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|#1 - If you could reason with atheist people, there would be no aes… [+] (24 new replies)||12/12/2011 on always right||-50|
#12 - poopooisawesome (12/12/2011) [-]
'Aesthetic' is a term used describe how good something looks; are you saying that without Athiests, there would be no good looking people? Also, Athiesm is about the use of scientific evidence, reason, and logic to explain how the world works; there is sound evidence disproving many of the bibles claims. I was actually protestant once, four years ago, but as an intelligent human being (and in all honestly, almost everyone is intelligent, although perhaps uneducated) it becomes hard to learn more about science and the world, and still believe in a god. While I can't make anyone believe in anything, when almost everything we know today can be explained by scientific evidence and someone still choose to believe in what a book said 2000 years ago (people still thought the world was flat, the galaxy revolved around the earth, and that the sky was just a big dome) that, to me, is unreasonable.
#40 - poopooisawesome (12/13/2011) [-]
While that is true, much of the bible is incompatible with science. For instance, the bible says that the world is 10000 years old. We have fossilized evidence of creatures (ie: dinosaurs) that are older than that, by about 65 million years. To believe in the bible then you have to accept one of two things: 1) Either dinosaurs were around at the time of Abraham, but nobody mentioned them, which I find hard to believe due to their size. 2) Dinosaur fossils were put, at times, 20-50 meters in the ground by either god, for some reason never mentioned in the bible, or people who created giant reptile skeletons for some ritual. Going with just the age thing, we also have carbon (and other elements with similar half-lives) dating, reversed magnetic ocean volcanic rock, and oceanic scrapes from an ice age millions of years ago. Some other things become hard to ignore such as evolution. Natural selection has been proven by animal breeders throughout the world, and humans with interracial parents. Evolution, while not proven, has much evidence. In humans, we have a non-functioning third eyelid, goosebumps, blushing, wisdom teeth, and the appendix. We need none of these things, and in fact, most people have their appendix and wisdom teeth removed. If one chooses to believe in intelligent design, then one has to believe that a god did this for no reason whatsoever, and wanted to inflict pain via wisdom teeth (mine were just removed). There are, of course, much more, such as the talking snake (even if you believe that god made this snake talk, modern snakes don't have vocal cords, nor lips or a tongue for diction). Also, why would a god create a utopia (garden of eden), and create a snake in it to corrupt man (or woman, whatever)? My point with all of this is that the bible (creationism) and science don't mix on almost every level, unless you twist the words around, which defeats one initial point of god being all knowing and benevolent, as you are then saying he is wrong.
#359 - PrismaLowell (12/14/2011) [-]
#361 - poopooisawesome (12/14/2011) [-]
If you start taking the bibles quotes metaphorically, and picking and choosing what you want to believe, then you leave big loopholes in your beliefs, which starts not making sense when you really think about it. For instance, keeping with the evolution subject, creationism is integral to believing in the bible (I went to sunday school for 7 years, and a daycare for 4 years learning the bible) while not being contradictory. If you believe in evolution, but believe in the book of genesis, then obviously, that does not make sense. If you believe in Jesus being born a virgin, that does not make sense, as Jesus would then have to be identical in every way to Mary due to asexual reproduction. Aside from science and religion being incompatible, there are several logical fallacies with the belief in god himself. Why does god choose to let people in Africa suffer through malaria, AIDS, hunger and other ailments, but in North America and Europe, we has so much stuff, there are health problems because people have too much food? Why has he allowed people to believe in their own religion, when believing in anything but christianity (or whatever religion) will send them to hell? What about the humans born before the bible was written (assuming you know anything about science, you know they existed), do they go to hell? What about those that do not know about him (native americans, aboriginals, etc.)? If god loves everything, and created everything (the bible says he did), why did he create hell? If he is all powerful, why does he not get rid of hell? If he loves everything, and is omnipotent (the bible directly says he is all knowing, you cannot extrapolate data from that(Genesis 18:14; Luke 18:27; Revelation 19:6) ), why has he decided that what he describes as bad people go to hell, instead of being rehabilitated? Why would he give humans free will, knowing that there would be factions that do not believe in him? I have more, but that is all that can fit in 2000 characters.
#363 - PrismaLowell (12/14/2011) [-]
The Bible is a book of stories meant to teach men lessons and help them led moral lifes, they also attempt to tell how the world came to be, but people began to interpret these stories as facts. The stories in the bible are symbolical, they are meant to teach lessons. It also depends on the individual person. For example i believe there is no heaven nor hell, I also believe in Clockwork Universe Theory, which explains why he dosen't interfere. It isn't up to God to change the world, it is our responsibility to take care of our fellow brethren and make sure everybody has a good life full of prosperity. The Earth is our world and we need to take care of it. Also a lot of Christian holidays and stories were based off of other religions that the church brought in in order to keep the people that "converted" happy so they don't have to change their ways to much. You are missing the point of my original comment "I believe you are switching atheists with plain old science. Atheism is not believing in a deity or deities, while science is using logic and reason to explain the universe. Many people are religious and follow science" My point was that that atheism is the belief that there is no God(s), where you got that i was saying the Bible is the truth, I don't know i was just saying that many religious people follow science.
#366 - poopooisawesome (12/14/2011) [-]
Also, in response to your initial point, I thought I had covered that in my earlier point. Mixing religions explanations with sciences does not work due to the ideas being condradictory, which I had covered earlier. I would also like to compliment you, and as cheesy as this sounds, thumb you up. I have not had an honest, intelligent conversation like this about this for some time, so thank you for actually providing evidence to your claims, and telling me why (the why is important) you think you are right. People like you give me hope that religious and non-religious people can get along.
