So it's not out, it'll be out in a month or two?

Yeah, I realised that and replied to you again.
I think both our brains died

Well now we have both

This is not in good taste. This does not expand dong.
The proportions are all wrong, not enough rope, be advised about that neck.

for fuck sake, does anyone has the x-ray Googles this days?

Well, for a large part, having one was the main thing, even just a toughened leather over a thick padding garment was an effective armour, capable of reducing damage from concussive strikes and giving limited protection against slashing strikes.
That being said, low quality chainmail was bad. If the links separated and/or broke to easily, they would likely pierce you an increase chances of infection.
But low quality chainmail was rarely made, any armourer worth the title would make decent chainmail, the quality you'd need for it to not be worth it is extremely low and actually probably harder to get than regular quality chainmail.
After that, the benefit of higher quality chainmail was that it would increase its protectiveness, obviously, meaning that in those situations you truly needed it, it did more for you. And a warrior would find himself in those situations way too frequently to risk not having the best armour he could.

The other main benefit of better, and extremely expensive in this case, mail was that weight could be reduced through better, and more expensive, alloys and different weaves/gauges/ring diameters. In larp the main benefits would likely be, awesomeness and I guess fitness, mail isn't light, even if you got those weight reductions I talked about. A standard modern hauberk would weigh about 10kg, classical & medieval era mail would weigh significantly more. So half a kilo weight off would be really helpful in battle.

I just read the small text and realised what you meant.
It's still possible to "trade" gift games on steam, its just a gift not a trade

Did you even read my comment?

Yeah, I realised that and replied to you again.
I think both our brains died

All right, if you win you get it

yay <3
Recettear is best game

Isn't larping include fighting without any serious physical contact?

Why's that? If i'd want an imaginary fight, counting up the damage dealt and casting spells - i'd go larping. If I'd want to fight full-contact in a set of heavy armour - i'd go visit HEMA. It's not what I expect, it's the goal that I pursue that matters. Thats why both of these exist separately - much like boxing and wrestling exists.

Alright, first of, my previous message in a nutshell - pick the stuff that you prefer, dont mix them up. Do what you prefer, have you'r own pursuits.
Second: a) coordinated fights are valued in HEMA as well - especially in 1v1 - we dont just run around flailing with out limbs just to inflict wounds, and well coordinated full-contact combat makes it look more realistic, rather than a staged fight with holding back;
b) safety is of great concern in HEMA - quite a few of us actually want to "feel da pain", and we succeed in this rather well - you know, the armour? the one that PROTECTS from harm and severe damage? We get a couple of bruises and injuries from time to time - it ads up to the experience, the one that we crave and enjoy;
c) HEMA isn't a stand-alone event, its mainly a part of the historical reconstruction - alongside with dances, music, cuisine, beverage, attire, atmosphere. There are exceptions though - Battle of Nations.
d) we dont pair uneven combatants (who do you take us for? amateurs?) mostly there are two types of people at such get-togethers - little puny manlets that crave blood (such as myself), and big nasty hairy ruskie-like men. Even if we do mix, they (the bigger ones) go easy on us. Plus, physical characteristics play a huge role in combat style - I, being small (for now), am not heavily armoured - to evade instead of parrying - but have a bastard sword - to compensate my lack of reach.

You've just pretty much highlighted the message I was going for. HEMA and larping are similar in a sense - both exist to emulate a fantasy - either its close to historical records, or wild in the flow of imagination.

I'd try LARP but theres no groups near me, so I've never had a chance to try it out without a serious trek southwards.
But, from what I know of it, butted mail would be more than enough seeing as I've seen some people on facebook using thick wool jumpers spray painted silver.

And all of that besides, the guy got something he likes and will, hopefully, enjoy for a long time. So yeah, his mail is perfectly fine.

Another thing I'd like to mention is how much he's talking out of his arse. A) I've never heard of "hammer hardening" And while I'm not a blacksmith, I do have what could be considered bardic knowledge of it and B) flattening links does not strengthen the mail, it strengthens the links along the axis they are thickened. IE they resist opening more, which is why flattening was more common with butted mail but still used in other sorts of mail, it does help against piercing attacks, as it's harder to open the rings to pierce, but overall it's greatest effect is that over years of use and countless battles, the links would be more likely to stay secure to each other.

