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User avatar #3121 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
Hey I just wanted to ask something: Was the NSDAP right wing? Because my history teacher said they were, but I was sure they were on the left wing as they were National Socialist and Socialism is left wing. If they are right wing their hatred of communists makes sense but I always thought it was because they associated the communists with the Jews. And while I'm here can someone tell me what are the beliefs of National Socialism as I am interested in learning more about it. Any help will be much appreciated.
User avatar #3243 to #3121 - szymonf (07/06/2012) [-]
look at the first word, NATIONALIST, that very word was meant to be abolished in communism
extremes mirror each other in how they reach their goals, that doesn't mean.
nazism is in favour of private property, communism seeks to abolish it, it also pushes for a distinct class structure, communism seeks to abolish it. Nazi's abolished strike's etc., something that communists were in favour of (true marxism not stalinism, maoism etc.). Nazism also creates a social structure based one race dominating others, communism seeks to abolish all nationality, religion, race to create state unity free from discrimination. The nazi's hated capitalism because it was viewed as a "jewish puppet", communists hate it because it creates social inequality

It was anti-capitalist in the beginning however it shifted to anti-marxist and anti-semitic to gain the support of the wealthy.
as you can see some of these points are SIMILAR TO STALINIST school of communist thought, however the reasons as to why stalin implemented them is quite different
User avatar #3289 to #3243 - techketzer (07/07/2012) [-]
"nazism is in favour of private propert"
Means of production were de facto state-owned in NS-Germany though.
Explain that.

There are superficial differences between NS-pattern and Soviet-pattern socialism, but the underlying mechanisms are virtually identical.

Again, this article explains the matter in exceptional detail and clarity.
mises.org/daily/1937/
#3283 to #3243 - anonymous (07/07/2012) [-]
Nazi's abolished strike's etc., something that communists were in favour of (true marxism not stalinism, maoism etc.).

You forgot Leninism. Lenin strictly forbade strikes as well. Also, Maoism and Stalinism aren't considered right wing.

nazism is in favour of private property, communism seeks to abolish it, it also pushes for a distinct class structure, communism seeks to abolish it.

In practice, however, "private" property was controlled by the government. For example, future plant construction for big business was decided by the government, and all profits were invested automatically into areas the GOVERNMENT chose, rather than the owner. In essence, this was no different from the Soviet model seeing as how both systems had the state exercising rights of ownership.

it also pushes for a distinct class structure, communism seeks to abolish it.

Stalinism, on the other hand, does not. The "Communist" states had some of the largest wealth gaps in the world, where members of the Communist party were feasting whilst the peasants were starving. Nazism, at least, doesn't abolish the middle class.

Nazism also creates a social structure based one race dominating others, communism seeks to abolish all nationality, religion, race to create state unity free from discrimination.

True. But that's the main difference. Nazism is National Socialism, Communism is international socialism.

The nazi's hated capitalism because it was viewed as a "jewish puppet", communists hate it because it creates social inequality

That's also the reason why they hated Communism, as Karl Marx was Jewish. But "jewish influence" was only ONE of the reasons why they hated both systems. The Nazis also hated Capitalism it because it puts profit and self interest first rather than "The Volk"'s welfare. Laws, such as economic planning, state control of finance and welfare programs were set up rather than total nationalization.
User avatar #3290 to #3283 - techketzer (07/07/2012) [-]
Anon, please register so I can add you to my friend-list.
You clearly know your stuff.
User avatar #3288 to #3283 - szymonf (07/07/2012) [-]
all you did was repeat what i explained at different parts of my point....
#3387 to #3288 - anonymous (07/08/2012) [-]
You claimed the Nazis supported the principle of private property.
I pointed out that the government controlled the means of production..

You claimed the Nazis only hated Capitalism because it was "jewish".
I pointed out that that's also why they hated Communism, as well as the fact that the principles of private enterprise were opposed to Nazi practice.

Not all your points were wrong per se, you were just letting out facts and not others, making them seem more different from the Soviets than they really were.
User avatar #3291 to #3288 - techketzer (07/07/2012) [-]
If that's all you can see, then I would strongly recommend a pair of glasses.
Unless your malfunction lies on the way from the sensoric cortex to the motoric, in that case I can't help you.
#3270 to #3243 - repostsrepost (07/07/2012) [-]
Nationalism isn't a foreign concept in communist country. The level of nationalist propaganda in communist countries far exceeds that of most other countries.
#3206 to #3121 - anonymous (07/06/2012) [-]
The Soviets wanted to distance themselves from the Nazis, so they declared National Socialism to be right wing. The Nazis hated communists and Social Democrats the same way the Social Democrats hated Communists and Nazis: They were all competing for power.

