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flameprintz

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Date Signed Up:8/24/2011
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latest user's comments

#19 - You're right, training as a young child doesn't fully explain …  [+] (15 new replies) 04/28/2016 on fact +2
#20 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
She closed her eyes, said "the force" and suddenly knew how to fight with a lightsaber? You can't just meditate years of formal training into yourself.
#105 - boarderlinegreat (04/28/2016) [-]
There were other force users who could use the force intuitively and with some 30 mins of instructions, such as Luke in the new hope. This is nothing new.
#104 - boarderlinegreat has deleted their comment.
#84 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
A form of battle meditation? Consider this: she didn't aquire skills but was able to react instinctively to kylos' movements etc. Better reflex and some form of precognition about kylo's intentions. on the outside looks like a sudden boost in skills but in the inside boils down to better reflex and intuition.
#22 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Well, the Force isn't a very strictly defined magic system is it? I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying we're trying to solve a puzzle with pieces missing and without the box. I hope these things will be explained, and I argue that these conundrums make her character more interesting, since we really don't know who she is. I'm saying there might be a satisfying explanation to it, so we shouldn't just hate her because the writers wanted her to be a mystery.
#29 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
You can't fix her character in my eyes. I know I'm being stubborn - but I'm still excited for the movies to come and I plan to thoroughly enjoy them. But her character is broken. Because either:
A) she stays as powerful as she is, and persists as a Mary Sue. Or
B) they nerf her, and spend the next movie unlocking her hidden potential, making her even more of a Mary Sue.
#77 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
Option C: She goes dark, loses some powers, gains others, kylo ren becomes good after killing his father.
#31 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I'm just being optimistic about it.
#33 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
I'm extremely optimistic of the movies to come: just not Rey.
Though I do admit having a female protagonist for the first two major Star Wars releases in a decade new trilogy and Rogue Squadron is fucking pandering...
#68 - SemiAnon (04/28/2016) [-]
oh, there it is.

