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#171 - in literal terms, yes. I was referring to the concept of J… 03/24/2016 on japan on terrorist attacks. 0
#25 - Jihad simply put is putting one's life on the line and being p…  [+] (2 new replies) 03/23/2016 on japan on terrorist attacks. +1
User avatar
#51 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
Jihad means "to struggle" You can have Jihad with your health, JIhad in your daily life, or Jihad in war. Jihad has been made into a scary word, but it means "to struggle".
#171 - abdullahmag (03/24/2016) [-]
in literal terms, yes.
I was referring to the concept of Jihad in Islam, which usually refers to what i said, but also includes what you mentioned.
#13 - because ISIS is all about spreading Islam,.....seriously?  [+] (35 new replies) 03/23/2016 on japan on terrorist attacks. +1
#41 - anon (03/23/2016) [-]
Islam is a religion and a political system.
User avatar
#14 - rototornjik (03/23/2016) [-]
what is jihad about then? fun and games, toast and cakes?
#93 - anon (03/23/2016) [-]
It's the word you've been taught to fear
#94 - rototornjik (03/23/2016) [-]
hate, not fear
#25 - abdullahmag (03/23/2016) [-]
Jihad simply put is putting one's life on the line and being prepared to die for the purpose of defending one's family, country, or religion within the boundaries of what the Qur'an and Mohammad (PBUH) have set.

This of course led to the misguided and disillusioned and the right out manipulative liars to attribute their inhumane and unethical actions to Islam under the excuse that they're doing what is instructed by god, and as you can imagine this gave "Jihad" and Islam as a whole a negative connotation that many of the uninformed and those who fell victim to terrorist acts have come to associate with the religion and middle easterners (who compose the majority of the muslim population globally).
User avatar
#51 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
Jihad means "to struggle" You can have Jihad with your health, JIhad in your daily life, or Jihad in war. Jihad has been made into a scary word, but it means "to struggle".
#171 - abdullahmag (03/24/2016) [-]
in literal terms, yes.
I was referring to the concept of Jihad in Islam, which usually refers to what i said, but also includes what you mentioned.
#20 - anon (03/23/2016) [-]
It's about power, and a hatred of the west. Their Muslim, but they ignore many of the rules of Islam.
#49 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
As a Muslim you are right about 1 thing, they ignore many of the rules, which makes them tread outside of islam. THe only thing they do with islam is use it for their own beliefs. Put things in different context and you have a strong source for propaganda. Like you said they ignore many things, almost all things about islam.

Islam forbids the killing of innocents and suicide. People doing these bombings aren't part of our islam nor are they muslim. They are merely "people" using the name for their own benifit.

I know i am going to get thumbed down for this.
#92 - anon (03/23/2016) [-]
And Jesus was a Jew, hypocrisy at the top is nothing new
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#89 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
I suggest you read my conversation with sovngarde a bit further down. Because most of the surah used in the terrorism link are out of context. And that is exactly the way guys like isis and osama used the surash to spread propaganda.

And the battle of the trench as you can read is between the Meccans (which is quraish) and the jewish tribe banu quraiza. Quraish tortured the muslims which made them flee to medinah where banu quraiza was stationed. after the muslims grew too much banu quraiza broke their agreement with the muslims and attacked. Muslims faught quarish in the battle of badr first, they won, after that they fought again against quraish in the battle of uhud, muslims lost. during this small battles where had agains banu quraiza and the muslims defeated them and chased them outside of madinah, so quraish and banu quraiza joined forced to attack agains the muslims again in the battle of the trench.
#91 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
Yeah, but you said one of the rules of war is to not kill those who surrender. So how do you explain the beheading of the prisoners in the battle of the trench?
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#97 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
keep in mind those guys where the ones that surrendered and attacked again, surrendered again and attacked a 3rd time. In a situation like that it is clear what would happen if you would release them again.

So even this is not a proof to just slaughter every prisoner you have. this was a specific situation where slaughtering them was better than releasing them and fighting the released prisoners the next day.
User avatar
#95 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
In the battle of badr they released the prisoners, which a surah came down that said to kill them instead because of the torture they put the muslims trough and to show the others that even after torture the muslims are not weak. but this surah came down after they released them. When they recaptured them in the battle of the trench they beheaded them.
#99 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
Yeah but that same argument can be made about Americans, Europeans, etc. Don't you see the problem there?
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#102 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
This is a whole different situation dude. For once the prisoners are the enemy soldiers, which were people they know (since mohammad also came from mecca) so they where being attacked by people known to them. Even then the people slaughtered where the people ordered to be slaughtered in badr,

In todays war, once you release a prisoner you will not see him back because the army is so big. Secondly what quraish did was worse then what is happening now agains the muslims. At first even after they got tortured and ridiculed and killed because they where muslims they first freed them. The order to kill was send down for those people, non of this is happening now. You cannot punish a footsoldier that is fighting just of an order he got the same way you would punish Quraish who would hunt down every muslim to torture them and kill them. This is hitler lvl stuff were talking about.

