I acknowledge the possibility that God is real, and that he guided the universe from the big bang, but I don't see any reason to believe in it. We don't NEED God to explain it, so what reason exists to believe that he's real?

"To state that "I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles...", I assumed that you would not have taken one view on Creation"

Basically, the way I see it is, we don't NEED God to explain anything, so why believe in him if there is no real evidence of his existence? Like I said, I acknowledge that he could be real, because there is literally no way of proving it either way, but there is no more reason to believe that he is real than to believe that anything you're not currently experiencing exists. You can't TRULY prove either, so why take a firm stance?

I think this conversation would be easier if you mentioned exactly what you DON'T believe as far as traditional Christianity goes. Like, you mentioned you believe in the Big Bang. Do you also believe in evolution? Noah's Arc? Adam and Eve? ect. ect.

"believe that anything you're not currently experiencing doesn't exist"

How can you be so sure your God is different when so many have thought the same about their own Gods and been clearly wrong about them? How can YOU be so arrogant?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define."

Again, forgive my bluntness here, but you're basically saying that because your imaginary friend is a nicer friend that every one else's imaginary friend, he must be real.

Can't you see the fallacy of your logic? You have no real evidence beyond some stories written thousands of years ago. Many of which have been proven false. You have literally NO true idea whether they even happened or not. How can you so firmly believe in them?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define." Back to this.

If I recall, I've been told that anyone who doesn't believe in God will be denied access to Heaven, regardless how morally they might have lived their life. How is that just? Caring? Loving? You get damned to Hell for thinking for yourself and not blindly conforming to some belief. God damns people to Hell for DARING to not believe in him? I literally can not think of anything more arrogant than that.

"There is also the String Theory, the Big Bang... All of which *could* be explanations of Creation. I also believe scientists will eventually discover the truth, and we'll all be the better because of it. What I don't understand is why you think this is some way proves there is no God?" I don't think that disproves God, I just think it makes the idea of God obsolete. Imagine it this way: if the Big Bang had been scientifically proven and absolutely fully understood, and then someone came up with the idea "Naw man, the universe was mad by a God!", he would be laughed out of the building. In short, it removes the reason that you would believe in God. Continued.

Also, don't waste time trying to convert me. Others have tried and failed. I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles that anything short of having a direct, perfectly sober, conversation with a divine being will change my point of view.

My point of view being that it is far more likely that there is not a God than there is one. Moreover, if he does exist, then he hasn't done anything more profound than subtly manipulating chance since the beginning of the universe. There is literally NOTHING that has happened in the history of the universe that science can't explain without invoking a deity.

As an aside, I'm far more interested in WHY you believe than what kind of warm and fuzzy feelings you experience as a result of you faith.

Excuse my bluntness here, but there was so much bullshit in there that, as a scientist, I had a hard time getting through it. You literally provided 0 proof or logical backup to your statements. Also, you addressed literally 0 of the points I made.

However, I will give this the "old college try" and continue this conversation.

"I started to do some research on these questions. I've bought books on Apologetics (books on the defense of Christianity through logic and reason) and looked for answers to these hard questions. " Care to describe this research, or the answers you found?

"However, I have been convinced through this relationship and philosophical and historical arguments" Again, care to elaborate? The rest of that paragraph was irrelevant bullshit, though, I'm afraid.

"Your second question assumes that Biblical history has been disproved which I believe is quite untrue. It is true that atheist historians constantly challenge Old Testament history. However, archaeological findings, while at times support their findings initially, have been, quite across the board, reversed in favor of Old Testament history."

I'm not interested so much in the social or archeological history in the Bible as I am in the parts where it indicates the Earth is only about 6k years old, or that all life on the planet came into being largely simultaneously. Which we know, is irrefutably false.

You misinterpreted my first question, though.

I meant exactly what I said. The Gods I mentioned were once believed in just as fervently as your's ever was, but are now obsolete because everything they were used to explain were found to have nothing to do with the whims of a God, but were just natural phenomena and understandable science at work.

Why do you believe that your God is any different, any more real, than them? Why do you believe that we will not, with absolute certainty, discover the scientific reasoning behind everything that you God is supposed to have done, or doing now?

Now, why do I believe that there are some things science will never be able to define? like Biblical miracles? Or God himself? Because I believe that Jesus is exactly who he said he was. And because I believe that, I am also agreeing to "reserve judgement" and trust that the truth will eventually appear.

