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Vandeekree

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Date Signed Up:2/21/2010
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latest user's comments

#342 - Yes, but that is not the punishment, the punishment is hell. W…  [+] (13 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -2
User avatar #369 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is the punishment hell? It's too long after the crime and offers no chance of rehabilitation. It's a far superior system to immediately remove free will for a set amount of time.
You're acting as though preventing someone from rape is going to make them sit down and never do anything again because they can no longer choose to do anything.
User avatar #388 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because rehabilitating violates free will. If you were given a shock every time you ate bread you would never do it again, if you were sent to prison for a year for farting you would try desperately not to do it again. hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life.
And yes, preventing them from doing it will keep them from doing it. God knows exactly how "hard" a punishment should be to stop the rapist from ever raping again, but he doesn't want him to stop, he wants him to stop himself because that's what's right.
User avatar #401 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life."
Then you're god is spiteful and an asshole. I wouldn't worship him if he did reveal himself to me.
"Because rehabilitating violates free will"
No, it doesn't. When the rehabilitation is over they can still choose to do whatever, they just don't.
User avatar #427 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And as far as God being spiteful, no. e is a loving God who wants you to do what is right. he gives every opportunity to do so, teaches that you should love and only love and creates a place of eternal contentedness that you have to simply try to get into in order to be let in.
User avatar #422 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
When someone is rehabilitated they can still choose, but they won't because they are rehabilitated, if they do do it again then they are clearly not rehabilitated. So being taught a lesson that you will never go back on is losing your ability to do that sin again, and if you do that sin again, then what was the point of the rehabilitation at all?
User avatar #432 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So your answer is an infinite punishment for a finite crime? That's by definition infinitely more evil than beating a child for eating a cookie.
User avatar #444 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Well there must be an infinite punishment to offset and infinite reward. Would a thousand years in hell be better? or a billion? Anything short of eternity melts away into nothing when afterwords you get eternal heaven.
It's not unjust, the punishment is earned fully. You choose to reject God.
User avatar #453 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Whether or not I choose to reject god is an argument in and of itself, but also a moot point. There is no crime that warrants an infinite punishment, and there's no good reason that not believing should be viewed as a crime.
User avatar #462 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God created you and loves you and only wants you to freely choose to accept him. He gives you all purpose. To reject not only his offer of heaven but his love too fully warrants such a punishment.
User avatar #467 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
I don't think you understand how you offer someone something.
You walk up to them and you try to give it to them.
You don't sit in your room holding a rose and when the girl doesn't call you you go burn her house down.
User avatar #474 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
He does give to us all the opportunity we need. But he wants us to earn the gift. And to walk up to us with it would cause all to accept without proving they will do what is right first. It's a test you see.
User avatar #478 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
A test for what?
User avatar #483 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
To see if we will earn heaven or reject God and earn hell.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I use this quote because it shows my point that God wants us to feel we are in control and not pressured so we may choose unbiasedly(as in, the bias one would have were there to be a giant eye staring from heaven at all moments, you wouldn't so much as sneeze)
He wants to see our true colors and what we will do and once we have done it, he will deal out what is deserved.
Why does he do this? I have no idea at all. He is a being of infinity and i can't even conjecture to how his mind works.(if you can call it a mind)
#338 - Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is …  [+] (2 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup 0
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#333 - Because if i put you alone in a room with a cookie and tell yo…  [+] (10 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup 0
User avatar #354 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But the system is flawed. What about less significant crimes? By the bible, all sin is equal in the eyes of god. Even ignoring the inherent sin of existing, which I have never understood, lying to your mother about whether or not her cake was delicious will land you a spot in hell. Suppose someone had never even heard of the god concept, by your belief system they'd receive eternal damnation no matter how hard they tried to be a good person.
User avatar #376 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's two different topics, let me try to do one at a time.
No single sin will get you into hell except rejection of Jesus. You see all people sin, all men and women fall short, and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified, to symbolically show that we are saved through him and his love. Sin no longer matters because it can all be forgiven if you ask. But the catch is that to sincerely ask for forgiveness you must believe is God and his son Jesus(obviously) and if you believe in them then you will do your best to be as good and God like as possible despite the fact that you will fail and that all sin will be forgiven and not count against you. So sin doesn't matter, but if you believe in God, you will try to be sin free. If that doesn't make sense tell me and i will try to rephrase.
Secondly, all humans are given the opportunity to know God(i think, to my understanding that is right although i clearly can't prove it) but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did. All people come from the same lineage so at some point, if there were children not being taught about God, that is where the blame would lie, with the parents who did not pass on the knowledge. Perhaps those who don't know are judgged by the old testament rules or maybe God reveals himself to them personally to make sure. But also, we are supposed to spread the knowledge, so we too are partly to blame if there are a people we know of that do not know and we do not go help them. But it's all quit complicated and i don't claim to know exactly how it works. But if God is real, then he would have created a way an/or handled it fairly.
User avatar #394 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"...but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did"
Blatantly false. There are people all over the world who just aren't exposed to that kind of thing. It also doesn't help that there are three religions based around the same god, or that each of these religions has thousands of denominations, or that hallucinations are more reason to see a psychiatrist than a priest.
" You see all people sin, all men and women fall short"
Because it's an inherently unfair system. Original sin, the sin all man inherits for Adam and Eves eating of the apple, is a crime we are still being punished for. In fact it's why we're supposedly inherently evil beings and is why we "fall short". How many people do you know that you could honestly say deserve eternal pain and suffering of a caliber sure to drive them insane in less than a day?
User avatar #414 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I'm not explaining it well if you think it is unfair. It is more than fair, all you have to do to get into heaven is believe in Jesus, that's it, there is not amount of bad you can do and no amount of good you must do. Anyone can get in at any time in their life, all they have to do is accept Jesus and all sin is forgotten utterly and you will never be punished for it.
And my first statement is not false. it is fact that the first humans knew of this and their descendants were either taught or not taught. So if there was born a child who did not get exposed, you can trace back in their linage til you find the point where a certain parent failed to teach their child either because they themselves stopped believing, or because they simply did not realize they never said it.
#734 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
thats not "fair" thats "fear"... i dont see a legit reason for ur faith being as strong as it is besides the fear of going to hell
User avatar #738 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And that's where the term "God fearing" comes from. But you're not afraid of anything unfairly given, you should be afraid of deserving punishment. Afraid you will mess up and do wrong and in that way, do your best to be good. To be honest, just as strong as the fear of punishment is my fear of disappointing God.
User avatar #436 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
What do you think "fair" means? It doesn't matter how easy it is, the punishment is excessive, the reward isn't earned, the rules are unclear and not everyone knows they're playing the game. That's really not fair.
User avatar #451 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone. And if they do not, they will not be punished, but i find it hard to see any circumstance where you would not be exposed to God at some point.
The punishment equals the reward, but i will admit, the reward is not earned, it is given by a loving God even though no one manages to earn it.
User avatar #457 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone"
See, all that says to me is that you're in denial of how the world works. There ARE people who aren't exposed to the god concept. There ARE people who are only exposed to different gods to yours. There ARE people who are told your god is satan and to ignore everything to do with him. These people are not given a chance by your rules.
User avatar #470 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I agree with all expect the part about being given a chance. You see those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished, and those who hide God from others will be punished. It is a choice, and to be honest, you and i are probably in the wrong for knowing of God and not bringing him to those who are on the wrong path. Not to mention, if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right, if they so choose to seek it.
#325 - Because we cannot be punished nor rewarded for an action that …  [+] (15 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -2
User avatar #329 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Loss of the free will to do something after you've already done it is a perfectly reasonable punishment, isn't it why we have prisons?
User avatar #342 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, but that is not the punishment, the punishment is hell. We are left here on earth for a set period of time to be tested. If free will were to be taken away, then the test would no longer be a test, so why would you continue living?
User avatar #369 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is the punishment hell? It's too long after the crime and offers no chance of rehabilitation. It's a far superior system to immediately remove free will for a set amount of time.
You're acting as though preventing someone from rape is going to make them sit down and never do anything again because they can no longer choose to do anything.
User avatar #388 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because rehabilitating violates free will. If you were given a shock every time you ate bread you would never do it again, if you were sent to prison for a year for farting you would try desperately not to do it again. hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life.
And yes, preventing them from doing it will keep them from doing it. God knows exactly how "hard" a punishment should be to stop the rapist from ever raping again, but he doesn't want him to stop, he wants him to stop himself because that's what's right.
User avatar #401 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life."
Then you're god is spiteful and an asshole. I wouldn't worship him if he did reveal himself to me.
"Because rehabilitating violates free will"
No, it doesn't. When the rehabilitation is over they can still choose to do whatever, they just don't.
User avatar #427 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And as far as God being spiteful, no. e is a loving God who wants you to do what is right. he gives every opportunity to do so, teaches that you should love and only love and creates a place of eternal contentedness that you have to simply try to get into in order to be let in.
User avatar #422 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
When someone is rehabilitated they can still choose, but they won't because they are rehabilitated, if they do do it again then they are clearly not rehabilitated. So being taught a lesson that you will never go back on is losing your ability to do that sin again, and if you do that sin again, then what was the point of the rehabilitation at all?
User avatar #432 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So your answer is an infinite punishment for a finite crime? That's by definition infinitely more evil than beating a child for eating a cookie.
User avatar #444 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Well there must be an infinite punishment to offset and infinite reward. Would a thousand years in hell be better? or a billion? Anything short of eternity melts away into nothing when afterwords you get eternal heaven.
It's not unjust, the punishment is earned fully. You choose to reject God.
User avatar #453 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Whether or not I choose to reject god is an argument in and of itself, but also a moot point. There is no crime that warrants an infinite punishment, and there's no good reason that not believing should be viewed as a crime.
User avatar #462 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God created you and loves you and only wants you to freely choose to accept him. He gives you all purpose. To reject not only his offer of heaven but his love too fully warrants such a punishment.
User avatar #467 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
I don't think you understand how you offer someone something.
You walk up to them and you try to give it to them.
You don't sit in your room holding a rose and when the girl doesn't call you you go burn her house down.
User avatar #474 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
He does give to us all the opportunity we need. But he wants us to earn the gift. And to walk up to us with it would cause all to accept without proving they will do what is right first. It's a test you see.
User avatar #478 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
A test for what?
User avatar #483 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
To see if we will earn heaven or reject God and earn hell.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I use this quote because it shows my point that God wants us to feel we are in control and not pressured so we may choose unbiasedly(as in, the bias one would have were there to be a giant eye staring from heaven at all moments, you wouldn't so much as sneeze)
He wants to see our true colors and what we will do and once we have done it, he will deal out what is deserved.
Why does he do this? I have no idea at all. He is a being of infinity and i can't even conjecture to how his mind works.(if you can call it a mind)
#321 - You should do a good thing because God wants you too because h…  [+] (10 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup 0
User avatar #335 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Empathy and enlightened self interest. How do you know its actually god giving you morality?
User avatar #357 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's the next logical step. And so it would seem logical that, if God wanted us to know how to act he would reveal it to us because the only way we could know is if he showed himself. And so that's what he did, he left us the bible, his word, written by humans but inspired and guided by him. Although he does not toss it into our laps, we must do a bit of searching to find out what the truth is(because there i more than one religion and some contradict one another so obviously not all are right). Because surly God did not put it out of anyone's reach or else how could he punish us for not following rules he placed out of our knowledge?
And how do you know those writings are the right one? That can only be determined by studying the writings and comparing them to all other writings. In doing so, the truth is designed to reveal itself(or at least that has been my experience up to now)
User avatar #371 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"the truth is designed to reveal itself"
All three abrahamic religions say that, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to history. That's really not evidence. You have to use something external to the book to demonstrate that the book is correct.
What do you mean by "That's the next logical step"?
User avatar #400 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I meant that when told "God gives us morality" "how do you know?" is the next logical question following it.
And the evidence does not have to be separate from the book it'self. There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency. I'm sure you've seen the claims of contradictions in the bible but i have followed up on ll those i have yet found and as of yet, all melt away when the verse is looked at in context, and looked at as the original translation(the English versions have a few problems that cause confusion)
So there is proof of the bible, but the best proof is the contents of the bible itself when compared to all other religious texts.
User avatar #428 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency."
See, I've heard this a thousand times, but when I look it up the prophecies that I find are self fulfilling and vague, the historical sites, people and events offer no evidence of a supernatural entity (See the counter argument "does spiderman exist because new york does?") and more often than not the same site is discovered in a dozen different places before people stop finding reasons that one of them isn't wrong. Noahs ark has been found on top of a lot of mountains at this point.
As for contradictions in the bible, here's a list made by NonStampCollector
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
User avatar #435 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I've actually seen this video before so yes, i know what you mean, but if you look for yourself you see all of these are just attempts to create contradiction where there is none.
And i agree on the Spiderman/New York argument, but the point of that part is that the events are not made up, they are based on real places so that at least is factual.
#331 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
That is a stupid argument. It's basically saying without god how do you know anything is what it is.

