Quite to the contrary, I loved most of those guys.
They acted all 'gangster' but they were all fucking hilarious.

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

although gladiators could be free, the vast VAST minority of slaves were ever allowed to be gladiators. And the desert travel for the Romans slaves is considered to be some of the worst conditions for transport considering they would walk for weeks, even months at a time considering that, statistically speaking more people contracted diseases or died while walking through the desert than riding on the ships

oh really, and you have facts to back that up? The point remains that Roman slavery doesn't greatly effect Modern America today. African slavery does.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

I didnt call you retarded I called the words you're typing and thinking are retarded. There is no point in arguing with you because YOU fail to see the points others are making or you flat out ignore them. I never said I would search family history I just said thats what she does and she knows how to find her shit so I'll ask her to find the correct number of slaves that came to AMERICA not overall.

For Burma, yeah it's happened less in raw numbers, but when it comes to proportions, it's far scarier. In 1860, roughly 13% of people in the US were slaves, while TODAY, it's estimated that nearly a quarter of the population are slaves.
And yes, I understand the conditions on the slave ships, but lets compare that to the way Romans normally transported their slaves. Imagine if you will, a long train of slaves, all walking through the desert, day in and day out, with next to no food and minimal water, while the slave traders constantly beat them. So i restate my point, it could be worse.
and the autonomous communities in India are still fairly new. before this was installed, the living conditions were similar to that of the slaves in the US.

And now back to my original point, Slavery in the US was far from the worst that has happened, and is still happening in the world today

slavery in the world today needs to stop. period. I don't see how walking through the desert is worse than conditions on slave ships, with the rape and death and disease, especially considering the fact that gladiators could EVENTUALLY BE FREE.

although gladiators could be free, the vast VAST minority of slaves were ever allowed to be gladiators. And the desert travel for the Romans slaves is considered to be some of the worst conditions for transport considering they would walk for weeks, even months at a time considering that, statistically speaking more people contracted diseases or died while walking through the desert than riding on the ships

oh really, and you have facts to back that up? The point remains that Roman slavery doesn't greatly effect Modern America today. African slavery does.

And thats fine and dandy sir but surely through reading everything you've wrote you should not only know but hopefully see, half the shit you're saying is retarded. LOL I'm sorry but you're just over all ignorant.

congratulations and just calling me retarded and not actually backing it up. Im "over all ignorant", but you have failed to prove a single point.

I didnt call you retarded I called the words you're typing and thinking are retarded. There is no point in arguing with you because YOU fail to see the points others are making or you flat out ignore them. I never said I would search family history I just said thats what she does and she knows how to find her shit so I'll ask her to find the correct number of slaves that came to AMERICA not overall.

Also why do you keep ignoring the MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE? Why don't you want to touch that? Pretty obvious why at this point.
Since one of my best friends is black I consider his opinion just like my filipino friend Ray. Who said that even though his people were wronged by the Spanish he holds no grudge because it's pointless now. It happened in the past so just get the fuck over it.
You wanna talk slavery that effects the world. Slavery in Africa certainly does. You are telling white people we need to feel guilty or at least rectify it. We don't. What the Romans did was not the Italians fault. What the Tartars did was not the Mongolians fault. What the blacks did to whites was not today's Africans fault.
Get over it already dude it's fucking stupid

The Industrial Revolution was not fueled by the cotton trade in the American South. Perhaps you should do some better research. The North had always been advocating against slavery and that the Industrial Revolution started in the North where there were no slaves. States didn't benefit off the economies of other states. That is just so stupid.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/22a.asp
The NORTH DIDN'T HAVE SLAVERY! Are you idiotic? The Irish worked for shit wages in shitty conditions, worse than the blacks. But that has nothing to do at all with your point. It had nothing to do with the blacks at all

How have we not benefited? Oh let's see only the US South actually had slaves, which in turn only affected THEIR economies, not the North's. It isn't relevant because the agriculture that made the US a superpower and still today was conducted by the German farmers that mostly grew wheat and corn. NOT SLAVES! The plantations of the South have no relevance on the industry of the US. Nor did it after the Civil War. Could you even provide a reason why it does? Because the US economy is mostly based on agriculture (again corn, wheat and rice not grown by slaves) and technology.
After the Civil War the US became primarily an INDUSTRIAL country that made it's wealth on the labor of the workers and off of oil.

You know who are the most racists? Blacks. Why'd you ignore my statement about the attacks on whites in Baltimore which is happening to this day? The blacks who kill whites for fun in L.A or Chicago? Racism exists in EVERY race you fucking idiot.
You know what the #1 reason for Neo-Nazis is? They were white kids that were persecuted against blacks and yet no one stood up for them. Congrats retard.
Black do whine because they blame all white people for what happened rather than take the words of Martin Luther King to heart and just forgive and forget

so I guess cotton had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth garnered by the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr6.html

The modern slave trade, in any form, is a travesty, I have never doubted that. So is violence against anybody based on race. But cherry-picking a couple of instances of blacks attacking whites STILL leaves you ignoring the GIGANTIC levels of violence against blacks. and WOW you seriously just used the "I have a black friend" argument? That has become a cliche cover statement for people to say racist shit, I would have that even YOU wouldn't use that.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

Okay I'll do you one better. I didn't use Wiki but whatever. My sister in law works for the national archives, she's the one who finds out family history out and helps others do so. I'll ask her to pull everything up for you. Her having a masters in archival studies should surely help.

and you think they expertly recorded the family histories of slaves?! LOL. nice dropping your sisters credentials, you wouldn't need to do so if your argument could stand on its own merits. I am working on my PhD at Columbia in American History right now, so we can both play this game.

And thats fine and dandy sir but surely through reading everything you've wrote you should not only know but hopefully see, half the shit you're saying is retarded. LOL I'm sorry but you're just over all ignorant.

congratulations and just calling me retarded and not actually backing it up. Im "over all ignorant", but you have failed to prove a single point.

I didnt call you retarded I called the words you're typing and thinking are retarded. There is no point in arguing with you because YOU fail to see the points others are making or you flat out ignore them. I never said I would search family history I just said thats what she does and she knows how to find her shit so I'll ask her to find the correct number of slaves that came to AMERICA not overall.

Really? How man black people do you encounter on a daily basis that are thugs, murderers and rappers?
Ooh! I can actually answer this one!
Literally all but three of the black kids in my school were like that.

oh at your school, yes your school is a great sample for the overall population. All black people must all be assholes just because of their skin color. Enjoy your racism the rest of your life, I can't wait until your prejudice fucks you over.

Quite to the contrary, I loved most of those guys.
They acted all 'gangster' but they were all fucking hilarious.

Yes, yes it did!
Blacks aren't overly discriminated against in the US? That's a load of horse shit. And yeah maybe you should study Russian history. Like oh I don't know the White Cannel, or the Ukraine Famine.
My family benefits off slavery? How? My dad who works for his living, my great grand parents who fled Germany to be farmers, or on my mother's side my great grandfather who was chased out of Ireland never allowed to return again because the British found out he was working for the IRA?
This country got so rich BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION!!!
Are you honestly that fucking stupid? Slavery ended in the 1860s you idiot. The US wasn't even a major world power then. It didn't become one until they defeated the Spanish in the Spanish-American War in 1898! Then WWII and the fact that the US was the largest producer of steel, wheat and corn probably helped.
No I certainly didn't. The genocide of Natives? Please read about the American Indian Wars because you clearly are an idiot.
Yeah they happened. It's happened all over the world. Name one country where it didn't happen at one point in time.