muh pandering
User avatar
#23 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
There's something exactly like what Rey did. Battle Meditation. Qui-Gon does it in EP1. Not really a mystery as to what it was.
#24 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Except Qui Gonn was a Jedi Master while she is a scavenger. Makes sense when he does it, not when she does it. Hence why people are aggro, and why I am intrigued.
User avatar
#25 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
Other force users have shown much more power with no training. Palps and Bane were exceptional users when they got emotional. Palps slaughtered his entire family and their guards by himself with no training. Bane crushed his father's heart.
#27 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
True but that was in EU, which is no longer canon and thus not very reliable. However, I was kind of assuming that a similar thing was happening with Rey.
User avatar
#30 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
It's still partially canon. Legends is basically stories about the past, they could be entirely made up or entirely true. They just made the Legends canon so if they contradict something they can just say the stories aren't true there.
#17 - You have some valid points, but I'm just trying to give the be…  [+] (17 new replies) 04/28/2016 on fact +3
#18 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
There's no amount of training a 5 year old could have received to validate all of this. And really, it's the inexplicable emotional connection everyone feels toward her that makes her a Mary Sue:
Finn "the way you looked at me..." when the only looks she had given him were "why is this Droid shouting about you", "stop grabbing me I don't need you to lead me", and "seriously hand me the right fucking tape".
Leia "my husband just died, but come here deary I know you're heartbroken after knowing him for all of a flight and a half".
And Kylo "you're not completely defenseless you should be the padawan I take to completely usurp the current power dynamic.
Everyone loves her for no reason and she's fucking amazing at everything she tries. Literally the Star Wars version of the original Star Trek Mary Sue.
I loved the movie and I am stoked for the rest if them. But I hate Rey. Love Finn, love Leia, love every other character in the story. Fucking can't stand Rey.
#19 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
You're right, training as a young child doesn't fully explain her burst in skill, but something changed in the moment when she closed her eyes. It's a mystery and that's what it's supposed to be. As for the emotional connections, well Finn seems to grow emotionally attached to people rather quickly, note how he and Poe are buddies after they reunite. Granted that bond probably formed due to the intense situations they faced together, but the same argument can be made for Finn and Rey. Rey and Leia, well, they were kind of comforting each other. Plus, Leia is much older and is more experienced with losing people she cares about, while Rey was not. Kylo Ren had a sudden change of heart about her because he knows who she is. In the book, when she called the lightsaber, he literally said, "it is you." A line they did not include in the movie for some reason. There is something special about her. I trust the writers will provide a good explanation for all this stuff. But we will see. Maybe she will just end up just being a Mary Sue.
#20 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
She closed her eyes, said "the force" and suddenly knew how to fight with a lightsaber? You can't just meditate years of formal training into yourself.
#105 - boarderlinegreat (04/28/2016) [-]
There were other force users who could use the force intuitively and with some 30 mins of instructions, such as Luke in the new hope. This is nothing new.
#104 - boarderlinegreat has deleted their comment.
#84 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
A form of battle meditation? Consider this: she didn't aquire skills but was able to react instinctively to kylos' movements etc. Better reflex and some form of precognition about kylo's intentions. on the outside looks like a sudden boost in skills but in the inside boils down to better reflex and intuition.
#22 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Well, the Force isn't a very strictly defined magic system is it? I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying we're trying to solve a puzzle with pieces missing and without the box. I hope these things will be explained, and I argue that these conundrums make her character more interesting, since we really don't know who she is. I'm saying there might be a satisfying explanation to it, so we shouldn't just hate her because the writers wanted her to be a mystery.
#29 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
You can't fix her character in my eyes. I know I'm being stubborn - but I'm still excited for the movies to come and I plan to thoroughly enjoy them. But her character is broken. Because either:
A) she stays as powerful as she is, and persists as a Mary Sue. Or
B) they nerf her, and spend the next movie unlocking her hidden potential, making her even more of a Mary Sue.
#77 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
Option C: She goes dark, loses some powers, gains others, kylo ren becomes good after killing his father.
#31 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I'm just being optimistic about it.
#33 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
I'm extremely optimistic of the movies to come: just not Rey.
Though I do admit having a female protagonist for the first two major Star Wars releases in a decade new trilogy and Rogue Squadron is fucking pandering...
#68 - SemiAnon (04/28/2016) [-]
oh, there it is.

muh pandering
User avatar
#23 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
There's something exactly like what Rey did. Battle Meditation. Qui-Gon does it in EP1. Not really a mystery as to what it was.
#24 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Except Qui Gonn was a Jedi Master while she is a scavenger. Makes sense when he does it, not when she does it. Hence why people are aggro, and why I am intrigued.
User avatar
#25 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
Other force users have shown much more power with no training. Palps and Bane were exceptional users when they got emotional. Palps slaughtered his entire family and their guards by himself with no training. Bane crushed his father's heart.
#27 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
True but that was in EU, which is no longer canon and thus not very reliable. However, I was kind of assuming that a similar thing was happening with Rey.
User avatar
#30 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
It's still partially canon. Legends is basically stories about the past, they could be entirely made up or entirely true. They just made the Legends canon so if they contradict something they can just say the stories aren't true there.
#15 - That's true, but you know we don't talk about the prequels exc…  [+] (1 new reply) 04/28/2016 on fact +2
User avatar
#16 - krajan (04/28/2016) [-]
if i had time i would and prequels except for attack of the clones arent that bad i just think people have a hard with the 20 year differance or so when the movies were made
#11 - Well, there's more to her than we have seen in the movie. We r…  [+] (42 new replies) 04/28/2016 on fact +11
#14 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
It doesn't matter who she is.
Anakin was born purely of the force - he didn't get to jump right into mind tricks and fucking lightsaber duels. Rey used her staff to chase off other scavengers and maybe the odd predator - not anywhere near the skill and finesse that takes Jedi and Sith years of training to achieve. And Rey could be the child of Luke Skywalker and a goddamned force ghost and it wouldn't explain how she is able to use specific abilities with zero context or training. I'll buy that she was able to resists mind-bending force powers due to a natural affinity, but she had no clue what the force even was before Kylo Ren tried to mindfuck her. Luke saw Obi-Wan use it and even explain the trick but wasn't able to use it himself until years of training later. She can fly the goddamned Millennium Falcon after spending her life on a blocky speederbike? That's like you or me riding go-karts then saying "oh yeah, I can totally pilot this jet for the Air Force!"
The ONLY aspect of her character that made sense was her ability to fix/hotwire ships - because she spent her entire life dismantling them. Every other skill of hers was such bullshit it makes me cringe that professional fucking writers got paid to create her.
#34 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Anakin mentioned.
The little boy that could drive a pod better than EVERYONE.
The little boy that took a star fighter into a hangar and destroyed an entire ship.
He must have been trained by Yoda when he was 3 though right?
#37 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
Anakin: the little boy who wrecked and destroyed multiple Pod Racers before finally winning ONE race with some tutelage from Qui-Gon Jin. Who then proceeded to get over halfway to his target in a starfighter that was on autopilot before crash landing in the hanger.
And HE was born from the force impregnating his fucking mom.
#38 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
His owner admitted his skill level.
Sebulba flashed him with his vents causing the destroyed pod.
That's even in the movie.
He was a great mechanic to start with and a great pilot as a little boy.
Actively used the force without knowing much about it. And knew less than Rey.
Don't get caught up on your perceived inconsistencies until more of the story is released. She may have been trained in the force and had her memory removed to keep her safe. Too many possibilities at this time.
Making up shit is a great way of spoiling future movies.