I know what I am doing is good because I personally believe it's good. Not because anyone, that being god or not told me it is.
User avatar #338 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is arbitrary. You literally made it up based on your experiences and others have made up things too. None can be relied on, there has to be a standard, an actual example of what is right and wrong and the only being who could create such a thing must be able to see everything.
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#317 - Yes, but the victim did not lose their free will because God t…  [+] (17 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -2
User avatar #323 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is it bad for god to take free will, especially in the event where free will is lost anyway and this loss causes extreme suffering?
User avatar #325 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because we cannot be punished nor rewarded for an action that we do not choose to(or not to) do.
User avatar #329 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Loss of the free will to do something after you've already done it is a perfectly reasonable punishment, isn't it why we have prisons?
User avatar #342 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, but that is not the punishment, the punishment is hell. We are left here on earth for a set period of time to be tested. If free will were to be taken away, then the test would no longer be a test, so why would you continue living?
User avatar #369 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is the punishment hell? It's too long after the crime and offers no chance of rehabilitation. It's a far superior system to immediately remove free will for a set amount of time.
You're acting as though preventing someone from rape is going to make them sit down and never do anything again because they can no longer choose to do anything.
User avatar #388 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because rehabilitating violates free will. If you were given a shock every time you ate bread you would never do it again, if you were sent to prison for a year for farting you would try desperately not to do it again. hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life.
And yes, preventing them from doing it will keep them from doing it. God knows exactly how "hard" a punishment should be to stop the rapist from ever raping again, but he doesn't want him to stop, he wants him to stop himself because that's what's right.
User avatar #401 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life."
Then you're god is spiteful and an asshole. I wouldn't worship him if he did reveal himself to me.
"Because rehabilitating violates free will"
No, it doesn't. When the rehabilitation is over they can still choose to do whatever, they just don't.
User avatar #427 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And as far as God being spiteful, no. e is a loving God who wants you to do what is right. he gives every opportunity to do so, teaches that you should love and only love and creates a place of eternal contentedness that you have to simply try to get into in order to be let in.
User avatar #422 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
When someone is rehabilitated they can still choose, but they won't because they are rehabilitated, if they do do it again then they are clearly not rehabilitated. So being taught a lesson that you will never go back on is losing your ability to do that sin again, and if you do that sin again, then what was the point of the rehabilitation at all?
User avatar #432 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So your answer is an infinite punishment for a finite crime? That's by definition infinitely more evil than beating a child for eating a cookie.
User avatar #444 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Well there must be an infinite punishment to offset and infinite reward. Would a thousand years in hell be better? or a billion? Anything short of eternity melts away into nothing when afterwords you get eternal heaven.
It's not unjust, the punishment is earned fully. You choose to reject God.
User avatar #453 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Whether or not I choose to reject god is an argument in and of itself, but also a moot point. There is no crime that warrants an infinite punishment, and there's no good reason that not believing should be viewed as a crime.
User avatar #462 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God created you and loves you and only wants you to freely choose to accept him. He gives you all purpose. To reject not only his offer of heaven but his love too fully warrants such a punishment.
User avatar #467 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
I don't think you understand how you offer someone something.
You walk up to them and you try to give it to them.
You don't sit in your room holding a rose and when the girl doesn't call you you go burn her house down.
User avatar #474 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
He does give to us all the opportunity we need. But he wants us to earn the gift. And to walk up to us with it would cause all to accept without proving they will do what is right first. It's a test you see.
User avatar #478 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
A test for what?
User avatar #483 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
To see if we will earn heaven or reject God and earn hell.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I use this quote because it shows my point that God wants us to feel we are in control and not pressured so we may choose unbiasedly(as in, the bias one would have were there to be a giant eye staring from heaven at all moments, you wouldn't so much as sneeze)
He wants to see our true colors and what we will do and once we have done it, he will deal out what is deserved.
Why does he do this? I have no idea at all. He is a being of infinity and i can't even conjecture to how his mind works.(if you can call it a mind)
#307 - Yes, his action is terrible, but the freedom to choose what yo…  [+] (19 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -1
User avatar #314 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
In the event of a rape, there are two people with free will involved. The rapist and the victim. If the rape happens, the victims free will is lost. If the rape is prevented, the rapists free will is lost. Who's free will should be lost?
User avatar #317 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, but the victim did not lose their free will because God took it, it was taken by the rapist, that is partly why it is wrong for him to do that. God will not prevent us from taking another's free will, but he will give us the free will to do so. So to answer your question, no one's free will should be lost.
User avatar #323 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is it bad for god to take free will, especially in the event where free will is lost anyway and this loss causes extreme suffering?
User avatar #325 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because we cannot be punished nor rewarded for an action that we do not choose to(or not to) do.
User avatar #329 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Loss of the free will to do something after you've already done it is a perfectly reasonable punishment, isn't it why we have prisons?
User avatar #342 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, but that is not the punishment, the punishment is hell. We are left here on earth for a set period of time to be tested. If free will were to be taken away, then the test would no longer be a test, so why would you continue living?
User avatar #369 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Why is the punishment hell? It's too long after the crime and offers no chance of rehabilitation. It's a far superior system to immediately remove free will for a set amount of time.
You're acting as though preventing someone from rape is going to make them sit down and never do anything again because they can no longer choose to do anything.
User avatar #388 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because rehabilitating violates free will. If you were given a shock every time you ate bread you would never do it again, if you were sent to prison for a year for farting you would try desperately not to do it again. hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life.
And yes, preventing them from doing it will keep them from doing it. God knows exactly how "hard" a punishment should be to stop the rapist from ever raping again, but he doesn't want him to stop, he wants him to stop himself because that's what's right.
User avatar #401 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"hell is not a rehabilitation, it is the punishment for rejecting God in life."
Then you're god is spiteful and an asshole. I wouldn't worship him if he did reveal himself to me.
"Because rehabilitating violates free will"
No, it doesn't. When the rehabilitation is over they can still choose to do whatever, they just don't.
User avatar #427 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And as far as God being spiteful, no. e is a loving God who wants you to do what is right. he gives every opportunity to do so, teaches that you should love and only love and creates a place of eternal contentedness that you have to simply try to get into in order to be let in.
User avatar #422 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
When someone is rehabilitated they can still choose, but they won't because they are rehabilitated, if they do do it again then they are clearly not rehabilitated. So being taught a lesson that you will never go back on is losing your ability to do that sin again, and if you do that sin again, then what was the point of the rehabilitation at all?
User avatar #432 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So your answer is an infinite punishment for a finite crime? That's by definition infinitely more evil than beating a child for eating a cookie.
User avatar #444 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Well there must be an infinite punishment to offset and infinite reward. Would a thousand years in hell be better? or a billion? Anything short of eternity melts away into nothing when afterwords you get eternal heaven.
It's not unjust, the punishment is earned fully. You choose to reject God.
User avatar #453 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Whether or not I choose to reject god is an argument in and of itself, but also a moot point. There is no crime that warrants an infinite punishment, and there's no good reason that not believing should be viewed as a crime.
User avatar #462 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God created you and loves you and only wants you to freely choose to accept him. He gives you all purpose. To reject not only his offer of heaven but his love too fully warrants such a punishment.
User avatar #467 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
I don't think you understand how you offer someone something.
You walk up to them and you try to give it to them.
You don't sit in your room holding a rose and when the girl doesn't call you you go burn her house down.
User avatar #474 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
He does give to us all the opportunity we need. But he wants us to earn the gift. And to walk up to us with it would cause all to accept without proving they will do what is right first. It's a test you see.
User avatar #478 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
A test for what?
User avatar #483 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
To see if we will earn heaven or reject God and earn hell.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I use this quote because it shows my point that God wants us to feel we are in control and not pressured so we may choose unbiasedly(as in, the bias one would have were there to be a giant eye staring from heaven at all moments, you wouldn't so much as sneeze)
He wants to see our true colors and what we will do and once we have done it, he will deal out what is deserved.
Why does he do this? I have no idea at all. He is a being of infinity and i can't even conjecture to how his mind works.(if you can call it a mind)
#302 - Because if it were known that to rape someone would cause you …  [+] (12 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -1
User avatar #310 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But your argument is that it will end badly for them anyway. Also, why is that a bad thing?
User avatar #333 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if i put you alone in a room with a cookie and tell you not to eat it then if you eat it i will be able to punish you for that or reward you if you don't eat it. But if i stand there tapping my foot you will never eat that cookie, not because you are choosing to do right, but because the punishment looms over you, keeping you from making any but one choice.
User avatar #354 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But the system is flawed. What about less significant crimes? By the bible, all sin is equal in the eyes of god. Even ignoring the inherent sin of existing, which I have never understood, lying to your mother about whether or not her cake was delicious will land you a spot in hell. Suppose someone had never even heard of the god concept, by your belief system they'd receive eternal damnation no matter how hard they tried to be a good person.
User avatar #376 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's two different topics, let me try to do one at a time.
No single sin will get you into hell except rejection of Jesus. You see all people sin, all men and women fall short, and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified, to symbolically show that we are saved through him and his love. Sin no longer matters because it can all be forgiven if you ask. But the catch is that to sincerely ask for forgiveness you must believe is God and his son Jesus(obviously) and if you believe in them then you will do your best to be as good and God like as possible despite the fact that you will fail and that all sin will be forgiven and not count against you. So sin doesn't matter, but if you believe in God, you will try to be sin free. If that doesn't make sense tell me and i will try to rephrase.
Secondly, all humans are given the opportunity to know God(i think, to my understanding that is right although i clearly can't prove it) but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did. All people come from the same lineage so at some point, if there were children not being taught about God, that is where the blame would lie, with the parents who did not pass on the knowledge. Perhaps those who don't know are judgged by the old testament rules or maybe God reveals himself to them personally to make sure. But also, we are supposed to spread the knowledge, so we too are partly to blame if there are a people we know of that do not know and we do not go help them. But it's all quit complicated and i don't claim to know exactly how it works. But if God is real, then he would have created a way an/or handled it fairly.
User avatar #394 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"...but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did"
Blatantly false. There are people all over the world who just aren't exposed to that kind of thing. It also doesn't help that there are three religions based around the same god, or that each of these religions has thousands of denominations, or that hallucinations are more reason to see a psychiatrist than a priest.
" You see all people sin, all men and women fall short"
Because it's an inherently unfair system. Original sin, the sin all man inherits for Adam and Eves eating of the apple, is a crime we are still being punished for. In fact it's why we're supposedly inherently evil beings and is why we "fall short". How many people do you know that you could honestly say deserve eternal pain and suffering of a caliber sure to drive them insane in less than a day?
User avatar #414 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I'm not explaining it well if you think it is unfair. It is more than fair, all you have to do to get into heaven is believe in Jesus, that's it, there is not amount of bad you can do and no amount of good you must do. Anyone can get in at any time in their life, all they have to do is accept Jesus and all sin is forgotten utterly and you will never be punished for it.
And my first statement is not false. it is fact that the first humans knew of this and their descendants were either taught or not taught. So if there was born a child who did not get exposed, you can trace back in their linage til you find the point where a certain parent failed to teach their child either because they themselves stopped believing, or because they simply did not realize they never said it.
#734 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
thats not "fair" thats "fear"... i dont see a legit reason for ur faith being as strong as it is besides the fear of going to hell
User avatar #738 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And that's where the term "God fearing" comes from. But you're not afraid of anything unfairly given, you should be afraid of deserving punishment. Afraid you will mess up and do wrong and in that way, do your best to be good. To be honest, just as strong as the fear of punishment is my fear of disappointing God.
User avatar #436 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
What do you think "fair" means? It doesn't matter how easy it is, the punishment is excessive, the reward isn't earned, the rules are unclear and not everyone knows they're playing the game. That's really not fair.
User avatar #451 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone. And if they do not, they will not be punished, but i find it hard to see any circumstance where you would not be exposed to God at some point.
The punishment equals the reward, but i will admit, the reward is not earned, it is given by a loving God even though no one manages to earn it.
User avatar #457 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone"
See, all that says to me is that you're in denial of how the world works. There ARE people who aren't exposed to the god concept. There ARE people who are only exposed to different gods to yours. There ARE people who are told your god is satan and to ignore everything to do with him. These people are not given a chance by your rules.
User avatar #470 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I agree with all expect the part about being given a chance. You see those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished, and those who hide God from others will be punished. It is a choice, and to be honest, you and i are probably in the wrong for knowing of God and not bringing him to those who are on the wrong path. Not to mention, if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right, if they so choose to seek it.
#296 - Yes, because it's not enough to do good deeds, you have to do …  [+] (18 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup 0
#735 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
for the right reason of "PLEASE SAVE ME GOD I DONT WANT TO GO TO HELL"
User avatar #737 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
No, that is not the thing that is supposed to drive you. You are supposed to help others out of love for God and love for others.
User avatar #482 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
We reached the end of the comment chain, so I'm responding to comment 470 here.
"Those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished"
As will their children of no fault of their own.
"if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right"
Literally every religious person ever has said pretty much that when faced with this question, you're exactly like all the others. You think you're right because you believe your text. Thing is, you're not the only one.
User avatar #492 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Ok, sounds good
But i did not say as would their children, it would be unfair to punish the child for being taught wrong, however the child will grow up and be faced with the choice of staying with what was taught or seeking other truths. And that is what will be judged in only the way an all seeing god can. And it's true, those who cling to false religions have chosen not to study enough to find the right answer, because God has put it there for us to find if we search, and we can choose not to seek it out, and that will be punished as well.
User avatar #495 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Have you gone out and studied every other religion in the world? If not, sit down. You can't say that you've sought the truth when you tried one, maybe two religions and stopped there because it felt nice.
User avatar #506 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I have done a lot of research and studying but i admit i am young and am far from finished. I started with the big picture, trying to get the general idea of each religion and then begin to study more thoroughly kind of at random and what things took my interest. So i am not an expert yet, but i am working on it haha
#309 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
For the reason that I would just want a better world, and that I believe people should care for each other and help one another. Not because some God told me to.

