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Vandeekree    

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Vandeekree Avatar Level 235 Comments: Ambassador Of Lulz
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Date Signed Up:2/21/2010
Last Login:8/30/2014
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latest user's comments

#132 - I never said the method of criticism is effective. In fact I w…  [+] (6 new replies) 05/06/2013 on More from mr CK 0
#139 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
There are some very good reasons that being black is not a good thing in our society: even after accounting for other factors, lower incomes, higher conviction rates, less access to decent education, higher unemployment, etc are all prime examples of this. Trust me, well educated, highly successful black people are just as, if not more offended by the use of the word "nigger" and what it represents (and it represents a whole lot), as they are the ones who have experienced it at all levels. They are aware of how simply being born black can be a detriment in our society, and the use of the word nigger as an insult is testament to that inequality, whether you're successful or not.

On to B. All words absolutely have power, even if they are not true. Would I be offended on a personal level by your attack? No, but as hurtful/hateful speech was your intent, I'd know that you weren't a person who is going to push the discussion anywhere positive. Overall though, I would be slightly offended, as it was a personal attack, regardless of the validity of the statement. If you only interpret language literally, you're missing most of the action.
User avatar #142 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
Whether or not being black is good or bad has nothing to do with our discussion. Something being good or bad in reality has nothing to do with whether or not a person will be offended by it, it all hinges on if they THINK they are being told something they are or are doing is wrong.

But it still stands that you are choosing to be offended. i have no idea what race you are but lets say I call you a chink and you are white. Would that offend you even if i said it out of pure hate? It shouldn't. You should be able to think for yourself that my insult makes no sense and there is no truth to it. You choose to let it effect you. So there has to be truth behind and insult in order for it to have power over you you don't give it. Now if you were white and i called you white trash then you have no defense against it sense the insult requires you to stop and think if you actually do qualify as white trash. Sense you are white then there is a chance that you are white trash, it's possible. However if you are white then it is literally impossible for you to be a "chink" whatever that means because one of the perquisites is that you are asian.

If i call you a chink then you only have to deal with my hate, that you choose to get offended at, but when i call you white trash you have to deal with both my hate and a possible truth. In that way, words do not always have power, only words that carry the semblance of truth.
#146 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
Being black being bad (sounds weird, but whatever) is the entire reason the word "nigger" has power (same is true with every other offensive term). There is a truth to the statement, and that's what causes the sting, it's a reminder that there is still a stigma about your race or background (lower-class white, myself) and inequality between you and the rest of the world. It's not that what you are is wrong, it's that the world sees what you are as wrong, and you have experienced actual pain as a result of that perception. It doesn't matter whether or not it's justified, if the world sees me as white trash, that's all I'll ever amount to. It's a reminder of all the bullshit you've already gone through, most of it painful. It's not the word itself, it's the memories the word brings up, and those words are meant to bring up those memories. If you don't have the memories to begin with you can't fully understand why it's offensive to bring them up. You can't choose not bring those memories up, because that's an integral part to what the word means. Pick any word and when you say it, you'll think about more than just it's dictionary definition, you'll think about all your experiences with that word. It's not possible to just not get offended when offensive speech is used.

But even if you used an incorrect insult, I'd still be offended, because I'm an emotionally developed human being. As a human being, I want to be liked, it's hard-wired into our brains. When you express dislike for me, thoughts are processed, chemicals are released, and I feel like shit. It's a basic part of human emotions, if you aren't upset when people express discontent towards you, something is severely wrong with you. Furthermore, I'm offended for all the people you used as an insult. Empathy is a pretty basic part of being a human, if you can't see why you shouldn't throw a few billion people under the bus, then your emotional development is severely stunted.
User avatar #147 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
But when it comes to being offended it doesn't matter what others think. It doesn't matter if every single person on Earth thinks you are white trash. It only matters what you think, what you let effect you. Nothing on the outside can get to you unless you internalize it. You choose to care what those people think of you, there is nothing inherent about it. If you believe yourself to be valuable then no amount of other people telling you otherwise can change it. But if you see reason to think they are right then you begin to believe it, you begin to see there might be truth to what they say and that's what causes offence.

That is what makes you able to simply control if you are offended or not. Words have no power besides the power you give them. Being offended comes from insecurity in something. There is a reason insults are often aimed at short comings. If you want to get to someone you insult their social standing or their physical flaws, you have to aim for the things they themselves believe are negative things. You'll never offend someone by hatefully saying they are handsome or angrily telling them they have a high I.Q.