Now, I would be happy to continue this conversation with you in a well-mannered way if you avoid the arrogant and condescending comments.

funnyjunkyyeahyeah,

I am deeply sorry that you feel that way. However, I will continue to "give this the old college try" in the most mannered way possible.

Well, before I approach your question, which I most certainly will, I must tell you that you have been misinformed. To state that "I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles...", I assumed that you would not have taken one view on Creation, (which the one you stated is "Young Earth creationism" [url deleted] and that's it. Well, I'd be happy to expound on a couple more you've seem to have left out that also fit within Christian theology. I, personally, believe in an "Old Earth".(http://www.answersincreation.org/old.htm) I believe that science has shown that the Earth is far older than fundamentalists believe. (Fundamentalists believe in a completely literal translation of the Bible.) There is also the String Theory, the Big Bang... All of which *could* be explanations of Creation. I also believe scientists will eventually discover the truth, and we'll all be the better because of it. What I don't understand is why you think this is some way proves there is no God? To Christians, science is the exploration of His Creation, which to all humans is beautiful and majestic, each facet in its own way.

I believe that you are placing the gods of old and the God of Christianity in the same boat. They are very, very different from each other. The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define. It's like approaching infinity. The gods of old were nothing of the sort. They were very "human", and since you mentioned them I know you know what I mean when I say that. The God of Christian theology, the Abrahamic God, existed before them, in those times, and still does today.

I acknowledge the possibility that God is real, and that he guided the universe from the big bang, but I don't see any reason to believe in it. We don't NEED God to explain it, so what reason exists to believe that he's real?

"To state that "I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles...", I assumed that you would not have taken one view on Creation"

Basically, the way I see it is, we don't NEED God to explain anything, so why believe in him if there is no real evidence of his existence? Like I said, I acknowledge that he could be real, because there is literally no way of proving it either way, but there is no more reason to believe that he is real than to believe that anything you're not currently experiencing exists. You can't TRULY prove either, so why take a firm stance?

I think this conversation would be easier if you mentioned exactly what you DON'T believe as far as traditional Christianity goes. Like, you mentioned you believe in the Big Bang. Do you also believe in evolution? Noah's Arc? Adam and Eve? ect. ect.

"believe that anything you're not currently experiencing doesn't exist"

How can you be so sure your God is different when so many have thought the same about their own Gods and been clearly wrong about them? How can YOU be so arrogant?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define."

Again, forgive my bluntness here, but you're basically saying that because your imaginary friend is a nicer friend that every one else's imaginary friend, he must be real.

Can't you see the fallacy of your logic? You have no real evidence beyond some stories written thousands of years ago. Many of which have been proven false. You have literally NO true idea whether they even happened or not. How can you so firmly believe in them?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define." Back to this.

If I recall, I've been told that anyone who doesn't believe in God will be denied access to Heaven, regardless how morally they might have lived their life. How is that just? Caring? Loving? You get damned to Hell for thinking for yourself and not blindly conforming to some belief. God damns people to Hell for DARING to not believe in him? I literally can not think of anything more arrogant than that.

"There is also the String Theory, the Big Bang... All of which *could* be explanations of Creation. I also believe scientists will eventually discover the truth, and we'll all be the better because of it. What I don't understand is why you think this is some way proves there is no God?" I don't think that disproves God, I just think it makes the idea of God obsolete. Imagine it this way: if the Big Bang had been scientifically proven and absolutely fully understood, and then someone came up with the idea "Naw man, the universe was mad by a God!", he would be laughed out of the building. In short, it removes the reason that you would believe in God. Continued.

Many natural phenomena that we once did not understand were explained by different Gods; Helios (Sun), Zeus (Lightning), Poseidon(Tides), Odin(Death), Thor, Loki(Eclipses), ect. ect.

All of these phenomena were eventually explained to not be the work of Gods, but very understandable occurrences explainable by science. These Gods are now obsolete and no one believes in them anymore.

One of the last few remaining questions is how exactly did the universe begin (even though we currently have a very good scientific understanding of it) and the Catholic God explains that... for the moment.

My first question is why do you believe that your God is any more real than the other Gods that have become obsolete and forgotten? How long before your God follows the same course?

My second question is why do you believe in something that has already been largely disproved? For example, the Bible's take on history.

Also, Wood found collapsed fortification walls, evidence that is occurred in the springtime, evidence of fire damage, and a short siege since the grain stores were not consumed. The Jews were not permitted to use anything in the city once it collapsed. All of this evidence points towards the Biblical account.