Wouldn't it be more meaningful and good that I did it because I genuinely think it's a good thing, and not to just avoid going to hell?
User avatar #321 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should do a good thing because God wants you too because he defines what a good thing is. Without that definition how do you even know what you are doing is good?
User avatar #335 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Empathy and enlightened self interest. How do you know its actually god giving you morality?
User avatar #357 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's the next logical step. And so it would seem logical that, if God wanted us to know how to act he would reveal it to us because the only way we could know is if he showed himself. And so that's what he did, he left us the bible, his word, written by humans but inspired and guided by him. Although he does not toss it into our laps, we must do a bit of searching to find out what the truth is(because there i more than one religion and some contradict one another so obviously not all are right). Because surly God did not put it out of anyone's reach or else how could he punish us for not following rules he placed out of our knowledge?
And how do you know those writings are the right one? That can only be determined by studying the writings and comparing them to all other writings. In doing so, the truth is designed to reveal itself(or at least that has been my experience up to now)
User avatar #371 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"the truth is designed to reveal itself"
All three abrahamic religions say that, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to history. That's really not evidence. You have to use something external to the book to demonstrate that the book is correct.
What do you mean by "That's the next logical step"?
User avatar #400 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I meant that when told "God gives us morality" "how do you know?" is the next logical question following it.
And the evidence does not have to be separate from the book it'self. There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency. I'm sure you've seen the claims of contradictions in the bible but i have followed up on ll those i have yet found and as of yet, all melt away when the verse is looked at in context, and looked at as the original translation(the English versions have a few problems that cause confusion)
So there is proof of the bible, but the best proof is the contents of the bible itself when compared to all other religious texts.
User avatar #428 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency."
See, I've heard this a thousand times, but when I look it up the prophecies that I find are self fulfilling and vague, the historical sites, people and events offer no evidence of a supernatural entity (See the counter argument "does spiderman exist because new york does?") and more often than not the same site is discovered in a dozen different places before people stop finding reasons that one of them isn't wrong. Noahs ark has been found on top of a lot of mountains at this point.
As for contradictions in the bible, here's a list made by NonStampCollector
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
User avatar #435 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I've actually seen this video before so yes, i know what you mean, but if you look for yourself you see all of these are just attempts to create contradiction where there is none.
And i agree on the Spiderman/New York argument, but the point of that part is that the events are not made up, they are based on real places so that at least is factual.
#331 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
That is a stupid argument. It's basically saying without god how do you know anything is what it is.

I know what I am doing is good because I personally believe it's good. Not because anyone, that being god or not told me it is.
User avatar #338 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is arbitrary. You literally made it up based on your experiences and others have made up things too. None can be relied on, there has to be a standard, an actual example of what is right and wrong and the only being who could create such a thing must be able to see everything.
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#262 - Not in the least, you fully chose to reject God and so you wil…  [+] (34 new replies) 02/19/2013 on yup -1
User avatar #298 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So why not skip the middleman? A rapist chooses to rape so instantly smite him. Prevent the suffering of the victim and punish the sinner. It's a better system.
User avatar #302 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if it were known that to rape someone would cause you to be instantly smited, no one would ever do it. Not because they know it is wrong, but because they know it will end badly for them.
User avatar #310 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But your argument is that it will end badly for them anyway. Also, why is that a bad thing?
User avatar #333 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if i put you alone in a room with a cookie and tell you not to eat it then if you eat it i will be able to punish you for that or reward you if you don't eat it. But if i stand there tapping my foot you will never eat that cookie, not because you are choosing to do right, but because the punishment looms over you, keeping you from making any but one choice.
User avatar #354 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But the system is flawed. What about less significant crimes? By the bible, all sin is equal in the eyes of god. Even ignoring the inherent sin of existing, which I have never understood, lying to your mother about whether or not her cake was delicious will land you a spot in hell. Suppose someone had never even heard of the god concept, by your belief system they'd receive eternal damnation no matter how hard they tried to be a good person.
User avatar #376 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's two different topics, let me try to do one at a time.
No single sin will get you into hell except rejection of Jesus. You see all people sin, all men and women fall short, and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified, to symbolically show that we are saved through him and his love. Sin no longer matters because it can all be forgiven if you ask. But the catch is that to sincerely ask for forgiveness you must believe is God and his son Jesus(obviously) and if you believe in them then you will do your best to be as good and God like as possible despite the fact that you will fail and that all sin will be forgiven and not count against you. So sin doesn't matter, but if you believe in God, you will try to be sin free. If that doesn't make sense tell me and i will try to rephrase.
Secondly, all humans are given the opportunity to know God(i think, to my understanding that is right although i clearly can't prove it) but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did. All people come from the same lineage so at some point, if there were children not being taught about God, that is where the blame would lie, with the parents who did not pass on the knowledge. Perhaps those who don't know are judgged by the old testament rules or maybe God reveals himself to them personally to make sure. But also, we are supposed to spread the knowledge, so we too are partly to blame if there are a people we know of that do not know and we do not go help them. But it's all quit complicated and i don't claim to know exactly how it works. But if God is real, then he would have created a way an/or handled it fairly.
User avatar #394 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"...but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did"
Blatantly false. There are people all over the world who just aren't exposed to that kind of thing. It also doesn't help that there are three religions based around the same god, or that each of these religions has thousands of denominations, or that hallucinations are more reason to see a psychiatrist than a priest.
" You see all people sin, all men and women fall short"
Because it's an inherently unfair system. Original sin, the sin all man inherits for Adam and Eves eating of the apple, is a crime we are still being punished for. In fact it's why we're supposedly inherently evil beings and is why we "fall short". How many people do you know that you could honestly say deserve eternal pain and suffering of a caliber sure to drive them insane in less than a day?
User avatar #414 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I'm not explaining it well if you think it is unfair. It is more than fair, all you have to do to get into heaven is believe in Jesus, that's it, there is not amount of bad you can do and no amount of good you must do. Anyone can get in at any time in their life, all they have to do is accept Jesus and all sin is forgotten utterly and you will never be punished for it.
And my first statement is not false. it is fact that the first humans knew of this and their descendants were either taught or not taught. So if there was born a child who did not get exposed, you can trace back in their linage til you find the point where a certain parent failed to teach their child either because they themselves stopped believing, or because they simply did not realize they never said it.
#734 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
thats not "fair" thats "fear"... i dont see a legit reason for ur faith being as strong as it is besides the fear of going to hell
User avatar #738 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And that's where the term "God fearing" comes from. But you're not afraid of anything unfairly given, you should be afraid of deserving punishment. Afraid you will mess up and do wrong and in that way, do your best to be good. To be honest, just as strong as the fear of punishment is my fear of disappointing God.
User avatar #436 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
What do you think "fair" means? It doesn't matter how easy it is, the punishment is excessive, the reward isn't earned, the rules are unclear and not everyone knows they're playing the game. That's really not fair.
User avatar #451 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone. And if they do not, they will not be punished, but i find it hard to see any circumstance where you would not be exposed to God at some point.
The punishment equals the reward, but i will admit, the reward is not earned, it is given by a loving God even though no one manages to earn it.
User avatar #457 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone"
See, all that says to me is that you're in denial of how the world works. There ARE people who aren't exposed to the god concept. There ARE people who are only exposed to different gods to yours. There ARE people who are told your god is satan and to ignore everything to do with him. These people are not given a chance by your rules.
User avatar #470 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I agree with all expect the part about being given a chance. You see those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished, and those who hide God from others will be punished. It is a choice, and to be honest, you and i are probably in the wrong for knowing of God and not bringing him to those who are on the wrong path. Not to mention, if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right, if they so choose to seek it.
#287 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So I could have helped millions of people, done charities, cured cancer, saved a fuck ton of people's lives, just was a great person who always gave and helped others and expected nothing in return, but because I didn't believe in him he's going to punish me and send me to hell?
User avatar #296 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, because it's not enough to do good deeds, you have to do them for the right reason.
#735 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
for the right reason of "PLEASE SAVE ME GOD I DONT WANT TO GO TO HELL"
User avatar #737 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
No, that is not the thing that is supposed to drive you. You are supposed to help others out of love for God and love for others.
User avatar #482 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
We reached the end of the comment chain, so I'm responding to comment 470 here.
"Those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished"
As will their children of no fault of their own.
"if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right"
Literally every religious person ever has said pretty much that when faced with this question, you're exactly like all the others. You think you're right because you believe your text. Thing is, you're not the only one.
User avatar #492 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Ok, sounds good
But i did not say as would their children, it would be unfair to punish the child for being taught wrong, however the child will grow up and be faced with the choice of staying with what was taught or seeking other truths. And that is what will be judged in only the way an all seeing god can. And it's true, those who cling to false religions have chosen not to study enough to find the right answer, because God has put it there for us to find if we search, and we can choose not to seek it out, and that will be punished as well.
User avatar #495 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Have you gone out and studied every other religion in the world? If not, sit down. You can't say that you've sought the truth when you tried one, maybe two religions and stopped there because it felt nice.
User avatar #506 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I have done a lot of research and studying but i admit i am young and am far from finished. I started with the big picture, trying to get the general idea of each religion and then begin to study more thoroughly kind of at random and what things took my interest. So i am not an expert yet, but i am working on it haha
#309 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
For the reason that I would just want a better world, and that I believe people should care for each other and help one another. Not because some God told me to.