So yes, you choose to be offended by letting yourself accept short comings and allowing those words to devalue you in your own mind.
#149 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
I'm going to be offended regardless, I can choose not to get upset about it or not to hold a grudge, but being offended is a gut-reaction, it's not a rational processed thought, and it never will be completely. Regardless, no matter how hardened you are, it's still going to hurt. I mean, if I hit Mayweather in the face, it's still gonna hurt him, no matter how much he's adapted to it. It won't hurt nearly as bad as when he returns the favor, but part of being human is feeling pain, whether emotional of physical, and you can't just think pain away, you can take your mind off it, but it'll still be there.

Also, there are ways of insulting everything, e.g. Pretty-boy and nerd for handsome and intelligent, respectively.
User avatar #150 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
But that's not what I'm talking about. I don't mean you harden yourself to handle the blow of an insult, I mean you can simply convince yourself that you are not in the wrong and thus no insult can cause such a gut reaction. It's sort of like instead of taking a punch and being able to endure the pain, you simply avoid the blow and never get hit at all.

What I mean is, being called "Pretty boy" has the implication that you are effeminate. But if that guy is a handsome navy seal who considers himself to be more above averagely masculine then that insult would make him smirk. And if the smart guy gets called a nerd in the most negative of insults but he is one of those guys who labels himself as a nerd and likes that about himself, then the insult becomes a complement.

So yes, you can take the pain away by simply not letting yourself be bothered by such things. All you have to do is purge yourself of those insecurities and be happy with yourself and you can never be offended.
#106 - I see your point but I think you miss his. The discussion is i…  [+] (8 new replies) 05/06/2013 on More from mr CK +1
#127 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
Well, if the fat person just sees the person as an asshole, they're not going to see a reason, to change because that dude's an asshole, he doesn't matter, but if he's told "Hey, you might want to watch your weight for reasons a,b,c" they'll be much more inclined to get that internal discussion moving in a positive direction.

Regardless, I don't think internal discussion was at all what he meant. His go-example is the use of the word "nigger". First off, tell me what the nigger (here meaning any black person, as that is to whom it is intended to be offensive) did wrong and what they can do to fix it. CK's answer is just to not be offended, because words have no power. That's absolute bullshit; not only is the vast majority of human success built on the power of language, but CK, himself, has established an entire career on his ability to use words. Do you see the hypocrisy there?

Words are tools. Offensive language can occasionally be a very useful tool, but it's meant for very specific occasions. It's a pneumatic hammer, loud, powerful, etc. It's useful, but it should not be your primary tool. It's something you use to make up for your own ability to hammer a point through.
User avatar #132 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
I never said the method of criticism is effective. In fact I would say it's not the person they are insulting's well being they have in mind when saying such things.

When you call a black person a nigger then you are implying that what they are doing wrong is simply being black, you are saying being black is a bad thing, and because of the social norms of our society, black people who get offended over it do so because they have doubts that being black might somehow actually be a bad thing. This works like my fat person example, if you call a black man in a suit and tie who is the CEO of a major corporation a nigger he will probably look at you funny and think you are a sad racist. But if you call a poor drunk man a nigger he will get offended because you are saying there is something bad about his skin color and he sees that it might just be true and so get upset.

As for the second part, i would agree with him, simply don't get offended. You see, not all words have power, only true words have power. or more specifically, words that you can make someone think are true. If I started calling you a bunch of insults like chink and nigger and white trash and every racial slur, then would the racial slurs that refer to the races you aren't have any effect on you? Of course not(I hope) because there is no truth in your mind that, even if being other races was a bad thing, you are not that race, and so I can't be saying anything about you is bad. People only get offended at things that are to some degree, true.
#139 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
There are some very good reasons that being black is not a good thing in our society: even after accounting for other factors, lower incomes, higher conviction rates, less access to decent education, higher unemployment, etc are all prime examples of this. Trust me, well educated, highly successful black people are just as, if not more offended by the use of the word "nigger" and what it represents (and it represents a whole lot), as they are the ones who have experienced it at all levels. They are aware of how simply being born black can be a detriment in our society, and the use of the word nigger as an insult is testament to that inequality, whether you're successful or not.