Does it say how Rey was born?
So its possible she is force born as well?
#40 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
Anakin only ever used Passive Jedi techniques until after years of closely-monitored tutelage under literally the entire Jedi Council. He grew up scavenging, repairing, and building pod racers and was able to race them (only ever winning one race in his entire career). His ability to pod race was ascribed to his innate force abilities (faster than human reflexes). Rey's first use of the force was an active attempt at the Jedi Mind trick: something even Anakin had to be taught. She gets into her first ever lightsaber duel (an artform that is taught over the course of years), and wins (sure, Kylo was wounded: but he was winning before Rey bullshitted the force out of her ass).
Even if she is in fact another child of the force, her natural abilities are eons beyond what Anakin was capable of. Because even in Star Wars, "the force" isn't some magical fuck-all end-all solution to everything. A Jedi doesn't get to be awesome at all things always: they learn to control the force to make them better at the things they know how to do.
#41 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Can you show me the source of Rey's origin story that you seem to have?
I would like to read the part that she was materialized as a young adult on Jakku and never heard of the force or anything for that matter.

Lets break down what she does.

Resist Kylo Ren's mind reading.

Use the mind trick on a stormtrooper after failing to a couple of times.

Just about hold off Ren in a lightsaber duel (seriously she's in retreat the whole time).
Partially Force pull a lightsaber.

Manage to "let the Force flow through her" long enough to beat an injured, distracted Ren.

And what does Anakin do?

Nearly achieves a win in pod-racing (before meeting a jedi) (Sebulba cheats to win that race. So you can stop saying omg never won until jedi.)

Innately uses the force to repair mechanical equipment from the age of 9.

Also innately uses the force to pilot something that goes over 700 kilometers per hour. Roughly 435 miles an hour for Americans.

Autopilots a star fighter into space.....avoids blaster fire after taking control. Then destroys a space station. (ill give you that it was luck......or was it more innate force use)
Thats Anakin.
Luke does some pretty amazing things without being trained as well.

Deflects beams from a training sphere in minutes.
Pilots a star fighter with no training.
Destroys the Deathstar with an impossible shot.
Communes with a force ghost. Something yoda had to train Obiwan.
Rey could have been trained at a early age and made to forget at an early age.
Something you ignored last time. Her connection with Leia/Han/Luke is quick.
We don't know her backstory so hating on her at this point can make you a huge idiot in the future.
Im not saying you are completely wrong. (which the tone of your writing seems to imply) I am saying to wait and see what her backstory is.
If you are wrong about her not ever being trained or wrong about anything you will feel like quite the idiot.