Wouldn't it be more meaningful and good that I did it because I genuinely think it's a good thing, and not to just avoid going to hell?
User avatar #321 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should do a good thing because God wants you too because he defines what a good thing is. Without that definition how do you even know what you are doing is good?
User avatar #335 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Empathy and enlightened self interest. How do you know its actually god giving you morality?
User avatar #357 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's the next logical step. And so it would seem logical that, if God wanted us to know how to act he would reveal it to us because the only way we could know is if he showed himself. And so that's what he did, he left us the bible, his word, written by humans but inspired and guided by him. Although he does not toss it into our laps, we must do a bit of searching to find out what the truth is(because there i more than one religion and some contradict one another so obviously not all are right). Because surly God did not put it out of anyone's reach or else how could he punish us for not following rules he placed out of our knowledge?
And how do you know those writings are the right one? That can only be determined by studying the writings and comparing them to all other writings. In doing so, the truth is designed to reveal itself(or at least that has been my experience up to now)
User avatar #371 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"the truth is designed to reveal itself"
All three abrahamic religions say that, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to history. That's really not evidence. You have to use something external to the book to demonstrate that the book is correct.
What do you mean by "That's the next logical step"?
User avatar #400 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I meant that when told "God gives us morality" "how do you know?" is the next logical question following it.
And the evidence does not have to be separate from the book it'self. There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency. I'm sure you've seen the claims of contradictions in the bible but i have followed up on ll those i have yet found and as of yet, all melt away when the verse is looked at in context, and looked at as the original translation(the English versions have a few problems that cause confusion)
So there is proof of the bible, but the best proof is the contents of the bible itself when compared to all other religious texts.
User avatar #428 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency."
See, I've heard this a thousand times, but when I look it up the prophecies that I find are self fulfilling and vague, the historical sites, people and events offer no evidence of a supernatural entity (See the counter argument "does spiderman exist because new york does?") and more often than not the same site is discovered in a dozen different places before people stop finding reasons that one of them isn't wrong. Noahs ark has been found on top of a lot of mountains at this point.
As for contradictions in the bible, here's a list made by NonStampCollector
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
User avatar #435 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I've actually seen this video before so yes, i know what you mean, but if you look for yourself you see all of these are just attempts to create contradiction where there is none.
And i agree on the Spiderman/New York argument, but the point of that part is that the events are not made up, they are based on real places so that at least is factual.
#331 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
That is a stupid argument. It's basically saying without god how do you know anything is what it is.

I know what I am doing is good because I personally believe it's good. Not because anyone, that being god or not told me it is.
User avatar #338 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is arbitrary. You literally made it up based on your experiences and others have made up things too. None can be relied on, there has to be a standard, an actual example of what is right and wrong and the only being who could create such a thing must be able to see everything.
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#241 - And that only goes to say that that man should not have done t…  [+] (36 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup -1
#251 - ThatDeadGuy (02/18/2013) [-]
Hmm. So what happens to me for not believing in God, or praying or any other religious things? Do I go to hell for defying him? But doesn't that take away my freedom of choice?
User avatar #262 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Not in the least, you fully chose to reject God and so you will be sent to hell as punishment.
User avatar #298 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So why not skip the middleman? A rapist chooses to rape so instantly smite him. Prevent the suffering of the victim and punish the sinner. It's a better system.
User avatar #302 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if it were known that to rape someone would cause you to be instantly smited, no one would ever do it. Not because they know it is wrong, but because they know it will end badly for them.
User avatar #310 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But your argument is that it will end badly for them anyway. Also, why is that a bad thing?
User avatar #333 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if i put you alone in a room with a cookie and tell you not to eat it then if you eat it i will be able to punish you for that or reward you if you don't eat it. But if i stand there tapping my foot you will never eat that cookie, not because you are choosing to do right, but because the punishment looms over you, keeping you from making any but one choice.
User avatar #354 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But the system is flawed. What about less significant crimes? By the bible, all sin is equal in the eyes of god. Even ignoring the inherent sin of existing, which I have never understood, lying to your mother about whether or not her cake was delicious will land you a spot in hell. Suppose someone had never even heard of the god concept, by your belief system they'd receive eternal damnation no matter how hard they tried to be a good person.
User avatar #376 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's two different topics, let me try to do one at a time.
No single sin will get you into hell except rejection of Jesus. You see all people sin, all men and women fall short, and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified, to symbolically show that we are saved through him and his love. Sin no longer matters because it can all be forgiven if you ask. But the catch is that to sincerely ask for forgiveness you must believe is God and his son Jesus(obviously) and if you believe in them then you will do your best to be as good and God like as possible despite the fact that you will fail and that all sin will be forgiven and not count against you. So sin doesn't matter, but if you believe in God, you will try to be sin free. If that doesn't make sense tell me and i will try to rephrase.
Secondly, all humans are given the opportunity to know God(i think, to my understanding that is right although i clearly can't prove it) but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did. All people come from the same lineage so at some point, if there were children not being taught about God, that is where the blame would lie, with the parents who did not pass on the knowledge. Perhaps those who don't know are judgged by the old testament rules or maybe God reveals himself to them personally to make sure. But also, we are supposed to spread the knowledge, so we too are partly to blame if there are a people we know of that do not know and we do not go help them. But it's all quit complicated and i don't claim to know exactly how it works. But if God is real, then he would have created a way an/or handled it fairly.
User avatar #394 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"...but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did"
Blatantly false. There are people all over the world who just aren't exposed to that kind of thing. It also doesn't help that there are three religions based around the same god, or that each of these religions has thousands of denominations, or that hallucinations are more reason to see a psychiatrist than a priest.
" You see all people sin, all men and women fall short"
Because it's an inherently unfair system. Original sin, the sin all man inherits for Adam and Eves eating of the apple, is a crime we are still being punished for. In fact it's why we're supposedly inherently evil beings and is why we "fall short". How many people do you know that you could honestly say deserve eternal pain and suffering of a caliber sure to drive them insane in less than a day?
User avatar #414 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I'm not explaining it well if you think it is unfair. It is more than fair, all you have to do to get into heaven is believe in Jesus, that's it, there is not amount of bad you can do and no amount of good you must do. Anyone can get in at any time in their life, all they have to do is accept Jesus and all sin is forgotten utterly and you will never be punished for it.
And my first statement is not false. it is fact that the first humans knew of this and their descendants were either taught or not taught. So if there was born a child who did not get exposed, you can trace back in their linage til you find the point where a certain parent failed to teach their child either because they themselves stopped believing, or because they simply did not realize they never said it.
#734 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
thats not "fair" thats "fear"... i dont see a legit reason for ur faith being as strong as it is besides the fear of going to hell
User avatar #738 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And that's where the term "God fearing" comes from. But you're not afraid of anything unfairly given, you should be afraid of deserving punishment. Afraid you will mess up and do wrong and in that way, do your best to be good. To be honest, just as strong as the fear of punishment is my fear of disappointing God.
User avatar #436 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
What do you think "fair" means? It doesn't matter how easy it is, the punishment is excessive, the reward isn't earned, the rules are unclear and not everyone knows they're playing the game. That's really not fair.
User avatar #451 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone. And if they do not, they will not be punished, but i find it hard to see any circumstance where you would not be exposed to God at some point.
The punishment equals the reward, but i will admit, the reward is not earned, it is given by a loving God even though no one manages to earn it.
User avatar #457 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone"
See, all that says to me is that you're in denial of how the world works. There ARE people who aren't exposed to the god concept. There ARE people who are only exposed to different gods to yours. There ARE people who are told your god is satan and to ignore everything to do with him. These people are not given a chance by your rules.
User avatar #470 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I agree with all expect the part about being given a chance. You see those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished, and those who hide God from others will be punished. It is a choice, and to be honest, you and i are probably in the wrong for knowing of God and not bringing him to those who are on the wrong path. Not to mention, if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right, if they so choose to seek it.
#287 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So I could have helped millions of people, done charities, cured cancer, saved a fuck ton of people's lives, just was a great person who always gave and helped others and expected nothing in return, but because I didn't believe in him he's going to punish me and send me to hell?
User avatar #296 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, because it's not enough to do good deeds, you have to do them for the right reason.
#735 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
for the right reason of "PLEASE SAVE ME GOD I DONT WANT TO GO TO HELL"
User avatar #737 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
No, that is not the thing that is supposed to drive you. You are supposed to help others out of love for God and love for others.
User avatar #482 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
We reached the end of the comment chain, so I'm responding to comment 470 here.
"Those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished"
As will their children of no fault of their own.
"if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right"
Literally every religious person ever has said pretty much that when faced with this question, you're exactly like all the others. You think you're right because you believe your text. Thing is, you're not the only one.
User avatar #492 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Ok, sounds good
But i did not say as would their children, it would be unfair to punish the child for being taught wrong, however the child will grow up and be faced with the choice of staying with what was taught or seeking other truths. And that is what will be judged in only the way an all seeing god can. And it's true, those who cling to false religions have chosen not to study enough to find the right answer, because God has put it there for us to find if we search, and we can choose not to seek it out, and that will be punished as well.
User avatar #495 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Have you gone out and studied every other religion in the world? If not, sit down. You can't say that you've sought the truth when you tried one, maybe two religions and stopped there because it felt nice.
User avatar #506 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I have done a lot of research and studying but i admit i am young and am far from finished. I started with the big picture, trying to get the general idea of each religion and then begin to study more thoroughly kind of at random and what things took my interest. So i am not an expert yet, but i am working on it haha
#309 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
For the reason that I would just want a better world, and that I believe people should care for each other and help one another. Not because some God told me to.

Wouldn't it be more meaningful and good that I did it because I genuinely think it's a good thing, and not to just avoid going to hell?
User avatar #321 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should do a good thing because God wants you too because he defines what a good thing is. Without that definition how do you even know what you are doing is good?
User avatar #335 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Empathy and enlightened self interest. How do you know its actually god giving you morality?
User avatar #357 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's the next logical step. And so it would seem logical that, if God wanted us to know how to act he would reveal it to us because the only way we could know is if he showed himself. And so that's what he did, he left us the bible, his word, written by humans but inspired and guided by him. Although he does not toss it into our laps, we must do a bit of searching to find out what the truth is(because there i more than one religion and some contradict one another so obviously not all are right). Because surly God did not put it out of anyone's reach or else how could he punish us for not following rules he placed out of our knowledge?
And how do you know those writings are the right one? That can only be determined by studying the writings and comparing them to all other writings. In doing so, the truth is designed to reveal itself(or at least that has been my experience up to now)
User avatar #371 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"the truth is designed to reveal itself"
All three abrahamic religions say that, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to history. That's really not evidence. You have to use something external to the book to demonstrate that the book is correct.
What do you mean by "That's the next logical step"?
User avatar #400 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I meant that when told "God gives us morality" "how do you know?" is the next logical question following it.
And the evidence does not have to be separate from the book it'self. There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency. I'm sure you've seen the claims of contradictions in the bible but i have followed up on ll those i have yet found and as of yet, all melt away when the verse is looked at in context, and looked at as the original translation(the English versions have a few problems that cause confusion)
So there is proof of the bible, but the best proof is the contents of the bible itself when compared to all other religious texts.
User avatar #428 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency."
See, I've heard this a thousand times, but when I look it up the prophecies that I find are self fulfilling and vague, the historical sites, people and events offer no evidence of a supernatural entity (See the counter argument "does spiderman exist because new york does?") and more often than not the same site is discovered in a dozen different places before people stop finding reasons that one of them isn't wrong. Noahs ark has been found on top of a lot of mountains at this point.
As for contradictions in the bible, here's a list made by NonStampCollector
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
User avatar #435 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I've actually seen this video before so yes, i know what you mean, but if you look for yourself you see all of these are just attempts to create contradiction where there is none.
And i agree on the Spiderman/New York argument, but the point of that part is that the events are not made up, they are based on real places so that at least is factual.
#331 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
That is a stupid argument. It's basically saying without god how do you know anything is what it is.