RACISM hasn't stopped in this country but you and I both know that it is greatly frowned upon. You respond with opinions I provide resources. You say blacks are continued to be mistreated, when there are plenty of organizations and government mandates that say otherwise. You say white should feel guilty but completely ignore the fact that slavery exists and has existed all over the world since the dawn of man. Regardless of how they were "treated" everyone has been wronged. You who persecute an entire race because the actions of a minority is dumbfounding.
You don't even know the basic history of this country if you honestly don't even realize that it was the hard work of the Industrial Revolution (mostly the discriminated against Irish) that made this country what it is today.
That is what makes you an idiot. The uneducated opinions of a completely brainwashed moron

again, you are ignoring my point. The Industrial revolution was FUELED by the cotton trade in the American South.America couldn't even begin to be in the positions of power it was in in the Spanish-American War and World War II if it didn't have northern manufacturing driving the industrial revolution, which was driven by SLAVERY. The ubiquity of slavery doesn't mean that all slavery is equal. You still have not demonstrated how slavery in the United States isn't relevant to today's world. Racism may be PUBLICLY frowned upon, but it is still very much practiced. Ask ANY black person. But oh, I bet you would say that their opinions don't matter in this debate. I don't say feel guilty, I DO say have some more empathy and don't always write off racism as "black people whining". Again, you ignore my point that, yes, everyone has been wronged, but in no instance do you cite a period of slavery that effects a modern country like the slave trade in the United States or other American nations. I am not for persecuting an entire race, I don't even know where you got that from. If you think white in this country are persecuted, people who overwhelmingly control political and economic power, than you are sorely misinformed.

Also why do you keep ignoring the MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE? Why don't you want to touch that? Pretty obvious why at this point.
Since one of my best friends is black I consider his opinion just like my filipino friend Ray. Who said that even though his people were wronged by the Spanish he holds no grudge because it's pointless now. It happened in the past so just get the fuck over it.
You wanna talk slavery that effects the world. Slavery in Africa certainly does. You are telling white people we need to feel guilty or at least rectify it. We don't. What the Romans did was not the Italians fault. What the Tartars did was not the Mongolians fault. What the blacks did to whites was not today's Africans fault.
Get over it already dude it's fucking stupid

The Industrial Revolution was not fueled by the cotton trade in the American South. Perhaps you should do some better research. The North had always been advocating against slavery and that the Industrial Revolution started in the North where there were no slaves. States didn't benefit off the economies of other states. That is just so stupid.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/22a.asp
The NORTH DIDN'T HAVE SLAVERY! Are you idiotic? The Irish worked for shit wages in shitty conditions, worse than the blacks. But that has nothing to do at all with your point. It had nothing to do with the blacks at all

How have we not benefited? Oh let's see only the US South actually had slaves, which in turn only affected THEIR economies, not the North's. It isn't relevant because the agriculture that made the US a superpower and still today was conducted by the German farmers that mostly grew wheat and corn. NOT SLAVES! The plantations of the South have no relevance on the industry of the US. Nor did it after the Civil War. Could you even provide a reason why it does? Because the US economy is mostly based on agriculture (again corn, wheat and rice not grown by slaves) and technology.
After the Civil War the US became primarily an INDUSTRIAL country that made it's wealth on the labor of the workers and off of oil.

You know who are the most racists? Blacks. Why'd you ignore my statement about the attacks on whites in Baltimore which is happening to this day? The blacks who kill whites for fun in L.A or Chicago? Racism exists in EVERY race you fucking idiot.
You know what the #1 reason for Neo-Nazis is? They were white kids that were persecuted against blacks and yet no one stood up for them. Congrats retard.
Black do whine because they blame all white people for what happened rather than take the words of Martin Luther King to heart and just forgive and forget

so I guess cotton had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth garnered by the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr6.html

The modern slave trade, in any form, is a travesty, I have never doubted that. So is violence against anybody based on race. But cherry-picking a couple of instances of blacks attacking whites STILL leaves you ignoring the GIGANTIC levels of violence against blacks. and WOW you seriously just used the "I have a black friend" argument? That has become a cliche cover statement for people to say racist shit, I would have that even YOU wouldn't use that.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

Yeah because the AFRICANS STARTED THE SLAVE TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE! So they still have slaves in Africa. And once again you continue to choose to ignore today's MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE!

Cherry picking? You've been cherry picking what you've wanted this entire time. The TRANSATLANTIC Slave Trade went to Brazil, Central America and other parts of the world NOT just the US. So stop trying to lump all of them together as though it was just America with the slaves


Secondly this went from us not having to feel white guilt and you trying to justify it. No sir I don't feel guilty because as history clearly shows EVERYONE was slaves at one point. Why haven't you looked up the Tartar slave trade and what they did to the WHITES in Russia? You know why they don't bitch about it? Because it's fucking over you stupid fuck.
http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-slavery.php

My family never benefited off of it. I shouldn't feel guilty for what a small minority of what people did. Just as someone else shouldn't feel obligated to feel guilty or rectify anything. No one gave anyone else compensation and no one should. I certainly shouldn't and neither should you. If someone's family owned slaves than maybe you can try to guilt trip them but the sins of the father are NOT the son's to bear. So kindly get educated and fuck off.

I hope you can at least study slavery in other parts of the world because your ignorance is mind blowing

ok, but again YOU are ignoring things here. has the Tartar slave trade fundamentally altered the path of Russian society to this day? Are Russians in Russia overwhelmingly discriminated against because they are Russian? No, in fact the reverse is opposite today. You citing the fact that the rest of the Americas was engaged in the slave trade only reinforces my argument. Your family benefits off of slavery RIGHT now. How do you think this country got so rich in the first place? We both benefit from the genocide of Native Americans and Black slavery. You may not want to feel guilty, but at least acknowledge that these horrible injustices occurred, and continue to have an effect in 2012. You keeping calling me stupid and ignorant, as if this somehow reinforces your argument, but in reality you are the ignorant one for thinking that the legacies of slavery and Jim Crow are still not with us. Please, tell me at what moment racism stopped in this country?

Yes, yes it did!
Blacks aren't overly discriminated against in the US? That's a load of horse shit. And yeah maybe you should study Russian history. Like oh I don't know the White Cannel, or the Ukraine Famine.
My family benefits off slavery? How? My dad who works for his living, my great grand parents who fled Germany to be farmers, or on my mother's side my great grandfather who was chased out of Ireland never allowed to return again because the British found out he was working for the IRA?
This country got so rich BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION!!!
Are you honestly that fucking stupid? Slavery ended in the 1860s you idiot. The US wasn't even a major world power then. It didn't become one until they defeated the Spanish in the Spanish-American War in 1898! Then WWII and the fact that the US was the largest producer of steel, wheat and corn probably helped.
No I certainly didn't. The genocide of Natives? Please read about the American Indian Wars because you clearly are an idiot.
Yeah they happened. It's happened all over the world. Name one country where it didn't happen at one point in time.

RACISM hasn't stopped in this country but you and I both know that it is greatly frowned upon. You respond with opinions I provide resources. You say blacks are continued to be mistreated, when there are plenty of organizations and government mandates that say otherwise. You say white should feel guilty but completely ignore the fact that slavery exists and has existed all over the world since the dawn of man. Regardless of how they were "treated" everyone has been wronged. You who persecute an entire race because the actions of a minority is dumbfounding.
You don't even know the basic history of this country if you honestly don't even realize that it was the hard work of the Industrial Revolution (mostly the discriminated against Irish) that made this country what it is today.
That is what makes you an idiot. The uneducated opinions of a completely brainwashed moron

again, you are ignoring my point. The Industrial revolution was FUELED by the cotton trade in the American South.America couldn't even begin to be in the positions of power it was in in the Spanish-American War and World War II if it didn't have northern manufacturing driving the industrial revolution, which was driven by SLAVERY. The ubiquity of slavery doesn't mean that all slavery is equal. You still have not demonstrated how slavery in the United States isn't relevant to today's world. Racism may be PUBLICLY frowned upon, but it is still very much practiced. Ask ANY black person. But oh, I bet you would say that their opinions don't matter in this debate. I don't say feel guilty, I DO say have some more empathy and don't always write off racism as "black people whining". Again, you ignore my point that, yes, everyone has been wronged, but in no instance do you cite a period of slavery that effects a modern country like the slave trade in the United States or other American nations. I am not for persecuting an entire race, I don't even know where you got that from. If you think white in this country are persecuted, people who overwhelmingly control political and economic power, than you are sorely misinformed.