#364 - poopooisawesome (12/14/2011) [-]
Do you mind if I ask you a couple questions? 1) Do you believe that the bible is moral? If so, then you are for humans being property of other humans (slavery)? Women being property of their fathers, and later, husbands? Women having no rights? That a handicapped or sick person, perhaps a child with leukemia, is all part of a plan by god? If not a plan by god, then he will at least let it happen. If not, next question. 2) Do you believe that the bible is relevant today? Should politicians reference it as a reason for them to be elected? Will a religious world be a more successful one than this one? 3) Does the clockwork universe theory take away freewill? If so, then god willingly sends people to hell, due to the fact that they cannot control their actions. This seems immoral to me. If not, then you must believe in quantum theory, which if true (much evidence points to this), then you are believing in two contradictory theories, as quantum physics and the uncertainty principle would explain how an event such as the big bang would happen, and how the universe would not have a completely set path branching off from what newtons laws and the theory of relativity can mathematically show. Before I go on, I would quickly like to say that you have given me some of the most well thought out rebuttal I have ever gotten in a conversation on this topic. That being said, I don't intend for this, but this will sound a little mean. 4) Can someone believe in science, and still completely and truly believe in god? Evolution has evidence to back it up and disprove creationism, artifacts and fossils disprove that the world is less than 10000 years old, and quantum theory, and thermodynamics (which is a law of nature) disprove the clockwork universe theory. These cannot be argued with, and are fact. 5) Knowing this, why would one still believe in god, when he has been essentially been proved not to exist (yes, you're right, we can't completely disprove him, that would be impossible)?
#367 - PrismaLowell (12/14/2011) [-]
1) The bible was written over thousands of years ago by many different authors that were in different societies with different norms. Slavery is not acceptable today, but it once was once the same goes for women i don't support owning other humans because i believe that we are born with the same natural rights of life, liberty, and property. I do believe the Bible was a moral guide-stone, but people started using it for their own gain.
2)Politicians shouldn't because of our (unfortunately shrinking) separation of Church and State. I cant say a religious world would be better since someone will corrupt for their own gain, as is any other world
3) I do admit that Clockwork theory is based on an absolute Newtonian universe, which has been proven wrong by Special Relativity. I also do believe That quantum physics runs the universe, I believe in the part of clockwork where God dosen't run the Universe (I guess i take it as more Philosophical than Scientific). Also i believe that morality is in the eyes of the beholder as my perception of the universe is different from yours.
4) Wasn't Newton and Galileo religious? And to be honest Creationism "science" (An oxymoron if i ever heard one) was put into place to combat the theory of evolution which was gaining strength in American schools. (i.e. the Scopes Monkey trial) I can't say i have the best understanding of thermodynamics, though entropy has always intrigued me. Freewill is based on what you define it as.
5) It all comes down to your perspective on the universe, if you believe in a creator or not. Some people want that comfort of an afterlife, because they can't cope with the fact that after life there is nothingness, not that they are wrong to believe that there is a heaven since it is their perspective of the universe.
#368 - poopooisawesome (12/14/2011) [-]
Can I ask what you believe in, if there is a term for it? I'm obviously an athiest, but do you have a specific discipline?
1) So you think the bible is immoral? Yes, you are correct on your other point, it was a different time, but the book is still part of that time, and if people are getting morals from it, such as "gays should not get married," is that not an outdated belief? Yes, there are some good moral tidbits here and there (love thy neighbour), but it is very much all immoral by todays standards.
2) I agree with what you say completely. Every belief (including athiesm) should be kept out of politics, as it is mostly irrelevant to the political world.
3) Even though Clockwork theory has been proven wrong, you still believe it? You can believe what you want, but why?
4) Yes, Newton and Galileo were both Christian, and Galileo was met with much controversy upon his discovery, while Newtons research did not contradict with the bible, so it was accepted. Freewill is defined as the ability for one to choose what he wants to do next, or conversely not having a set destination in life. Do you believe that god has a set destination (hell included) for people? The clockwork theory would say yes.
5) It's not a matter of what one wants or not; it is a matter of if it is there or not.
#369 - PrismaLowell (12/14/2011) [-]
1)The underlying truth in the Bible is being a good person and treat everybody with kindness and that should be especially relevant in today's time. As i stated earlier i don't believe in a heaven or hell, and i believe good and evil are relative terms.
3) I am sorry but i meant the philosophical aspects of Clockwork to put it better i believe in the pandeist's point of view where nature and God are one and the same.
4) I believe that there is freewill, but also everything we do is a product of conditioning, every habit or every want is a product of you being influenced. So yes, free will exists, but we are constantly being influenced by past experiences and memories.
5) In this case they are both the same. God is a construct, something we can not observe or test at this moment, so asking if the Creator is real or not is a matter of philosophy. If you believe there is a god, then god(s) exist for you, if you deny the existence then he doesn't exist.
P.S. Also sorry i took so long, had to go to school
P.S.S. if you are referring to the god of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims then capitalize the G, if not keep the lowercase unless you refer to them by name
#5 - anonymous poster (12/12/2011) [-]
So if you could reason with atheists, everyone would be ugly?
Okay. I can totally see how those would be at all related.
#362 - poopooisawesome (12/14/2011) [-]
Athiesm is not based on faith, it is based on scientific fact, and the rejection of a god. We do not know how the world was formed, but due to scientific logic, we can conclude that a magic man in the clouds did not create the universe. Look at my above arguements for more.
#9 - anonymous poster (12/12/2011) [-]
then you die and where does that "logic" go
#11 - anonymous poster (12/12/2011) [-]
You've died before, and you know what happens?
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