But ofcourse in war and this goes for any country it is strategically better to kill of high valuable targets, but killing off every prisoner you have is wrong and is not ordered nor by allah or the prophet mohammad
#106 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
But that leaves room for exceptions where "do not kill those who surrender" doesn't apply when its inconvenient. That can easily be interpreted in the way ISIS is choosing to interpret it, and its technically not incorrect.
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#107 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
Again it is situation based, Quraish and Amerika and whatnot are impossible to compare, What QUraish did was 10 times worse which is why they got that punishment. And to show them that even after years of training muslims are not weak nor afraid to kill their previous friends etc. This situation can not be translated to this situation.

What CAN happen and what IS happening is using proofs like these and many others, without telling the context brainwash people and spread propaganda to people to your own benifit, and that is what is happening. Isis is not doing it for islam, they are using islam to their own benefit.
#110 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
fine, lets change that chart then
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#113 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
You don't understand what i'm trying to tell you.

The killing of the battle of the trench was a specific situation for them alone. That cannot be used to justify the killing of every prisoner that isis does now. Unless you feel its necessary does not fit here.
#119 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
I know exactly what you are saying, and I agree that ISIS uses Islam as a tool in its own distorted way. I certainly don't believe their interpretation is mainstream.

That being said, Muhammad disobeyed these commands you posted when he felt it was necessary. He killed those who surrendered in revenge, he enforced Islam , he wasn't "good to the prisoners" when he sold women into slavery, etc.
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#122 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
He killed them not when he thought it was necessary, but when the order came in a surah. In what way did he enforce islam, and in what war did he sell woman into slavery? If he did, you can trace back when and during what period, (meccan period, medinan period, during the battle of badr, or uhud, or the trench etc)

The muslims never sold people in slavery, they would buy them to set them free for the high reward you would receive from allah, The slaves of muslims where more like maids, they would set up a contract and base needs would need to be provided for the slaves, (food a place to stay etc) if you could not take care of the slave or act strict or aggresive agains them you would have to set the slave free because you could not take care of him/her.

When was islam enforced and when where slaves sold, could you please elaborate.
#124 - kanyesfishsticks (03/23/2016) [-]
Battle of the trench, oh a surah how convenient
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#126 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
Like i previously explained there was more to it than just a surah and just the battle of the trench, there was 9 years of torture and killing of muslims, after that quraish declared to boycott the muslims and waged war for years after that. All the things that happenned led to the surah being unveiled during the battle of badr for those people, that for them killing is better than setting free. Because when they where set free they continued with attacking and killing muslims.

What would you suggest that should have been done?
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#56 - sovngarde (03/23/2016) [-]
>Don't enforce Islam

Boy Muhammad fucked up there.
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#58 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
how so?
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#59 - sovngarde (03/23/2016) [-]
The only reason Islam spread was due to violence and war.
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#64 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
I suggest you read into the history. The muslims got attacked and once they had a base of operations they retaliated. And even then they never enforced people islam. countries had 3 options before the muslims attacked. 1st was them accepting islam, then no war would occur. 2nd was protection. The country that was being targeted would pay the islamic country/state a fee and that country would fall under the protection of the muslims (they didnt need to accept islam, they could continue as their own county but as a allience of the islamic country) and if the islamic country/state can't defend or help the country then they are not obliged to pay anymore. And the 3rd option was war, and that was not weird since the persians romans where going to war to the muslims because they where increasing in size in an alarming rate after the muslims defeated the arabs and took back mecca.
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#67 - sovngarde (03/23/2016) [-]
I understand the history. But do you deny that Muslims during conquests would forcibly convert those whom they captured and the nations they took over?
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#69 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
I don't know about what the "muslims" do now with their prisoners, but I have studied the history of the prophet muhammad and the 4 khaliphs after him. The islam never really increased outisde of mecca and madina that much, just during the second khaliph the golden age of the muslims occured where they increased in size.