Also why do you keep ignoring the MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE? Why don't you want to touch that? Pretty obvious why at this point.
Since one of my best friends is black I consider his opinion just like my filipino friend Ray. Who said that even though his people were wronged by the Spanish he holds no grudge because it's pointless now. It happened in the past so just get the fuck over it.
You wanna talk slavery that effects the world. Slavery in Africa certainly does. You are telling white people we need to feel guilty or at least rectify it. We don't. What the Romans did was not the Italians fault. What the Tartars did was not the Mongolians fault. What the blacks did to whites was not today's Africans fault.
Get over it already dude it's fucking stupid

The Industrial Revolution was not fueled by the cotton trade in the American South. Perhaps you should do some better research. The North had always been advocating against slavery and that the Industrial Revolution started in the North where there were no slaves. States didn't benefit off the economies of other states. That is just so stupid.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/22a.asp
The NORTH DIDN'T HAVE SLAVERY! Are you idiotic? The Irish worked for shit wages in shitty conditions, worse than the blacks. But that has nothing to do at all with your point. It had nothing to do with the blacks at all

How have we not benefited? Oh let's see only the US South actually had slaves, which in turn only affected THEIR economies, not the North's. It isn't relevant because the agriculture that made the US a superpower and still today was conducted by the German farmers that mostly grew wheat and corn. NOT SLAVES! The plantations of the South have no relevance on the industry of the US. Nor did it after the Civil War. Could you even provide a reason why it does? Because the US economy is mostly based on agriculture (again corn, wheat and rice not grown by slaves) and technology.
After the Civil War the US became primarily an INDUSTRIAL country that made it's wealth on the labor of the workers and off of oil.

You know who are the most racists? Blacks. Why'd you ignore my statement about the attacks on whites in Baltimore which is happening to this day? The blacks who kill whites for fun in L.A or Chicago? Racism exists in EVERY race you fucking idiot.
You know what the #1 reason for Neo-Nazis is? They were white kids that were persecuted against blacks and yet no one stood up for them. Congrats retard.
Black do whine because they blame all white people for what happened rather than take the words of Martin Luther King to heart and just forgive and forget

so I guess cotton had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth garnered by the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr6.html

The modern slave trade, in any form, is a travesty, I have never doubted that. So is violence against anybody based on race. But cherry-picking a couple of instances of blacks attacking whites STILL leaves you ignoring the GIGANTIC levels of violence against blacks. and WOW you seriously just used the "I have a black friend" argument? That has become a cliche cover statement for people to say racist shit, I would have that even YOU wouldn't use that.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

"...of these 10 million estimated dead blacks, possibly 6 million were killed by other blacks in African tribal wars and raiding parties aimed at securing slaves for transport to America"
Facts. Got them.

but according to what estimate? congratulations on using Wikipedia, whose article on the trans-Atlantic slave trade uses outdated sources with poor estimations and incomplete sources. Most historians today acknowledge that the number is between 15-20 Million.

Okay I'll do you one better. I didn't use Wiki but whatever. My sister in law works for the national archives, she's the one who finds out family history out and helps others do so. I'll ask her to pull everything up for you. Her having a masters in archival studies should surely help.

and you think they expertly recorded the family histories of slaves?! LOL. nice dropping your sisters credentials, you wouldn't need to do so if your argument could stand on its own merits. I am working on my PhD at Columbia in American History right now, so we can both play this game.

And thats fine and dandy sir but surely through reading everything you've wrote you should not only know but hopefully see, half the shit you're saying is retarded. LOL I'm sorry but you're just over all ignorant.

congratulations and just calling me retarded and not actually backing it up. Im "over all ignorant", but you have failed to prove a single point.

I didnt call you retarded I called the words you're typing and thinking are retarded. There is no point in arguing with you because YOU fail to see the points others are making or you flat out ignore them. I never said I would search family history I just said thats what she does and she knows how to find her shit so I'll ask her to find the correct number of slaves that came to AMERICA not overall.

Wait, you think that the US slave trade had the largest amount of deaths? Have you heard of a little country called India? Not only does India have slaves, but over the course of history hundreds of millions of people have died in slavery, so the 15 million African slaves in the US, while still sad, doesn't seem like the worst. How about Burma? Although not as many slaves, the government in Burma regularly enslaves it's own citizens.
You also must realize that, although they didn't have the best treatment, the African slaves in the US were not treated as bad as they could have been.
Once again, I'm not saying that the slavery in the US was reasonable, but compared to other point in history, and even modern-day slavery for that matter, it wasn't as bad as you're making it seem

wasn't as bad? You yourself 1: admit that in Burma the slave trade (which is actually more like government abuse) happened in less great numbers. 2: It wasn't as bad as it could have been? Have you EVER read about the conditions on a slave ship? They raped the women and children (including boys) to make them docile, packed them shoulder to shoulder to the point they couldn't move, whipped them vicisouly and even would CUT BABIES out of their mothers just to instill fear in the slaves. In India, the caste system pales in comparisons, where "untouchables" were allowed to live in autonomous communities.

For Burma, yeah it's happened less in raw numbers, but when it comes to proportions, it's far scarier. In 1860, roughly 13% of people in the US were slaves, while TODAY, it's estimated that nearly a quarter of the population are slaves.
And yes, I understand the conditions on the slave ships, but lets compare that to the way Romans normally transported their slaves. Imagine if you will, a long train of slaves, all walking through the desert, day in and day out, with next to no food and minimal water, while the slave traders constantly beat them. So i restate my point, it could be worse.
and the autonomous communities in India are still fairly new. before this was installed, the living conditions were similar to that of the slaves in the US.

And now back to my original point, Slavery in the US was far from the worst that has happened, and is still happening in the world today

slavery in the world today needs to stop. period. I don't see how walking through the desert is worse than conditions on slave ships, with the rape and death and disease, especially considering the fact that gladiators could EVENTUALLY BE FREE.

although gladiators could be free, the vast VAST minority of slaves were ever allowed to be gladiators. And the desert travel for the Romans slaves is considered to be some of the worst conditions for transport considering they would walk for weeks, even months at a time considering that, statistically speaking more people contracted diseases or died while walking through the desert than riding on the ships

oh really, and you have facts to back that up? The point remains that Roman slavery doesn't greatly effect Modern America today. African slavery does.

BULL SHIT! Are you kidding me or are you really this stupid?
www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/050704.pdf
The Romans had FAR MORE slaves than the Americans you idiot! And not all fought in the gladiator fights.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

And why do you keep calling it the "American" slave trade? It wasn't just America since people went all over the two continents and to the islands.
Slaves were never considered human anywhere in the world. And perhaps you should read about slavery in Africa because you are honest to god one of the most idiotic people on this website

your own cherry picked research paper says "grand total of some two to three million slaves" in Italy in Roman times. ok, so lets go to the wikipedia article, that uses Rubenstein, a historian that estimates conservatively, and we see that he estimates 11 million people were enslaved in the Americas (this is based of an old estimation that does not include smuggled slaves after 1808). Indeed, your own article you cite alludes, in great detail, to the continuing effects of the African slaves trade, something I thought wasn't a problem anymore.

Yeah because the AFRICANS STARTED THE SLAVE TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE! So they still have slaves in Africa. And once again you continue to choose to ignore today's MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE!

