know, besides the sluts...

"wouldn't being nude and still being able to kick as be a power fantasy for a woman"

When did I say remove all slutty armour? I've been saying add conservative alternatives this whole time.
#35 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
2) you missed the point, gender stereotypes go both ways
3)No, but we don't market things to a minority. all of the entertainment industry wants to get payed, and appealing to the lowest common denominator wont make you as much, not saying it's okay, but you wouldn't try to sell action to women and romance to men because of statistics that have been collected for over the past 100 years. just because it isn't marketed and designed around you, though, doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, one just has to learn that skimpy female armor is just armor, not a statement against women everywhere.
4)yeah, bro science, totally not an ignorant statement.
5)I can tell you only read either a little bit of what i wrote, or just got stuck on what i said earlier. its for immersion, the more female a character looks, the more a female will relate to said character. the hooker boots and bikinis are an easy cop-out way to show what gender that character is to other players and to the person playing.

you just went back to one of the first things that i typed, The way you are talking about the subject comes off as wanting to remove all slutty option leaving only similar, if not the same armor for every gender.
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#37 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
No, you missed the point. I don't disagree. You're just upset because men aren't complaining about the stereotype while women are. Women are receiving accomodation when you feel men should to. That's fine by me. I don't think you should say women shouldn't be accomodated just because men aren't though. That's the same mentality of taking an eye for an eye. "We can't have what we want so neither should they!"

50% of the population is female. They are not a minority. The gamer population of females is a minority. Normal businessfolk call that an untapped market.

Sorry, would you like me to call your statement ignorant? I figured calling it bro science was implying it clearly enough. Your statement is ignorant.

And for women who don't identify with feminity via hooker boots and bikinis as every day outfits? You know, the majority of the female population that aren't barsluts?

I went back to the first thing you typed because my statement was "You've gone from saying it's perfectly fine for women to be represented as sluts to saying women aren't even forced to use slutty armour on characters so that's a slight improvement..." Key words there "You've gone from". It was your initial views. Of course I'm gonna reference your first comments when talking about your initial views.

clearly you don't read anything I write because you're still pretending I want to remove options rather than provide more options for a more inclusive community.
#43 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
i'm not upset because men aren't complaining, I'm upset because the women that are our complaining are acting like it only happens to them. I am not saying that they SHOULDN'T be accommodated, but that they AREN'T accommodated because men and women aren't the same. they develop at different rates, have different goals in life at different times. THAT is the biggest reason why gaming is largely male dominated, because most girls aged 15-30 aren't as into video games as they are career and education centric, while men become more career centric as they age. your "bro science" comment is ignorant because it ignore multiple studies by men and women and many different universities. and I have ready every one of your posts in reply to me, the way you go about the argument, you seem to want there to be no more slutty armor in your first 5 or so posts. since you haven't given me any other info on that stance until now, that's what I've had to assume.
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#46 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
So because you don't like that women don't acknowledge your problems you don't feel you should acknowledge their problems?

Post some of those marvelous studies broskie!

Oh and time to call you out on some bullshit!

"maybe give them sexy alternatives, but provide options for more conservative looks" -> one of my earliest replies
"ESPECIALLY with the lack of alternative clothing options for those who prefer a less obviously demeaning outfit?" -> the next reply after

I generally tried to include the words "conservative ALTERNATIVE" in every reply. Alternative. You know as in an optional other set.
#49 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
no, the way it seems to work is that women act like they are the only gender with any negative stereotypes and conveniently forget double standards in their own arguments.
look at the wordings of your posts, only adding alternative AND ONLY alternative while keeping the tone of your writing is what causes confusion, if i give you a condecending reply but include the word sorry in it does not change the fucking tone.
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#50 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
I thought you were "tired of arguing against a brick wall that can only regurgitate his/her favorite blog and news site."

Feel free to stop replying.
#53 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
It's kind of like watching a train wreck, you can't really look away
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#54 - Sethorein (07/27/2014) [-]
Said the sad little chauvanist, depressed at women wanting characers with more clothing in his games.
#56 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
.....what? I don't want clothed women in my games? odd, being that most of the games i play have fully clothed women, but since you seem to assume that i am defending games that do this despite frequently calling games that do shit. be careful, your tumblr side is showing, feel free to stop using chauvinist, because equal rights wont happen as long as you want to keep generalizing people who oppose FEMinist movement of female superiority, because they support the EQUIList movement, you know that radical idea that everyone is equil.
#12 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
People have their preference, but most males agree that having defined muscles is a plus. I always make my characters looking relatively fit at the very least. Even wise mages.
#14 - darkjack (07/27/2014) [-]
and most females agree that having a well defined shape is a plus. not trying to be rude, just defending my point becuase i'm tired of the double standard bull shit
#16 - comradewinter (07/27/2014) [-]
I don't disagree. Women are, for the most par,t more concscious about their shape than men are. I've played MMORPS with some girls I know, and despite them having bodies and looks varying from below average to slightly above average, they all made characters with good forms and pretty faces. Myself, I made a rogue character with dark skin, eyepatch and scars, but shit I still gave him a desirable body.
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