I know what I am doing is good because I personally believe it's good. Not because anyone, that being god or not told me it is.
User avatar #338 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is arbitrary. You literally made it up based on your experiences and others have made up things too. None can be relied on, there has to be a standard, an actual example of what is right and wrong and the only being who could create such a thing must be able to see everything.
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#235 - It does not ignore the consequences that the child would suffe…  [+] (38 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup -1
#236 - ThatDeadGuy (02/18/2013) [-]
The man being punished does that take away the fact that someone got raped and had to live with that for the rest of their lives, probably with insecurities and a lot of counselling.
User avatar #241 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
And that only goes to say that that man should not have done that. He will be punished, but in this life, there is no way to compensate that rape victim for their pain. It is part of life and can only be prevented. But that still does not take away from the fact that God will not deny us our freedom to choose what we do, even to prevent harm to others. You cannot be rewarded nor punished for actions you don't do so if you can do wrong, then you can't be rewarded for not doing wrong.
#251 - ThatDeadGuy (02/18/2013) [-]
Hmm. So what happens to me for not believing in God, or praying or any other religious things? Do I go to hell for defying him? But doesn't that take away my freedom of choice?
User avatar #262 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Not in the least, you fully chose to reject God and so you will be sent to hell as punishment.
User avatar #298 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So why not skip the middleman? A rapist chooses to rape so instantly smite him. Prevent the suffering of the victim and punish the sinner. It's a better system.
User avatar #302 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if it were known that to rape someone would cause you to be instantly smited, no one would ever do it. Not because they know it is wrong, but because they know it will end badly for them.
User avatar #310 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But your argument is that it will end badly for them anyway. Also, why is that a bad thing?
User avatar #333 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Because if i put you alone in a room with a cookie and tell you not to eat it then if you eat it i will be able to punish you for that or reward you if you don't eat it. But if i stand there tapping my foot you will never eat that cookie, not because you are choosing to do right, but because the punishment looms over you, keeping you from making any but one choice.
User avatar #354 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But the system is flawed. What about less significant crimes? By the bible, all sin is equal in the eyes of god. Even ignoring the inherent sin of existing, which I have never understood, lying to your mother about whether or not her cake was delicious will land you a spot in hell. Suppose someone had never even heard of the god concept, by your belief system they'd receive eternal damnation no matter how hard they tried to be a good person.
User avatar #376 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's two different topics, let me try to do one at a time.
No single sin will get you into hell except rejection of Jesus. You see all people sin, all men and women fall short, and that is why Jesus allowed himself to be crucified, to symbolically show that we are saved through him and his love. Sin no longer matters because it can all be forgiven if you ask. But the catch is that to sincerely ask for forgiveness you must believe is God and his son Jesus(obviously) and if you believe in them then you will do your best to be as good and God like as possible despite the fact that you will fail and that all sin will be forgiven and not count against you. So sin doesn't matter, but if you believe in God, you will try to be sin free. If that doesn't make sense tell me and i will try to rephrase.
Secondly, all humans are given the opportunity to know God(i think, to my understanding that is right although i clearly can't prove it) but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did. All people come from the same lineage so at some point, if there were children not being taught about God, that is where the blame would lie, with the parents who did not pass on the knowledge. Perhaps those who don't know are judgged by the old testament rules or maybe God reveals himself to them personally to make sure. But also, we are supposed to spread the knowledge, so we too are partly to blame if there are a people we know of that do not know and we do not go help them. But it's all quit complicated and i don't claim to know exactly how it works. But if God is real, then he would have created a way an/or handled it fairly.
User avatar #394 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"...but even if there were people who never hear of Jesus or God, their parents did"
Blatantly false. There are people all over the world who just aren't exposed to that kind of thing. It also doesn't help that there are three religions based around the same god, or that each of these religions has thousands of denominations, or that hallucinations are more reason to see a psychiatrist than a priest.
" You see all people sin, all men and women fall short"
Because it's an inherently unfair system. Original sin, the sin all man inherits for Adam and Eves eating of the apple, is a crime we are still being punished for. In fact it's why we're supposedly inherently evil beings and is why we "fall short". How many people do you know that you could honestly say deserve eternal pain and suffering of a caliber sure to drive them insane in less than a day?
User avatar #414 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I'm not explaining it well if you think it is unfair. It is more than fair, all you have to do to get into heaven is believe in Jesus, that's it, there is not amount of bad you can do and no amount of good you must do. Anyone can get in at any time in their life, all they have to do is accept Jesus and all sin is forgotten utterly and you will never be punished for it.
And my first statement is not false. it is fact that the first humans knew of this and their descendants were either taught or not taught. So if there was born a child who did not get exposed, you can trace back in their linage til you find the point where a certain parent failed to teach their child either because they themselves stopped believing, or because they simply did not realize they never said it.
#734 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
thats not "fair" thats "fear"... i dont see a legit reason for ur faith being as strong as it is besides the fear of going to hell
User avatar #738 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
And that's where the term "God fearing" comes from. But you're not afraid of anything unfairly given, you should be afraid of deserving punishment. Afraid you will mess up and do wrong and in that way, do your best to be good. To be honest, just as strong as the fear of punishment is my fear of disappointing God.
User avatar #436 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
What do you think "fair" means? It doesn't matter how easy it is, the punishment is excessive, the reward isn't earned, the rules are unclear and not everyone knows they're playing the game. That's really not fair.
User avatar #451 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone. And if they do not, they will not be punished, but i find it hard to see any circumstance where you would not be exposed to God at some point.
The punishment equals the reward, but i will admit, the reward is not earned, it is given by a loving God even though no one manages to earn it.
User avatar #457 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"Everyone does know they are playing the game, everyone"
See, all that says to me is that you're in denial of how the world works. There ARE people who aren't exposed to the god concept. There ARE people who are only exposed to different gods to yours. There ARE people who are told your god is satan and to ignore everything to do with him. These people are not given a chance by your rules.
User avatar #470 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I agree with all expect the part about being given a chance. You see those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished, and those who hide God from others will be punished. It is a choice, and to be honest, you and i are probably in the wrong for knowing of God and not bringing him to those who are on the wrong path. Not to mention, if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right, if they so choose to seek it.
#287 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
So I could have helped millions of people, done charities, cured cancer, saved a fuck ton of people's lives, just was a great person who always gave and helped others and expected nothing in return, but because I didn't believe in him he's going to punish me and send me to hell?
User avatar #296 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, because it's not enough to do good deeds, you have to do them for the right reason.
#735 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
for the right reason of "PLEASE SAVE ME GOD I DONT WANT TO GO TO HELL"
User avatar #737 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
No, that is not the thing that is supposed to drive you. You are supposed to help others out of love for God and love for others.
User avatar #482 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
We reached the end of the comment chain, so I'm responding to comment 470 here.
"Those who teach that God is bad are the ones who will be punished"
As will their children of no fault of their own.
"if they are following a false religion then they will study it, and in doing so they will see that it contradicts with what is in their hearts and lead them to seek what is right"
Literally every religious person ever has said pretty much that when faced with this question, you're exactly like all the others. You think you're right because you believe your text. Thing is, you're not the only one.
User avatar #492 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Ok, sounds good
But i did not say as would their children, it would be unfair to punish the child for being taught wrong, however the child will grow up and be faced with the choice of staying with what was taught or seeking other truths. And that is what will be judged in only the way an all seeing god can. And it's true, those who cling to false religions have chosen not to study enough to find the right answer, because God has put it there for us to find if we search, and we can choose not to seek it out, and that will be punished as well.
User avatar #495 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Have you gone out and studied every other religion in the world? If not, sit down. You can't say that you've sought the truth when you tried one, maybe two religions and stopped there because it felt nice.
User avatar #506 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I have done a lot of research and studying but i admit i am young and am far from finished. I started with the big picture, trying to get the general idea of each religion and then begin to study more thoroughly kind of at random and what things took my interest. So i am not an expert yet, but i am working on it haha
#309 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
For the reason that I would just want a better world, and that I believe people should care for each other and help one another. Not because some God told me to.

Wouldn't it be more meaningful and good that I did it because I genuinely think it's a good thing, and not to just avoid going to hell?
User avatar #321 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should do a good thing because God wants you too because he defines what a good thing is. Without that definition how do you even know what you are doing is good?
User avatar #335 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
Empathy and enlightened self interest. How do you know its actually god giving you morality?
User avatar #357 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's the next logical step. And so it would seem logical that, if God wanted us to know how to act he would reveal it to us because the only way we could know is if he showed himself. And so that's what he did, he left us the bible, his word, written by humans but inspired and guided by him. Although he does not toss it into our laps, we must do a bit of searching to find out what the truth is(because there i more than one religion and some contradict one another so obviously not all are right). Because surly God did not put it out of anyone's reach or else how could he punish us for not following rules he placed out of our knowledge?
And how do you know those writings are the right one? That can only be determined by studying the writings and comparing them to all other writings. In doing so, the truth is designed to reveal itself(or at least that has been my experience up to now)
User avatar #371 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"the truth is designed to reveal itself"
All three abrahamic religions say that, not even paying attention to the rest of the world, not even paying attention to history. That's really not evidence. You have to use something external to the book to demonstrate that the book is correct.
What do you mean by "That's the next logical step"?
User avatar #400 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I meant that when told "God gives us morality" "how do you know?" is the next logical question following it.
And the evidence does not have to be separate from the book it'self. There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency. I'm sure you've seen the claims of contradictions in the bible but i have followed up on ll those i have yet found and as of yet, all melt away when the verse is looked at in context, and looked at as the original translation(the English versions have a few problems that cause confusion)
So there is proof of the bible, but the best proof is the contents of the bible itself when compared to all other religious texts.
User avatar #428 - RandomAnonGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
"There are prophesies in the book that can be shown to have come true with great accuracy, there are historical sites, people, and events that can be collaborated with modern historical understanding, and most importantly the bible it'self can be shown to be flawless in both it's moral logic and it's overall coherency."
See, I've heard this a thousand times, but when I look it up the prophecies that I find are self fulfilling and vague, the historical sites, people and events offer no evidence of a supernatural entity (See the counter argument "does spiderman exist because new york does?") and more often than not the same site is discovered in a dozen different places before people stop finding reasons that one of them isn't wrong. Noahs ark has been found on top of a lot of mountains at this point.
As for contradictions in the bible, here's a list made by NonStampCollector
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk
User avatar #435 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I've actually seen this video before so yes, i know what you mean, but if you look for yourself you see all of these are just attempts to create contradiction where there is none.
And i agree on the Spiderman/New York argument, but the point of that part is that the events are not made up, they are based on real places so that at least is factual.
#331 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
That is a stupid argument. It's basically saying without god how do you know anything is what it is.

I know what I am doing is good because I personally believe it's good. Not because anyone, that being god or not told me it is.
User avatar #338 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Yes, you personally believe it is good. In other words, it is arbitrary. You literally made it up based on your experiences and others have made up things too. None can be relied on, there has to be a standard, an actual example of what is right and wrong and the only being who could create such a thing must be able to see everything.
#368 - ThatDeadGuy (02/19/2013) [-]
But god doesn't create what is right and wrong, there is no such thing. it's just us humans' view and opinions. there is no standard, there is no list that definitely states something is right or wrong (even though morally we know some are and are not), people have different opinions on what is right and wrong. god has done 0 things in my life for me to say 'holy shit, that is right/wrong'. god cannot create something that is not possible, unless he wants to take away our free will

this is turning into more of a philosophical debate, which i am not interested in.