Cherry picking? You've been cherry picking what you've wanted this entire time. The TRANSATLANTIC Slave Trade went to Brazil, Central America and other parts of the world NOT just the US. So stop trying to lump all of them together as though it was just America with the slaves


Secondly this went from us not having to feel white guilt and you trying to justify it. No sir I don't feel guilty because as history clearly shows EVERYONE was slaves at one point. Why haven't you looked up the Tartar slave trade and what they did to the WHITES in Russia? You know why they don't bitch about it? Because it's fucking over you stupid fuck.
http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-slavery.php

My family never benefited off of it. I shouldn't feel guilty for what a small minority of what people did. Just as someone else shouldn't feel obligated to feel guilty or rectify anything. No one gave anyone else compensation and no one should. I certainly shouldn't and neither should you. If someone's family owned slaves than maybe you can try to guilt trip them but the sins of the father are NOT the son's to bear. So kindly get educated and fuck off.

I hope you can at least study slavery in other parts of the world because your ignorance is mind blowing

ok, but again YOU are ignoring things here. has the Tartar slave trade fundamentally altered the path of Russian society to this day? Are Russians in Russia overwhelmingly discriminated against because they are Russian? No, in fact the reverse is opposite today. You citing the fact that the rest of the Americas was engaged in the slave trade only reinforces my argument. Your family benefits off of slavery RIGHT now. How do you think this country got so rich in the first place? We both benefit from the genocide of Native Americans and Black slavery. You may not want to feel guilty, but at least acknowledge that these horrible injustices occurred, and continue to have an effect in 2012. You keeping calling me stupid and ignorant, as if this somehow reinforces your argument, but in reality you are the ignorant one for thinking that the legacies of slavery and Jim Crow are still not with us. Please, tell me at what moment racism stopped in this country?

Yes, yes it did!
Blacks aren't overly discriminated against in the US? That's a load of horse shit. And yeah maybe you should study Russian history. Like oh I don't know the White Cannel, or the Ukraine Famine.
My family benefits off slavery? How? My dad who works for his living, my great grand parents who fled Germany to be farmers, or on my mother's side my great grandfather who was chased out of Ireland never allowed to return again because the British found out he was working for the IRA?
This country got so rich BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION!!!
Are you honestly that fucking stupid? Slavery ended in the 1860s you idiot. The US wasn't even a major world power then. It didn't become one until they defeated the Spanish in the Spanish-American War in 1898! Then WWII and the fact that the US was the largest producer of steel, wheat and corn probably helped.
No I certainly didn't. The genocide of Natives? Please read about the American Indian Wars because you clearly are an idiot.
Yeah they happened. It's happened all over the world. Name one country where it didn't happen at one point in time.

RACISM hasn't stopped in this country but you and I both know that it is greatly frowned upon. You respond with opinions I provide resources. You say blacks are continued to be mistreated, when there are plenty of organizations and government mandates that say otherwise. You say white should feel guilty but completely ignore the fact that slavery exists and has existed all over the world since the dawn of man. Regardless of how they were "treated" everyone has been wronged. You who persecute an entire race because the actions of a minority is dumbfounding.
You don't even know the basic history of this country if you honestly don't even realize that it was the hard work of the Industrial Revolution (mostly the discriminated against Irish) that made this country what it is today.
That is what makes you an idiot. The uneducated opinions of a completely brainwashed moron

again, you are ignoring my point. The Industrial revolution was FUELED by the cotton trade in the American South.America couldn't even begin to be in the positions of power it was in in the Spanish-American War and World War II if it didn't have northern manufacturing driving the industrial revolution, which was driven by SLAVERY. The ubiquity of slavery doesn't mean that all slavery is equal. You still have not demonstrated how slavery in the United States isn't relevant to today's world. Racism may be PUBLICLY frowned upon, but it is still very much practiced. Ask ANY black person. But oh, I bet you would say that their opinions don't matter in this debate. I don't say feel guilty, I DO say have some more empathy and don't always write off racism as "black people whining". Again, you ignore my point that, yes, everyone has been wronged, but in no instance do you cite a period of slavery that effects a modern country like the slave trade in the United States or other American nations. I am not for persecuting an entire race, I don't even know where you got that from. If you think white in this country are persecuted, people who overwhelmingly control political and economic power, than you are sorely misinformed.

Also why do you keep ignoring the MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE? Why don't you want to touch that? Pretty obvious why at this point.
Since one of my best friends is black I consider his opinion just like my filipino friend Ray. Who said that even though his people were wronged by the Spanish he holds no grudge because it's pointless now. It happened in the past so just get the fuck over it.
You wanna talk slavery that effects the world. Slavery in Africa certainly does. You are telling white people we need to feel guilty or at least rectify it. We don't. What the Romans did was not the Italians fault. What the Tartars did was not the Mongolians fault. What the blacks did to whites was not today's Africans fault.
Get over it already dude it's fucking stupid

The Industrial Revolution was not fueled by the cotton trade in the American South. Perhaps you should do some better research. The North had always been advocating against slavery and that the Industrial Revolution started in the North where there were no slaves. States didn't benefit off the economies of other states. That is just so stupid.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/22a.asp
The NORTH DIDN'T HAVE SLAVERY! Are you idiotic? The Irish worked for shit wages in shitty conditions, worse than the blacks. But that has nothing to do at all with your point. It had nothing to do with the blacks at all

How have we not benefited? Oh let's see only the US South actually had slaves, which in turn only affected THEIR economies, not the North's. It isn't relevant because the agriculture that made the US a superpower and still today was conducted by the German farmers that mostly grew wheat and corn. NOT SLAVES! The plantations of the South have no relevance on the industry of the US. Nor did it after the Civil War. Could you even provide a reason why it does? Because the US economy is mostly based on agriculture (again corn, wheat and rice not grown by slaves) and technology.
After the Civil War the US became primarily an INDUSTRIAL country that made it's wealth on the labor of the workers and off of oil.

You know who are the most racists? Blacks. Why'd you ignore my statement about the attacks on whites in Baltimore which is happening to this day? The blacks who kill whites for fun in L.A or Chicago? Racism exists in EVERY race you fucking idiot.
You know what the #1 reason for Neo-Nazis is? They were white kids that were persecuted against blacks and yet no one stood up for them. Congrats retard.
Black do whine because they blame all white people for what happened rather than take the words of Martin Luther King to heart and just forgive and forget

so I guess cotton had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth garnered by the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr6.html

The modern slave trade, in any form, is a travesty, I have never doubted that. So is violence against anybody based on race. But cherry-picking a couple of instances of blacks attacking whites STILL leaves you ignoring the GIGANTIC levels of violence against blacks. and WOW you seriously just used the "I have a black friend" argument? That has become a cliche cover statement for people to say racist shit, I would have that even YOU wouldn't use that.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

So you mean forcing people to fight to the death, constantly raping people, killing them and beating them. Maybe you should read the Bible on how the Jews treated their slaves. Maybe you should research how the Tartars treated their slaves. Perhaps you should continue to study about the WHITE slave trade that continues TO THIS DAY!
You sir are ignorant. If you think what the Americans did was the worse way slaves were treated than you are laughably stupid.
Irish weren't treated better because they were white. Perhaps you should read about Irish history. Perhaps you should read about how they treated their own slaves in Africa. Perhaps you should read about how the Mexicans treated their slaves.
It's official that I'm talking to a blatant idiot who has no sense of fucking history other than the biased bull shit that was spewed down his throat from today's society.
Forcing people to fight for to the death is somehow better than picking cotton? That's just utterly and pathetically naive. Perhaps you should research the blacks that lived in the colonies BEFORE slavery.
In American society? Yeah so were the Irish but you don't see me bitching. Do some research and study slavery in other parts of the world, or even study slavery today because you clearly are just an uneducated dipshit who has no concept of global affairs

.I never said the Irish were treated better, I said they had the OPPORTUNITY to eventually be assimilated into White America. The Roman slave trade occurred on a much smaller scale and had the opportunity for winning your freedom. The African slave trade led to the deaths of 15 million people, far less than the Roman trade. Slavery in other parts of the world never occurred on such a large scale, killed as many people, and led to the complete dehumanization of people. Even the gladiators were still considered human.

