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MuahahaOfLore

Last status update:
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Gender: male
Age: 27
Date Signed Up:4/05/2010
Location:NJ USA
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latest user's comments

#111 - Because my undergrad was in labor management and in Law school…  [+] (19 replies) 09/24/2016 on Trumper Comp54 0
#112 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Make 1 case for unions.
User avatar
#113 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
The best reason is when the employer is paying less than market rate.
A Union forms between the employees, and now the employer has to either fire them all or negotiate with them.
When they are paid a fair rate the union will become unnecessary.
#114 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Well, at least you dont follow bible's teachings.
But you should.
"First shall be last" in summary is how poeple who entered willingly into contract on agreed before price had secend toughts once they realized that others had better.
So your argument is that unions should be made to scam employers and renegociate under duress.
Whith means that employer should just have clause in contract that premature breaking the contract woulld be met with monetery fine.

Contracts are made between 1 employee and 1 employer and as such collective bargaining is imo BS.
On the same principle equal pay is bullshit as well.
Its rare for me to agree with bible but when its right, its rite.
User avatar
#115 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
the employer can close the business at any time

If the only workers available wont work then the business will close regardless
#116 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
And water boils when heated.
User avatar
#117 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
are you trolling me?
or are you suggesting that people should be taken advantage of because the have no collective voice.

Most things are grey, Unions are not always bad.
#118 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
How are they being taken advantage of?
They agreed to their wages. Nobody pointed gun at their head and forced them to enter that contract. If they tought that contract was unfair they could have taken a pass at signing it.
User avatar
#119 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
Extreme example:
The Set Up:
Say you are in a town in the middle of nowhere, the only job available is working the coalmine or services related to coalmine workers.
The owner pays minimum wage but refuses to issue masks/filters.
Issue:
You have two options, lobby the county government to force safety measures to be implemented, or quit and try to move yourself and family.
Option 3 is unionize, force the Owner to issue safety measures.
Should the Owner refuse the Mine shuts down from the union.
Should the Union ask for to much the Mine shuts down and the town disappears.
#120 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
You still forget that little thing i mentioned about having in contract clause that not doing your job at conditions agreed beforehand will result in monetery fine. So let them have a strike-they will be taken to the cleaners for all employer can take.

You also mentioned changing the law to put a burden of providing safety measures on employer so... unions aare still disgusting thing

"Oh dis contract doesnt look well to me. I know, ill take the job to gain employers trust and then take his workplace hostage." Trully upstanding moral behaviour
User avatar
#121 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
I don't support big unions only small ones

Ive given you fair arguments for why and when they are useful, If you don't want to learn then don't learn.

Im not responding anymore
#122 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Projection.
You are unwilling to even entertain the option that unions are obsolete/disgusting.

I guess all that fancy undergrad education doesnt quite prepares one to educate others.
#130 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
ill go ahead and cover this for MoL,
start out with a bit of personal experience. my father was injured on the job due to a medical condition. without union support he is laid off and the medical bills cost him his house and his assets. since he was a union member he was protected from that. if you need simple and clear lists for why unions are good for our economy and our workers then ill gladly help you with that.

www.commondreams.org/news/2015/09/11/evidence-keeps-piling-unions-are-very-very-very-good-workers

addictinginfo.org/2013/09/03/5-reasons-why-we-love-labor-unions-and-need-them-more-than-ever/

www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/news/2009/02/18/5597/unions-are-good-for-the-american-economy-2/

www.businessinsider.com/we-may-need-labor-unions-after-all-2012-12
#132 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
what do you mean "he was protected from that"?

Union forced employer to pay up? or they covered it from their own pocket(member fees and such)?

How would he be laid off?

ill start reading up those articles you provided right away.
meanwhile, could you clear up this story of yours?
#133 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
its much harder to fire a union member than a non union member. generally unions provide lawyers both to dispute wrongful termination as well as providing lawyers to help negotiate contracts. my father was a municipal employee and his union was also the union for law enforcement and other state/federal employees so his union had very strong contracts that supported all members of the union. if he wasnt a member of the union the city could have ended his position (it did so after he went on disability) and he would have been hard pressed to litigate it. since he was a union member the union would have provided him with legal advice and assistance. what people dont realize is one person arguing with a large entity like a state or city would simply run out of money before he could get fair compensation or even basic justice. once that single employee becomes a member of a union its 2 large entities both negotiating and money is no longer the deciding factor. everyone is against the rich just buying there way out of trouble and a union really is one of the few ways for blue collar workers to defend against that.
#134 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
you are arguing very diffrent subjects from what MoL was argueing, although your links aren't.

what Union did in your father's case was improving his existing standing within his situation- arguing within the confines of Labor Law and improving his negociating power prior to entering contract. no problems so far.
MoL's Exreame Example was straight up being dishonest when entering contract insted of negociating it at the start.