Well, for a large part, having one was the main thing, even just a toughened leather over a thick padding garment was an effective armour, capable of reducing damage from concussive strikes and giving limited protection against slashing strikes.
That being said, low quality chainmail was bad. If the links separated and/or broke to easily, they would likely pierce you an increase chances of infection.
But low quality chainmail was rarely made, any armourer worth the title would make decent chainmail, the quality you'd need for it to not be worth it is extremely low and actually probably harder to get than regular quality chainmail.
After that, the benefit of higher quality chainmail was that it would increase its protectiveness, obviously, meaning that in those situations you truly needed it, it did more for you. And a warrior would find himself in those situations way too frequently to risk not having the best armour he could.

The other main benefit of better, and extremely expensive in this case, mail was that weight could be reduced through better, and more expensive, alloys and different weaves/gauges/ring diameters. In larp the main benefits would likely be, awesomeness and I guess fitness, mail isn't light, even if you got those weight reductions I talked about. A standard modern hauberk would weigh about 10kg, classical & medieval era mail would weigh significantly more. So half a kilo weight off would be really helpful in battle.

Isn't larping include fighting without any serious physical contact?

Why's that? If i'd want an imaginary fight, counting up the damage dealt and casting spells - i'd go larping. If I'd want to fight full-contact in a set of heavy armour - i'd go visit HEMA. It's not what I expect, it's the goal that I pursue that matters. Thats why both of these exist separately - much like boxing and wrestling exists.

Alright, first of, my previous message in a nutshell - pick the stuff that you prefer, dont mix them up. Do what you prefer, have you'r own pursuits.
Second: a) coordinated fights are valued in HEMA as well - especially in 1v1 - we dont just run around flailing with out limbs just to inflict wounds, and well coordinated full-contact combat makes it look more realistic, rather than a staged fight with holding back;
b) safety is of great concern in HEMA - quite a few of us actually want to "feel da pain", and we succeed in this rather well - you know, the armour? the one that PROTECTS from harm and severe damage? We get a couple of bruises and injuries from time to time - it ads up to the experience, the one that we crave and enjoy;
c) HEMA isn't a stand-alone event, its mainly a part of the historical reconstruction - alongside with dances, music, cuisine, beverage, attire, atmosphere. There are exceptions though - Battle of Nations.
d) we dont pair uneven combatants (who do you take us for? amateurs?) mostly there are two types of people at such get-togethers - little puny manlets that crave blood (such as myself), and big nasty hairy ruskie-like men. Even if we do mix, they (the bigger ones) go easy on us. Plus, physical characteristics play a huge role in combat style - I, being small (for now), am not heavily armoured - to evade instead of parrying - but have a bastard sword - to compensate my lack of reach.

You've just pretty much highlighted the message I was going for. HEMA and larping are similar in a sense - both exist to emulate a fantasy - either its close to historical records, or wild in the flow of imagination.

I'd try LARP but theres no groups near me, so I've never had a chance to try it out without a serious trek southwards.
But, from what I know of it, butted mail would be more than enough seeing as I've seen some people on facebook using thick wool jumpers spray painted silver.

And all of that besides, the guy got something he likes and will, hopefully, enjoy for a long time. So yeah, his mail is perfectly fine.

Another thing I'd like to mention is how much he's talking out of his arse. A) I've never heard of "hammer hardening" And while I'm not a blacksmith, I do have what could be considered bardic knowledge of it and B) flattening links does not strengthen the mail, it strengthens the links along the axis they are thickened. IE they resist opening more, which is why flattening was more common with butted mail but still used in other sorts of mail, it does help against piercing attacks, as it's harder to open the rings to pierce, but overall it's greatest effect is that over years of use and countless battles, the links would be more likely to stay secure to each other.