Your second question assumes that Biblical history has been disproved which I believe is quite untrue. It is true that atheist historians constantly challenge Old Testament history. However, archaeological findings, while at times support their findings initially, have been, quite across the board, reversed in favor of Old Testament history. There are tons of example of this. Please refer to Biblical events like the ruins of Jericho, the Gilgamesh Epic, the tomb of David etc. Specifically, on the ruins of Jericho (if you don't know the story,(http://www.childrenstory.info/biblestoryforchild/chdbbljericho.html), archaeological findings could not match the ruins dates with Joshua's conquest of Canaan as recorded in Scripture (Jos 6) originally. However, in 1990, Bryant Wood, a researcher, later disproved the dates of the original findings and correctly specified to be the date 1440 B.C. There are countless examples of these events. So, Biblical history has been able to be certified by outside findings. It is actually very hard to disprove, and it is generally accepted that the Bible is a "historically reliable" document.

Sorry for the delay! I've been busy with school and all that recently. I'll be happy to address your questions.

Now, looking at your first one, I can basically sum up that up to "Why am I a Christian, as opposed to other religions?"

I asked questions similar to yours, like "If God is good, why does he allow genocide?" "Why is my religion right, and others wrong? Who am I to say that?" Well, instead of just assuming that these questions are unanswerable, I started to do some research on these questions. I've bought books on Apologetics (books on the defense of Christianity through logic and reason) and looked for answers to these hard questions.

To put it in a concise sentence, I am a Christian because of my personal relationship with my Creator that exisits within me, and the historical and philosophical arguments for Christianity which confirm my belief.

Do not mistake that statement by thinking that I blindly follow some religion just because I was told to or raised to. I am *not* Catholic by the way. However, I have been convinced through this relationship and philosophical and historical arguments that a man named Jesus was exactly who he said he was. That he lived, died, and rose from the dead. I know you have heard that phrase a million times, and the act defies logic and reason, but so does my personal relationship with my Creator. I hope that I can convey to you what this relationship is and what it looks like, and hopefully, I can dispel and discrepancies about how Christianity has been portrayed as to you, through an American culture's eyes. Trust me, Christianity has *nothing* to do with psychotic, hateful people like members of the Westboro Babtist Church or the people who scream on sidewalks "Fags go to hell". Those people are terrible, hateful people that in no way represent Christianity. They have as much to do with Christianity as Hitler does with bunnies.

Also, don't waste time trying to convert me. Others have tried and failed. I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles that anything short of having a direct, perfectly sober, conversation with a divine being will change my point of view.

My point of view being that it is far more likely that there is not a God than there is one. Moreover, if he does exist, then he hasn't done anything more profound than subtly manipulating chance since the beginning of the universe. There is literally NOTHING that has happened in the history of the universe that science can't explain without invoking a deity.

As an aside, I'm far more interested in WHY you believe than what kind of warm and fuzzy feelings you experience as a result of you faith.

Excuse my bluntness here, but there was so much bullshit in there that, as a scientist, I had a hard time getting through it. You literally provided 0 proof or logical backup to your statements. Also, you addressed literally 0 of the points I made.

However, I will give this the "old college try" and continue this conversation.

"I started to do some research on these questions. I've bought books on Apologetics (books on the defense of Christianity through logic and reason) and looked for answers to these hard questions. " Care to describe this research, or the answers you found?

"However, I have been convinced through this relationship and philosophical and historical arguments" Again, care to elaborate? The rest of that paragraph was irrelevant bullshit, though, I'm afraid.

"Your second question assumes that Biblical history has been disproved which I believe is quite untrue. It is true that atheist historians constantly challenge Old Testament history. However, archaeological findings, while at times support their findings initially, have been, quite across the board, reversed in favor of Old Testament history."

I'm not interested so much in the social or archeological history in the Bible as I am in the parts where it indicates the Earth is only about 6k years old, or that all life on the planet came into being largely simultaneously. Which we know, is irrefutably false.

You misinterpreted my first question, though.

I meant exactly what I said. The Gods I mentioned were once believed in just as fervently as your's ever was, but are now obsolete because everything they were used to explain were found to have nothing to do with the whims of a God, but were just natural phenomena and understandable science at work.

Why do you believe that your God is any different, any more real, than them? Why do you believe that we will not, with absolute certainty, discover the scientific reasoning behind everything that you God is supposed to have done, or doing now?

