No, they aren't living beings in the Star Wars universe. Droids are built by human hands, they can be disassembled by human hands. It's not like they put in the memory core and then suddenly forget how they just did it. To say otherwise would be to retcon a ton of stuff and frankly still wouldn't make any damn sense. It's ok. The movie has flaws, just accept it. I love star wars too, but lets not be fanboyish about this new movie.

>>#88 his explanation makes sense, but even then, there are millions, probably billions of lives at stake. I think a droid's respect is less important.

>>#48
You didn't address >>#37
Why couldn't they access R2D2's database? Unlock my ass, you could rip the droid apart and pull out his fucking hard drive, locks or no.

No, they aren't living beings in the Star Wars universe. Droids are built by human hands, they can be disassembled by human hands. It's not like they put in the memory core and then suddenly forget how they just did it. To say otherwise would be to retcon a ton of stuff and frankly still wouldn't make any damn sense. It's ok. The movie has flaws, just accept it. I love star wars too, but lets not be fanboyish about this new movie.

>>#88 his explanation makes sense, but even then, there are millions, probably billions of lives at stake. I think a droid's respect is less important.

Then we have Ray use force pull to out pull Kylo and I know what you're thinking, he is injured so probably focusing on that. That is a pretty lame exuce still since she just learn that she has force powers and he is still way more trained then her

lets not forget Kylo Force pushes her into a tree, into the air and she lands on the ground but this is a movie, unless there is blood there wasn't an injury.

but apparently she is like superman on earth the longer she knows about it the better she gets, so there really isn't a reason for her to go to luke, just wait and she'll be the best ever.

Anyways she steals it, and they fight. I've seen people saying that fight was good. Yeah, two kids thrusting and dodging from attacks with little control and after a lot of the same clumsy attacks over and over they struggle, he must have read Anakins journal where he asked luke to come with him because its pretty much the same.

Then she closes her eyes and becomes better. That is the equivalent of super man just grunting harder to get over his kryptonite weakness.

She disarms him, and hurts him and the world breaks apart, she runs and they escape, some how were supposed to believe kylo got onto a ship being out in the edge where the falcon was before the world exploded but yeah, he got away.

They land Chewie holding Fin sets him down and HIs long time friend, his best friend's former wife, who he saved her life multiple times WALKS PAST HIM, Doesn't comfort him at all, not even a fucking node and goes and hugs Ray [spoiler] atm it is highly suggest that she is lukes daughter and gives her the map, which Rd-d2 magically got right at this moment and sends her to him, which chewie still the co-pilot then her and luke stare at each other for an akward 30secs and the movie ends.

So Kylo Ren is the possibly worse, most pathetic bad guy we've seen since the storm trooper bonked his head that isn't threatening at all, especially with his whiny comments and baby face.

OR Ray is this mary sue bad ass and there isn't any feeling of her failing because everything she does she is a bad ass at, no faults what so ever, no faults.

Either way, poor character development all around on those two, but I'm drunk-ish and those are my thoughts.

Keep in mind, I enjoyed the movie, I truly did but it wasn't perfect by any means. [/spoiler]

But lets back up to Fin, a stormtrooper who runs a the first sight of inncoent bloodshed. It was amazing scene it humanized the troopers as well as making them feel like a threat, a nazi threat as we see more images of that later but still it was pretty good.

Captain Do nothing berates him for a bit and he goes on his way. Finds Poe and tells the other trooper on guard duty that Kylo Ren wants him, they have intercoms, its space future better technology and this storm trooper just goes with this instead of questioning it, any badass ness they got from the first scene and lost it with this blunder

Most of Fin's lines are comic relief, not serious and barely needed for the movie to continue but its a trilogy so it should slide until we see how his character folds out, but for this movie if he was just there for slap gags for the most part.

Fast forward to landing on the cantina scene, Han gives Ray a blaster, and the feeling is that she hasn't used one or doesn't like them, hence the staff. She takes it anyways, later running away from force shit she just starts one-shotting trained storm troopers.