#42 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
Stop imagining a backstory for her that doesn't exist.
Luke was a skilled pilot before his voyage into space (same as Anakin). And Luke was quick to learn the force when it was being taught to him. Rey gets mindfucked once and suddenly knows what the mind trick is and how to do it.
And you know what? If your guess is true and she had her memories wiped and she really did known all this stuff all along? It just makes her more of a Mary Sue. Because not only is she awesome at everything - but she learned how to be awesome at everything as a child before her tragic backstory began... Seriously, if she is a Skywalker then she will be 5 for 5 on the "Mary Sue" indicator.
1) Impossibly skilled for her age
2) Loved/envied/desired by everyone she meets
3) Fixes problems that have existed in the movies for years (Han's faulty hyperdrive).
4) Is related to the main cast
5) Has a tragic backstory that exists as an afterthought rather than an actual building block.
#44 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Luke skilled pilot because he drove a sand speeder. (no pilot interface)
Anakin skilled pilot because he drove a pod racer (abysmal pilot interface made for hovering only)
Rey skilled pilot because she drove a speeder. (actual x-wing/tie fighter interface)
Luke = speeder from his uncle
Anakin = pod from his owner/built
Rey = Completely custom built by her starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rey's_speeder
So not impossibly skilled for her age. Just above average. And better than Luke/Anakin

Kyle Katarn fully self taught in the force and became a jedi.
While legend now it was still a thing.

Are you intentially ignoring that Leia bypassed Chewie (hans oldest and greatest friend) and hugged Rey instead? Maybe more to the story.
Maybe she heard the stories of force users using mind tricks and force pull.
Knowledge is power. Maybe these movies are going deeper than older movies you seen. Maybe she is just trying out things she heard of before.

Just wait for the backstory.
It may make her worse. Or it may make her better.

#48 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
No pilot interface? This is a T-16 skyhopper wtf are you on about that Luke had no pilot experience? He flew and maintained this thing on his own.
And Anakin comments on how the directional controls of the Naboo fighter was the same as a podracer, it was weapons and auxiliary controls he had no knowledge of. Not only that, but podracing was so rapid and intense that humans were not physically able to do it.
Rey used a tie fighter interface to build her speeder bike, fine. But it doesn't explain how she was able to control a freighter that typically demands a pilot and co-pilot on her own with such expertise as to evade actual trained pilots with actual tie fighters.
Nothing about her backstory can redeem her. Either the status quo will stay the same and she'll continue to be the Mary Sue she is, or some bullshit will come up to explain how someone with no training in anything is an expert at everything which will only serve to deepen the terrible experience with her character. And I honestly don't know what would be worse: some convoluted story of her being a Skywalker which makes her instantly awesome at things even the other Skywalkers were slowly trained over years to become decent at, or the idea that she isn't a Skywalker and she is just Anakin 2.0
I enjoyed the movie. I like the story, and I like the other characters. I don't like Rey. Her character is the definition of a Mary Sue and the irony that a Star Trek director is responsible for her existence is not lost on me.
#51 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
I do enjoy you grasping at straws.
And i tire of arguing with you so i looked it up.
It turns out there is a bunch of people jumping on the "Mary Sue" band wagon.
It seems like it's the edgy people.

So a reputed source has decided to comment on it and it says some of the same things i have been saying.

www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/01/04/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-not-a-mary-sue/#2fa2979fd45b

And it opens further holes in your comments.
While trying to read Rey's mind Kylo opened up his own. You can watch the movie to see this. Only then does she use the mind trick. And later she beats Kylo in a saber battle because he is trying to take her prisoner....not kill her.

Her piloting ability is further enhanced the by the tech of her time. Must more advanced than Anakins or Lukes. So it is no surprise she is such a great pilot.

Just read the article.
To clarify i also read the Trekkie Marie Sue story......Rey is nothing like her.



