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bachbach Avatar Level 190 Comments: Anon Annihilator
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Gender: male
Date Signed Up:5/01/2011
Last Login:10/23/2012
Location:America
Funnyjunk Career Stats
Content Thumbs: 3 total,  0 ,  3
Comment Thumbs: 909 total,  1354 ,  445
Content Level Progress: 1.69% (1/59)
Level 0 Content: Untouched account → Level 1 Content: New Here
Comment Level Progress: 80% (8/10)
Level 190 Comments: Anon Annihilator → Level 191 Comments: Anon Annihilator
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Content Views:183
Total Comments Made:467
FJ Points:1051

latest user's comments

#632 - So if a child will grow up to have a harder life than others, …  [+] (7 new replies) 06/07/2012 on She's doing it right +1
#657 - filwit (06/07/2012) [-]
You're missing the point I'm trying to make. Is killing a thief you catch in your house murder? No. Why? Because of that person's negative intentions towards you and society.

I'm not comparing abortion to dealing with thieves, please don't think I'm making that connection. I'm trying to say that killing is only bad when the person being killed a) doesn't want to be killed, and b) doesn't deserve to be killed.

Abortion doesn't meet A's requirements because a unborn fetus doesn't have any intentions of measurable magnitude (this is the point we should truly be debating). Therefor the only demonstrable moral conduct lies in the intentions of the parents (those responsible for the child experience after birth), and thus the pro/cons of killing and unwanted fetus is not in the same ball-park as killing an existing conscious entity with existing intentions and desires to live.

At the end of the day, there is little measurable wrong in ending a life before it truly "begins", because morality here is measured in intentions and desires. The question is: do we really want people being raised by those who won't or can't provide a nurturing environment?

This is why this debate always eventually boils down to a religious argument, because only those who assert an innate value to human life in a dogmatic way see immorality with ending it at any state of consciousness. Which spawns from (IMO) a lack of proper analysis of the underlying reasons for human value in the first place. If you understand human value in a simple way, you are doomed to understand morality in a similar light.
User avatar #734 - bachbach (06/07/2012) [-]
I don't find the argument at all logical. I've been taught that human life is a gift and it should be treated as such. I'll ask you, would you have like to have been aborted? I'm assuming not, and if we asked the unborn if they would like to live or die, they would answer, live. Though you're argument seems to be that we can kill them because they have no way of saying no or having been developed enough for memory or to have the ability to really know their own death, but by that logic if someone is an atheist and believes in no concept of heaven and life after death we could just kill them, because as soon as they are dead all their memories will cease and everything will go blank, and thus they will have no way of knowing of their own death. I'm sure all of us are happy we weren't aborted at the beginning of our life and if we asked the developing children in the womb they would all want to live as well. But again, since they can't say they want to live yet, we can just decide for them.
#751 - filwit (06/07/2012) [-]
This is what I meant when I said this debate inevitably boils down to a religious one. I don't see human life holding value "just cause" or because "I've been taught" as you put it. I cherish human life because it is the highest form (we know of) of consciousness with very distinct intentions and desires to live.

The point you're continuing to miss about my point of view, and I don't see a reasonable argument against it in your response, is that consciousness at a fetus stage simply isn't conscious enough (prior to 3 moths of development) for it to have any intentions of desires of life, because such concepts are beyond it's scope of existing function.

You can't "ask" a fetus if it want's to live, not because it's currently lacks the vocal-cords to convey it's spirit's intentions (we can't know that such a thing exist to begin with), but because it's neurological construction hasn't assembled anything close to being able to process such a concept as life or death. Humans don't even become "self aware" until around age 3-4. Before that we have little understanding of social structure and the finite state of our own biological life.

Killing a human, regardless of their philosophic views on spirituality, is morally wrong because of that persons existing intentions and desires to live, and for no other reason than that.

It's impossible for us, as mere humans in a vast cosmos, to know with any form of certainty that taking a life is wrong in an absolute context. Or even to know if an absolute context exist to begin with. Indeed all conscious pondering is subject to our physically limited conscious abilities of interpretation. Because we lack an absolute understanding of the rules of existence, we're forced to make judgments to the best of our abilities and that means understanding and constructing logical, secular reasons for moral conduct. This means that an explanation with reasoned description will always outweigh one of dogmatic assertion.
User avatar #757 - bachbach (06/08/2012) [-]
So since a fetus isn't self aware we can kill it? You also say children aren't self aware until around three. So can we kill them too?
#768 - filwit (06/09/2012) [-]
Awareness isn't a switch. It's not off one moment then on the next. Killing a fetus isn't wrong because it's so low on the awareness scale that it's almost akin to deleting your operating system from your computer. Only it has the potential to become much more than your operating system, so the moral debate becomes about the parent's intentions and desires for the future child.

For the most part, it's illegal to kill a fetus after 3 months of development because that's around the point where the fetus begins to experience base emotion and dreams. I agree with this law, three months is plenty of time to come to grips with parenthood, and after that it's inhumane to end the fetus's life. A toddler is much, much more aware than that, and most toddlers have many nurturing parents and adults that care deeply for their well being and future.

In a more perfect world we would have 100% accurate birth control and this wouldn't be an discussion at all. Unfortunately that isn't reality, at least not yet.
User avatar #769 - bachbach (06/09/2012) [-]
I honestly think if we made the child then its our duties as human beings to give them a chance for life.
#675 - filwit (06/07/2012) [-]
I should clarify that even killing a thief is, or course, morally subject to the thief's intention. Meaning, if the thief has a gun and you feel threatened for your life or the lives of others, then the consequences of not attempting, by any means, to disarm the thief is actually morally worse than to respond with complete Pacifism.