Well, for a large part, having one was the main thing, even just a toughened leather over a thick padding garment was an effective armour, capable of reducing damage from concussive strikes and giving limited protection against slashing strikes.
That being said, low quality chainmail was bad. If the links separated and/or broke to easily, they would likely pierce you an increase chances of infection.
But low quality chainmail was rarely made, any armourer worth the title would make decent chainmail, the quality you'd need for it to not be worth it is extremely low and actually probably harder to get than regular quality chainmail.
After that, the benefit of higher quality chainmail was that it would increase its protectiveness, obviously, meaning that in those situations you truly needed it, it did more for you. And a warrior would find himself in those situations way too frequently to risk not having the best armour he could.

The other main benefit of better, and extremely expensive in this case, mail was that weight could be reduced through better, and more expensive, alloys and different weaves/gauges/ring diameters. In larp the main benefits would likely be, awesomeness and I guess fitness, mail isn't light, even if you got those weight reductions I talked about. A standard modern hauberk would weigh about 10kg, classical & medieval era mail would weigh significantly more. So half a kilo weight off would be really helpful in battle.

and B) the force they would hit with, thus altering their penetration rate. For the most part these alter the hit in favour of the target, as the arrow would be, partially (sometimes greatly) coming from above, making it harder to move towards but rather easy to move away from. and the deflection rate would increase if they had some perpendicular movement to the flight of the arrow and also if they didn't present their chest or back directly to the arrow, these being the largest, flattest areas of the mail.

Now theres two more main points I'll go through, 1) other threats besides arrows and 2) the actual wearing of mail.

1) There would be numerous other threats on the battlefield, every enemy, some enemies multiple times, your allies, environmental hazards, etc. Seeing as mail was very effective against these, it stands to reason that a warrior would wear any mail he could, and while he would, of course, wear the best he could obtain, many warriors couldnt afford the best mail, so lesser mail would have been highly used even after armourers found better ways to create it, as a piece of mail was indeed expensive.
There is evidence that, in a fight against one wearing mail, it was a common tactic to strike at the less protected legs.

2) Mail was not worn in isolation, it was worn with a gambeson underneath. Now I'll admit that a gambeson would have no chance of stopping a war arrow in full flight, but the arrows weren't in full flight, they were far less than full flight. If we follow the arrow from immediately before contact to where it finally lands, we'll see it, initially at full flight. Then it hits the mail, it loses some force as the mail, and the matter underneath if shifts, then the overall body will be forced backwards, further reducing the force. Now, if the arrow pierces the mail, it will loose an immense amount of force in doing so, more force the stronger the mail and the larger the head Which, in combat, was a broadhead. Which would lose significant force, . Now we've penetrated the armour and the arrow has lost the majority of it's force. The remainder is still a large amount and more than enough to cause great injury but, there is still padding between the target and the arrow, as well as the target still being forced along the path of the arrow, further reducing force. And a new element is involved now, the arrow is rubbing against the mail, which, while slight is yet another reduction to force, and this reduction will only grow and there is more substance for the arrow to rub against. The arrow, which is spinning as arrows do, will hit the gambeson, which is used to form padding to reduce concussive force and to prevent abrasion. The first property is what we want, the padding is substancial. It will greatly reduce the arrows force, despite the arrows, now slightly blunted, head shearing through it. And as it spins it will become tangled in the loose fibres, loosing more force. This results in the vast majority of the force being lost by the arrow before it gets through the armour layers.
But theres more layers. Clothing would be worn underneath, and since we're talking about english bows, it would be used in the english climate. So thick clothing and sometimes leather would be worn underneath, this forms the final layer which will sometimes not be pierced, sometimes will be. If it is pierced the arrow will have lost the absolute majority of it's force and will, injury occurs at all, be far less grave and sometimes mearly scars. A half inch cut through your stomach muscle is far more survivable than a 5 inch cut that infects your organs.

These estimations change little between riveted and butted mail

Isn't larping include fighting without any serious physical contact?