#54 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
I'm not exactly sure when "contributer" on Forbes become a 'reputed source'? But fine, I'll tear his article apart to.
Please, tell me how she isn't a Mary Sue. Young/inexperienced protagonist dropped into the middle of an existing setting. Instantly able to compete on par with experts of technology, able to resolve long-standing issues within the show. Readily accepted into the good graces and admiration of every previous main character... Literally the only thing that separates her from a Mary Sue is that this isn't a fanfic, it's canon. It doesn't matter if you give her some fuck-all backstory because that's part of being a Mary Sue. The original M.S. reached the rank of Lieutenant at age 15: that was her fuck-all backstory and it did nothing to make the character less terrible. If Rey's fuck-all backstory is "I'm just the absolute best Skywalker yet" or "I taught myself how to become an expert in every field while I was scavenging to survive on Jakku" it doesn't make it any less groan-worthy that she's a fucking master at things she has no right to be.
#56 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Forbes wouldn't allow it to be printed if it was complete rubbish.
You're avoiding two things again like the plague. I can't fault you for avoiding them.
I would avoid them too if i were arguing from your view.
She learned from Kylo himself when she got into his mind

While trying to read Rey's mind Kylo opened up his own. You can watch the movie to see this. Only then does she use the mind trick. And later she beats Kylo in a saber battle because he is trying to take her prisoner....not kill her.

Her piloting ability is further enhanced the by the tech of her time. Much more advanced than Anakins or Lukes. So it is no surprise she is such a great pilot.

Mary Sue was as you admitted fan fic.
Rey is not fan-fic. And you know..... The Force Awakens
There has been an awakening in the force. - Snoke

To me it means that someone very strong in the force is just now realizing their power. Or becoming powerful.
They will be a force to contend with if we do not convince them to join us.

To you it just means nothing. The title of the movie and a character in it said something about awakening but that is irrelevant.




#62 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
How does "tech of the time" help when flying a customized ship that is older than she is? And why is it that Kylo Ren's mind-read is enough to awaken latent force abilities but the Emperor's (luke on the bridge) and Darth Vader's (Leia in interrogation) was not?
In fact, here's a fun game to play: "List all the times Rey needed someone else's help".
Was it when the scavvers tried to steal BB-8 when Finn is right there? Nope - turns out she's awesome at fighting.
Was it when the First Order was chasing them as she figured out first hand how to fly an old outdated ship (so much for your "tech of the time" argument)? Nope - turns out she figured it out so fast she was able to line up the game winning shot for Finn.
Was it when the rival gangs had Han against a wall? Nope - but hey! She screwed up and let the monsters out so there's tha- no wait, nevermind she saved everyone from those too.
How about when they meet Han's contact, surely she needs at least a pep talk? Nope - turns out she is so charismatic that Finn decides she's worth risking his life for.
How about when she was actually captured by Kylo Ren - surely the 2nd biggest bad guy is too much for her alone? Nope - turns out she is so naturally gifted in the force she manages to turn his force powers against him and then formulate her own escape.
The most distraught for help she ever gets is when Finn can't find the right tape. She needs help from the experts literally zero times in the entire movie. Luke was a decent pilot, but deferred to his Droids for tech support, Han for fire support, Old Ben for force lessons and Leia's leadership in general. Even wunderkind Anakin was useless outside of a cockpit until he had years of training. But not Rey. She's just fucking awesome.
#65 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Ill help you with "tech of the time" since you can't figure it out.

I can operate a nintendo gameboy.....even though it is outdated....because i have better now.
Star destroyers were made after Luke's speeder and much later than Anakin's pod racer.
So were tie fighters.
And as you know....tech advances over time.
When i was 10 there was no such thing as a cell phone or internet.
So now you understand unless you're a time traveler.

Darth Vader didn't use the force to force an interrogation. They used torture. A droid for the specific purpose of torturing. But you're kinda right....Leia didn't learn how to be a droid. You must have missed that.