Both supported the planned economy (where government controls production, distribution, prices and trade).

Both supported centralization (in American terms, the federal government taking controlling and removing state governments' power).

Both attacked Religion. Hitler on many occasions claimed to be pro-christian in public, but in private he was known to make very conflicting statements. Nazi Policy towards religion created a huge amount of Christian opposition the same way it had done in the Soviet Union.

The Nazis supported Euthanasia, legalized abortion for non-aryan women, and made the physical health of German citizens a government matter (kinda like today's leftists).
User avatar #3368 to #3206 - ginginhunter (07/08/2012) [-]
Started left , ended right
User avatar #3233 to #3206 - szymonf (07/06/2012) [-]
hitler was never a vegetarian...
he reduced his meet consumption for health reasons and he MUSED about becoming a vegetarian after his thousand year reich was created...
#3280 to #3233 - anonymous (07/07/2012) [-]
While that is probably true, it seems perfectly compatible with the Nazi Party's left wing policies such as animal welfare and environmental protection.
#3299 to #3280 - anonymous (07/07/2012) [-]
environmentalism is not a true communist or socialist platform.
environmental parties do no even fit on the political spectrum
examples would be the green parties of Germany, New Zealand and Canada
User avatar #3209 to #3206 - techketzer (07/06/2012) [-]
Thank you for that picture.
Will come in handy.
User avatar #3171 to #3121 - turdfurguson (07/06/2012) [-]
Nazism is the most far-right political view possibly. It has nothing to do in any way with left-wing socialism. Left-wing socialism was created by Karl Marx, and Hitler himself said "our adopted term socialism has nothing to do with Marxian socialism" making sure no one would confuse Nazism with leftism. When someone says "socialism" by itself they are referring to Marxist socialism. What the Nazis had, "National Socialism" is a totally different idea on all levels.
User avatar #3757 to #3171 - ginginhunter (07/10/2012) [-]
The thing is Socialist Nazionalism was born under the left wing , and after that slowly was converted to right wing
User avatar #3207 to #3171 - techketzer (07/06/2012) [-]
You best be trolling.
But I reckon you're just lying.
User avatar #3146 to #3121 - techketzer (07/05/2012) [-]
There is virtually no difference between the German (national)socialists and the Soviet socialists of the 20th century.
That's exactly why they were at each other's throats: rivalry among tyrants knowing they could not trust each other.

Here's an excellent article that should clear the matter:
mises.org/daily/1937/
User avatar #3172 to #3146 - turdfurguson (07/06/2012) [-]
there is no similarity between marxist socialism and nazi socialism. they are the two most opposite views that could possibly exist
User avatar #3208 to #3172 - techketzer (07/06/2012) [-]
They are identical.

Read the article I've linked.
User avatar #3244 to #3208 - turdfurguson (07/06/2012) [-]
What I think you're forgetting is that there are two political fields by which you can judge an ideology: social and economic. There has never been any doubt (by anyone sane) that Nazism is far-right socially; obviously because they believe in inferior races and what not. Socialism is left-wing both economically and socially. What youre trying to say is the nazis were left-wing economically as well, even though both communists, socialists, and nazis themselves say is completely false.

I'll admit a few policies of his, such as governmental monitoring of economic affairs, leaned left, but the entire system was not marxian socialist. As for the left-wing politics he did in fact pursue; they led to millions of jobs being created and the revival of the worst economy hit by the post-war depression.

Plain and simple, the nazi's right-wing policies caused the Holocaust, while his left-wing policies created jobs and created a booming economy.



#3287 to #3244 - anonymous (07/07/2012) [-]
Socialism is left-wing both economically and socially.

Lol whut. Socialism is an ECONOMIC philosophy. You can get liberal socialism, conservative socialism, marxist socialism... Even Arab socialism, which is socialist in the economic sense but very socially conservative.

As for the left-wing politics he did in fact pursue; they led to millions of jobs being created and the revival of the worst economy hit by the post-war depression.

Not exactly. Women and minorities weren't counted, and the massive unprofitable public works programs helped to push the country further into debt. Hitler's massive military spending created many jobs, but they would only have been sustained if the new military ended up being put to work. Quite a few historians have suggested that if Germany hadn't gone to war, its economy would have crashed horribly.

his left-wing policies created jobs and created a booming economy.

Big businesses, like IGF, Krupp and Degussa were allowed to remain in private hands so long as they followed government directives (which weren't always profitable). Any private company unable to meed orders were nationalized, but the executives would not be prosecuted unless they refused to obey. Hugo Junkers is a good example. In order to keep profits up, many industrialists used slave labour in order to keep up with the planned economy, rather than lose their business. Both Stalin and Hitler used slave labour to benefit their economy, but I wouldn't exactly called that "successful".