Why's that? If i'd want an imaginary fight, counting up the damage dealt and casting spells - i'd go larping. If I'd want to fight full-contact in a set of heavy armour - i'd go visit HEMA. It's not what I expect, it's the goal that I pursue that matters. Thats why both of these exist separately - much like boxing and wrestling exists.

Alright, first of, my previous message in a nutshell - pick the stuff that you prefer, dont mix them up. Do what you prefer, have you'r own pursuits.
Second: a) coordinated fights are valued in HEMA as well - especially in 1v1 - we dont just run around flailing with out limbs just to inflict wounds, and well coordinated full-contact combat makes it look more realistic, rather than a staged fight with holding back;
b) safety is of great concern in HEMA - quite a few of us actually want to "feel da pain", and we succeed in this rather well - you know, the armour? the one that PROTECTS from harm and severe damage? We get a couple of bruises and injuries from time to time - it ads up to the experience, the one that we crave and enjoy;
c) HEMA isn't a stand-alone event, its mainly a part of the historical reconstruction - alongside with dances, music, cuisine, beverage, attire, atmosphere. There are exceptions though - Battle of Nations.
d) we dont pair uneven combatants (who do you take us for? amateurs?) mostly there are two types of people at such get-togethers - little puny manlets that crave blood (such as myself), and big nasty hairy ruskie-like men. Even if we do mix, they (the bigger ones) go easy on us. Plus, physical characteristics play a huge role in combat style - I, being small (for now), am not heavily armoured - to evade instead of parrying - but have a bastard sword - to compensate my lack of reach.

You've just pretty much highlighted the message I was going for. HEMA and larping are similar in a sense - both exist to emulate a fantasy - either its close to historical records, or wild in the flow of imagination.

I'd try LARP but theres no groups near me, so I've never had a chance to try it out without a serious trek southwards.
But, from what I know of it, butted mail would be more than enough seeing as I've seen some people on facebook using thick wool jumpers spray painted silver.

And all of that besides, the guy got something he likes and will, hopefully, enjoy for a long time. So yeah, his mail is perfectly fine.

Another thing I'd like to mention is how much he's talking out of his arse. A) I've never heard of "hammer hardening" And while I'm not a blacksmith, I do have what could be considered bardic knowledge of it and B) flattening links does not strengthen the mail, it strengthens the links along the axis they are thickened. IE they resist opening more, which is why flattening was more common with butted mail but still used in other sorts of mail, it does help against piercing attacks, as it's harder to open the rings to pierce, but overall it's greatest effect is that over years of use and countless battles, the links would be more likely to stay secure to each other.

Well, for a large part, having one was the main thing, even just a toughened leather over a thick padding garment was an effective armour, capable of reducing damage from concussive strikes and giving limited protection against slashing strikes.
That being said, low quality chainmail was bad. If the links separated and/or broke to easily, they would likely pierce you an increase chances of infection.
But low quality chainmail was rarely made, any armourer worth the title would make decent chainmail, the quality you'd need for it to not be worth it is extremely low and actually probably harder to get than regular quality chainmail.
After that, the benefit of higher quality chainmail was that it would increase its protectiveness, obviously, meaning that in those situations you truly needed it, it did more for you. And a warrior would find himself in those situations way too frequently to risk not having the best armour he could.

The other main benefit of better, and extremely expensive in this case, mail was that weight could be reduced through better, and more expensive, alloys and different weaves/gauges/ring diameters. In larp the main benefits would likely be, awesomeness and I guess fitness, mail isn't light, even if you got those weight reductions I talked about. A standard modern hauberk would weigh about 10kg, classical & medieval era mail would weigh significantly more. So half a kilo weight off would be really helpful in battle.

It's a big mountain. The dedicated ones who want to do that can feel free. Norway and Finland are both part of Schengen anyways.

I know, but you also know that they will.

Which is sort of why we want to give it to them.

Fair enough.
Theres going to be people camping on the tip if you don't stop them though.
So they can wake up in a different country.

It's a big mountain. The dedicated ones who want to do that can feel free. Norway and Finland are both part of Schengen anyways.

I know, but you also know that they will.