If unions are to be a force to put arguing sides at equal footing in case of problems/conflicts moneywise or law-savvy-wise, again not a problem.

But when they start to post hoc inventing stuff "for grass could be greener-PAY US MORE OR STRIKE" then we have a problem.
#137 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
wont allow me to reply to your last comment so im going to do it here.

thats not what cost of living is. its a statistic defining how much it costs to maintain a healthy living situation. if i get hired in to a place and work there 2 years its almost guaranteed i would make more to quit that job and go to a similar job somewhere else simply because the market price of my job has increased in those 2 years faster than my rate of pay has increased. the employer holds literally all the power in 90% of all interactions between employee/employer. would it be insulting of me to ask if you are working or have much experience in the job market?
#138 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Its not an insult. I have experience in workforce, not much, but some.

Mostly factory work 8h shift, in 4 divisions working same job around the clock.
Other than that, cashier job as cashier in mom and pop store.

and back to your new example:
why dont you threaten to leave yuor job if you would make more in other company?
if you can get hired elsewere on better conditions since you have 2 more year of workplace experience then ask for raise based on that or get hired elsewere.
Whats is the problem?
#135 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
you do realize that in the current economic environment internal pay raises almost never keep up with the market price right? its becoming the standard to advance laterally than to expect promotions and pay raises to keep pace with increased cost of living and expenses. a union is simply a tool to help bargain but its not an end all be all power. if you violate a contract as a union member you still violated said contract. why is all the impetus on the workers in your mindset? why cant a company or employer put a clause into the contract to not allow strikes or what not?
#136 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
It's of no matter what my perception of reality of con. environtment is.

Worker signed contract. Accepted terms and conditions, he is free to try to renegociate contract with employer, and said employer can refuse term or negociations altogether(within terms agreed in contract).

If workers situation makes it no longer profitable for him to endure the conditions that he agreet to he can not renew his contract or break the contract and accept consequences steming from such decision.

In "my mindset" employer hasn't done no wrong and still he is expected to right all the wrongs that supousedly plague those he employes.

cost of living and expences- has it crossed their mind that they are living above thier means? In areas that are to good for thier wages? Buying luxuries they cant afford or simply spending too much?

If situation in workforce is such as you and your liks present it to be, employers should be hiring workforce on vastly different conditions.
#7 - In B4 CNN announces Clinton puts Rosie in the front row  [+] (4 replies) 09/24/2016 on Flowers and the 40 kek's +77
User avatar
#52 - ironstorm (09/25/2016) [-]
Uninformed finn here.

Is that Rosie O donnel?

Why would Clinton put her in the front row?
#14 - xgolgothax (09/25/2016) [-]
Naw, she got the point. Going head to head with donald with that kinda shit would be hella bad. I hope she fucks up and does....in fact i hope her first fainting spell is timed with one of his sick burns.
#12 - blindpone (09/25/2016) [-]
I think there's a strict one-seat-per-guest rule
#15 - xgolgothax (09/25/2016) [-]
Duh, cant out two guests in 1 seat
#103 - From a labor standpoint the best option is to make it easy for…  [+] (21 replies) 09/24/2016 on Trumper Comp54 0
#110 - aliveraven (09/24/2016) [-]
How can you defend unions? For all i care they are useless drain of resources and nothing moee.
User avatar
#111 - MuahahaOfLore (09/24/2016) [-]
Because my undergrad was in labor management and in Law school I made the point of studying employment law, so I know why they are sometimes necessary
#112 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Make 1 case for unions.
User avatar
#113 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
The best reason is when the employer is paying less than market rate.
A Union forms between the employees, and now the employer has to either fire them all or negotiate with them.
When they are paid a fair rate the union will become unnecessary.
#114 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Well, at least you dont follow bible's teachings.
But you should.
"First shall be last" in summary is how poeple who entered willingly into contract on agreed before price had secend toughts once they realized that others had better.
So your argument is that unions should be made to scam employers and renegociate under duress.
Whith means that employer should just have clause in contract that premature breaking the contract woulld be met with monetery fine.

