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chhwalker    

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Date Signed Up:1/01/2012
Last Login:8/27/2014
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Comment Ranking:#31690
Highest Comment Rank:#17669
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Level 0 Content: Untouched account → Level 1 Content: New Here
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Level 91 Comments: Srs Business → Level 92 Comments: Srs Business
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Total Comments Made:60
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#138 - Deus Vult! 08/06/2014 on Classic Reginald D Hunter 0
#376 - Gracias Sr. Skelta 08/05/2014 on Calcium +1
#300 - Yeah one of my dogs is a 17 year old yellow lab and although s… 05/20/2014 on 100 years of breed improvement 0
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#197 - In certain situations such as Stalingrad or Leningrad, yes, th… 04/08/2014 on A Real American Hero +1
#194 - Capturing Moscow would still have been a crippling blow, regar…  [+] (2 new replies) 04/08/2014 on A Real American Hero 0
#196 - gilfhunter (04/08/2014) [-]
When you look at Stalingrad, you realize it took alot to demoralize Soviet troops, I dont think it would have made a difference, except a few million more lives would have been thrown into the fire
#197 - chhwalker (04/08/2014) [-]
In certain situations such as Stalingrad or Leningrad, yes, the Russians be extraordinarily resilient and refused to surrender. However, in 1941 alone, the Germans captured more than 3 million Russian soldiers as POWs, so clearly they were capable of surrender.

Ultimately however, you're probably right. The German's did not have the capability to push much farther than Moscow, due to their supply lines and numerical inferiority, even if Operation Taifun had succeeded, and all Russian soldiers in the west had surrendered. So unless Stalin decided to sign a peace treaty, which would be incredibly unlikely, then it would have turned into a bloody war of attrition, that the Russians probably would have won in the end, albeit not quite as quickly as they did in real life.
#131 - Picture 04/08/2014 on Dem titles +1
#189 - If I remember correctly though, Stalin was planning his own in…  [+] (4 new replies) 04/08/2014 on A Real American Hero 0
#190 - gilfhunter (04/08/2014) [-]
They could have taken Moscow all they want. Russia is 11,000 miles from west to east, and whenever a major industrial center was about to fall, the Soviets moved the entire poplulation east. Cities like Almaty, Toshkent, Ashkabat, and Bishkek grew from small frontier towns to major industrial centers during this time (Almaty had about 30,000 people at the onset of the invasion, by the end of the war had 1.1 million people) They may have taken moscow, but there was no way they could have kept up the steam on their offensive. They had supplies comming from Murmansk, Iran, and their own factories beyon the Urals, and Germany had no way to get to those factories. Moscow may have fallen, but Stalin would have thrown another million men away to retake it. And Mother Russia had enough sons and daughters (women oftern fought along side men in the Great Patriotic War).
#194 - chhwalker (04/08/2014) [-]
Capturing Moscow would still have been a crippling blow, regardless of the fact that much of its industry and Stalin's government had been moved out of it. Almost all the major rail lines, such as the Trans-Siberian, and many telegraphs lines, passed through Moscow, and had it fallen, Eastern Russia would essentially have been cut off from Western Russia. Not to mention the blow to moral that losing Moscow would have upon Russia. Many of the minority ethnic groups in Russia may have started to question Stalin's authority, and Russian soldiers such as those besieged in Leningrad might have surrendered.

This is all speculation of course, since obviously Moscow was never taken, and alternate history is very hard to predict, but all I'm saying is that if Moscow had fallen, Germany may have had a chance at winning the war.
#196 - gilfhunter (04/08/2014) [-]
When you look at Stalingrad, you realize it took alot to demoralize Soviet troops, I dont think it would have made a difference, except a few million more lives would have been thrown into the fire
#197 - chhwalker (04/08/2014) [-]
In certain situations such as Stalingrad or Leningrad, yes, the Russians be extraordinarily resilient and refused to surrender. However, in 1941 alone, the Germans captured more than 3 million Russian soldiers as POWs, so clearly they were capable of surrender.

Ultimately however, you're probably right. The German's did not have the capability to push much farther than Moscow, due to their supply lines and numerical inferiority, even if Operation Taifun had succeeded, and all Russian soldiers in the west had surrendered. So unless Stalin decided to sign a peace treaty, which would be incredibly unlikely, then it would have turned into a bloody war of attrition, that the Russians probably would have won in the end, albeit not quite as quickly as they did in real life.
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