Vader and the Emperor also didn't try to read Luke's mind like Kylo did to the force sensitive Rey.
Force lightning and force push aren't mind reading.....just so you know

She lived alone on a planet for many years. Linguistics and fighting were just a norm that she had to learn over time. It was not instant. She also learned piloting from the dozens of ships she salvaged. And the speeder she built completely from parts of those ships. You know....the ones with better tech than anything Luke or Anakin had. All of this is pretty much....well duh.

Name times when she needed help.
She was attacked by two guys without weapons. She was carrying a staff and she even bit one....i mean cmon....that wasn't the force that was desperation.
I'm pretty sure even untrained i could do that.
She needed help fighting off the Tie Fighters.
She needed help repairing the Falcon (sure that part wasn't so hard. But she only has two hands)
She would have been captured much sooner....good thing Han helped her and gave her a blaster.
She needed help to escape from the chair...Kylo helped her by giving her knowledge when she saw into his mind. (You can call that what you like.....she couldn't do it alone)
She needed help while she was passed out and fin helped keep Kylo away from her
She needed help picking fin up
She needed help escaping from Starkiller base.
Is that enough? You did ask me to list all the times. Those are the ones i knew of.
Used to using newer tech....old tech (the Falcon) would be pretty self explanatory.
Did she really save "everyone"? I saw people go down to the Rathtars.....that must be a part you missed. Or do you mean just the main characters?

So.....several times she was helped. The "Mary Sue" fallacy is waning.
But hey....just because you're wrong about her being a Mary Sue.....does not mean you have to suddenly stop hating her. It just means hating her for being a Mary Sue is wrong.

You should read again everything that has been typed. Contradicting yourself and ignoring human nature doesn't do well in debate like this.

I was born in the days of GI Joes and Transformers. I still know how to use a hoop and stick and a yo-yo.
I can drive my 2015 Motorcycle......and you know what. I can drive a motorcycle from 50 years ago too So tech of the time.....and backwards is a pretty normal thing to pick up. I can even fix those old motorcycles much easier and faster than newer ones.

Really though....don't be upset....i promise you can still hate her.


#115 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
Leia was tortured with the Droid and by the Force. That is why Vader comments on her resilience.
Emperor reads Luke's mind when he's trying to play it cool and stoic like a Jedi - able to find his friends' plans, locations, and Luke's concern for them. A lot more than a little bit of lightning and pushing.
And every single example you gave were times she helped herself and even helped others. "She had to fight two guys" and she kicked their ass without help. "She had to fix the Falcon" and the only speedbump was Finn's inability to find the right tape. "She got captured" and managed to un-fuck the situation before her friends could even catch up to save her (just like when she was attacked on Jakku and managed to win the fight before Finn could run up and help). She needed help fighting Kylo but then the tables turn and she ends up winning that fight instead.
Every example you gave was exactly what I demonstrated: she doesn't need help, and even when she's hopelessly outmatched she manages to not only win, but help others while she's at it.
And I've conceded her ability to fly multiple times, so I'm really not sure why you're still dedicating so much time to explaining that. Her piloting and engineering abilities are explained canonically and reasonably (to an extent, and we'll use "the force" as an excuse for the rest). Tech of the time is still a weaksauce answer. If you learned how to drive in a self-driving car, I doubt you're ready to get on the Nascar circuit.
#126 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
Okay.....im doing this for your own good. The statement below is absolutely wrong.
You might need to watch the movie.

"She had to fix the Falcon" and the only speedbump was Finn's inability to find the right tape.

She asked finn to come help her quick. I can't give an exact quote. But she asked for help because she couldn't lift the cover alone. This really happened. Ignoring it to suit your statement doesn't work.

Yeah she kicked those two guys ass. By kicking one in the face and biting the other.
Did you just hear about the movie? Biting someone is a move of desperation not untouchable skill. She also had a staff.....that she was only able to free after she bit the guy. Cmon.....watch the movie once.