Contracts are made between 1 employee and 1 employer and as such collective bargaining is imo BS.
On the same principle equal pay is bullshit as well.
Its rare for me to agree with bible but when its right, its rite.
User avatar
#115 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
the employer can close the business at any time

If the only workers available wont work then the business will close regardless
#116 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
And water boils when heated.
User avatar
#117 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
are you trolling me?
or are you suggesting that people should be taken advantage of because the have no collective voice.

Most things are grey, Unions are not always bad.
#118 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
How are they being taken advantage of?
They agreed to their wages. Nobody pointed gun at their head and forced them to enter that contract. If they tought that contract was unfair they could have taken a pass at signing it.
User avatar
#119 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
Extreme example:
The Set Up:
Say you are in a town in the middle of nowhere, the only job available is working the coalmine or services related to coalmine workers.
The owner pays minimum wage but refuses to issue masks/filters.
Issue:
You have two options, lobby the county government to force safety measures to be implemented, or quit and try to move yourself and family.
Option 3 is unionize, force the Owner to issue safety measures.
Should the Owner refuse the Mine shuts down from the union.
Should the Union ask for to much the Mine shuts down and the town disappears.
#120 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
You still forget that little thing i mentioned about having in contract clause that not doing your job at conditions agreed beforehand will result in monetery fine. So let them have a strike-they will be taken to the cleaners for all employer can take.

You also mentioned changing the law to put a burden of providing safety measures on employer so... unions aare still disgusting thing

"Oh dis contract doesnt look well to me. I know, ill take the job to gain employers trust and then take his workplace hostage." Trully upstanding moral behaviour
User avatar
#121 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
I don't support big unions only small ones

Ive given you fair arguments for why and when they are useful, If you don't want to learn then don't learn.

Im not responding anymore
#122 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Projection.
You are unwilling to even entertain the option that unions are obsolete/disgusting.

I guess all that fancy undergrad education doesnt quite prepares one to educate others.
#130 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
ill go ahead and cover this for MoL,
start out with a bit of personal experience. my father was injured on the job due to a medical condition. without union support he is laid off and the medical bills cost him his house and his assets. since he was a union member he was protected from that. if you need simple and clear lists for why unions are good for our economy and our workers then ill gladly help you with that.

www.commondreams.org/news/2015/09/11/evidence-keeps-piling-unions-are-very-very-very-good-workers

addictinginfo.org/2013/09/03/5-reasons-why-we-love-labor-unions-and-need-them-more-than-ever/

www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/labor/news/2009/02/18/5597/unions-are-good-for-the-american-economy-2/

www.businessinsider.com/we-may-need-labor-unions-after-all-2012-12
#132 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
what do you mean "he was protected from that"?

Union forced employer to pay up? or they covered it from their own pocket(member fees and such)?

How would he be laid off?

ill start reading up those articles you provided right away.
meanwhile, could you clear up this story of yours?
#133 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
its much harder to fire a union member than a non union member. generally unions provide lawyers both to dispute wrongful termination as well as providing lawyers to help negotiate contracts. my father was a municipal employee and his union was also the union for law enforcement and other state/federal employees so his union had very strong contracts that supported all members of the union. if he wasnt a member of the union the city could have ended his position (it did so after he went on disability) and he would have been hard pressed to litigate it. since he was a union member the union would have provided him with legal advice and assistance. what people dont realize is one person arguing with a large entity like a state or city would simply run out of money before he could get fair compensation or even basic justice. once that single employee becomes a member of a union its 2 large entities both negotiating and money is no longer the deciding factor. everyone is against the rich just buying there way out of trouble and a union really is one of the few ways for blue collar workers to defend against that.
#134 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
you are arguing very diffrent subjects from what MoL was argueing, although your links aren't.

what Union did in your father's case was improving his existing standing within his situation- arguing within the confines of Labor Law and improving his negociating power prior to entering contract. no problems so far.
MoL's Exreame Example was straight up being dishonest when entering contract insted of negociating it at the start.

If unions are to be a force to put arguing sides at equal footing in case of problems/conflicts moneywise or law-savvy-wise, again not a problem.