Wait, you think that the US slave trade had the largest amount of deaths? Have you heard of a little country called India? Not only does India have slaves, but over the course of history hundreds of millions of people have died in slavery, so the 15 million African slaves in the US, while still sad, doesn't seem like the worst. How about Burma? Although not as many slaves, the government in Burma regularly enslaves it's own citizens.
You also must realize that, although they didn't have the best treatment, the African slaves in the US were not treated as bad as they could have been.
Once again, I'm not saying that the slavery in the US was reasonable, but compared to other point in history, and even modern-day slavery for that matter, it wasn't as bad as you're making it seem

wasn't as bad? You yourself 1: admit that in Burma the slave trade (which is actually more like government abuse) happened in less great numbers. 2: It wasn't as bad as it could have been? Have you EVER read about the conditions on a slave ship? They raped the women and children (including boys) to make them docile, packed them shoulder to shoulder to the point they couldn't move, whipped them vicisouly and even would CUT BABIES out of their mothers just to instill fear in the slaves. In India, the caste system pales in comparisons, where "untouchables" were allowed to live in autonomous communities.

For Burma, yeah it's happened less in raw numbers, but when it comes to proportions, it's far scarier. In 1860, roughly 13% of people in the US were slaves, while TODAY, it's estimated that nearly a quarter of the population are slaves.
And yes, I understand the conditions on the slave ships, but lets compare that to the way Romans normally transported their slaves. Imagine if you will, a long train of slaves, all walking through the desert, day in and day out, with next to no food and minimal water, while the slave traders constantly beat them. So i restate my point, it could be worse.
and the autonomous communities in India are still fairly new. before this was installed, the living conditions were similar to that of the slaves in the US.

And now back to my original point, Slavery in the US was far from the worst that has happened, and is still happening in the world today

slavery in the world today needs to stop. period. I don't see how walking through the desert is worse than conditions on slave ships, with the rape and death and disease, especially considering the fact that gladiators could EVENTUALLY BE FREE.

although gladiators could be free, the vast VAST minority of slaves were ever allowed to be gladiators. And the desert travel for the Romans slaves is considered to be some of the worst conditions for transport considering they would walk for weeks, even months at a time considering that, statistically speaking more people contracted diseases or died while walking through the desert than riding on the ships

oh really, and you have facts to back that up? The point remains that Roman slavery doesn't greatly effect Modern America today. African slavery does.

BULL SHIT! Are you kidding me or are you really this stupid?
www.princeton.edu/~pswpc/pdfs/scheidel/050704.pdf
The Romans had FAR MORE slaves than the Americans you idiot! And not all fought in the gladiator fights.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

And why do you keep calling it the "American" slave trade? It wasn't just America since people went all over the two continents and to the islands.
Slaves were never considered human anywhere in the world. And perhaps you should read about slavery in Africa because you are honest to god one of the most idiotic people on this website

your own cherry picked research paper says "grand total of some two to three million slaves" in Italy in Roman times. ok, so lets go to the wikipedia article, that uses Rubenstein, a historian that estimates conservatively, and we see that he estimates 11 million people were enslaved in the Americas (this is based of an old estimation that does not include smuggled slaves after 1808). Indeed, your own article you cite alludes, in great detail, to the continuing effects of the African slaves trade, something I thought wasn't a problem anymore.

Yeah because the AFRICANS STARTED THE SLAVE TRADE IN THE FIRST PLACE! So they still have slaves in Africa. And once again you continue to choose to ignore today's MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE!

Cherry picking? You've been cherry picking what you've wanted this entire time. The TRANSATLANTIC Slave Trade went to Brazil, Central America and other parts of the world NOT just the US. So stop trying to lump all of them together as though it was just America with the slaves


Secondly this went from us not having to feel white guilt and you trying to justify it. No sir I don't feel guilty because as history clearly shows EVERYONE was slaves at one point. Why haven't you looked up the Tartar slave trade and what they did to the WHITES in Russia? You know why they don't bitch about it? Because it's fucking over you stupid fuck.
http://www.unrv.com/culture/roman-slavery.php

My family never benefited off of it. I shouldn't feel guilty for what a small minority of what people did. Just as someone else shouldn't feel obligated to feel guilty or rectify anything. No one gave anyone else compensation and no one should. I certainly shouldn't and neither should you. If someone's family owned slaves than maybe you can try to guilt trip them but the sins of the father are NOT the son's to bear. So kindly get educated and fuck off.

I hope you can at least study slavery in other parts of the world because your ignorance is mind blowing

ok, but again YOU are ignoring things here. has the Tartar slave trade fundamentally altered the path of Russian society to this day? Are Russians in Russia overwhelmingly discriminated against because they are Russian? No, in fact the reverse is opposite today. You citing the fact that the rest of the Americas was engaged in the slave trade only reinforces my argument. Your family benefits off of slavery RIGHT now. How do you think this country got so rich in the first place? We both benefit from the genocide of Native Americans and Black slavery. You may not want to feel guilty, but at least acknowledge that these horrible injustices occurred, and continue to have an effect in 2012. You keeping calling me stupid and ignorant, as if this somehow reinforces your argument, but in reality you are the ignorant one for thinking that the legacies of slavery and Jim Crow are still not with us. Please, tell me at what moment racism stopped in this country?

Yes, yes it did!
Blacks aren't overly discriminated against in the US? That's a load of horse shit. And yeah maybe you should study Russian history. Like oh I don't know the White Cannel, or the Ukraine Famine.
My family benefits off slavery? How? My dad who works for his living, my great grand parents who fled Germany to be farmers, or on my mother's side my great grandfather who was chased out of Ireland never allowed to return again because the British found out he was working for the IRA?
This country got so rich BECAUSE OF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION!!!
Are you honestly that fucking stupid? Slavery ended in the 1860s you idiot. The US wasn't even a major world power then. It didn't become one until they defeated the Spanish in the Spanish-American War in 1898! Then WWII and the fact that the US was the largest producer of steel, wheat and corn probably helped.
No I certainly didn't. The genocide of Natives? Please read about the American Indian Wars because you clearly are an idiot.
Yeah they happened. It's happened all over the world. Name one country where it didn't happen at one point in time.

RACISM hasn't stopped in this country but you and I both know that it is greatly frowned upon. You respond with opinions I provide resources. You say blacks are continued to be mistreated, when there are plenty of organizations and government mandates that say otherwise. You say white should feel guilty but completely ignore the fact that slavery exists and has existed all over the world since the dawn of man. Regardless of how they were "treated" everyone has been wronged. You who persecute an entire race because the actions of a minority is dumbfounding.
You don't even know the basic history of this country if you honestly don't even realize that it was the hard work of the Industrial Revolution (mostly the discriminated against Irish) that made this country what it is today.
That is what makes you an idiot. The uneducated opinions of a completely brainwashed moron

again, you are ignoring my point. The Industrial revolution was FUELED by the cotton trade in the American South.America couldn't even begin to be in the positions of power it was in in the Spanish-American War and World War II if it didn't have northern manufacturing driving the industrial revolution, which was driven by SLAVERY. The ubiquity of slavery doesn't mean that all slavery is equal. You still have not demonstrated how slavery in the United States isn't relevant to today's world. Racism may be PUBLICLY frowned upon, but it is still very much practiced. Ask ANY black person. But oh, I bet you would say that their opinions don't matter in this debate. I don't say feel guilty, I DO say have some more empathy and don't always write off racism as "black people whining". Again, you ignore my point that, yes, everyone has been wronged, but in no instance do you cite a period of slavery that effects a modern country like the slave trade in the United States or other American nations. I am not for persecuting an entire race, I don't even know where you got that from. If you think white in this country are persecuted, people who overwhelmingly control political and economic power, than you are sorely misinformed.