On to B. All words absolutely have power, even if they are not true. Would I be offended on a personal level by your attack? No, but as hurtful/hateful speech was your intent, I'd know that you weren't a person who is going to push the discussion anywhere positive. Overall though, I would be slightly offended, as it was a personal attack, regardless of the validity of the statement. If you only interpret language literally, you're missing most of the action.
User avatar #142 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
Whether or not being black is good or bad has nothing to do with our discussion. Something being good or bad in reality has nothing to do with whether or not a person will be offended by it, it all hinges on if they THINK they are being told something they are or are doing is wrong.

But it still stands that you are choosing to be offended. i have no idea what race you are but lets say I call you a chink and you are white. Would that offend you even if i said it out of pure hate? It shouldn't. You should be able to think for yourself that my insult makes no sense and there is no truth to it. You choose to let it effect you. So there has to be truth behind and insult in order for it to have power over you you don't give it. Now if you were white and i called you white trash then you have no defense against it sense the insult requires you to stop and think if you actually do qualify as white trash. Sense you are white then there is a chance that you are white trash, it's possible. However if you are white then it is literally impossible for you to be a "chink" whatever that means because one of the perquisites is that you are asian.

If i call you a chink then you only have to deal with my hate, that you choose to get offended at, but when i call you white trash you have to deal with both my hate and a possible truth. In that way, words do not always have power, only words that carry the semblance of truth.
#146 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
Being black being bad (sounds weird, but whatever) is the entire reason the word "nigger" has power (same is true with every other offensive term). There is a truth to the statement, and that's what causes the sting, it's a reminder that there is still a stigma about your race or background (lower-class white, myself) and inequality between you and the rest of the world. It's not that what you are is wrong, it's that the world sees what you are as wrong, and you have experienced actual pain as a result of that perception. It doesn't matter whether or not it's justified, if the world sees me as white trash, that's all I'll ever amount to. It's a reminder of all the bullshit you've already gone through, most of it painful. It's not the word itself, it's the memories the word brings up, and those words are meant to bring up those memories. If you don't have the memories to begin with you can't fully understand why it's offensive to bring them up. You can't choose not bring those memories up, because that's an integral part to what the word means. Pick any word and when you say it, you'll think about more than just it's dictionary definition, you'll think about all your experiences with that word. It's not possible to just not get offended when offensive speech is used.

But even if you used an incorrect insult, I'd still be offended, because I'm an emotionally developed human being. As a human being, I want to be liked, it's hard-wired into our brains. When you express dislike for me, thoughts are processed, chemicals are released, and I feel like shit. It's a basic part of human emotions, if you aren't upset when people express discontent towards you, something is severely wrong with you. Furthermore, I'm offended for all the people you used as an insult. Empathy is a pretty basic part of being a human, if you can't see why you shouldn't throw a few billion people under the bus, then your emotional development is severely stunted.
User avatar #147 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
But when it comes to being offended it doesn't matter what others think. It doesn't matter if every single person on Earth thinks you are white trash. It only matters what you think, what you let effect you. Nothing on the outside can get to you unless you internalize it. You choose to care what those people think of you, there is nothing inherent about it. If you believe yourself to be valuable then no amount of other people telling you otherwise can change it. But if you see reason to think they are right then you begin to believe it, you begin to see there might be truth to what they say and that's what causes offence.

That is what makes you able to simply control if you are offended or not. Words have no power besides the power you give them. Being offended comes from insecurity in something. There is a reason insults are often aimed at short comings. If you want to get to someone you insult their social standing or their physical flaws, you have to aim for the things they themselves believe are negative things. You'll never offend someone by hatefully saying they are handsome or angrily telling them they have a high I.Q.

So yes, you choose to be offended by letting yourself accept short comings and allowing those words to devalue you in your own mind.
#149 - kingpongthedon (05/06/2013) [-]
I'm going to be offended regardless, I can choose not to get upset about it or not to hold a grudge, but being offended is a gut-reaction, it's not a rational processed thought, and it never will be completely. Regardless, no matter how hardened you are, it's still going to hurt. I mean, if I hit Mayweather in the face, it's still gonna hurt him, no matter how much he's adapted to it. It won't hurt nearly as bad as when he returns the favor, but part of being human is feeling pain, whether emotional of physical, and you can't just think pain away, you can take your mind off it, but it'll still be there.

Also, there are ways of insulting everything, e.g. Pretty-boy and nerd for handsome and intelligent, respectively.
User avatar #150 - Vandeekree (05/06/2013) [-]
But that's not what I'm talking about. I don't mean you harden yourself to handle the blow of an insult, I mean you can simply convince yourself that you are not in the wrong and thus no insult can cause such a gut reaction. It's sort of like instead of taking a punch and being able to endure the pain, you simply avoid the blow and never get hit at all.

