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goldeye

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Gender: male
Age: 25
Date Signed Up:8/22/2011
Last Login:3/27/2015
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Times Content Favorited:254 times
Total Comments Made:49
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latest user's comments

#363 - Not on all light armor. Keep in mind I am talking only about t…  [+] (1 new reply) 03/04/2015 on U.S. can see what Ivan can't 0
User avatar #365 - itembox (03/04/2015) [-]
Okay.
#344 - I'm happy to argue this with you all day but let's to it like …  [+] (1 new reply) 03/04/2015 on U.S. can see what Ivan can't 0
User avatar #456 - Onemanretardpack (03/05/2015) [-]
You seem to single in on the effect of mass, because that's the main counterpoint of your argument. So, lets start with kinetic energy first. Mass x speed= energy. 22 is not that fast, and has little mass. So lets replace the mass with one and speed with 2, because I can't be bothered to look up the average speed and mass of commercial 22 loads; so 1 x 2= 2. Then compare it to something like .45 acp. Which has huge mass and relatively slower speeds. So slow speed, plus big mass. Lets give the speed a 1, and mass a 3; 1 x 3= 3. Now lets take a break from handguns go to rifle rounds for a second. 7.62x39 has comparitively higher speeds than both 22 and 45, and a good amount of mass. Lets give velocity a 3 and mass a 2. 3 x 2=6. Most 7.62x39 loads will pierce soft armor (which is what cops use). While my examples are hardly scientific, it gives you a good idea of what is needed as far as terminal ballistics are involved to penetrate armor.

Now, setting aside all of that, lets take a look at bullet composition. Almost all 22 ammo is made either entirely of lead or a lead nose. Lead is a relatively soft material and will break apart at the speeds you get from firing it from a gun at a solid target. Most commercial rifle/pistol rounds will have either a copper or bimetal jacket with a lead core. This will still not penetrate armor as the jacket is used primarily to prevent fouling in the weapon, and to keep the bullet from just exploding upon impact and underpenetrating. What is under attack now, are rounds that have steel penetrators in them. Little metal rods that run from the tip of the round on down. Because all barrels in all modern firearms are made of steel, you cannot have a solid steel bullet, because it will wear the hell out of the barrel. So a good workaround is to have a steel penetrator in the round. On impact, the jacket and core will shed, letting the penetrator pierce the armor and allowing spalling ( fragments thrown out from the impact of the round), to enter the hole and cause damage along with the penetrator

All of this amounts to your theory of 22 "literally drilling through armor" to be complete and total hogwash. It is not physically possible. If for any other reason than the fact that the impact of the round striking the target is to fast that it would be impossible for the spinning round to make any effect
#333 - Bullet proof armor works by using the rounds momentum and mass…  [+] (6 new replies) 03/04/2015 on U.S. can see what Ivan can't +1
User avatar #353 - itembox (03/04/2015) [-]
What about the ceramic plates?
User avatar #363 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
Not on all light armor. Keep in mind I am talking only about the most basic lightest armor. Any type of metal or metal-like material will stop small rounds in their tracks.
User avatar #365 - itembox (03/04/2015) [-]
Okay.
User avatar #334 - Onemanretardpack (03/04/2015) [-]
That's so completely not true, it's hilarious. You NEED mass to penetrate even light armor. 22 does not have the mass, nor the speed or composition to penetrate light armor. There are almost no pistol rounds that will penetrate any kind of armor, and the only one I can think of that can is 5.7 with a steel penetrator (which is already illegal). Please stop spreading disinfo
User avatar #344 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
I'm happy to argue this with you all day but let's to it like adults. Yes, a .22 has very little mass or velocity. However there is a lot more to a bullet's effectiveness than just mass. Just like there is a lot more to the effectiveness of armor than how big the thing hitting it is.
User avatar #456 - Onemanretardpack (03/05/2015) [-]
You seem to single in on the effect of mass, because that's the main counterpoint of your argument. So, lets start with kinetic energy first. Mass x speed= energy. 22 is not that fast, and has little mass. So lets replace the mass with one and speed with 2, because I can't be bothered to look up the average speed and mass of commercial 22 loads; so 1 x 2= 2. Then compare it to something like .45 acp. Which has huge mass and relatively slower speeds. So slow speed, plus big mass. Lets give the speed a 1, and mass a 3; 1 x 3= 3. Now lets take a break from handguns go to rifle rounds for a second. 7.62x39 has comparitively higher speeds than both 22 and 45, and a good amount of mass. Lets give velocity a 3 and mass a 2. 3 x 2=6. Most 7.62x39 loads will pierce soft armor (which is what cops use). While my examples are hardly scientific, it gives you a good idea of what is needed as far as terminal ballistics are involved to penetrate armor.