Also why do you keep ignoring the MODERN WHITE SLAVE TRADE? Why don't you want to touch that? Pretty obvious why at this point.
Since one of my best friends is black I consider his opinion just like my filipino friend Ray. Who said that even though his people were wronged by the Spanish he holds no grudge because it's pointless now. It happened in the past so just get the fuck over it.
You wanna talk slavery that effects the world. Slavery in Africa certainly does. You are telling white people we need to feel guilty or at least rectify it. We don't. What the Romans did was not the Italians fault. What the Tartars did was not the Mongolians fault. What the blacks did to whites was not today's Africans fault.
Get over it already dude it's fucking stupid

The Industrial Revolution was not fueled by the cotton trade in the American South. Perhaps you should do some better research. The North had always been advocating against slavery and that the Industrial Revolution started in the North where there were no slaves. States didn't benefit off the economies of other states. That is just so stupid.
http://www.ushistory.org/us/22a.asp
The NORTH DIDN'T HAVE SLAVERY! Are you idiotic? The Irish worked for shit wages in shitty conditions, worse than the blacks. But that has nothing to do at all with your point. It had nothing to do with the blacks at all

How have we not benefited? Oh let's see only the US South actually had slaves, which in turn only affected THEIR economies, not the North's. It isn't relevant because the agriculture that made the US a superpower and still today was conducted by the German farmers that mostly grew wheat and corn. NOT SLAVES! The plantations of the South have no relevance on the industry of the US. Nor did it after the Civil War. Could you even provide a reason why it does? Because the US economy is mostly based on agriculture (again corn, wheat and rice not grown by slaves) and technology.
After the Civil War the US became primarily an INDUSTRIAL country that made it's wealth on the labor of the workers and off of oil.

You know who are the most racists? Blacks. Why'd you ignore my statement about the attacks on whites in Baltimore which is happening to this day? The blacks who kill whites for fun in L.A or Chicago? Racism exists in EVERY race you fucking idiot.
You know what the #1 reason for Neo-Nazis is? They were white kids that were persecuted against blacks and yet no one stood up for them. Congrats retard.
Black do whine because they blame all white people for what happened rather than take the words of Martin Luther King to heart and just forgive and forget

so I guess cotton had nothing to do with the fabulous wealth garnered by the Industrial Revolution.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part3/3narr6.html

The modern slave trade, in any form, is a travesty, I have never doubted that. So is violence against anybody based on race. But cherry-picking a couple of instances of blacks attacking whites STILL leaves you ignoring the GIGANTIC levels of violence against blacks. and WOW you seriously just used the "I have a black friend" argument? That has become a cliche cover statement for people to say racist shit, I would have that even YOU wouldn't use that.

Again 1793 is your argument? When I clearly said that it was AFTER the Civil War. Actually no I said it was AFTER the Spanish-American war.
And I like how it referred to the SOUTHER ECONOMIES. Not the North. You imbecile.
My black friend(s) also agree that people need to get over the fact. You weren't calling me racist which would work to your advantage. But since Terry, Matt and Andrew all agree that people like you should just shut the fuck up I think that works in my favor.
The GIGANTIC levels of violence. You mean like the lynching and killing people in the streets? Oh wait that was the Irish
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

How about this?
http://www.newnation.org/NNN-Black-on-White.html
www.wnd.com/2012/05/more-blacks-arrested-in-mob-attack-on-whites/
www.theblaze.com/stories/new-black-panther-field-marshal-whites-should-be-thankful-were-not-hanging-crackers-by-nooses-yet-yet-yet/

No racism isn't cool, but allowing the persecution of any race because of past events is WRONG! You try to justify white guilt and cry about how bad whites were. Well it goes both way man, and quite honestly this shit shouldn't be tolerated by either race. So whites harmed blacks, blacks are now harming whites. Time for you fucking idiots to get over what happened 200 years ago and learn to leave people the fuck alone with your bull shit

read the New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, START there, and then get back to me.

Again THAT'S THE SOUTH
Fucking idiot

no, the book is about conditions throughout the country, not the South. Racism wasn't exclusive to the South, look at housing covenants up North. You are seriously myopic if you think that institutional racism was confined to below the Mason-Dixon line. maybe you could actually read it instead of immediately dismissing it because it doesn't agree with world-view?

Why don't you look on how the Irish lived during those times? or ANY immigrants. The blacks weren't the only ones that had it bad.
GET FUCKING EDUCATED

oh, so blacks are not attacked by whites anymore? I wasn't aware, I didn't know that white people in America were being persecuted in the country. Just because ONE black person agrees with you doesn't make your ideas right. There were Jews that thought Hitler was right, too. YOU continue to ignore that history in America doesn't start in 1898, or 1945. There are links back to everything, and previous events, especially the massive event that was the slave trade, don't end with the Civil War. Ever heard of Jim Crow? Or the fact that blacks couldn't vote until the 1960s? And YES I AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU ABOUT THE FUCKING IRISH. They were fucked over badly back then. The key word being BACK THEN. Today, there is no widespread discrimination against Irish people. But blacks? You ever been in a police station break room?! I hear "nigger" in there more than a rap video. You refuse to acknowledge that racism is still widespread today, and use your self-imposed ignorance to not feel guilty. You miss the point that you shouldn't feel guilty, you should at least acknowledge conditions in modern America, their link the the past and try to support moving forward, instead of pretending that everything is ok now and "lalalala racism against blacks doesn't exist anymore!!!!"

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-psychological-effects-slavery-modern-american-352970 .html?cat=37

[url deleted] tm

Or the fact that you completely IGNORED MY ENTIRE LAST PARAGRAPH!
One? Try three? Try Ray the Filipino. Try MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.
So what if it doesn't start in 1898 that has NOTHING to do with the fucking point that you made. "How did this country get so rich." Not until the Industry of the 20th century you fucking idiot. You got your answer to your question but then completely ignore the question it was given to adding it on to another point entirely.
If you don't like being proven wrong then fine, and if you don't want answers than don't ask questions.
Blacks didn't have the right to vote until the 1960s?!?!?
www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/
Try 1866 you fucking idiot.
"The key word being BACK THEN!"
Oh congrats you finally realized the fucking point I was making and the whole reason why I say I DON'T HOLD A FUCKING GRUDE! Jesus dude really? I mean really? I told you I don't hold a grudge to the British for what they did because it happened so long ago. Fuck
What you're a policeman now? So some police officers are racists that doesn't exclude the point where i said EVERYONE of EVERY ethnicity is racists you fucking idiot.
You refuse? No I didn't. Go back to my comments and point out one time I said. Now you're desperately trying to set up a straw man argument. Half of what you said is bull shit that I NEVER even said.
"You shouldn't feel guilty."
Need I remind you to go to your first comment?
"But no, continue to over-simplify the complex range of experiences Black Americans go through everyday because you don't want to feel guilty."
Why don't you go back and re-read the Martin Luther King and Sherman Alexie quotes I sent you stupid fuck. This entire time I've been saying we need to move forward, but you're the one that keeps living in the past. Forgive and forget. I must have said that at least 3 times in this discussion already
Fuck do you even read ANY of the comments? Or just pick what you want? This is pathetic

yes, because Martin Luther King was king of the black people and spoke for every single individual. you are seriously stupid if you believe blacks could vote in 1866. Have you not ever heard of Jim Crow? Have you not heard of the Voting Rights Act? Why are you not addressing the fact that Irish racism doesn't exist anymore, but anti-black racism does? And no, but my two older brothers are policemen. Lets say that all blacks "forget and forgive" as you say. Doesn't change the fact that there are still huge amounts of prejudice in this country. Shit may go "both ways" but you are setting up a false equality argument. Whites overwhelmingly control political and economic power in this country, so racism against blacks is more egregious in that it is like kicking someone while they are down. I'm not "living in the past". I am simply acknowledging that the past plays a HUGE role in the conditions of the present. Martin Luther King was right that we should love our fellow man, not hate, etc. But you keep twisting his quotes to support your "white people are victims" argument. If it goes both ways, you can't ignore the racism that effects blacks. And I am not talking about holding a grudge, I am talking about blaming a black man for a shitty position he may be in, without regarding all of history that put him there.