What I mean is, being called "Pretty boy" has the implication that you are effeminate. But if that guy is a handsome navy seal who considers himself to be more above averagely masculine then that insult would make him smirk. And if the smart guy gets called a nerd in the most negative of insults but he is one of those guys who labels himself as a nerd and likes that about himself, then the insult becomes a complement.

So yes, you can take the pain away by simply not letting yourself be bothered by such things. All you have to do is purge yourself of those insecurities and be happy with yourself and you can never be offended.
#33 - When Christianity was introduced to other cultures it was comm… 05/04/2013 on Tiyanak 0
#8 - **************** .jpg 05/04/2013 on Why? 0
#2 - Great, now that you've found it can you tell me how to get, ho… 04/29/2013 on Finally found it 0
#723 - I'm a tad surprised you'd say i don't know much about moral ph… 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#721 - (replying up here because we have run out of room and it won't…  [+] (2 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#722 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #723 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I'm a tad surprised you'd say i don't know much about moral philosophy and such as it's one of my areas of study. I'm clearly not on my game, it's been an all nighter debating with you in between doing homework so apparently i'm not making points very well.

but you must understand that while all of that is great. it still leaves any definition of what is best for society. Yes there can be most efficient, but that doesn't deal with the morality. There's simply nothing backing it up when you say something is wrong. There's nothing to make it wrong besides that you have decided that its effect is a bad one. Others could disagree with you and their opinions would carry just as much weight.

As for the articles i'm pretty sure i've read at least three of those already but it couldn't hurt to read them again.

Your study, however, is less than convincing. I've seen a considerably larger number of studies done directly on gay populations while this only indirectly studies the effects of marriage.
#717 - But you understand there is no logic behind morality without G…  [+] (1 new reply) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#715 - I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't?…  [+] (3 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#713 - Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wr…  [+] (5 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#7 - yes but cheif is what? 8 feet tall? The space marine power arm…  [+] (3 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Background 0
User avatar #8 - Protagonistism (04/22/2013) [-]
hmm not that tall it's like 9-11 feet
#9 - blackscottsman (04/22/2013) [-]
User avatar #10 - Protagonistism (04/22/2013) [-]
Stop spreading cancer
#701 - Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what…  [+] (8 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#700 - Because the old testament is still there to teach lessaons but… 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#689 - But the fact remains that comparable groups such a racial or g…  [+] (10 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#697 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #701 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what you personally think to be wrong. -_-

That question doesn't make sense. Nothing is wrong if there is no reason for it to be wrong.
In that way i hope you can see that everything you just said. All you claimed logic and reason is arbitrary. The law is based on what people decide they think is wrong, and when those opinions contradict then it's simply the most powerful people with those opinions that get it put into law. It's simply arbitrary.
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#686 - And it is still all fully valid, just fulfilled. If you study …  [+] (2 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
User avatar #688 - RandomAnonGuy (04/22/2013) [-]
I fail to understand how fulfilling something makes it functionally irrelevant to us, yet not invalid. I have read the bible cover to cover, but not "studied" it, and the impression I got was that we were meant to strive to fulfil the law as Jesus did, but being human we'd always fall short.
Also, where in the bible is it said that Jesus' death is what releases us from the law? Yeah, he died for our sins, but we should still try not to.
User avatar #700 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Because the old testament is still there to teach lessaons but most importantly i is there to give context to the new testament. It shows where things came from, why Jesus didn't jsut suddenly apear and start dishing out rightiousness. It suplements the new testament and every law is there to help guide. Some laws were only for the Hebrew people, while others are more broad laws for all men and women to follow. I honestly don't know if i have enough space to go into the detail it deserves but i recomend you study up on it, even googling it a bit will probably lead to prewritten articles that explain it better than i can.

I beleive the best verse the illustrate that he releases us is the verse just before the one you quoted. Matthew 5: 17 where he says he will not abolish the law but fulfill it. As foretold in Jeremaih 30:31-34 there would be a new covenant . A second covenant . Colossians 2:14 is where it is said the law is put on the cross. Ephesians 2:15 is where it is put to death on the cross. So the law is not invalid, it's still complete, merely changed so that in order to get into heaven the law is no longer what is reuired, but faith and forgivness will get you into heaven. Jesus fulfills the law for us because we will fall short.
#681 - I see, well while i would have to disagree that homosexuality …  [+] (12 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#685 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #689 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But the fact remains that comparable groups such a racial or gender related groups do not experience these mental conditions when being shunned. And std rates are many times higher in people who call themselves gay than in normal populations.