If you do not feel threatened, however, taking the life of another for purely material reasons is morally (IMO, much) worse than seeking alternative resolutions.
#627 - Not even remotely logical. 06/07/2012 on She's doing it right -2
#866 - not fucking canada.  [+] (1 new reply) 06/07/2012 on Why USA wins wars 0
User avatar #948 - Crusader (06/07/2012) [-]
Sorry, it was simply people that lived in the British Colonies of Upper and Lower Canada.
Who called themselves Canadians, who the British Empire referred to as Canadians, to stop the USA from taking over Upper and Lower Canada.
Yes, we were under the rule of Britain, but there were no British soldiers except for the Generals, the actual soldiers were Miltia-men that had lived most, if not all their lives in Canada.
Sorry, for the confusion.
#864 - Yes, a war between the United States and the British Empire.  [+] (5 new replies) 06/07/2012 on Why USA wins wars +1
#869 - anonymous (06/07/2012) [-]
and people want to annex Canada
User avatar #870 - bachbach (06/07/2012) [-]
Get a profile then speak to me.
#874 - anonymous (06/07/2012) [-]
I'm a different anon, but I feel the need to let you know that you are the cancer destroying the internet. I would not waste my time making an account for this piece of shit website, especially since there's no added benefit. The fact that you are unwilling to converse with an anon for the sole reason that he's an anon speaks volumes about who you are as a person.
#909 - CoolStoryBrosky (06/07/2012) [-]
That's when I clicked "Hide all," it hid all anon posts.
Peculiar, must just be FJ glitching, right?
#879 - catasstrophy (06/07/2012) [-]
wow man... thats like so true
#861 - You're a retard.  [+] (9 new replies) 06/07/2012 on Why USA wins wars +3
#863 - anonymous (06/07/2012) [-]
look up war of 1812
User avatar #866 - bachbach (06/07/2012) [-]
not fucking canada.
User avatar #948 - Crusader (06/07/2012) [-]
Sorry, it was simply people that lived in the British Colonies of Upper and Lower Canada.
Who called themselves Canadians, who the British Empire referred to as Canadians, to stop the USA from taking over Upper and Lower Canada.
Yes, we were under the rule of Britain, but there were no British soldiers except for the Generals, the actual soldiers were Miltia-men that had lived most, if not all their lives in Canada.
Sorry, for the confusion.
User avatar #864 - bachbach (06/07/2012) [-]
Yes, a war between the United States and the British Empire.
#869 - anonymous (06/07/2012) [-]
and people want to annex Canada
User avatar #870 - bachbach (06/07/2012) [-]
Get a profile then speak to me.
#874 - anonymous (06/07/2012) [-]
I'm a different anon, but I feel the need to let you know that you are the cancer destroying the internet. I would not waste my time making an account for this piece of shit website, especially since there's no added benefit. The fact that you are unwilling to converse with an anon for the sole reason that he's an anon speaks volumes about who you are as a person.
#909 - CoolStoryBrosky (06/07/2012) [-]
That's when I clicked "Hide all," it hid all anon posts.
Peculiar, must just be FJ glitching, right?
#879 - catasstrophy (06/07/2012) [-]
wow man... thats like so true
#505 - This slightly scary. What if there's a rollercoaster designed … 06/07/2012 on Rollercoaster... +5
#74 - Came back and thumbed down cuz FUCK OP 06/05/2012 on ??? +2
#141 - God Good Guy Greg is high as balls. 06/03/2012 on Such a good guy. 0
#365 - You when you saw the green thumbs in a sea of red thumbs.. 06/03/2012 on Egg +1
#110 - I read on funnyjunk once something about not wanting your gran… 06/01/2012 on Bisexuals +1
#1120 - Well, no complaints here. 05/29/2012 on Your Future Wife +3
#1264 - Everyone tried this and was amazed. 05/26/2012 on What if I told you +1
#209 - **bachbach rolled a random image posted in comment #123 at … 05/26/2012 on safety first! 0
#34 - Oh how i love jimmy carr 05/24/2012 on Just Jimmy Carr 0
#229 - Never seen this one before. (The douchebag said in a sarcastic tone) 05/23/2012 on best line ever 0
#117 - Well i say keep it that way. Something to tell people if they … 05/21/2012 on I'm a terrible father +1
#367 - SAME AND IM WONDERING WHATS WRONG WITH ME  [+] (1 new reply) 05/21/2012 on Alpha as fuck 0
User avatar #393 - TheCodFather (05/21/2012) [-]
Theres no pictures so your morals dont kick in as much
#114 - Well then thats ur choice. If you cant get someone to kiss you… 05/21/2012 on I'm a terrible father 0
#109 - Well not necessarily, the first few times are really cool actu… 05/21/2012 on I'm a terrible father 0
#106 - Not to be rude but maybe lower standards? Id rather kiss a few… 05/21/2012 on I'm a terrible father 0
#105 - Comment deleted 05/21/2012 on I'm a terrible father 0
#42 - I just saw that episode on Netflix today. 05/21/2012 on Soldier Boy... 0
#173 - Honor in a french accent sounds like oh no 05/19/2012 on My honor +1
#704 - Not to be a downer but...repost. 05/19/2012 on Military Women +1
#18 - in reality theres an asshole cat on the floor. 05/18/2012 on And Now... +8

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