I love how you keep saying how many points you have refuted, but you have not refuted any. Seriously, what have you refuted? that the 15th amendment didn't exist (which I never said)? congratulations on having no knowledge about conditions on the ground throughout the United States, where there was so much disenfranchisement as to render the 15th amendment void. Congratulations on using semantics to say I was wrong, when you know god damn well that their is a HUGE difference between having the right to vote in an abstract sense and being able to actually do it. Good job also completely ducking my sickle-cell point.I love how you cite Robert Croons, an extremely biased historian with flawed research methods and cherry-picked statistics. The books I have provided are by established scholars, not civil war revisionists. You are completely missing my point about slavery (you say it was started by Africans, yet you earlier cited Roman slavery, way to contradict yourself). The slavery practiced in the United States was not the slavery practiced in in Africa, where a slave was more of a bondsmen and a member of the familial unit. Read the books I provided, then get back to me. They completely demonstrate, through statistics gathered from non-partisan sources (seriously, check the footnotes) how institutionally fucked minority america is. And you just want to pretend that the measly amount of money that goes to welfare (while banks and farmers get trillions to not do shit) means that blacks are just lazy and any hardship they suffer isn't from built-in obstacles based on race, but from their own failings.

No it wasn't founded on white supremacy. It was started by the Africans who sold their own people into slavery. No it wasn't supported by the majority of whites. The US isn't a Democracy it's REPUBLIC!
You know why it took so long? Because the South said that they would refuse to join in the Revolution if the North pushed to abolish slavery, which was greatly supported in the North, which is why the North abolished slavery so long before it. Sure it was because it wasn't good soil to farm. You realize that it was done BY COLONY/STATE?
It had always been a major issue in the US prior to the Revolution itself.
Oh a disease? Yes because they had the same knowledge of disease back then. That's ridiculous. Arguing for empathy and sympathy? Everyone has equal opportunity in this country. Don't BS me about numbers. 78% of the country is white so of course more white people are going to have high positions or be in college.
Oh you think I'm there because I think they are "inferior?"
Probably because of unfortunate circumstances. What the fuck is it with you and the Irish? SHUT THE FUCK UP! It has to do with the fact that EVERYONE has been mistreated and that you should stop trying to guilt trip everyone.
Slavery HASN'T ended. Did you forget the fact that there is still slavery in Africa?

How about you acknowledge the fact that everyone has been mistreated and that trying to make people feel guilty about the actions of others is stupid.

read these books and then get back to me

Slavery by Another Name: The Re-Enslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to World War II

The New Jim Crow

Racism without Racists: Color-Blind Racism and the Persistence of Racial Inequality in America

everyone has equal opportunity in this country! HA don't make me laugh. You're saying that a crack baby born in the South-Side of L.A., already with an addiction, with PTSD from gang shootings, with a classroom with 60 kids, has the SAME chances to succeed as a rich white kid?! You seriously need to leave suburban Phoenix and see how the other half lives. And no, the slave trade in Africa was NOT started by Africans. it was a form of familial servitude in which a person was adopted into the family. It was much less systematic and dehumanizing, until the Europeans came needing laborers to replace the Indians that died on their plantations. What are you even saying about Sickle-Cell? You sound incoherent. Whether intentional or not, that disease resulted from the slave trade, a disease that thousands suffer from to this to day. A majority of the people in the North supported slavery until a little before the Civil War, the elected officials in America supported it, the American people supported it. I have already acknowledged everyone has been mistreated. Why don't YOU acknowledge that non-white minorities in this country are still greatly discriminated against and get the fuck out of your bubble. Read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander and get fucking educated. It's hilarious that you think everyone has the same life circumstances as you and starts on equal footing in life.

Yeah that's why there's no reply button. My Mabbookpro which has had literally NO problems before must totally be acting up in this literal ONE instant. Or perhaps you're just trying to further bull shit you're way out of it.
I never ignored racism towards blacks. My argument was CLEARLY that EVERYONE is racists so acting like one group should be feel guilty is utter horse shit. Never ignored it, in fact I had to say it at least 6 times to you and yet you CHOOSE not to listen.
"an extremely large number of whites supported it."
So the fuck what? Most people didn't give a shit. But how does that even fucking disprove the point that BLACK people also had slaves? It doesn't. That means BLACKS also supported it. What does that have to do with anything? "Hurr durr white people supported it."
Some Germans supported HItler that doesn't mean we have to hate all Germans, especially now for that. That's the biggest load of horseshit you can spew on here. Some Japanese people supported the rapes and murder of Nanking, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to HATE all of them for it. The same goes for the British holocausts around the world. It's a pathetically stupid argument for you to make.

You refuse to acknowledge EVERYONE is guilty of racism. Therefore pointing out that white people should fully feel guilty or that some how blacks should be treated better is retarded. And lets be honest that's EXACTLY what you are saying when you say we should "rectify" them. Guess what it's called public school. Guess what? They have more scholarships for African Americans than whites.

Yes it has links to the past, I never denied it but you consistently ignore the reality that we have to move on and stop focusing on the past and not punish everyone for the actions of a few. That's just retared

I'm not denying that everyone's heritage has racism in it, but how can you say "so what" to whites supporting slavery? Their support is the reason slavery was able to last so long. If only 1.9% of people supported slavery, it wouldn't last very long, especially in a democracy, now would it? Again, you are employing a false-equality argument. There may have been a VERY FEW black slave owners, but that doesn't refute the fact that slavery was founded upon white supremacy. Those few blacks were just able to take advantage of rare opportunities. I am not arguing for hate, I am arguing for understanding and empathy. Sickle-cell anemia, for example, still overwhelmingly effects the black community. This is a disease that RESULTED from slavery. Slavery ended not so long ago, and the effects are still being felt, unlike in other situations, such as anti-Irish racism, that largely ended when "Irish" became synonymous with "white" (something black people will never have the opportunity to do. Blacks shouldn't be "treated better" than whites. But the next time you see a black man in poverty, don't automatically assume that he is there because he is inferior .

So you tried to block me? That's utterly pathetic and such a bitch move! You pathetic worthless trash
historyengine.richmond.edu/episodes/view/1078
Just because they TRIED to hold the black man down didn't mean that they still didn't have the RIGHT to vote. They tried many times but blacks still had the right to vote according to the 15h Amendment. You are a fucking retarded piece of shit.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. People need to move the fuck on but you still act like white people owe blacks something. For what? For the literally 1.4% of white that owned slaves? What about the BLACKS that owned slaves during this time? Maybe you blocked me once you saw what the facts said you piece of shit.

No it doesn't justify anything and that was NEVER THE FUCKING POINT! That's been YOU'RE straw-man argument this entire time. People need to move on. No one is responsible for the actions of other people that happened 150 years ago. Blacks are just as racist against whites. The whole point is that you've been trying to guilt trip EVERYONE into believing you BULL SHIT!
"So a few black slave owners."
YES BECAUSE IF YOU WANT TO PERSECUTE ALL WHITE PEOPLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE 1% WHILE BLACKS ALSO OWNED SLAVES THAT DETERS THE ENTIRE FUCKING FACT THAT WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD SOLELY FEEL GUILTY!
You keep dancing around the real fucking subject and that's always been that people shouldn't fell obligated or responsible FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTIONS!
You keep wanting us to feel guilty because some policemen or some assholes said nigger. My entire fucking point with the Irish was that they had it just as fucking bad but they don't bitch or demand compensation and neither does anyone else on the fucking planet.