This is one of my favorite parts of your comment for two reasons.
1. Already answered
2. You ignored it more than once
"She needed help fighting Kylo but then the tables turn and she ends up winning that fight instead."
Kylo and her were fighting with lightsabers. Maybe you missed that. He was trying to capture her. Not kill her. The orders from snoke are clear.
He was not only shot by a Bowcaster but he was also hit by finn with a saber.
Is it even possible his weakened state and his order to capture her impeded his ability to beat her?

Thanks for conceded her piloting ability.
Self driving spaceships in star wars and self-driving cars are not a thing.
So that's irrelevant. And petty really. If you learn to drive a self driving care doesn't that mean you are now driving the car capable of self driving? food for thought

Vader commented on her resilience to the torture droid. He tried to coerce her thoughts to be of the resistance but it did not work. Her mind is much stronger than her body. This too is known. The emperor sensed Luke's feelings as force sensitive people can. He already knew about the shield generator and had already had a trap waiting before Luke was in his presence. Guess you should watch that movie again too....or for the first time.

Kylo when reading thoughts asks the victim questions and inflicts pain at the same time. It is a torture method Vader did not use. Likely Vader knew that using it would also open his mind to force sensitive people because he had more training.

#127 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
Oh you're right - she needed help lifting a metal grate. That does it! She can't possibly be a Mary Sue because she casually asked for help lifting a grate!
Thanks for pointing it out. See, I thought she was unbelievably OP because she could fly a ship on the first try, fix a problem the ship's owner couldn't fix, saved everyone from gangsters and then monsters, earned the love and admiration of every character she met within minutes of meeting them, learned to use high-level force techniques with no training, and was able to increase her proficiency with a lightsaber by taking a deep breath.
BUT HOLY FUCKING GOLLY JEE SHE COULDN'T LIFT THAT FUCKING GRATE ON HER OWN!
#128 - Glitched (04/28/2016) [-]
You're an idiot now.
You conceded her piloting ability and now saying op.
You continue to contradict yourself.
You must be trolling.
#130 - Glitched (04/29/2016) [-]
recapping a conceded point.
ignoring the rest
trolling like a pro
#129 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
I was recapping, you fucking twit.
Pointing out the absurdity that out of all the OP shit she did, you're saying "she couldn't lift a grate on her own" even merits consideration in whether or not she's OP.
#103 - wanpanman (04/28/2016) [-]
I get that it has a cannon and some characters are op but all i can say is i enjoyed the film...