Then we get discount deathstar, and the reason I say discount is because it gets two uses, sure it will hit multiple targets but it gets to chances at it. Then that planet will just drift out of orbit and make that discount Hoth even colder than it is probably killing anyone who isn't indoors or wearing special equipment, what a great plan.

back to this cool fight scene, we find Poe Still alive and being a badass in the sky, honestly he and Han carried that movie hard.

But Fin, fin was given the lightsaber and goes with using that instead of finding a blaster which we all assume he at least is good at since well storm trooper. But if he didn't we wouldn't have that cool trooper with the weapon that can block a light saber and we get this cool melee fight, but haven't been shown that Fin can fight with a sword and is shown when his ass is handed to him.

They take off to the resistance head quarters, Before we continue lets talk about that. Why are they called the resistance when we have been given the information that a republic as been made, so shouldn't that just be their army? It's just now two armies fighting each other.

They give basically the same plan in the same fashion as a new hope and go out to do it. Han does cool Han shit, and some how Kylo ren feels him but later doesn't feel him standing directly behind him in the shadows.

Lets go into Kylo Ren real quick, he is whiny, give him more screen time I'd wager more whiny than Anakin in the prequels. He looks like he is twelve and throws not one, but TWO temper tantrums the movie. Leading to a funny gag after the second one but he is whiny like his grandfather.

back to them sneaking in, phasma does her one part in the movie betraying everyone and some how Ray is navigating this First order base as if she lived there, all the while keeper her prence unknown from Kylo becuase she is a jedi already.

Yep lets go back a bit. How did she escape? She just learned about the force/Luke being real like a day ago story time, 30min movie time and she some how uses probably one of the harder force powers. And I know the reason, because Kylo penetrated her mind and she read his as well? and just looked up Force>what can do>mind trick

and Downloaded the program, glad this is the matrix.

Han dies, they run and some how Kylo gets ahead of them in the forest some how. W/e its a movie, then Fin goes hero and uses the lightsaber, not hinted as a force user, not hinted that he has any melee combat training or if does bad at it, and he keeps up with a person who has the force and has been trained in using the blade. Not only does he keep up he gets a hit in. A HIT IN. Fine he was toying with him at the start but he should have died[spoiler] honestly. 2/one more [/spoiler] sorry about the first one everyone : ////

it has a lot of inaccuracies through out the entire movie, that not really make it a shit movie but it wasn't this super great be all end all movie /starwars movie.

I'll start with the nitpicks first.

First the practical effects besides BB-8 were meh at best, two best examples of them being worse are the giant alien pulling its haul away from the camp Ray is going towards after first meeting her

Second the animal that discount Jawa was riding when Ray saves BB-8 It looks like it moves exactly a robot trying to mimic a fake biological creature. It was clunky and should have been CGI but since everyone has a hard on to hate the prequels and anything CGI JJ Abrams did his beast to avoid it to avoid the constant bitching that are starwars fans.

The stormtrooper and more importantly the snowtrooper looked too round and looked like plastic, yes I know it is, but it shouldn't look like it. Its armor, back to the snow trooper, those helmets are the worst thing since the weird ass cone heads in the OT.

Then their weapons, so they just decided to glue parts of old stormtrooper armor on to them? But they're trying to sell toys so eh I guess I give it a pass.

Any time BB-8 did that anyone will talk about him being an awesome new addition was when he was CGI. Nuff said on that.

Its been 39years since RToTJ and they forgot everything? We still know what happened during WW1 and this super advanced society some how forgot everything about that war, even though the up in coming new republic probably has most of the those people still alive and breathing, but some how Jedi's and force are a big myth again.

Luke was mentioned in the crawl twice, didn't show up until the end, said nothing and Mark Hamill was listed higher than a lot of the other actors, Whut?

Captain Phasma, the character for some reason was leaked, talked about, brought up controversy because female badass storm trooper does nothing cool and gives up her troops and base, /clap what a bad ass

But lets go into more eh bullshit, Ray was running towards a different ship with Fin and says an off screen ship is junk, the other one is blown up and we see the falcon, queue squee of nerds and gasps of how could she. Which honestly was a pretty good gag UNTIL when they meet Han solo She knows who the fuck he is and knew he did the kessel run BUT some how she doesn't know the fucking ship he used?

and before you say well can be the same type not the same, which is bullshit since she knew the order in which it was stolen, which if she knew that and didn't ask why this ship was being stolen so much is just being ignorant of the sake of an argument but even besides that, even if she thought it was a different one she knew what those ships are capable off.