Coming to your comment, altought they DID take prisoners and slaves. Prisoners where the enemy soldiers and the slaves where the people, the slaves where shown the lifestyle of the muslims before setting them free. (showing them their way of life) after seeing this a lot of slaves rather continued staying slaves since slaves then where made with a contract. It was more of a made we have today. The prisoners could be bought free by the allies of the prisoners. And if they would accept islam they would be set free at once. THeir big enemys like quraish who tortured the muslims just for being muslims got killed. But there is no instance where the muslims forced the prisoners to be muslims. Because becoming a muslims you must testify with 100% dedication. You cant do that while forcing it. I can name every major war the moslims fought. If you have a particular war where it seems that the muslims forced islam then please let me know so i can look further into it.

Isis and those idiots you see today have nothing to do with islam nor are they acting like a muslims should during war.
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#74 - sovngarde (03/23/2016) [-]

I have not read or studied the Quran, however I'm curious as to if these texts are accurate or not. Also, during Muhammad's last years, did he not enforce a violent approach to Islam? Since you are Muslim, I would like your perspective.

I see you're very educated on this subject, so I'd like to apologize for my previous rashness.
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#88 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
Also Jizya that you see in the suras and hadeeth on that website is the protection money i previously mentioned. In war the muslims would send out a messenger with a letter to the leader of the enemy greeting them, asking if they would accept islam. if not if they would accept jizya (protection money) if not the war would continue. Muslims didn't attack left and right, first they fought agains Quraish who tortured them before. After the muslims moved to madinah the jews fought them because the muslims where increasing and getting their own law. (mohammad and the leader of the jew tribes had an agreement that the muslims would fall under mohammads law and everyone else under the jews law) and because the shariah was much more free people would go to mohammads side and that made the jews attack the muslims. The muslims retaliated and took madinah, and a few years later meccah from the hands of quraish. Quraish went to other jew tribes and the jews went to the persians. So the persians attacked fearing the muslims would increase to much in size. During this the muslims where still growing and the romans jumped in. If you look at the numbers of the armies, the muslims where always fewer in numbers, there was 1 war where they where more in numbers and they lost that one against quraish. So it would be weird for a new formed country with fewer soldiers to attack innocent bigger countries all around them
User avatar
#83 - imaan (03/23/2016) [-]
These suras of the quran mostly are about their wars against quraish. for example:
"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."

This surah was sent down as a permission to fight quraish in mecca since mecca was a holy ground where fighting was forbidden. The website says"key note religion be only for allah"

This is wrong. The situation with quraish was that they knew that the islam was the true religion but still tortured the muslims because of greed and their high and noble position. So the muslims got permission from Allah to fight quraish in mecca, untill none of quraish was left (chasing them out) or they accepted islam. They real key note is: " But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers" which happened. Quraish ran away and the muslims stops fighting them and released all the prisoners since Quraish forfeit.

Second one is: `Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly orby compulsion?`

This is a surah that talks about murted. So people that accepted islam and deviated from it for wealth, political position or because the muslims lost a war. A lot of people would become muslim when the muslim won a war, and deviate from islam when they would lose a war. So this surah is about them because deviating from islam is a major crime. This has nothing to do with non believers.

I can say that ALL of the suras written there are out of context. A lot of them are about the wars agains quraish, and we read them to understand the situation the muslims where in. for example:

"Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do"

Fighting the fitnah. Fighting is not done only with the sword, but in multiple ways.
For example there was a poet in the time of the prophet muhammad, he would write and spread out poems talking against and belittling muhammad. Now what he does is Fitnah, but that does not mean that the muslims fought him with the sword and killed him. They simply silenced him trough bribery and pulled them over to the side of the muslims.

Fighting and things like Jihad are things that can be done multiple ways.
You can fight with the tongue, with your deeds (good manners etc) fighting with money (bribing) and with the sword etc. Jihad for example means "to struggle" you can do that with you health, wealth and familly, this does not mean that you kill and fight you familly. If you have jihad in health, that means that you are ill and are fighting/ struggling to beat the sickness.

sorry for my long text but i want to clear the misconception a lot of people have about islam. There are a lot of people that are doing things wrong naming themselves muslims. But please do not base the islam on those people. Truly islam does not enforce violence or anything. The only thing it teaches is, worship allah alone, spread out good and forbid evil.
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#22 - rototornjik (03/23/2016) [-]
yeah, it was more of a rhetorical question.

and the east is no stranger to their violence either, believe me. russia gets rocked with a bombing every few months, but we here never hear about it in the news.
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