And I would say opinion far out weights "evidence" when it comes to law making.

And so you say they are better functioning, so then morality is based on what gets humans to function most efficniontly? Or is it that morality is whatever results in the most happyness for a human? If that's the case then how is putting people in jail good for happyness? How is the death penatly good for hapyness? It seems to me that that is random, arbitrary and base doff of nothing. There is nothing wrong with any action without God there to be the reason why it's wrong. Otherwise you are simply looking for what help society work most efficiently, and if we wanted we could make a much more efficient society although many freedoms would suffer for it.

#697 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #701 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what you personally think to be wrong. -_-

That question doesn't make sense. Nothing is wrong if there is no reason for it to be wrong.
In that way i hope you can see that everything you just said. All you claimed logic and reason is arbitrary. The law is based on what people decide they think is wrong, and when those opinions contradict then it's simply the most powerful people with those opinions that get it put into law. It's simply arbitrary.
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#672 - I didn't say "I don't like" i said i think it's mora…  [+] (14 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#677 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #681 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see, well while i would have to disagree that homosexuality isn't harmful simply based on studies done and mental conditions and std rates in those who have gay sex being through the roof compared to normal people, there is also the fact that reason and logic do not dictate the current American government's actions and laws. In fact the driving factor behind it is simply that it follows the whims of the majority and those in power.

But let me ask, what makes something morally wrong? It seems you define that if an action hurts someone else, then it is wrong. And that can work as a definition for what is wrong. But I have to ask what makes it wrong? Why is hurting someone else wrong?
#685 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #689 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But the fact remains that comparable groups such a racial or gender related groups do not experience these mental conditions when being shunned. And std rates are many times higher in people who call themselves gay than in normal populations.

And I would say opinion far out weights "evidence" when it comes to law making.

And so you say they are better functioning, so then morality is based on what gets humans to function most efficniontly? Or is it that morality is whatever results in the most happyness for a human? If that's the case then how is putting people in jail good for happyness? How is the death penatly good for hapyness? It seems to me that that is random, arbitrary and base doff of nothing. There is nothing wrong with any action without God there to be the reason why it's wrong. Otherwise you are simply looking for what help society work most efficiently, and if we wanted we could make a much more efficient society although many freedoms would suffer for it.

#697 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #701 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what you personally think to be wrong. -_-

That question doesn't make sense. Nothing is wrong if there is no reason for it to be wrong.
In that way i hope you can see that everything you just said. All you claimed logic and reason is arbitrary. The law is based on what people decide they think is wrong, and when those opinions contradict then it's simply the most powerful people with those opinions that get it put into law. It's simply arbitrary.
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#4 - Why is Raynor so short? I thought power armor would put him ev…  [+] (5 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Background 0
User avatar #6 - Protagonistism (04/22/2013) [-]
Master chief and Raynor would be the same height considering chiefs Augmentations and genetic modifications.
User avatar #7 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
yes but cheif is what? 8 feet tall? The space marine power armor is pretty massive. i would think 12 feet or more looking at the cut scenes.
User avatar #8 - Protagonistism (04/22/2013) [-]
hmm not that tall it's like 9-11 feet
#9 - blackscottsman (04/22/2013) [-]
User avatar #10 - Protagonistism (04/22/2013) [-]
Stop spreading cancer
#440 - I've actually talked about this very verse recently. You see, … 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#426 - I agree, and that quote is spot on. But what Jesus is saying i… 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#420 - While our government is supposed to be secular, it's also true…  [+] (21 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#663 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #721 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
(replying up here because we have run out of room and it won't let me reply down there)

But name calling aside, the moral logic of the bible is sound. God, the all seeing and knowing being gave us our moral code because that moral code is designed for us just as we are designed for it.

But your morality, which I am guessing comes from your "logic" really comes from no where. There is nothing behind it because at it's core, there is no reason that hurting someone is bad, it's simply a thing. An action. Nothing makes it wrong. You can try to define it. Move things around. Murder is ok in self defense. Sex is ok outside of marriage if it's consensual. Stealing is alright so long as it won't be missed.
But all of that is based on your opinion. Based on how you feel. It's arbitrary and can change from person to person. I'm worried that you can't see the fact that the method for making laws you describe is to simply pull them from thin air based on a logic that you literally make up for yourself.


