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User avatar #12699 - omnomnipotent (02/23/2013) [-]
Are the theists here comfortable with the Book of Job and how God portrays himself?
just curious
#12868 to #12699 - N. Korean citizen (02/24/2013) [-]
http:// www. [url deleted] /watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI
#12866 to #12699 - N. Korean citizen (02/24/2013) [-]
[url deleted]

An atheist's take on the book of Job
User avatar #12853 to #12699 - thirteenthdoctor (02/24/2013) [-]
You know how Thor is the God of Thunders, or how Aphrodite is the Goddess of Love?
Yeah, the Book of Job sort of shows that the Christian god is the God of Douchebaggery.
User avatar #12758 to #12699 - jokeface (02/23/2013) [-]
Please see my response to Ragnarfag. I could have placed it here but I felt it was a more fitting reply to his comment.
User avatar #12834 to #12758 - omnomnipotent (02/24/2013) [-]
But why did he test Job at all? Job showed his commitment for God before everything he loved was taken from him. He had a great life while serving his lord without question. If God was "testing" Job so he would continue worshiping him, I don't see a difference between God's intervention and terrorism.
User avatar #12848 to #12834 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
Some people only worship God when He blesses them, and then when He stops, they lose their faith in Him. That makes their faith superficial and meaningless. It's essentially letting God just buy their love. But sometimes He takes away their blessings so that they love Him freely and then it becomes more real. God ruined Job's life so that Job's faith would become more real.
User avatar #12849 to #12848 - omnomnipotent (02/24/2013) [-]
Job was a just person who accepted God and treated others as he wanted to be treated, even going as far as seeking forgiveness for his children's potential sins. It seems that all God did was scare Job into revering him even more. Was he not good enough for God before?
User avatar #12851 to #12849 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
It's not that he wasn't good enough, it's that God wanted to make his faith stronger.
User avatar #12854 to #12851 - omnomnipotent (02/24/2013) [-]
What was wrong with his faith beforehand, though? Apparently his faith wasn't good enough to the point where God intervened. In the end, the only difference in Jobs life were memories of suffering and loss and a fear of a being who could punish you no matter how you behave. It sounds like he chose to submit to God out of fear rather than selfless devotion.
User avatar #12858 to #12854 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
Well sort of, yes. We are told to fear God, but you need to understand what "fear" means in this context. It doesn't mean to just be scared of God at all times because He could crush you like a bug (although that's a good thing to remember). It means to recognize that God is supremely powerful, and therefore there is no use fearing anything else because God is infinitely greater than whatever it is you're scared of. That's not to say bad things won't happen to you if you worship Him, because bad things happen to everybody. But we should recognize and worship His power anyway, because doing so will allow us entrance into heaven. Of course, I have to admit that's a stretch in this context because at the time of Job, humans weren't able to go to heaven under any circumstances. But it applies today. Maybe He did this to make an example of how all people should behave now that we do have access to heaven.
User avatar #12936 to #12858 - omnomnipotent (02/24/2013) [-]
Does Job now inhabit the first circle of hell, or purgatory?
User avatar #12937 to #12936 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
Not sure. Yesterday I read an article saying that after Jesus opened heaven to the public, the righteous people who had been in She'ol (afterlife in the Old Testament housing everyone who died, regardless of conduct or faith) were saved from there. She'ol, according to another article which I'm reading right now, was divided into two sections separated by a chasm, a place of comfort (but not heaven) and a place of torment. I'm sure Job was sent to the place of comfort.

She'ol is mentioned in Luke 16:19-31 if you want to read it. It's interesting especially from a literary perspective, because it talks about a man in She'ol named Lazarus, but it's not the same Lazarus that Jesus resurrected. A rich man in the place of torment begs Abraham to send Lazaruz back to Earth to warn the man's family of the afterlife, and Abraham refuses because according to him, a man coming back to life would not sway the faith of those who denied the teachings of Moses. I found this ironic.
User avatar #12941 to #12937 - omnomnipotent (02/24/2013) [-]
I keep thinking Sheol is exclusive to Jewish and forget it's Christian as well.
Sounds like an afterlife away from afterlife.
User avatar #12945 to #12941 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
Haha, indeed. I actually didn't know about it myself until very recently. I used to think it was just hell.
User avatar #12702 to #12699 - ragnarfag (02/23/2013) [-]
Well , it would proof that god isn't omniscience.
But I don't know if it is seen canonical in the christan faith.
User avatar #12705 to #12702 - ragnarfag (02/23/2013) [-]
Oh, it is, I was a little bit retarded here.
But it's odd since it's stated in this book that god is omniscient.
User avatar #12757 to #12705 - jokeface (02/23/2013) [-]
God wasn't testing Job for His own benefit. He knew how Job would respond. He was testing him so that Job could actually continue worshiping God in spite of his many losses. Our faith holds more weight in times of suffering than in times of prosperity, because it means we're not just worshiping God because He blesses us, but rather that we're worshiping Him because we love and trust Him. And God wanted Job to live out this principle, because it would benefit Job spiritually.
#12864 to #12757 - N. Korean citizen (02/24/2013) [-]
Yeah, Satan had nothing to do with it right? God gave Satan the permission to take away all of Job's belongings. The whole persecution of Job was done because Satan questioned his faith. Your version does not put Satan into the picture at all, whereas what happened was Satan was the one who even introduced the concept of the persecution of Job, to which God replied, you take away all his belongings and he will still have faith. This is a response to Satan, in other words to prove to Satan that this was the case. Had he wanted to strengthen Job's faith he would not need to have been brought into this matter by Satan.
User avatar #12872 to #12864 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
I know Satan was involved, but I don't believe proving a point to Satan was a matter of priority for God. Even if it was Satan who initiated the persecution, God could still have been using it as an opportunity to strengthen Job's faith. Proving Satan wrong was just a bonus.
#12932 to #12872 - N. Korean citizen (02/24/2013) [-]
You claim to know the mind of God? Proving a point to Satan was the priority, because if it wasn't then this test would have occurred prior to Satan's words. Given that the actions on Job were a direct consequence of Satan's challenge, it is basic causality that Satan's words prompted Job's suffering.
User avatar #12933 to #12932 - jokeface (02/24/2013) [-]
Okay, fine, I'll concede. But that just means that God had even more reasoning for testing Job than what usually gets talked about.
User avatar #12770 to #12757 - ragnarfag (02/23/2013) [-]
Good point, wasn't thinking about that.
Thank you.
User avatar #12772 to #12770 - jokeface (02/23/2013) [-]
Anytime.
User avatar #12704 to #12702 - omnomnipotent (02/23/2013) [-]
The BoJ is considered a cannon by Christianity.
User avatar #12707 to #12704 - ragnarfag (02/23/2013) [-]
Yes, I behaved like a retard.
The Tanach is the old testament.
User avatar #12710 to #12707 - omnomnipotent (02/23/2013) [-]
It happens to the best of us! lol
#12706 to #12704 - omnomnipotent (02/23/2013) [-]
lol *canon
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