Now, why do I believe that there are some things science will never be able to define? like Biblical miracles? Or God himself? Because I believe that Jesus is exactly who he said he was. And because I believe that, I am also agreeing to "reserve judgement" and trust that the truth will eventually appear.

Now, I would be happy to continue this conversation with you in a well-mannered way if you avoid the arrogant and condescending comments.

funnyjunkyyeahyeah,

I am deeply sorry that you feel that way. However, I will continue to "give this the old college try" in the most mannered way possible.

Well, before I approach your question, which I most certainly will, I must tell you that you have been misinformed. To state that "I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles...", I assumed that you would not have taken one view on Creation, (which the one you stated is "Young Earth creationism" [url deleted] and that's it. Well, I'd be happy to expound on a couple more you've seem to have left out that also fit within Christian theology. I, personally, believe in an "Old Earth".(http://www.answersincreation.org/old.htm) I believe that science has shown that the Earth is far older than fundamentalists believe. (Fundamentalists believe in a completely literal translation of the Bible.) There is also the String Theory, the Big Bang... All of which *could* be explanations of Creation. I also believe scientists will eventually discover the truth, and we'll all be the better because of it. What I don't understand is why you think this is some way proves there is no God? To Christians, science is the exploration of His Creation, which to all humans is beautiful and majestic, each facet in its own way.

I believe that you are placing the gods of old and the God of Christianity in the same boat. They are very, very different from each other. The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define. It's like approaching infinity. The gods of old were nothing of the sort. They were very "human", and since you mentioned them I know you know what I mean when I say that. The God of Christian theology, the Abrahamic God, existed before them, in those times, and still does today.

I acknowledge the possibility that God is real, and that he guided the universe from the big bang, but I don't see any reason to believe in it. We don't NEED God to explain it, so what reason exists to believe that he's real?

"To state that "I've spent so many hours thinking about this from all angles...", I assumed that you would not have taken one view on Creation"

Basically, the way I see it is, we don't NEED God to explain anything, so why believe in him if there is no real evidence of his existence? Like I said, I acknowledge that he could be real, because there is literally no way of proving it either way, but there is no more reason to believe that he is real than to believe that anything you're not currently experiencing exists. You can't TRULY prove either, so why take a firm stance?

I think this conversation would be easier if you mentioned exactly what you DON'T believe as far as traditional Christianity goes. Like, you mentioned you believe in the Big Bang. Do you also believe in evolution? Noah's Arc? Adam and Eve? ect. ect.

"believe that anything you're not currently experiencing doesn't exist"

How can you be so sure your God is different when so many have thought the same about their own Gods and been clearly wrong about them? How can YOU be so arrogant?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define."

Again, forgive my bluntness here, but you're basically saying that because your imaginary friend is a nicer friend that every one else's imaginary friend, he must be real.

Can't you see the fallacy of your logic? You have no real evidence beyond some stories written thousands of years ago. Many of which have been proven false. You have literally NO true idea whether they even happened or not. How can you so firmly believe in them?

"The God of Christianity is perfect, perfectly loving, perfectly caring, perfectly just, in a way that humans will never be able to define." Back to this.

If I recall, I've been told that anyone who doesn't believe in God will be denied access to Heaven, regardless how morally they might have lived their life. How is that just? Caring? Loving? You get damned to Hell for thinking for yourself and not blindly conforming to some belief. God damns people to Hell for DARING to not believe in him? I literally can not think of anything more arrogant than that.

"There is also the String Theory, the Big Bang... All of which *could* be explanations of Creation. I also believe scientists will eventually discover the truth, and we'll all be the better because of it. What I don't understand is why you think this is some way proves there is no God?" I don't think that disproves God, I just think it makes the idea of God obsolete. Imagine it this way: if the Big Bang had been scientifically proven and absolutely fully understood, and then someone came up with the idea "Naw man, the universe was mad by a God!", he would be laughed out of the building. In short, it removes the reason that you would believe in God. Continued.

disproved?not rlly,if the bible was disproved then there would be no Christianity,it hasent rlly been disproved,jus doubted.

That's like saying that if evolution was proven true, there would be no more people who claimed it to be false.

Oh wait
It was proven true
People still don't accept it.

Your argument is invalid.

I was promised intelligent conversation. Don't intrude with stupidity.

Also, I said the Bible's take on HISTORY was LARGELY disproved. Not that the ENTIRE Bible had been disproved.