But when they start to post hoc inventing stuff "for grass could be greener-PAY US MORE OR STRIKE" then we have a problem.
#137 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
wont allow me to reply to your last comment so im going to do it here.

thats not what cost of living is. its a statistic defining how much it costs to maintain a healthy living situation. if i get hired in to a place and work there 2 years its almost guaranteed i would make more to quit that job and go to a similar job somewhere else simply because the market price of my job has increased in those 2 years faster than my rate of pay has increased. the employer holds literally all the power in 90% of all interactions between employee/employer. would it be insulting of me to ask if you are working or have much experience in the job market?
#138 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
Its not an insult. I have experience in workforce, not much, but some.

Mostly factory work 8h shift, in 4 divisions working same job around the clock.
Other than that, cashier job as cashier in mom and pop store.

and back to your new example:
why dont you threaten to leave yuor job if you would make more in other company?
if you can get hired elsewere on better conditions since you have 2 more year of workplace experience then ask for raise based on that or get hired elsewere.
Whats is the problem?
#135 - tatteredmg (09/25/2016) [-]
you do realize that in the current economic environment internal pay raises almost never keep up with the market price right? its becoming the standard to advance laterally than to expect promotions and pay raises to keep pace with increased cost of living and expenses. a union is simply a tool to help bargain but its not an end all be all power. if you violate a contract as a union member you still violated said contract. why is all the impetus on the workers in your mindset? why cant a company or employer put a clause into the contract to not allow strikes or what not?
#136 - aliveraven (09/25/2016) [-]
It's of no matter what my perception of reality of con. environtment is.

Worker signed contract. Accepted terms and conditions, he is free to try to renegociate contract with employer, and said employer can refuse term or negociations altogether(within terms agreed in contract).

If workers situation makes it no longer profitable for him to endure the conditions that he agreet to he can not renew his contract or break the contract and accept consequences steming from such decision.

In "my mindset" employer hasn't done no wrong and still he is expected to right all the wrongs that supousedly plague those he employes.

cost of living and expences- has it crossed their mind that they are living above thier means? In areas that are to good for thier wages? Buying luxuries they cant afford or simply spending too much?

If situation in workforce is such as you and your liks present it to be, employers should be hiring workforce on vastly different conditions.
#133 - your association of culture with arts is something different …  [+] (2 replies) 09/24/2016 on Why is Hillary not 50p ahead? -1
#148 - dnf (09/24/2016) [-]
CULTURE by definition
"the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively."



wat
User avatar
#154 - MuahahaOfLore (09/24/2016) [-]
arts is one half
#94 - fleeing the police is probable cause  [+] (7 replies) 09/24/2016 on Trumper Comp54 0
User avatar
#123 - Sethorein (09/25/2016) [-]
But he fled AFTER being unlawfully stopped
User avatar
#124 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
The police can stop you for nothing, they cant hold you for nothing.

If they stop you and you run, thats probable cause.
User avatar
#125 - Sethorein (09/25/2016) [-]
The question is whether the stop involved an unlawful search eh?

Without the proceedings from the trial I just think it's a bit tricky to make a judgment eh?
User avatar
#126 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
I didnt know they also searched him, I was under the impression they stopped him and he ran.
A quick stop needs reasonable suspicion.
A search needs probable cause.
User avatar
#127 - Sethorein (09/25/2016) [-]
Well the article blurb doesn't give much eh?

Like was the guy just black in a neighbourhood without black people before he was stopped? Or was he swerving between lanes. That's the kinda stuff that makes a difference yknow?
User avatar
#128 - MuahahaOfLore (09/25/2016) [-]
reasonable suspicion is a really low threshold
User avatar
#129 - Sethorein (09/25/2016) [-]
Doesn't mean we shouldn't reserve judgement until we see the facts of the case.

Are we any better than the regressive left if we appeal to our personal prejudices rather than actual justice based on reason?
#90 - I dunno what happened, but that could be the reason the thumbs…  [+] (3 replies) 09/24/2016 on Trumper Comp54 +1
User avatar
#93 - opummagnus (09/24/2016) [-]
The weird thing is that I get the notification for Feels Good to Be a Clinton and everything else before it
According to the mention list stats, those were barely 30 minutes apart, and both were sent to 692, and yet this comp has fewer clicks
Something's fucky
#95 - opummagnus (09/24/2016) [-]
Wait, I'm reading this wrong
I just assumed the top content was this comp
This comp doesn't even show up in the mention history
User avatar
#96 - MuahahaOfLore (09/24/2016) [-]
maybe it wasn't mentioned then
I F'ed up