do you not do bad things because you genuinely think it's wrong, or plainly because god tells you not to?
User avatar #384 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You see, God made us as designed into our world and our bodies what is wrong. e created morality and then showed us what we should/ shouldn't do through the bible and revealing himself to those who wrote it. And yes, we do have ingrained morality that God "wrote in our hearts" that is talked about in the bible. But then morality doesn't actually deal with actions, it deals with intents. What you meant to do.
So there is a set true right and true wrong, and we get to choose what we do accordingly. Nothing impossible about that.
#208 - Well good, have a good day. 02/18/2013 on yup +1
#205 - Yes, you can most certainly thank God for putting every person…  [+] (24 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup 0
#736 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
and if all that man wants to do is rape children why is it chemically impossible for him to not do so because if you didnt know some people literally are UNABLE to think like that they can NEVER think of raping children or being violent in general so why should i thank god for setting some people up like that (because they were born that way) but not blame him for the framework of the rapist's mind
User avatar #739 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Is it that they can't help doing it? I have no idea, it would require omnipotence to judge that fairly. But i can say that they will only be punished for what they do wrong, and if it is a medical condition, then surly you would agree that if we all worked for it a cure could be found? So that is why they are there, for us to try and help.
And God created you, you don't think you owe him any gratitude for giving you life? I'm not saying he made you do good things or bad things, but he did give you the hands with which you choose to act.
#740 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i dont want to believe that im gods plaything, that he put us here to see what we'd do to each other thats sadistic and sick, because yea its the rapist choice to rape her but how is she being tested, "lets see you get outta this one" said one indifferent god to his "child"
User avatar #741 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Do you think parents who have a planned child have them to use as a plaything? God put us here not to toy with us but because he loves us. Remember that God loves the rapist just as much as the little girl. The rapist is not a test for the little girl, the rapist was a test for the rapist that he failed.
#742 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
first of all thats a stupid fucking test because all the guy has to do is ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven and the girl is still raped, and second you cant equate god to our parents because our parents are actually active in helping us during life, not just watching and hoping we make good decisions
User avatar #743 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I think God is a good example of a parent, it's true he does not baby us but he does effect us. And yes, if he asks for forgiveness and truly repents, even rape can be forgiven. God will forgive anything but after you accept him there is no going back, you will live the rest of your life as best you can.
#760 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying that at all, if you look back at your statement your trying to say that your better because you do all you can for others which i agree is a very good quality but im saying i refuse to be subservient to people who can take advantage of me.. you are deluded you see only the good in yourself and your god and u reject the rest.. yes its good to be humble and see everyone as equals but not to the extent of lowering yourself to be stepped on controlled and manipulated by anyone and you refuse to see that point
User avatar #762 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I did not say i was better. And yes, i do have the power to help others but everyone has that power if by doing nothing more than being a caring individual, it's not a power statement in the least.
And i do not let anyone control me. God does not control me but his words are true and i follow them because i want too, because it's right. And please don't misunderstand, i NEVER said there was only good in me, i am fallible just like anyone. No one can control you, you are your own person, and if you would put your pride aside you would see that helping others is not submitting to them, loving them is not letting them step on you. You become invincible once nothing in this word besides other people matter to you, no one can hurt you, no one can steal from you. Suddenly you have control over everything once you realize what matters in life.
#758 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying i know all but what i know, a priori to be true, is what i will follow and you who would allow yourself to be walked on will find that you will fall into becoming a subservient being instead of being your own person
User avatar #759 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I do agree that i attempt to be sub servant and do all i can for others. But i don't see how that makes you less of a person to care about others in the same way you would yourself
#755 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im sorry its not letting me reply to each comment pardon the constant switching, but i wasnt saying god is lying to me but the people lying about speaking to god in the first place and i know what humble means but i also believe you need your pride as to not be walked over when someone is telling you to do or believe something that goes against what knowledge i have accumulated myself
User avatar #757 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should let yourself be walked on. The bible says that if asked for your cloak give your shirt too. To turn the other cheek when hit. To be humble and act as though no one is below you in any way. But you should also protect yourself and follow what you see to be true. I know it can seem hard to believe when you look at the world that so full of lies, but when you look at the bible, it proves itself by the truth it speaks, i have found this to be true in no other religious text. So just keep in mind, yes you should follow your knowledge base, but that very knowledge base could possibly e wrong, you are not all knowing after all.
#752 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i am humble.. i do not boast about being superior, i believe in reason and if i have no reason to suck god's cock i will not take the word of someone who could be lying to me to get me to do their bidding
User avatar #753 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
If God were lying to you then that would be unfair but there is n reason to think he is. He gave you life just to lie to you? That seems unlikely seeing how he would lose nothing at all to fulfill all the things he promises and says anyway. And while your statement is brash, it shows that you indeed do not know what it means to be humble.
#750 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
yes he does let us fall because all he has to do is step down and show that he is real and no one would argue in the slightest but noo he goes to select people and whispers in their ear... you know what fuck it id rather not exist that to suck gods cock to get into heaven
User avatar #751 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's your pride talking. One should be humble.
But that's the point, God does not reveal himself in grandeur because if he were, no one would sin or even so much as sneeze because they would have a great glowing eye above them at all times. In order to truly allow us choice, he can't bully us into things. So he does not allows us to slip, he lets us walk down the path we choose.
#748 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
but we have to stroke his benevolent vanity for him to cater our souls otherwise he lets them fall to an angel that he created to be tortured if thats love i dont want to kno what you think hate is
User avatar #749 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
is that too much to ask? When he created us, lets us exist, is giving back gratitude more taking too much?
And no, he does not let us fall, he gives us the choice to either follow him or follow sin. We do not automatically fall to it without his intervention but we do need his guidance to keep from being tempted.
#746 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if a parent did that to a child they'd be arrested, so if god existed he would be arrested
User avatar #747 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God does nothing to us but give us freedom and then even if the worst should happen and we die he caters our souls in the after life. If that's cruel then i have no idea what you consider loving
#744 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if god was a parent he'd be arrested
User avatar #789 - waldowarcraft (02/20/2013) [-]
I agree. The Christian god would be charged with neglect, abuse, and murder. Lets not forget the planned infanticide where he/ angel of death (on his command) killed every first born Egyptian child because of the current slave-trade situation. This action alone shows how how he doesn't understand parenting. He tore Families apart with the worst thing that could ever happen to them, the loss of a child. What parent would do that to another parent? and why did the babies suffer for what a Pharaoh ordered? Yeah pretty fucked up parenting.
User avatar #745 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
haha, well i have to say i disagree, he puts us here to see what we are made of and then judges us by it without error, that's a pretty good parent
#733 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
no but i dont thank god for putting me here wen i do something good as well so u cant chop off the bad and give god credit only wen it makes him look good
#200 - Well at least you were true to your word. 02/18/2013 on yup +2
#197 - That's not what i said at all. You're not thanking God for mak…  [+] (26 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup 0
#203 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
if i can thank god for putting the doctor there then you can blame him for putting the rapist there... you can't be like "ok you CAN rape that girl but i wanna see if you dont" and then turn to the little girl and say "ok honey this man might rape you, wait like a good little girl and hope for the best"
User avatar #205 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
Yes, you can most certainly thank God for putting every person who has ever been there. But that doesn't mean you can blame him for their actions. I never said you thank God for making the doctor save you, i said you thank him for the doctor. And you can most certainly thank God for putting the man who rapes children here but you can't blame God for his actions.
Surly you have done something bad in your life, would you blame God for putting you here so you could do it?
#736 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
and if all that man wants to do is rape children why is it chemically impossible for him to not do so because if you didnt know some people literally are UNABLE to think like that they can NEVER think of raping children or being violent in general so why should i thank god for setting some people up like that (because they were born that way) but not blame him for the framework of the rapist's mind
User avatar #739 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Is it that they can't help doing it? I have no idea, it would require omnipotence to judge that fairly. But i can say that they will only be punished for what they do wrong, and if it is a medical condition, then surly you would agree that if we all worked for it a cure could be found? So that is why they are there, for us to try and help.
And God created you, you don't think you owe him any gratitude for giving you life? I'm not saying he made you do good things or bad things, but he did give you the hands with which you choose to act.
#740 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i dont want to believe that im gods plaything, that he put us here to see what we'd do to each other thats sadistic and sick, because yea its the rapist choice to rape her but how is she being tested, "lets see you get outta this one" said one indifferent god to his "child"
User avatar #741 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Do you think parents who have a planned child have them to use as a plaything? God put us here not to toy with us but because he loves us. Remember that God loves the rapist just as much as the little girl. The rapist is not a test for the little girl, the rapist was a test for the rapist that he failed.
#742 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
first of all thats a stupid fucking test because all the guy has to do is ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven and the girl is still raped, and second you cant equate god to our parents because our parents are actually active in helping us during life, not just watching and hoping we make good decisions
User avatar #743 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I think God is a good example of a parent, it's true he does not baby us but he does effect us. And yes, if he asks for forgiveness and truly repents, even rape can be forgiven. God will forgive anything but after you accept him there is no going back, you will live the rest of your life as best you can.
#760 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying that at all, if you look back at your statement your trying to say that your better because you do all you can for others which i agree is a very good quality but im saying i refuse to be subservient to people who can take advantage of me.. you are deluded you see only the good in yourself and your god and u reject the rest.. yes its good to be humble and see everyone as equals but not to the extent of lowering yourself to be stepped on controlled and manipulated by anyone and you refuse to see that point
User avatar #762 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I did not say i was better. And yes, i do have the power to help others but everyone has that power if by doing nothing more than being a caring individual, it's not a power statement in the least.
And i do not let anyone control me. God does not control me but his words are true and i follow them because i want too, because it's right. And please don't misunderstand, i NEVER said there was only good in me, i am fallible just like anyone. No one can control you, you are your own person, and if you would put your pride aside you would see that helping others is not submitting to them, loving them is not letting them step on you. You become invincible once nothing in this word besides other people matter to you, no one can hurt you, no one can steal from you. Suddenly you have control over everything once you realize what matters in life.
#758 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying i know all but what i know, a priori to be true, is what i will follow and you who would allow yourself to be walked on will find that you will fall into becoming a subservient being instead of being your own person
User avatar #759 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I do agree that i attempt to be sub servant and do all i can for others. But i don't see how that makes you less of a person to care about others in the same way you would yourself
#755 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im sorry its not letting me reply to each comment pardon the constant switching, but i wasnt saying god is lying to me but the people lying about speaking to god in the first place and i know what humble means but i also believe you need your pride as to not be walked over when someone is telling you to do or believe something that goes against what knowledge i have accumulated myself
User avatar #757 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should let yourself be walked on. The bible says that if asked for your cloak give your shirt too. To turn the other cheek when hit. To be humble and act as though no one is below you in any way. But you should also protect yourself and follow what you see to be true. I know it can seem hard to believe when you look at the world that so full of lies, but when you look at the bible, it proves itself by the truth it speaks, i have found this to be true in no other religious text. So just keep in mind, yes you should follow your knowledge base, but that very knowledge base could possibly e wrong, you are not all knowing after all.
#752 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i am humble.. i do not boast about being superior, i believe in reason and if i have no reason to suck god's cock i will not take the word of someone who could be lying to me to get me to do their bidding
User avatar #753 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
If God were lying to you then that would be unfair but there is n reason to think he is. He gave you life just to lie to you? That seems unlikely seeing how he would lose nothing at all to fulfill all the things he promises and says anyway. And while your statement is brash, it shows that you indeed do not know what it means to be humble.
#750 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
yes he does let us fall because all he has to do is step down and show that he is real and no one would argue in the slightest but noo he goes to select people and whispers in their ear... you know what fuck it id rather not exist that to suck gods cock to get into heaven
User avatar #751 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's your pride talking. One should be humble.
But that's the point, God does not reveal himself in grandeur because if he were, no one would sin or even so much as sneeze because they would have a great glowing eye above them at all times. In order to truly allow us choice, he can't bully us into things. So he does not allows us to slip, he lets us walk down the path we choose.
#748 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
but we have to stroke his benevolent vanity for him to cater our souls otherwise he lets them fall to an angel that he created to be tortured if thats love i dont want to kno what you think hate is
User avatar #749 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
is that too much to ask? When he created us, lets us exist, is giving back gratitude more taking too much?
And no, he does not let us fall, he gives us the choice to either follow him or follow sin. We do not automatically fall to it without his intervention but we do need his guidance to keep from being tempted.
#746 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if a parent did that to a child they'd be arrested, so if god existed he would be arrested
User avatar #747 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God does nothing to us but give us freedom and then even if the worst should happen and we die he caters our souls in the after life. If that's cruel then i have no idea what you consider loving
#744 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if god was a parent he'd be arrested
User avatar #789 - waldowarcraft (02/20/2013) [-]
I agree. The Christian god would be charged with neglect, abuse, and murder. Lets not forget the planned infanticide where he/ angel of death (on his command) killed every first born Egyptian child because of the current slave-trade situation. This action alone shows how how he doesn't understand parenting. He tore Families apart with the worst thing that could ever happen to them, the loss of a child. What parent would do that to another parent? and why did the babies suffer for what a Pharaoh ordered? Yeah pretty fucked up parenting.
User avatar #745 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
haha, well i have to say i disagree, he puts us here to see what we are made of and then judges us by it without error, that's a pretty good parent
#733 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
no but i dont thank god for putting me here wen i do something good as well so u cant chop off the bad and give god credit only wen it makes him look good
#189 - Well now I'm curious what you're going to spam. 02/18/2013 on yup +1
#185 - For more than one reason. First, he put us here and when we su…  [+] (28 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup 0
#191 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
which proves the point that either 1. the doctor was under the command of god and it wasn't his free will to be a doctor 2. he could have chosen to let us die, which would be a piece of shit move 3. if you can thank him for the doctor's CHOICE to be a doctor then you can blame him for the rapist's CHOICE to rape
User avatar #197 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
That's not what i said at all. You're not thanking God for making the doctor save you. But you can thank God for putting that doctor there and allowing him to save you. But you can't blame God for the rapist because God specifically says not to do that.
#203 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
if i can thank god for putting the doctor there then you can blame him for putting the rapist there... you can't be like "ok you CAN rape that girl but i wanna see if you dont" and then turn to the little girl and say "ok honey this man might rape you, wait like a good little girl and hope for the best"
User avatar #205 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
Yes, you can most certainly thank God for putting every person who has ever been there. But that doesn't mean you can blame him for their actions. I never said you thank God for making the doctor save you, i said you thank him for the doctor. And you can most certainly thank God for putting the man who rapes children here but you can't blame God for his actions.
Surly you have done something bad in your life, would you blame God for putting you here so you could do it?
#736 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
and if all that man wants to do is rape children why is it chemically impossible for him to not do so because if you didnt know some people literally are UNABLE to think like that they can NEVER think of raping children or being violent in general so why should i thank god for setting some people up like that (because they were born that way) but not blame him for the framework of the rapist's mind
User avatar #739 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Is it that they can't help doing it? I have no idea, it would require omnipotence to judge that fairly. But i can say that they will only be punished for what they do wrong, and if it is a medical condition, then surly you would agree that if we all worked for it a cure could be found? So that is why they are there, for us to try and help.
And God created you, you don't think you owe him any gratitude for giving you life? I'm not saying he made you do good things or bad things, but he did give you the hands with which you choose to act.
#740 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i dont want to believe that im gods plaything, that he put us here to see what we'd do to each other thats sadistic and sick, because yea its the rapist choice to rape her but how is she being tested, "lets see you get outta this one" said one indifferent god to his "child"
User avatar #741 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Do you think parents who have a planned child have them to use as a plaything? God put us here not to toy with us but because he loves us. Remember that God loves the rapist just as much as the little girl. The rapist is not a test for the little girl, the rapist was a test for the rapist that he failed.
#742 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
first of all thats a stupid fucking test because all the guy has to do is ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven and the girl is still raped, and second you cant equate god to our parents because our parents are actually active in helping us during life, not just watching and hoping we make good decisions
User avatar #743 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I think God is a good example of a parent, it's true he does not baby us but he does effect us. And yes, if he asks for forgiveness and truly repents, even rape can be forgiven. God will forgive anything but after you accept him there is no going back, you will live the rest of your life as best you can.
#760 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying that at all, if you look back at your statement your trying to say that your better because you do all you can for others which i agree is a very good quality but im saying i refuse to be subservient to people who can take advantage of me.. you are deluded you see only the good in yourself and your god and u reject the rest.. yes its good to be humble and see everyone as equals but not to the extent of lowering yourself to be stepped on controlled and manipulated by anyone and you refuse to see that point
User avatar #762 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I did not say i was better. And yes, i do have the power to help others but everyone has that power if by doing nothing more than being a caring individual, it's not a power statement in the least.
And i do not let anyone control me. God does not control me but his words are true and i follow them because i want too, because it's right. And please don't misunderstand, i NEVER said there was only good in me, i am fallible just like anyone. No one can control you, you are your own person, and if you would put your pride aside you would see that helping others is not submitting to them, loving them is not letting them step on you. You become invincible once nothing in this word besides other people matter to you, no one can hurt you, no one can steal from you. Suddenly you have control over everything once you realize what matters in life.
#758 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying i know all but what i know, a priori to be true, is what i will follow and you who would allow yourself to be walked on will find that you will fall into becoming a subservient being instead of being your own person
User avatar #759 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I do agree that i attempt to be sub servant and do all i can for others. But i don't see how that makes you less of a person to care about others in the same way you would yourself
#755 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im sorry its not letting me reply to each comment pardon the constant switching, but i wasnt saying god is lying to me but the people lying about speaking to god in the first place and i know what humble means but i also believe you need your pride as to not be walked over when someone is telling you to do or believe something that goes against what knowledge i have accumulated myself
User avatar #757 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should let yourself be walked on. The bible says that if asked for your cloak give your shirt too. To turn the other cheek when hit. To be humble and act as though no one is below you in any way. But you should also protect yourself and follow what you see to be true. I know it can seem hard to believe when you look at the world that so full of lies, but when you look at the bible, it proves itself by the truth it speaks, i have found this to be true in no other religious text. So just keep in mind, yes you should follow your knowledge base, but that very knowledge base could possibly e wrong, you are not all knowing after all.