But before all of that she some how knows how to fly it like a damn expert, this movie has not set up that she is a crack pilot like they did for Luke and loosely did for child Anakin, all we know of this character by the time she flies the falcon like an ace pilot is that she was abandoned on discount tattooine and she finds seemly important parts from old ships and sells them for food and she is handy with a staff.

That's it. And after they survive her and Fin are freaking out that they survived that they freak out like children patting themselves on the back for how cool they were.

Then again we learn that not only is she an amazing pilot but also an engineering/mechanic and can fix the ship to keep them alive. They get captured by Han and Chewbacca and we already went through that. Then when being boarded she is placed underneath and some how knows the workings and switches to this ship as well, but FROM WHAT WE KNOW SHE WAS ABANDON AND A SCAVENGER nothing else but yeah lets keep making this super man marry sue character? 1 out of probably a lot.

I liked it to Dusksamurai, I'm just over critical on the things I like, I can do the very same thing for prequels and the OT. They all have problems and are not the best movies by far.

They pick things up quicker yes, still not the marry sue shit she was doing. Wedge was still a far better pilot than Luke after he found out he was force sensitive.

Anakin was the Jesus of the universe, he even has the very same storyline. A tad different no? Which led to problems later in the movies if we all remember.

Having an all powerful character is never good for any storlines, it makes really difficult to give a shit when they're in a perdicament. People will just know she won't fail and that isn't good.

ANd its not that I would mind all of this if it happened over time. This movie was week tops in story time and a day or two after finding out she might be a space wizard.

I disagree with your statement about Han. She was clearly a fan, heard a lot of about it and kept in her memories. She knew about it. You don't need to know everything about Evel Knievel to know that he used a motor cycle to do his stunts.

But yeah, we have no idea what the character knows and what she doesn't. What we do know is that anything she picks up she is instantly good at it. That Falcon complaint was really more of a nitpick than a true complaint of the movie but one that still irked me.

Some of the EU is starting to make it back, the shows Rebels and Show Clone wars are also cannon as well just for a bit of stable ground for you.

The force sensitives are a little op but they still need to be trained.

However

I'm going at this purely in a movie standpoint, she was too good. There isn't a need for her to see Luke, she self taught jedi mind trick, force pull and learned how to shield her presence around other force users.

Force push wouldn't be to hard, neither would sprint or jump.

What we learned about Ray at the start of the movie was that she was abandoned on discount tattooine and has been a scavenger her entire life. That is all she knows and she picked up some wicked moves with a staff.

No mention of flying a ship, even if the force helps you'd still have to know the controls
No mention of a owning a blaster, no mention of fixing space ships let alone junkers that have flown in years. But all of that she did with out hesitation, no problems, she pulled moves that would make Han/Lando impressed by during that chase scene off of Jakku mind you while being followed by, that we would have to assume as trained pilots if not seasoned.

I don't mind her character being strong, I don't mind a female hero which I'm sure some might call me out on reading how harsh I am on her, I liked her character and could get over the flying/fixing/blaster bullshit if they added ONE scene where she did all three of those, it wouldn't have been to hard. But they didn't and I'm told to believe that its the force? That is really campy even for starwars.

But I could have overlooked all that crap if she didn't just become a bad ass in something she didn't even believe was real a few days prior, her mind just went full cult mode with it and jumped right in jedi mind tricking all over the place! (tis a joke I know it only happened once)

Yes, I've heard that she is Luke's daughter, however that was not confirmed at all in the movie, this movie, the force awakens. All we know was she was an orphan and a scavenger by trade. That is it.

He was 99% self taught? He was with yoda training and being given tests to push his ability. He was being taught how to use the force, what the force is even, and that there is a difference between dark and light. He was taught he didn't just suddenly mind trick someone with in 10min of learning/feeling that he had the force.

The mind trick was performed in the prequels by established Jedi, Luke did it at the end of the OT in return of the Jedi, even if she is Luke's daughter, which this movie didn't let us in on because reasons, she still is a pretty big marry sue character.