And of course you haven't heard a reason you accept. You don't follow my moral code. i have yet to hear any reason it should be legally supported.
#722 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #723 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I'm a tad surprised you'd say i don't know much about moral philosophy and such as it's one of my areas of study. I'm clearly not on my game, it's been an all nighter debating with you in between doing homework so apparently i'm not making points very well.

but you must understand that while all of that is great. it still leaves any definition of what is best for society. Yes there can be most efficient, but that doesn't deal with the morality. There's simply nothing backing it up when you say something is wrong. There's nothing to make it wrong besides that you have decided that its effect is a bad one. Others could disagree with you and their opinions would carry just as much weight.

As for the articles i'm pretty sure i've read at least three of those already but it couldn't hurt to read them again.

Your study, however, is less than convincing. I've seen a considerably larger number of studies done directly on gay populations while this only indirectly studies the effects of marriage.
User avatar #672 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I didn't say "I don't like" i said i think it's morally wrong. By calling me that name for thinking this way you call yourself the same for thinking murder should be outlawed simply because you think it's morally wrong.
#677 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #681 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see, well while i would have to disagree that homosexuality isn't harmful simply based on studies done and mental conditions and std rates in those who have gay sex being through the roof compared to normal people, there is also the fact that reason and logic do not dictate the current American government's actions and laws. In fact the driving factor behind it is simply that it follows the whims of the majority and those in power.

But let me ask, what makes something morally wrong? It seems you define that if an action hurts someone else, then it is wrong. And that can work as a definition for what is wrong. But I have to ask what makes it wrong? Why is hurting someone else wrong?
#685 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #689 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But the fact remains that comparable groups such a racial or gender related groups do not experience these mental conditions when being shunned. And std rates are many times higher in people who call themselves gay than in normal populations.

And I would say opinion far out weights "evidence" when it comes to law making.

And so you say they are better functioning, so then morality is based on what gets humans to function most efficniontly? Or is it that morality is whatever results in the most happyness for a human? If that's the case then how is putting people in jail good for happyness? How is the death penatly good for hapyness? It seems to me that that is random, arbitrary and base doff of nothing. There is nothing wrong with any action without God there to be the reason why it's wrong. Otherwise you are simply looking for what help society work most efficiently, and if we wanted we could make a much more efficient society although many freedoms would suffer for it.

#697 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #701 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what you personally think to be wrong. -_-

That question doesn't make sense. Nothing is wrong if there is no reason for it to be wrong.
In that way i hope you can see that everything you just said. All you claimed logic and reason is arbitrary. The law is based on what people decide they think is wrong, and when those opinions contradict then it's simply the most powerful people with those opinions that get it put into law. It's simply arbitrary.
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#431 - tontosrevenge (04/22/2013) [-]
That being said, while i don't want anyone else to be denied their religious beliefs, I also want the government to** not support anything i know to be morally wrong.**

So does that mean that by Romans 13:1 our country was created by sin? It would say that both the American Revolution and Martin Luther King, Jr.'s civil disobedience were sinful acts. Using our current method of interpretation, we'd have to agree. Both of those acts were against the currently established governing authorities. Furthermore, we'd have to condemn even the actions of German Christians who resisted the Nazi government.

What makes it okay say doing these were not morally wrong, but same sex marriage would be?
User avatar #440 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I've actually talked about this very verse recently. You see, they were not in the wrong because the whole chapter, when looked at as a whole, is all about rankings. The government and the people are on the same level. The people should follow the government and the government should submit to the people. But above both of them is God. When the government is not adhering to God then the people act, when the people are not adhering to God the government acts.

That is the difference. Racism is clearly forbidden in the bible, thus MLKJ was in the right. Many of the acts of Nazi Germany were also wrong, thus the rebelling Germans were in the right. But in this case, gay sex is clearly stated as wrong in the bible and thus, in the context of that verse, should not be supported.
#414 - Very true, I think they still are good laws to follow even if …  [+] (1 new reply) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
User avatar #416 - draezeth (04/22/2013) [-]
Right!
#408 - In some cases it is removed. I know of some churches that will… 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#402 - Well it seems to me that John 8:7 means that you should not pu…  [+] (23 new replies) 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
#413 - tontosrevenge (04/22/2013) [-]
So you believe that our NON-SECULAR government shouldn't allow same sex marriage because the bible is against it? Beliefs or not, our religion isn't in control of national law. And considering marriage has existed in more cultures than just the Christian religion, that argument doesn't work anyway. I believe that "love thy neighbor" does not mean denying them the right to marry someone they love.
User avatar #420 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
While our government is supposed to be secular, it's also true that it is, or at least should be, run by men and women who get their morals from some religion. Otherwise the laws of the country simply shift to support the wants of the majority of people.