Now, setting aside all of that, lets take a look at bullet composition. Almost all 22 ammo is made either entirely of lead or a lead nose. Lead is a relatively soft material and will break apart at the speeds you get from firing it from a gun at a solid target. Most commercial rifle/pistol rounds will have either a copper or bimetal jacket with a lead core. This will still not penetrate armor as the jacket is used primarily to prevent fouling in the weapon, and to keep the bullet from just exploding upon impact and underpenetrating. What is under attack now, are rounds that have steel penetrators in them. Little metal rods that run from the tip of the round on down. Because all barrels in all modern firearms are made of steel, you cannot have a solid steel bullet, because it will wear the hell out of the barrel. So a good workaround is to have a steel penetrator in the round. On impact, the jacket and core will shed, letting the penetrator pierce the armor and allowing spalling ( fragments thrown out from the impact of the round), to enter the hole and cause damage along with the penetrator

All of this amounts to your theory of 22 "literally drilling through armor" to be complete and total hogwash. It is not physically possible. If for any other reason than the fact that the impact of the round striking the target is to fast that it would be impossible for the spinning round to make any effect
#306 - The smaller mass allows the rifling to have a greater effect o…  [+] (2 new replies) 03/04/2015 on U.S. can see what Ivan can't 0
#465 - turbanmasher (03/07/2015) [-]
.30-06 bullets are heavier and have a larger diameter, so even though it may be spinning slow it carries more rotational energy. Also most .22LR (I assume thats what you were talking about) are hollow points which will mushroom on contact with armour. Even round nose will mushroom a lot more than a copper jacketed .30 cal round which is more pointed and harder.
User avatar #311 - compared (03/04/2015) [-]
Thanks for another comparison.
#218 - A .22 spins so fast that it literally drills through light arm…  [+] (15 new replies) 03/04/2015 on U.S. can see what Ivan can't +2
User avatar #457 - Onemanretardpack (03/05/2015) [-]
Also, literally the only rounds that can't penetrate soft armor are the rounds from 38 special on down, and that's because there's no commercial market for special armor piercing rounds because of the ATF banning them for civilian use.
User avatar #307 - Onemanretardpack (03/04/2015) [-]
>spins so fast that it literally drills through light armor
Nigger what?
#333 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
Bullet proof armor works by using the rounds momentum and mass against it. The whole point is to keep the round from entering the person, so while you wont have a gun hole you will still have a nasty bruise. However, because a .22 is so light and spins so fast it can spin its way through the first layer of Kevlar, which is the only actual "bullet proof" part of a standard vest. The foam after the Kevlar serves to disperse energy from the round however it doesn't do much to stop a bullets momentum, so the .22 can keep going into to last layer of Kevlar, which is rendered useless from the first hole the bullet caused.
User avatar #353 - itembox (03/04/2015) [-]
What about the ceramic plates?
User avatar #363 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
Not on all light armor. Keep in mind I am talking only about the most basic lightest armor. Any type of metal or metal-like material will stop small rounds in their tracks.
User avatar #365 - itembox (03/04/2015) [-]
Okay.
User avatar #334 - Onemanretardpack (03/04/2015) [-]
That's so completely not true, it's hilarious. You NEED mass to penetrate even light armor. 22 does not have the mass, nor the speed or composition to penetrate light armor. There are almost no pistol rounds that will penetrate any kind of armor, and the only one I can think of that can is 5.7 with a steel penetrator (which is already illegal). Please stop spreading disinfo
User avatar #344 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
I'm happy to argue this with you all day but let's to it like adults. Yes, a .22 has very little mass or velocity. However there is a lot more to a bullet's effectiveness than just mass. Just like there is a lot more to the effectiveness of armor than how big the thing hitting it is.
User avatar #456 - Onemanretardpack (03/05/2015) [-]
You seem to single in on the effect of mass, because that's the main counterpoint of your argument. So, lets start with kinetic energy first. Mass x speed= energy. 22 is not that fast, and has little mass. So lets replace the mass with one and speed with 2, because I can't be bothered to look up the average speed and mass of commercial 22 loads; so 1 x 2= 2. Then compare it to something like .45 acp. Which has huge mass and relatively slower speeds. So slow speed, plus big mass. Lets give the speed a 1, and mass a 3; 1 x 3= 3. Now lets take a break from handguns go to rifle rounds for a second. 7.62x39 has comparitively higher speeds than both 22 and 45, and a good amount of mass. Lets give velocity a 3 and mass a 2. 3 x 2=6. Most 7.62x39 loads will pierce soft armor (which is what cops use). While my examples are hardly scientific, it gives you a good idea of what is needed as far as terminal ballistics are involved to penetrate armor.