Your argument was stupid and worthless. It had NOTHING to do with the actual argument at hand. Stop creating a straw-man cause that clearly demonstrates you NEVER had the facts to support your claim so you kept making up different bull shit as you went.
Fucking sad

ummm... I didn't try to block you, maybe your computer is just fucking garbage. Yes, the right existed on paper, but it wasn't realized until the 1960s, read a fucking book. 1.4% of whites owned slaves, but an extremely large number of white americans supported it. I'm not creating a straw man argument, YOU refuse to acknowledge that anti-black racism still exists in the country, a racism that has extensive links to the past.

No Luther wasn't the King of all black people but his stance as a major leader in the civil rights movement demonstrates his influence in the black community! There's a reason why he was the face of the black ciivl rights movement you fucking twat
I gave you the fucking link that showed when they could vote! It's the 15th Amendment you fucking idiot! Have you ever even taken a fucking history class? Fuck you cannot honestly be this fucking stupid.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/ourdocs/15thamendment.html
Irish racism does exist. Racism against whites does exist AS I HAVE BEEN SAYING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN! RACISM AGAINST ONE GROUP IS NOT JUSTIFIED YOU FUCKING IDIOT! I SAID EVERYONE IS RACIST THIS ISN'T THAT HARD!
Yes there's huge amounts. Did you ignore the information on why white people are becoming neo-nazis?
Whites make up 78% of the country so OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE THE FUCKING MAJORITY! It's basic statistics. Holy shit are you really that fucking stupid?!?
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

I never said white people are victims I'm saying EVERYONE is/was a victim so holding people responsible for the actions of a few is NOT justified!

Read this and STFU!!
americancivilwar com /authors/black_slaveowners.htm?=

THE 15TH AMENDMENT ONLY GAVE BLACK PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON PAPER!!! LAWS IN THE SOUTH THROUGHOUT THE JIM CROW ERA INTO THE 1960'S MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR BLACKS TO VOTE!!!! YOU READ A FUCKING HISTORY BOOK!!!! EVER HEARD OF THE GRANDFATHER CLAUSE, LITERACY TESTS, POLL TAXES!!!!! IF YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT A BLACK MAN COULD VOTE IN 1867 THEN YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED!!!

Anti-black racism effects modern America today FAR more than anti-Irish racism. Yes, I read what you wrote about Neo-Nazis, maybe they just need to get the fuck over it and move on and love their fellow man, just like you are saying everyone else should, huh? You are STILL not acknowledging my point. I agree with your statement that everyone's ancestors were victims at some point . I agree that the Irish got fucked over. What you completely ignore is that anti-black racism, despite token programs like affirmative action, is still an extremely powerful force in America today, unlike anti-Irish racism. Wow, a few black slave owners existed, I guess that means slavery wasn't a racist institution, just like the Holocaust is ok because a few Jews worked with Hitler.

we were talking about racism but yeah, drag the holocaust in. IF the jews werent upset anymore, its probably because they moved on like any person would. Why would you bring all that back up, just because you feel like you owe them justice? did the jews say that they wanted anything from you or us? On a different note, justice? there is no way that only a select number of people like jews or blacks deserve justice because everyone goes through rough patches but you dont ask for justice, you move on like a normal person does. You think black people linger over every racist comment they hear?
[small][small]

if being a slave meant you were going to get sickle cell, arent there other races who wouldve gotten it that deserve special attention too then?

no, but the fact that Sickle-Cell Anemia still affects the black community in great numbers (a disease that came directly from the conditions of slavery) demonstrates that slavery still effects people to this day, not to mention the economic conditions slavery caused.

yes, because the damages and hatred caused by the Holocaust will die when all the Jews die. I didn't say anything about there not being Jews anymore, I said what if they didn't CARE. No on the Romans, because the Roman Empire and the institutions that perpetuated the slavery that your family endured are no longer around. America, and its wealth, are a direct result of the slave trade, and therefore it IS still effecting people.

So you're still bitching about it? You do realize if we hadn't of enslaved africans, you probably would not be here lol. Those "millions" of blacks would have stayed in the deserts of Africa. WHERE the economy sucks, theres a ton of rape, incest, barely any modern technology throughout more than half the continent and disease. Just to name a few. I'm sorry you're pissed off but your heritage got SOOOO much back from us and you have so many rights yet you still bitch. Caucasians are stuck on seeing only stereotypes because thats all most of you put out. So instead of bitching and saying "its the white man's fault we're like this" Get off your ass and do something about it instead of bitching and fitting the stereotypes you were given. I'm not racist but you can't just stick to a stereotype and expect us to not notice it. I'm tired of seeing you guys parade around everywhere acting like none of this is your fault, sure the slavery may not have been but even so it brought you to a better place where you have freedom. But whatever you're probably going to call me racist and bitch and moan. While you're at it go ahead and call me a nazi cause I'm German, then say I always give up because I'm also French. Seriously. Get over yourself. We're all human and its the 21st century you fight for what you want dont complain and blame the past.

ok, as I have stated a million times, I AM WHITE. the reason Africa is as shitty as it is now is because of slavery and Colonialism. Look up the Mali Empire, Mansa Musa and Timbuktu. In medieval times, Sub-Saharan Africa was the RICHEST, MOST WELL-ORGANIZED region on the planet. you say "that's all most of you put out" in terms of stereotypes. Really? How man black people do you encounter on a daily basis that are thugs, murderers and rappers? Or could it be that that is just how the media portrays them and you are a sucker for not considering otherwise. And no, most Germans are not Nazis and the French actually have many military victories under their belt (see the 100 years war). and SERIOUSLY? you want to argue that slavery brought black people to a "better place'? For blacks, they couldn't even VOTE until the 1960's. Yes, being under forced labor and being beaten raped and murder is much better than having your freedom in your homeland.

Really? How man black people do you encounter on a daily basis that are thugs, murderers and rappers?
Ooh! I can actually answer this one!
Literally all but three of the black kids in my school were like that.

oh at your school, yes your school is a great sample for the overall population. All black people must all be assholes just because of their skin color. Enjoy your racism the rest of your life, I can't wait until your prejudice fucks you over.

Quite to the contrary, I loved most of those guys.
They acted all 'gangster' but they were all fucking hilarious.

um no, these are the figures from blacks killed either for trying to escape or who died in slave ships, so, uh, no get YOUR facts straight.

"...of these 10 million estimated dead blacks, possibly 6 million were killed by other blacks in African tribal wars and raiding parties aimed at securing slaves for transport to America"
Facts. Got them.

but according to what estimate? congratulations on using Wikipedia, whose article on the trans-Atlantic slave trade uses outdated sources with poor estimations and incomplete sources. Most historians today acknowledge that the number is between 15-20 Million.

Okay I'll do you one better. I didn't use Wiki but whatever. My sister in law works for the national archives, she's the one who finds out family history out and helps others do so. I'll ask her to pull everything up for you. Her having a masters in archival studies should surely help.

and you think they expertly recorded the family histories of slaves?! LOL. nice dropping your sisters credentials, you wouldn't need to do so if your argument could stand on its own merits. I am working on my PhD at Columbia in American History right now, so we can both play this game.

And thats fine and dandy sir but surely through reading everything you've wrote you should not only know but hopefully see, half the shit you're saying is retarded. LOL I'm sorry but you're just over all ignorant.

congratulations and just calling me retarded and not actually backing it up. Im "over all ignorant", but you have failed to prove a single point.

I didnt call you retarded I called the words you're typing and thinking are retarded. There is no point in arguing with you because YOU fail to see the points others are making or you flat out ignore them. I never said I would search family history I just said thats what she does and she knows how to find her shit so I'll ask her to find the correct number of slaves that came to AMERICA not overall.