Again even if she is Luke's daughter a trained force user as it was confirmed to us about Kylo Ren he should have beat her, or at least not have lost like that the world should have split during their struggle, but instead she closed her eyes and believe she was better.

Nothing was hard for her. It doesn't matter that she has the force that is a boring character. Luke as you said is a pretty big deal when it comes to the force and yet he still had train?

So that is the new lore JJ Abrams and Disney are pushing? Not hard work, or understanding of the this pretty big thing in the universe, not even coming of age tale for Ray, just monkey see, monkey do, Feeling the force gets you your powers now?

That is lame and boring.How that isn't getting more complaints I don't know.

So let me put it this way before people come back at me with the same thing over and
over.

Even if we find out she is the new chosen one, Luke's daughter and had her mind wiped after being trained and her early memories of Jakku are fake she is still a boring character because she is good at everything. Even Anakin one the most powerful force users in the starwars universe failed at things.

There wont be a feeling suspense if the character might fail because every time she has picked up something she didn't know about she excelled highly at.


And just as a reminder, I'm talking about this movie, I'm not adding in UE or anything else because it didn't happen in this movie.

This movie we saw an orphan scavenger fly the falcon as if she was Han and almost as good as the best resistance pilot, she knows the problems with the ships and fixes it with out hesitation, she is a perfect shot after picking up the blaster for the first time on screen, and the very first time she fights with a light saber she beats an establish force user who has had training in both the force and saber duels and wins.

That is the definition of a Mary sue character.

I said it in a different post on this page, if they had ONE scene showing that and a single line of dialogue explaining an oddity about the character, anything at all it would have been that much more believable than an orphan who is skilled at everything she runs into.

Yeah, she did get excited, I said that, also she knew the theft order of the falcon. The only reason why it has been stolen that man times was because it could do that amazing stuff, and since she knew Han, and the order of people in which it was stolen she more than likely would've known that was the Falcon.

Being force sensitive and not knowing why you're great still requires the character to at least have done the thing a couple times to be come better than average at it, even if she had done those thigs before she was FAR better than average.

Taking apart/finding important parts does not make you a genius let alone qualified to work on space ships. Plenty of people can take apart their computer and do it for years, does not mean they know how to put other computers back together, or the problems they might experience.
One scene, they did flash backs with her, all it took was one scene with her flying and shooting a blaster and would've satisfied, people like me with my complaints.

The fat alien had her during the flash back, the way he treated her he put her right to work scavenging. Basically a slave, why give that person a blaster, let alone a ship? He had labor for food.

I don't mind self teaching, but show it, AT LEAST make a comment towards it. She had never flown or at least when she did it didn't go well with her "I can do this" comment to herself then she flies it through wreckage? Not even the force can help someone who has never flown a ship that requires sorta needs a co-pilot to fly at full strength alone through a broken ship that wasn't designed to be flown through while being chased and shot at by another pilot.

But fine, w/e let's say she is that great and it wasn't a problem with a movie, that makes it a BIGGER problem for the movie.

Her character, is going to be great at every single thing she does, leaving no suspsnce when she might be in danger, nothing. So why care about the character? She's great, boring, but great. Lets get back to the character avoiding what might be death.

I don't understand your last comment? The force didn't make Jarjar, sure he wasn't the best character but damn people really need to find other things to bitch about in the prequels. Anakin's acting was better than Kylo Ren, he never took out his saber and destroyed computers because something didn't go his way. But they are related so I mean I guess it makes sense.

George Lucus is terrible at love stories. The Han/Leia was bad as well but since its the OT no one points it out. At least Anakin Padme have scenes where there are hints of the relationship growing.

Nothing against the obiwan thing, that is vaild and I bring it up when I knock those movies down like this one.

To summarize, her character has no flaws, and no, no flaws isn't a flaw. Which is why I didn't enjoy her character. No matter the explanation she will still be way to powerful to be a character to be enjoyed unless they make her go down the darkside, then it gets a little more interesting, but only a little.

I'd also like to resubmit that I do like this movie, enjoyed it and have seen it a couple of times but its just like any other starwars, nothing really too great.