That being said, while i don't want anyone else to be denied their religious beliefs, I also want the government to not support anything i know to be morally wrong. Now there is a difference between support and allow. I think that the law only needs to keep people from being hurt, that is it's job. It should not be dealing out marriage licences.

But there is no right to marriage. There is no right to sex or right to be loved even. Those are actions that everyone, even people who have gay sex are already fully allowed to do. But they don't just want to be allowed to do it all. They want to be recognized for what they are doing. They want someone to say what they are doing is right when it simply isn't.
#663 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #721 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
(replying up here because we have run out of room and it won't let me reply down there)

But name calling aside, the moral logic of the bible is sound. God, the all seeing and knowing being gave us our moral code because that moral code is designed for us just as we are designed for it.

But your morality, which I am guessing comes from your "logic" really comes from no where. There is nothing behind it because at it's core, there is no reason that hurting someone is bad, it's simply a thing. An action. Nothing makes it wrong. You can try to define it. Move things around. Murder is ok in self defense. Sex is ok outside of marriage if it's consensual. Stealing is alright so long as it won't be missed.
But all of that is based on your opinion. Based on how you feel. It's arbitrary and can change from person to person. I'm worried that you can't see the fact that the method for making laws you describe is to simply pull them from thin air based on a logic that you literally make up for yourself.


And of course you haven't heard a reason you accept. You don't follow my moral code. i have yet to hear any reason it should be legally supported.
#722 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #723 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I'm a tad surprised you'd say i don't know much about moral philosophy and such as it's one of my areas of study. I'm clearly not on my game, it's been an all nighter debating with you in between doing homework so apparently i'm not making points very well.

but you must understand that while all of that is great. it still leaves any definition of what is best for society. Yes there can be most efficient, but that doesn't deal with the morality. There's simply nothing backing it up when you say something is wrong. There's nothing to make it wrong besides that you have decided that its effect is a bad one. Others could disagree with you and their opinions would carry just as much weight.

As for the articles i'm pretty sure i've read at least three of those already but it couldn't hurt to read them again.

Your study, however, is less than convincing. I've seen a considerably larger number of studies done directly on gay populations while this only indirectly studies the effects of marriage.
User avatar #672 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I didn't say "I don't like" i said i think it's morally wrong. By calling me that name for thinking this way you call yourself the same for thinking murder should be outlawed simply because you think it's morally wrong.
#677 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #681 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see, well while i would have to disagree that homosexuality isn't harmful simply based on studies done and mental conditions and std rates in those who have gay sex being through the roof compared to normal people, there is also the fact that reason and logic do not dictate the current American government's actions and laws. In fact the driving factor behind it is simply that it follows the whims of the majority and those in power.

But let me ask, what makes something morally wrong? It seems you define that if an action hurts someone else, then it is wrong. And that can work as a definition for what is wrong. But I have to ask what makes it wrong? Why is hurting someone else wrong?
#685 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #689 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But the fact remains that comparable groups such a racial or gender related groups do not experience these mental conditions when being shunned. And std rates are many times higher in people who call themselves gay than in normal populations.

And I would say opinion far out weights "evidence" when it comes to law making.

And so you say they are better functioning, so then morality is based on what gets humans to function most efficniontly? Or is it that morality is whatever results in the most happyness for a human? If that's the case then how is putting people in jail good for happyness? How is the death penatly good for hapyness? It seems to me that that is random, arbitrary and base doff of nothing. There is nothing wrong with any action without God there to be the reason why it's wrong. Otherwise you are simply looking for what help society work most efficiently, and if we wanted we could make a much more efficient society although many freedoms would suffer for it.

#697 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #701 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Give me one reason for anything to be wrong without using what you personally think to be wrong. -_-

That question doesn't make sense. Nothing is wrong if there is no reason for it to be wrong.
In that way i hope you can see that everything you just said. All you claimed logic and reason is arbitrary. The law is based on what people decide they think is wrong, and when those opinions contradict then it's simply the most powerful people with those opinions that get it put into law. It's simply arbitrary.
#712 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#711 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #713 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
Those are all easy issues. But let me ask, is murder always wrong? What about the death penalty. Someone's life is being taken away against their will but it's being done because someone else decided they deserved it.
#714 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #715 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I see. But are you aware that there are some people who don't? Some people who think it's what's right?
#716 - kanade has deleted their comment.
User avatar #717 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
But you understand there is no logic behind morality without God to be the reason.