Plain and simple, the nazi's right-wing policies caused the Holocaust

And which "right wing" policies were these? Euthanasia? Anti-Zionism? Soviet-style deportation? I betcha most of the policies that created the Holocaust could be found in most Communist states as well.
User avatar #3281 to #3244 - techketzer (07/07/2012) [-]
I do not care what they say in the slightest, their actions and policies speak for themselves. If you take an ideologists words for face value, you'll be decieved as soon as he opens his mouth. You are apparently very guilty of that mistake.

And no, these are not two fields, it is one single large one, connected in the middle by the mechanism of government. Seriously, what do you even know?

tl;dr: The means of production in nationalsocialist Germany were in the hands of the state, solidly classifying it as a socialist nation.
"left-wing" and "right-wing" is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
#3138 to #3121 - reaganomix (07/05/2012) [-]
Also, here is the Communist revolution that occurred in Germany after World War I

Look towards the right where it says commanders and leaders. There is one thing in common with all of them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Revolution_of_1918%E2%80%931919
User avatar #3139 to #3138 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
Yes i am doing about those in history at the moment, such as the Spartakist revolution and the Kapp Pusch. Also we have learnt that when ever the Communists would revolt the Freikorps would be called in by the Right wing, and whenever the Right revolted the communists would stop it, and they would act as each others deterrents (i believe that is the right word)
#3136 to #3121 - reaganomix (07/05/2012) [-]
I hope this simple picture makes everything clearer.

As the left and right sides of the spectrum become more radical, the more they start to resemble each other. The Nazi Party was very socialist in their policies, but they also promoted philosophies that the radical left would have hated like Nationalism.
User avatar #3147 to #3136 - techketzer (07/05/2012) [-]
The upper one is bullshit based on wartime Soviet propaganda.
It's a fucking shame people are still buying that nonsense 70 years later.

The lower one is halfway decent, but you should make the lower ends meet each other in a pinnacle of Totalitarianism.
User avatar #3137 to #3136 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
Thanks mate extremely helpful!
User avatar #3124 to #3121 - indiaan (07/05/2012) [-]
Right wing is usualy considered more conservative where left is considered progressive. The NSDAP was extremely conservative, (could call it regressive into medival morals even) maybe thats why your teacher says they were right wing... I myself woulden't know, they have aspects of both from what I remember from history class.
User avatar #3125 to #3124 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
Thank you i think i may have just gotten confused by something my teacher said as he did a diagram of what ideologies are left and right wing and he put socialism on the left with communism but never defined where national socialism fell on the political spectrum. I do worryingly have a copy of Mein Kampf so maybe i should try and have a read of what national socialism is about from there.
User avatar #3126 to #3125 - indiaan (07/05/2012) [-]
Ha! have that too, never read it though, just to showoff
User avatar #3127 to #3126 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
That was kinda the reason i have it, but i am kinda interested in reading it certainly now that i have friends who share the same views as me on certain political subjects.
User avatar #3128 to #3127 - indiaan (07/05/2012) [-]
I feel compelled to ask..... are you a nazi?
User avatar #3129 to #3128 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
No, i wish i could say that to seem like a hipster but ,no im not. I agree with somethings that the nazi's believed and did, but it is kinda frowned upon in modern society to believe anything slightly radical such as National Socialism, certainly here in England.
User avatar #3130 to #3129 - indiaan (07/05/2012) [-]
Okay then. It sucks how moralists are todays radicals, and disapprove of everything that doesn't fit into thier narrow mindset
User avatar #3133 to #3130 - firejarjar (07/05/2012) [-]
Sometimes I do feel like being a neo-nazi but that could be just me trying to satisfy my teenage need to rebel. But i can't even draw a swastika on a piece of work in Art lessons without my class accusing me of being a nazi and being racist. Its ridiculous how people cant just accept peoples views and beliefs just because of what someones done in the past. I mean the majority of people accept people's religion so why dont they accept their belief in a political ideology?
User avatar #3165 to #3133 - szymonf (07/06/2012) [-]
if you want to be a neo-nazi then move to germany. you can lynch a few turks and murder a greek or two
User avatar #3227 to #3165 - techketzer (07/06/2012) [-]
Or you can get locked up for 20 years for saying the wrong two words or spraying a swastika.

Much more likely.
User avatar #3230 to #3227 - szymonf (07/06/2012) [-]
what two words?
User avatar #3232 to #3230 - techketzer (07/06/2012) [-]
"Heil Hitler" or "Sieg Heil" are most notorious, though they can throw you in jail for anything they consider "re-engagement in National Socialist activities".
It's not any closer defined than that, so if they want you, they'll get you.

And yes, 20 years. Two decades.
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