I understand what you're saying, and that is a big - #103339474 added by yargibtim at smart politics

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(10/02/2013) [-]

I want to weigh in how I feel about this whole gun control issue, but as this is the internet I know I'm just going to get yelled at for having an opinion different to someone else. But here it goes. The issue with gun control is the consistency of gun controls law. For example, its much harder to obtain a gun in NY than it is lets say in North Carolina. And that is where, at least in my opinion, the problem lies. People from NY will go drive somewhere with less strict gun laws buy a gun, then head back and sell it for a lot more. And I'm going to recite the whole "second amendment" thing cause thats just a cop out. It is the separation of state and federal government that allows this to happen, which is in the 10th amendment. I do wish to own a gun one day in the future, but I do think there needs to be more strict gun laws. I know that will not happen, at least not for a long time. If you took the time to read all of this I thank you and if you want to have a friendly debate on this issue, feel free to message me, if you're just gonna yell at me and thumb me down, go for it, it is the internet so I expect nothing. Thank you for reading.

#88 to #63 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Because gun control is not a solution.

Ending the drug war, mental health, ending welfare could all go a long way to curing violence in America.

#90 to #88 - yargibtim

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(10/03/2013) [-]

In what way?

#97 to #90 - texascsm

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(10/03/2013) [-]

While I disagree with his point on Welfare. It may be related however it is at best indirectly related to shootings. The drug war is a huge issue. The inability to legitimately control the border has led to a rather stupid strategy of simply "throw more guns at it" which has led to nothing but escalation. Stupid government programs have actually given out guns to cartels in an attempt to trace them and thus make arrests then they just kinda lost track of them thus have directly supported drug cartels. Also the drug war has created the drug dealers which are most peoples link to the criminal world. Obviously mental health is a huge part of this. People dont kill a room full of people if they are mentally stable.Also as it stands right now if someone is mentally unstable enough to shoot up a room they grab whatever (probably cheap and crappy) gun that they can and go shoot with an acuracy somewhere in the less than 10% range and many they hit are injured not killed before police take them down.IF all guns go away then they are still just as crazy but instead of getting a gun they go to google type "how to make a bomb" and find out that they can make one with **** they already have. Now accuracy is no longer a concept and there is 0 chance of a police response because the bomb is instant. However the mental health system in the U.S. is horribly in adequate however fixing it is a multi step, complicated, long term project which means it is much easier to just put "BOO guns bad" on a political flyer. And even not touching the actual debate of morality, or constitutional rights there is the practicality of gun control. Even if gun control works perfect all illegal guns dissapear and criminals dont traffic weapons or anything of the like. There is the guns in circulation how do you gather them with ought violating even more constitutional rights?

#99 to #97 - yargibtim

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(10/03/2013) [-]

There seems to be a misconception when it comes to gun control. I don't want guns to disappear. And its not going to fix all crime, crime is inevitable all the time. But, gun related crimes will most likely die down, as it has in other countries with strict gun control laws, i.e FInland. There are a lot of factors that come into anything like this and like I said before, there is no one all solution. But there has to be some kind of reform, or else things will only get worse. The drug war is a complicated issue, and I'll admit I'm not as well versed in that issue.

#110 to #99 - texascsm

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(10/03/2013) [-]

To me gun control does seem to be an all or nothing issue. I mean if you do nothing about the guns already in peoples possession then restricting new guns will only hurt. I say it will hurt because as it stands right now there is a large gap of knowledge about guns. People who own guns/ know about guns are viewed as dumb rednecks or gun nuts. And the people who dont own guns have never gone through the process of purchasing a gun and have listened to political retteric and seem to assume you just walk to wallmart with 20 bucks and walk out with a gun. This is not the case there is alot of regulation in place already and alot of licenses needed and there is a paper trail generated. Because of this any gun found is more traceable than a finger print. Because of this there is already a substantial blackmarket set up for the sale of illegal untraceable weapons. Cutting off the legal route is like if you shut down a companys competitor their sales go up. And like you said crime will always exist and criminals have no problem with breaking the law by definition. Also the U.S. is different from European countries for many reasons. The size of the border makes securing it difficult. The amount of guns already present. The gun laws of neighbors. The black market. As well as the culture which makes it a different scenario entirely. Also gun crime IS down not up. Across the U.S. gun crime is down across most if not all the U.S. the reason most people think its up is because of the reporting on it. Crime stories will always get rating and thus will always be played up.

#91 to #90 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Gun control has had a great history of success..... In oppressing people.

In stopping crime? We have sadly have yet to see one successful program despite how many times its been tried. So no success there.

But I digress,
Welfare so that poorer neighborhoods would be forced to work for a living again OR deal with charity thus pushing people to make a better life for them and their children and making them less likely to turn to crime. Also cutting spending for a failed program sweetens the deal.
Drug war needs to stop period. Drug legalization would bring prosperity to agriculture, provide jobs, and cut spending. All great economic benefits that would translate to a low crime rate. Also while directly eliminating a huge section of the criminals markets thus weakening organized crime.
And mental health could go a long way to help troubled teenagers.

#103 to #91 - yargibtim

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Legalize drugs? As in all drugs or just weed? Weed I understand, there have been many strides towards legalizing it, and I feel no strong way one way or the other about it. But crack? Heroine? Meth? should that really be legal?
Also, nothing is ever going to stop crime, crime is an inevitable part of life no matter where you from.
I'll say this with the most respect possible. I think some of your ideology is a bit misguided, and I would recommend you do more research in the issue, from all aspects.

#107 to #103 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Weed, cocaine and possible a few others. Well right now we have druggies and organized crime. Without it we would just have druggies.
Indeed however when people are working they are less likely to turn to a life of crime. Its more of a side goal with positive side effects.
The day I am told to do more research from a non political bard faggot that will be the day I-

#125 to #107 - valeriya

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Soviet union as well.

#126 to #125 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

lol faggot.

#127 to #126 - valeriya

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Lol, I'll get back on the board instead of stalking your posts.

#128 to #127 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

Take pride little commie today you were called a faggot but a true hero.

#129 to #128 - undeadwill

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(10/03/2013) [-]

By*

#76 to #63 - gibssowas

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(10/02/2013) [-]

Well and there you stated what I as a foreigner (from germany) think about this whole gun-talk in america.
Just make it harder to get a gun.
I mean maybe it's not going to make a difference, because you might still get one on the blackmarket or wherever else you can get one but maybe its a step in the right way.
Especially for me as a eurofag I think this whole issue is rather funny because I don't get it when people get so worked up about this.

#78 to #76 - yargibtim

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(10/03/2013) [-]

I understand what you're saying, and that is a big issue. But that is also a rarity. Most of the people who buy guns illegally, at least from what I know in New York, are usually small time gang bangers and drug dealers. And that is how they get their guns usually, by going to a different state and buying it there, filing off all the identification numbers and then selling it for 6 times the price here in NY. I understand that it isn't a fix all solution, but no solution will be. But it will be a start which is what is needed right now.