What is wrong with hurting someone else? Logically, if it were best for you, if you could get away with it, then you would do it. Logically you have no reason to care about anyone but yourself because you cannot feel pleasure given to them nor suffer their pain. Logically you should want the death penalty because it is the easiest and most efficient way to get rid of something that might be a threat to you.

You see, if you follow only cold logic, then you have no real reason to genuinely care about anyone else, although faking it might be a boon to you at times.
#718 - kanade has deleted their comment.
#431 - tontosrevenge (04/22/2013) [-]
That being said, while i don't want anyone else to be denied their religious beliefs, I also want the government to** not support anything i know to be morally wrong.**

So does that mean that by Romans 13:1 our country was created by sin? It would say that both the American Revolution and Martin Luther King, Jr.'s civil disobedience were sinful acts. Using our current method of interpretation, we'd have to agree. Both of those acts were against the currently established governing authorities. Furthermore, we'd have to condemn even the actions of German Christians who resisted the Nazi government.

What makes it okay say doing these were not morally wrong, but same sex marriage would be?
User avatar #440 - Vandeekree (04/22/2013) [-]
I've actually talked about this very verse recently. You see, they were not in the wrong because the whole chapter, when looked at as a whole, is all about rankings. The government and the people are on the same level. The people should follow the government and the government should submit to the people. But above both of them is God. When the government is not adhering to God then the people act, when the people are not adhering to God the government acts.

That is the difference. Racism is clearly forbidden in the bible, thus MLKJ was in the right. Many of the acts of Nazi Germany were also wrong, thus the rebelling Germans were in the right. But in this case, gay sex is clearly stated as wrong in the bible and thus, in the context of that verse, should not be supported.
#391 - I fully understand, I just wanted to clarify is all. And I don… 04/22/2013 on Gay Marriage 0
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User avatar #19 - kiratheunholy (05/09/2013) [-]
Do you not have morals? Like seriously do you not have any? You claim that you only do as the bible instructs every time someone asks you about morals, but do you not know right from wrong without religion?

If so perhaps you should learn it. I'm an agnostic and I still know what's right from wrong without a higher entity instructing me on it. If the only thing keeping you from being a moral-less prick is religion then you are probably a psychopath.
User avatar #16 - justinsane (04/04/2013) [-]
Lets just put this here, shall we? Fewer purple lines
User avatar #18 to #16 - justinsane (04/04/2013) [-]
Now I strongly disagree that more studies need to be done in order to come to a consensus. All of the leading bodies which have done research on the subject have found no reason to indicate that gays are naturally more likely through their expression of sexuality to have any types of adverse effects. The only people I have heard calling for more research are the same people claiming that climate change is not a thing or that natural selection doesnt happen. There is a consensus in the scientific community and it is people who are not a part of the community who claim that they cant make conclusions (because they dont like the ones made)
User avatar #17 to #16 - Vandeekree (04/04/2013) [-]
Tis a good idea
#14 - highclassbean (02/11/2013) [-]
thank you for being so informative and calm in that religious conversation with thebritish.guy. really gave a positive look on the religious community.
User avatar #15 to #14 - Vandeekree (02/11/2013) [-]
Why thank you. Simply following the bible though. It says to approach the nonbeliever with respect and politeness.
#10 - anonymous (09/07/2012) [-]
******* idiot.
#9 - Vandeekree (09/01/2012) [-]
**Vandeekree rolled a random image posted in comment #40 at Christian dating **
#5 - Vandeekree (09/14/2011) [-]
**Vandeekree rolled a random image**
User avatar #4 - Vandeekree (07/27/2011) [-]
**Vandeekree rolls 1**
User avatar #3 - Vandeekree (08/08/2010) [-]
**Vandeekree rolls 4**
#1 - bearycool **User deleted account** (07/14/2010) [-]
*pats head* don't worry my son I read your comment 80
User avatar #2 to #1 - Vandeekree (07/14/2010) [-]
Thank you, now I feel loved. i guess that's what I get for posting in the morning when the average funnyjunker is asleep.
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