#752 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i am humble.. i do not boast about being superior, i believe in reason and if i have no reason to suck god's cock i will not take the word of someone who could be lying to me to get me to do their bidding
User avatar #753 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
If God were lying to you then that would be unfair but there is n reason to think he is. He gave you life just to lie to you? That seems unlikely seeing how he would lose nothing at all to fulfill all the things he promises and says anyway. And while your statement is brash, it shows that you indeed do not know what it means to be humble.
#750 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
yes he does let us fall because all he has to do is step down and show that he is real and no one would argue in the slightest but noo he goes to select people and whispers in their ear... you know what fuck it id rather not exist that to suck gods cock to get into heaven
User avatar #751 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's your pride talking. One should be humble.
But that's the point, God does not reveal himself in grandeur because if he were, no one would sin or even so much as sneeze because they would have a great glowing eye above them at all times. In order to truly allow us choice, he can't bully us into things. So he does not allows us to slip, he lets us walk down the path we choose.
#748 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
but we have to stroke his benevolent vanity for him to cater our souls otherwise he lets them fall to an angel that he created to be tortured if thats love i dont want to kno what you think hate is
User avatar #749 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
is that too much to ask? When he created us, lets us exist, is giving back gratitude more taking too much?
And no, he does not let us fall, he gives us the choice to either follow him or follow sin. We do not automatically fall to it without his intervention but we do need his guidance to keep from being tempted.
#746 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if a parent did that to a child they'd be arrested, so if god existed he would be arrested
User avatar #747 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God does nothing to us but give us freedom and then even if the worst should happen and we die he caters our souls in the after life. If that's cruel then i have no idea what you consider loving
#744 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if god was a parent he'd be arrested
User avatar #789 - waldowarcraft (02/20/2013) [-]
I agree. The Christian god would be charged with neglect, abuse, and murder. Lets not forget the planned infanticide where he/ angel of death (on his command) killed every first born Egyptian child because of the current slave-trade situation. This action alone shows how how he doesn't understand parenting. He tore Families apart with the worst thing that could ever happen to them, the loss of a child. What parent would do that to another parent? and why did the babies suffer for what a Pharaoh ordered? Yeah pretty fucked up parenting.
User avatar #745 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
haha, well i have to say i disagree, he puts us here to see what we are made of and then judges us by it without error, that's a pretty good parent
#733 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
no but i dont thank god for putting me here wen i do something good as well so u cant chop off the bad and give god credit only wen it makes him look good
#184 - I don't think i said anything about you wasting your life. And… 02/18/2013 on yup +2
#173 - So he shouldn't take away choice, but at the same time take aw…  [+] (30 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup 0
#176 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
so if he gave us free choice why to people thank god when someone chooses to do good like become a doctor or help people in need
User avatar #185 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
For more than one reason. First, he put us here and when we survive a disease then he allowed us to continue living. That's not to say you shouldn't thank the doctor too, but God is the one giving you air to breath and earth to grow food from so the doctor is also there because God made him also. So you can thank God for the doctor, thank him for your life, and thank him for having a reason to value your life haha
But again, you don't even have to thank him, he won't make you. It's a choice to do so.
#191 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
which proves the point that either 1. the doctor was under the command of god and it wasn't his free will to be a doctor 2. he could have chosen to let us die, which would be a piece of shit move 3. if you can thank him for the doctor's CHOICE to be a doctor then you can blame him for the rapist's CHOICE to rape
User avatar #197 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
That's not what i said at all. You're not thanking God for making the doctor save you. But you can thank God for putting that doctor there and allowing him to save you. But you can't blame God for the rapist because God specifically says not to do that.
#203 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
if i can thank god for putting the doctor there then you can blame him for putting the rapist there... you can't be like "ok you CAN rape that girl but i wanna see if you dont" and then turn to the little girl and say "ok honey this man might rape you, wait like a good little girl and hope for the best"
User avatar #205 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
Yes, you can most certainly thank God for putting every person who has ever been there. But that doesn't mean you can blame him for their actions. I never said you thank God for making the doctor save you, i said you thank him for the doctor. And you can most certainly thank God for putting the man who rapes children here but you can't blame God for his actions.
Surly you have done something bad in your life, would you blame God for putting you here so you could do it?
#736 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
and if all that man wants to do is rape children why is it chemically impossible for him to not do so because if you didnt know some people literally are UNABLE to think like that they can NEVER think of raping children or being violent in general so why should i thank god for setting some people up like that (because they were born that way) but not blame him for the framework of the rapist's mind
User avatar #739 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Is it that they can't help doing it? I have no idea, it would require omnipotence to judge that fairly. But i can say that they will only be punished for what they do wrong, and if it is a medical condition, then surly you would agree that if we all worked for it a cure could be found? So that is why they are there, for us to try and help.
And God created you, you don't think you owe him any gratitude for giving you life? I'm not saying he made you do good things or bad things, but he did give you the hands with which you choose to act.
#740 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i dont want to believe that im gods plaything, that he put us here to see what we'd do to each other thats sadistic and sick, because yea its the rapist choice to rape her but how is she being tested, "lets see you get outta this one" said one indifferent god to his "child"
User avatar #741 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Do you think parents who have a planned child have them to use as a plaything? God put us here not to toy with us but because he loves us. Remember that God loves the rapist just as much as the little girl. The rapist is not a test for the little girl, the rapist was a test for the rapist that he failed.
#742 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
first of all thats a stupid fucking test because all the guy has to do is ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven and the girl is still raped, and second you cant equate god to our parents because our parents are actually active in helping us during life, not just watching and hoping we make good decisions
User avatar #743 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I think God is a good example of a parent, it's true he does not baby us but he does effect us. And yes, if he asks for forgiveness and truly repents, even rape can be forgiven. God will forgive anything but after you accept him there is no going back, you will live the rest of your life as best you can.
#760 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying that at all, if you look back at your statement your trying to say that your better because you do all you can for others which i agree is a very good quality but im saying i refuse to be subservient to people who can take advantage of me.. you are deluded you see only the good in yourself and your god and u reject the rest.. yes its good to be humble and see everyone as equals but not to the extent of lowering yourself to be stepped on controlled and manipulated by anyone and you refuse to see that point
User avatar #762 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I did not say i was better. And yes, i do have the power to help others but everyone has that power if by doing nothing more than being a caring individual, it's not a power statement in the least.
And i do not let anyone control me. God does not control me but his words are true and i follow them because i want too, because it's right. And please don't misunderstand, i NEVER said there was only good in me, i am fallible just like anyone. No one can control you, you are your own person, and if you would put your pride aside you would see that helping others is not submitting to them, loving them is not letting them step on you. You become invincible once nothing in this word besides other people matter to you, no one can hurt you, no one can steal from you. Suddenly you have control over everything once you realize what matters in life.
#758 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying i know all but what i know, a priori to be true, is what i will follow and you who would allow yourself to be walked on will find that you will fall into becoming a subservient being instead of being your own person
User avatar #759 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I do agree that i attempt to be sub servant and do all i can for others. But i don't see how that makes you less of a person to care about others in the same way you would yourself
#755 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im sorry its not letting me reply to each comment pardon the constant switching, but i wasnt saying god is lying to me but the people lying about speaking to god in the first place and i know what humble means but i also believe you need your pride as to not be walked over when someone is telling you to do or believe something that goes against what knowledge i have accumulated myself
User avatar #757 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should let yourself be walked on. The bible says that if asked for your cloak give your shirt too. To turn the other cheek when hit. To be humble and act as though no one is below you in any way. But you should also protect yourself and follow what you see to be true. I know it can seem hard to believe when you look at the world that so full of lies, but when you look at the bible, it proves itself by the truth it speaks, i have found this to be true in no other religious text. So just keep in mind, yes you should follow your knowledge base, but that very knowledge base could possibly e wrong, you are not all knowing after all.
#752 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i am humble.. i do not boast about being superior, i believe in reason and if i have no reason to suck god's cock i will not take the word of someone who could be lying to me to get me to do their bidding
User avatar #753 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
If God were lying to you then that would be unfair but there is n reason to think he is. He gave you life just to lie to you? That seems unlikely seeing how he would lose nothing at all to fulfill all the things he promises and says anyway. And while your statement is brash, it shows that you indeed do not know what it means to be humble.
#750 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
yes he does let us fall because all he has to do is step down and show that he is real and no one would argue in the slightest but noo he goes to select people and whispers in their ear... you know what fuck it id rather not exist that to suck gods cock to get into heaven
User avatar #751 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's your pride talking. One should be humble.
But that's the point, God does not reveal himself in grandeur because if he were, no one would sin or even so much as sneeze because they would have a great glowing eye above them at all times. In order to truly allow us choice, he can't bully us into things. So he does not allows us to slip, he lets us walk down the path we choose.
#748 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
but we have to stroke his benevolent vanity for him to cater our souls otherwise he lets them fall to an angel that he created to be tortured if thats love i dont want to kno what you think hate is
User avatar #749 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
is that too much to ask? When he created us, lets us exist, is giving back gratitude more taking too much?
And no, he does not let us fall, he gives us the choice to either follow him or follow sin. We do not automatically fall to it without his intervention but we do need his guidance to keep from being tempted.
#746 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if a parent did that to a child they'd be arrested, so if god existed he would be arrested
User avatar #747 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God does nothing to us but give us freedom and then even if the worst should happen and we die he caters our souls in the after life. If that's cruel then i have no idea what you consider loving
#744 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if god was a parent he'd be arrested
User avatar #789 - waldowarcraft (02/20/2013) [-]
I agree. The Christian god would be charged with neglect, abuse, and murder. Lets not forget the planned infanticide where he/ angel of death (on his command) killed every first born Egyptian child because of the current slave-trade situation. This action alone shows how how he doesn't understand parenting. He tore Families apart with the worst thing that could ever happen to them, the loss of a child. What parent would do that to another parent? and why did the babies suffer for what a Pharaoh ordered? Yeah pretty fucked up parenting.
User avatar #745 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
haha, well i have to say i disagree, he puts us here to see what we are made of and then judges us by it without error, that's a pretty good parent
#733 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
no but i dont thank god for putting me here wen i do something good as well so u cant chop off the bad and give god credit only wen it makes him look good
#170 - He gave us this whole world to live in and freedom to do anyth… 02/18/2013 on yup +1
#161 - Is there something wrong with what i'm posting? Morally i mean? 02/18/2013 on yup +1
#159 - It's not a battle royal where he wants us to fight to see who … 02/18/2013 on yup 0
#157 - That good he doesn't do would require him to take away our cho…  [+] (32 new replies) 02/18/2013 on yup +2
#169 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
bro, in no way shape or form did i say he should take away choice, just take away the shit that would make someone want to rape and torture little girls, sending that person to hell does not change the fact that people get raped and if its "gods will" for his "greater plan" he can go fuck himself and you can go fuck yourself because i want absolutely no part of that
User avatar #173 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
So he shouldn't take away choice, but at the same time take away the rapists choice to rape? That makes no sense.
You can't blame him for giving us freedom, even when people use that freedom poorly.
#176 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
so if he gave us free choice why to people thank god when someone chooses to do good like become a doctor or help people in need
User avatar #185 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
For more than one reason. First, he put us here and when we survive a disease then he allowed us to continue living. That's not to say you shouldn't thank the doctor too, but God is the one giving you air to breath and earth to grow food from so the doctor is also there because God made him also. So you can thank God for the doctor, thank him for your life, and thank him for having a reason to value your life haha
But again, you don't even have to thank him, he won't make you. It's a choice to do so.
#191 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
which proves the point that either 1. the doctor was under the command of god and it wasn't his free will to be a doctor 2. he could have chosen to let us die, which would be a piece of shit move 3. if you can thank him for the doctor's CHOICE to be a doctor then you can blame him for the rapist's CHOICE to rape
User avatar #197 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
That's not what i said at all. You're not thanking God for making the doctor save you. But you can thank God for putting that doctor there and allowing him to save you. But you can't blame God for the rapist because God specifically says not to do that.
#203 - yourmomsfacehere (02/18/2013) [-]
if i can thank god for putting the doctor there then you can blame him for putting the rapist there... you can't be like "ok you CAN rape that girl but i wanna see if you dont" and then turn to the little girl and say "ok honey this man might rape you, wait like a good little girl and hope for the best"
User avatar #205 - Vandeekree (02/18/2013) [-]
Yes, you can most certainly thank God for putting every person who has ever been there. But that doesn't mean you can blame him for their actions. I never said you thank God for making the doctor save you, i said you thank him for the doctor. And you can most certainly thank God for putting the man who rapes children here but you can't blame God for his actions.
Surly you have done something bad in your life, would you blame God for putting you here so you could do it?
#736 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
and if all that man wants to do is rape children why is it chemically impossible for him to not do so because if you didnt know some people literally are UNABLE to think like that they can NEVER think of raping children or being violent in general so why should i thank god for setting some people up like that (because they were born that way) but not blame him for the framework of the rapist's mind
User avatar #739 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Is it that they can't help doing it? I have no idea, it would require omnipotence to judge that fairly. But i can say that they will only be punished for what they do wrong, and if it is a medical condition, then surly you would agree that if we all worked for it a cure could be found? So that is why they are there, for us to try and help.
And God created you, you don't think you owe him any gratitude for giving you life? I'm not saying he made you do good things or bad things, but he did give you the hands with which you choose to act.
#740 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i dont want to believe that im gods plaything, that he put us here to see what we'd do to each other thats sadistic and sick, because yea its the rapist choice to rape her but how is she being tested, "lets see you get outta this one" said one indifferent god to his "child"
User avatar #741 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
Do you think parents who have a planned child have them to use as a plaything? God put us here not to toy with us but because he loves us. Remember that God loves the rapist just as much as the little girl. The rapist is not a test for the little girl, the rapist was a test for the rapist that he failed.
#742 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
first of all thats a stupid fucking test because all the guy has to do is ask for forgiveness and he will be forgiven and the girl is still raped, and second you cant equate god to our parents because our parents are actually active in helping us during life, not just watching and hoping we make good decisions
User avatar #743 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I think God is a good example of a parent, it's true he does not baby us but he does effect us. And yes, if he asks for forgiveness and truly repents, even rape can be forgiven. God will forgive anything but after you accept him there is no going back, you will live the rest of your life as best you can.
#760 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying that at all, if you look back at your statement your trying to say that your better because you do all you can for others which i agree is a very good quality but im saying i refuse to be subservient to people who can take advantage of me.. you are deluded you see only the good in yourself and your god and u reject the rest.. yes its good to be humble and see everyone as equals but not to the extent of lowering yourself to be stepped on controlled and manipulated by anyone and you refuse to see that point
User avatar #762 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I did not say i was better. And yes, i do have the power to help others but everyone has that power if by doing nothing more than being a caring individual, it's not a power statement in the least.
And i do not let anyone control me. God does not control me but his words are true and i follow them because i want too, because it's right. And please don't misunderstand, i NEVER said there was only good in me, i am fallible just like anyone. No one can control you, you are your own person, and if you would put your pride aside you would see that helping others is not submitting to them, loving them is not letting them step on you. You become invincible once nothing in this word besides other people matter to you, no one can hurt you, no one can steal from you. Suddenly you have control over everything once you realize what matters in life.
#758 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im not saying i know all but what i know, a priori to be true, is what i will follow and you who would allow yourself to be walked on will find that you will fall into becoming a subservient being instead of being your own person
User avatar #759 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
I do agree that i attempt to be sub servant and do all i can for others. But i don't see how that makes you less of a person to care about others in the same way you would yourself
#755 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
im sorry its not letting me reply to each comment pardon the constant switching, but i wasnt saying god is lying to me but the people lying about speaking to god in the first place and i know what humble means but i also believe you need your pride as to not be walked over when someone is telling you to do or believe something that goes against what knowledge i have accumulated myself
User avatar #757 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
You should let yourself be walked on. The bible says that if asked for your cloak give your shirt too. To turn the other cheek when hit. To be humble and act as though no one is below you in any way. But you should also protect yourself and follow what you see to be true. I know it can seem hard to believe when you look at the world that so full of lies, but when you look at the bible, it proves itself by the truth it speaks, i have found this to be true in no other religious text. So just keep in mind, yes you should follow your knowledge base, but that very knowledge base could possibly e wrong, you are not all knowing after all.
#752 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
i am humble.. i do not boast about being superior, i believe in reason and if i have no reason to suck god's cock i will not take the word of someone who could be lying to me to get me to do their bidding
User avatar #753 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
If God were lying to you then that would be unfair but there is n reason to think he is. He gave you life just to lie to you? That seems unlikely seeing how he would lose nothing at all to fulfill all the things he promises and says anyway. And while your statement is brash, it shows that you indeed do not know what it means to be humble.
#750 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
yes he does let us fall because all he has to do is step down and show that he is real and no one would argue in the slightest but noo he goes to select people and whispers in their ear... you know what fuck it id rather not exist that to suck gods cock to get into heaven
User avatar #751 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
That's your pride talking. One should be humble.
But that's the point, God does not reveal himself in grandeur because if he were, no one would sin or even so much as sneeze because they would have a great glowing eye above them at all times. In order to truly allow us choice, he can't bully us into things. So he does not allows us to slip, he lets us walk down the path we choose.
#748 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
but we have to stroke his benevolent vanity for him to cater our souls otherwise he lets them fall to an angel that he created to be tortured if thats love i dont want to kno what you think hate is
User avatar #749 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
is that too much to ask? When he created us, lets us exist, is giving back gratitude more taking too much?
And no, he does not let us fall, he gives us the choice to either follow him or follow sin. We do not automatically fall to it without his intervention but we do need his guidance to keep from being tempted.
#746 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if a parent did that to a child they'd be arrested, so if god existed he would be arrested
User avatar #747 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
God does nothing to us but give us freedom and then even if the worst should happen and we die he caters our souls in the after life. If that's cruel then i have no idea what you consider loving
#744 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
if god was a parent he'd be arrested
User avatar #789 - waldowarcraft (02/20/2013) [-]
I agree. The Christian god would be charged with neglect, abuse, and murder. Lets not forget the planned infanticide where he/ angel of death (on his command) killed every first born Egyptian child because of the current slave-trade situation. This action alone shows how how he doesn't understand parenting. He tore Families apart with the worst thing that could ever happen to them, the loss of a child. What parent would do that to another parent? and why did the babies suffer for what a Pharaoh ordered? Yeah pretty fucked up parenting.
User avatar #745 - Vandeekree (02/19/2013) [-]
haha, well i have to say i disagree, he puts us here to see what we are made of and then judges us by it without error, that's a pretty good parent
#733 - yourmomsfacehere (02/19/2013) [-]
no but i dont thank god for putting me here wen i do something good as well so u cant chop off the bad and give god credit only wen it makes him look good
#149 - It's been working like it's supposed to. We are given a choice… 02/18/2013 on yup 0