Then again i try not to read too deeply into anything... Ruins it for me
#17 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
You have some valid points, but I'm just trying to give the benefit of doubt for a series I love. A lot doesn't make sense, but it's possible that we don't know the whole story. Perhaps she had started being trained before she was left on Jakku, or something like that. I'm just saying we don't know the whole story, so we can't complain that we don't understand. Now if the whole trilogy comes out and that shit still doesn't make sense, then we can be aggro. I'm just trying to enjoy my movies.
#18 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
There's no amount of training a 5 year old could have received to validate all of this. And really, it's the inexplicable emotional connection everyone feels toward her that makes her a Mary Sue:
Finn "the way you looked at me..." when the only looks she had given him were "why is this Droid shouting about you", "stop grabbing me I don't need you to lead me", and "seriously hand me the right fucking tape".
Leia "my husband just died, but come here deary I know you're heartbroken after knowing him for all of a flight and a half".
And Kylo "you're not completely defenseless you should be the padawan I take to completely usurp the current power dynamic.
Everyone loves her for no reason and she's fucking amazing at everything she tries. Literally the Star Wars version of the original Star Trek Mary Sue.
I loved the movie and I am stoked for the rest if them. But I hate Rey. Love Finn, love Leia, love every other character in the story. Fucking can't stand Rey.
#19 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
You're right, training as a young child doesn't fully explain her burst in skill, but something changed in the moment when she closed her eyes. It's a mystery and that's what it's supposed to be. As for the emotional connections, well Finn seems to grow emotionally attached to people rather quickly, note how he and Poe are buddies after they reunite. Granted that bond probably formed due to the intense situations they faced together, but the same argument can be made for Finn and Rey. Rey and Leia, well, they were kind of comforting each other. Plus, Leia is much older and is more experienced with losing people she cares about, while Rey was not. Kylo Ren had a sudden change of heart about her because he knows who she is. In the book, when she called the lightsaber, he literally said, "it is you." A line they did not include in the movie for some reason. There is something special about her. I trust the writers will provide a good explanation for all this stuff. But we will see. Maybe she will just end up just being a Mary Sue.
#20 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
She closed her eyes, said "the force" and suddenly knew how to fight with a lightsaber? You can't just meditate years of formal training into yourself.
#105 - boarderlinegreat (04/28/2016) [-]
There were other force users who could use the force intuitively and with some 30 mins of instructions, such as Luke in the new hope. This is nothing new.
#104 - boarderlinegreat has deleted their comment.
#84 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
A form of battle meditation? Consider this: she didn't aquire skills but was able to react instinctively to kylos' movements etc. Better reflex and some form of precognition about kylo's intentions. on the outside looks like a sudden boost in skills but in the inside boils down to better reflex and intuition.
#22 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Well, the Force isn't a very strictly defined magic system is it? I'm not saying it makes sense. I'm saying we're trying to solve a puzzle with pieces missing and without the box. I hope these things will be explained, and I argue that these conundrums make her character more interesting, since we really don't know who she is. I'm saying there might be a satisfying explanation to it, so we shouldn't just hate her because the writers wanted her to be a mystery.
#29 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
You can't fix her character in my eyes. I know I'm being stubborn - but I'm still excited for the movies to come and I plan to thoroughly enjoy them. But her character is broken. Because either:
A) she stays as powerful as she is, and persists as a Mary Sue. Or
B) they nerf her, and spend the next movie unlocking her hidden potential, making her even more of a Mary Sue.
#77 - anon (04/28/2016) [-]
Option C: She goes dark, loses some powers, gains others, kylo ren becomes good after killing his father.
#31 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, I'm just being optimistic about it.
#33 - justtocomment (04/28/2016) [-]
I'm extremely optimistic of the movies to come: just not Rey.
Though I do admit having a female protagonist for the first two major Star Wars releases in a decade new trilogy and Rogue Squadron is fucking pandering...
#68 - SemiAnon (04/28/2016) [-]
oh, there it is.

muh pandering
User avatar
#23 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
There's something exactly like what Rey did. Battle Meditation. Qui-Gon does it in EP1. Not really a mystery as to what it was.
#24 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
Except Qui Gonn was a Jedi Master while she is a scavenger. Makes sense when he does it, not when she does it. Hence why people are aggro, and why I am intrigued.
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#25 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
Other force users have shown much more power with no training. Palps and Bane were exceptional users when they got emotional. Palps slaughtered his entire family and their guards by himself with no training. Bane crushed his father's heart.
#27 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
True but that was in EU, which is no longer canon and thus not very reliable. However, I was kind of assuming that a similar thing was happening with Rey.
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#30 - drldrl (04/28/2016) [-]
It's still partially canon. Legends is basically stories about the past, they could be entirely made up or entirely true. They just made the Legends canon so if they contradict something they can just say the stories aren't true there.
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#13 - krajan (04/28/2016) [-]
skywalkers were natural pilots but using anakin on the droid control ship is better luke also commented on how he bullseyed womp rats at home and theyre not much bigger so he had some experience already
#15 - flameprintz (04/28/2016) [-]
That's true, but you know we don't talk about the prequels except to bitch. Also I never put much stock in that so-called experience. Lasers and proton torpedoes behave differently, we don't know how far he was from the womp rats, and one is in atmosphere while the other is in space. I still recommend reading the book. It fills in some gaps, like how Poe gets out of the desert, and fleshes out the characters a bit better.
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#16 - krajan (04/28/2016) [-]
if i had time i would and prequels except for attack of the clones arent that bad i just think people have a hard with the 20 year differance or so when the movies were made
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i want to delete this comment but i wont because my life
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#5 - lamangalamat (02/24/2016) [-]
god bless your beautiful soul