Now, setting aside all of that, lets take a look at bullet composition. Almost all 22 ammo is made either entirely of lead or a lead nose. Lead is a relatively soft material and will break apart at the speeds you get from firing it from a gun at a solid target. Most commercial rifle/pistol rounds will have either a copper or bimetal jacket with a lead core. This will still not penetrate armor as the jacket is used primarily to prevent fouling in the weapon, and to keep the bullet from just exploding upon impact and underpenetrating. What is under attack now, are rounds that have steel penetrators in them. Little metal rods that run from the tip of the round on down. Because all barrels in all modern firearms are made of steel, you cannot have a solid steel bullet, because it will wear the hell out of the barrel. So a good workaround is to have a steel penetrator in the round. On impact, the jacket and core will shed, letting the penetrator pierce the armor and allowing spalling ( fragments thrown out from the impact of the round), to enter the hole and cause damage along with the penetrator

All of this amounts to your theory of 22 "literally drilling through armor" to be complete and total hogwash. It is not physically possible. If for any other reason than the fact that the impact of the round striking the target is to fast that it would be impossible for the spinning round to make any effect
#246 - turbanmasher (03/04/2015) [-]
A 9mm is better at penetrating armour than 44 magnum is.
#248 - turbanmasher (03/04/2015) [-]
And I'd like to know how you figure a .22 spins any faster than any other ammo, considering twist rates are about the same.
User avatar #306 - goldeye (03/04/2015) [-]
The smaller mass allows the rifling to have a greater effect on the bullet. Compared to a 30-6 which, being much larger, takes more energy to spin. However a vast majority of the expanding gas in the breach pushes only forward, not letting the heaver bullet catch on the grooves as much as it would need to spin as fast as a .22, which requires very little energy to spin so the .22 needs less action with the grooves to spin at a higher rate.
#465 - turbanmasher (03/07/2015) [-]
.30-06 bullets are heavier and have a larger diameter, so even though it may be spinning slow it carries more rotational energy. Also most .22LR (I assume thats what you were talking about) are hollow points which will mushroom on contact with armour. Even round nose will mushroom a lot more than a copper jacketed .30 cal round which is more pointed and harder.
User avatar #311 - compared (03/04/2015) [-]
Thanks for another comparison.
User avatar #222 - compared (03/04/2015) [-]
Thanks for using a comparison, hope you are well.
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