items

Total unique items point value: 550 / Total items point value: 1000
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
User avatar #19 - kiratheunholy ONLINE (05/09/2013) [-]
Do you not have morals? Like seriously do you not have any? You claim that you only do as the bible instructs every time someone asks you about morals, but do you not know right from wrong without religion?

If so perhaps you should learn it. I'm an agnostic and I still know what's right from wrong without a higher entity instructing me on it. If the only thing keeping you from being a moral-less prick is religion then you are probably a psychopath.
User avatar #16 - justinsane (04/04/2013) [-]
Lets just put this here, shall we? Fewer purple lines
User avatar #18 to #16 - justinsane (04/04/2013) [-]
Now I strongly disagree that more studies need to be done in order to come to a consensus. All of the leading bodies which have done research on the subject have found no reason to indicate that gays are naturally more likely through their expression of sexuality to have any types of adverse effects. The only people I have heard calling for more research are the same people claiming that climate change is not a thing or that natural selection doesnt happen. There is a consensus in the scientific community and it is people who are not a part of the community who claim that they cant make conclusions (because they dont like the ones made)
User avatar #17 to #16 - Vandeekree (04/04/2013) [-]
Tis a good idea
#14 - highclassbean (02/11/2013) [-]
thank you for being so informative and calm in that religious conversation with thebritish.guy. really gave a positive look on the religious community.
User avatar #15 to #14 - Vandeekree (02/11/2013) [-]
Why thank you. Simply following the bible though. It says to approach the nonbeliever with respect and politeness.
#10 - Ken M (09/07/2012) [-]
******* idiot.
#9 - Vandeekree (09/01/2012) [-]
**Vandeekree rolled a random image posted in comment #40 at Christian dating **
#5 - Vandeekree (09/14/2011) [-]
**Vandeekree rolled a random image**
User avatar #4 - Vandeekree (07/27/2011) [-]
**Vandeekree rolls 1**
User avatar #3 - Vandeekree (08/08/2010) [-]
**Vandeekree rolls 4**
#1 - bearycool **User deleted account** (07/14/2010) [-]
*pats head* don't worry my son I read your comment 80
User avatar #2 to #1 - Vandeekree (07/14/2010) [-]
Thank you, now I feel loved. i guess that's what I get for posting in the morning when the average funnyjunker is asleep.
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