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#15205 - AreyouSerious (12/03/2012) [-]
In all honesty, I can't understand the plan of Communism. I mean the general plan is pretty good, No one is above the other, everyone is equal socially and pitches there fair share into a collective and the group as a whole prospers. It's like you and your friends don't have enough money to buy something alone but if you pool it all together you can have it. But what Communist want is so outlandish. Basically the final stage of Communism is that there are no nations and everyone in the world lives together in a giant commune. Right off the bat, trained people who are doctors, lawyers and farmers are going to be favored more then unskilled workers. Also who's going to manage everything, the basis of a Communist system is that everyone has a say so it has to be a democracy. There has to be a chain of management from presidents, to senators to governors and they are going to be held higher then factory workers. Also when communist are actually successful and not brutally murdered, some communist say how they handled things was wrong and they're betrayers to the revolution. Finally, for a system that's about brotherhood, they bicker with each other all the time and label themselves as Marxist-Leninist, Maoist, Trotskyist etc. and how different processes on how they're "revolution is going to happen". I don't even know anymore. Is there something I'm not understanding?
User avatar #15265 to #15205 - threeeighteen (12/04/2012) [-]
The more people involved in a communist movement also means the more chances of that movement being corrupted, Communism seems like an easily corruptible and manipulative ideology - not that the others are much better, ideologies practically exist to benefit one group of people over another, be it race, religion or even another political ideology.
User avatar #15263 to #15205 - robopuppy (12/04/2012) [-]
Communism is a math problem. 2+2=4. Except humans are variables. You can't say that 2+X=4 with X still being a defined variable. With so many humans the outcome is never perfect.
User avatar #15210 to #15205 - airguitar (12/03/2012) [-]
The thing is, true communists believe that "human nature" is purely based off of people's surroundings. They believe that if money and greed were abolished, then everyone would act different and be able to function in this way. For me, this is the hardest area to argue with them on. They might as well be writing a fictional story, human nature is a certain way and always will be, history will tell them.

As an economics major myself, there are also COUNTLESS other problems involved related to your "managing" point. Prices are needed to allocate resources to their best uses- in a system without prices the level of efficiency would be much lower and there would in the end be more poor people since the gains of trade wouldn't be captured.
User avatar #15259 to #15210 - DiAnonLord (12/04/2012) [-]
thinking that human nature is one and only is a clear misunderstanding of how humanity works.

go back 100 years: it was agreed that anyone who wasn't male and white was inferior. now if you think that you're labelled as a racist chauvinistic bastard

200 years: slavery

etc, etc.

although therea are certain aspects to humans that are somehow natural (trust your group, reject other groups), they are molded in outsanding, spectacular and suprisingly easy ways by the society they're inserted in
User avatar #15258 to #15210 - arisaka (12/04/2012) [-]
I was the guy who told you that.
User avatar #15270 to #15258 - airguitar (12/04/2012) [-]
I had heard the argument a bunch before but never in such a thorough fashion. I still think you're insane ;P
User avatar #15221 to #15210 - Yardie (12/03/2012) [-]
It's easy to counter that argument though. Violent crimes have always existed, even before currency or actual jobs or any of that existed.

In communism if you want to advance yourself, become better than others, you either have to get yourself into a government position, or become a criminal and steal from your neighbors. Anything else you do will not grant you a better life material-wise.
User avatar #15257 to #15221 - arisaka (12/04/2012) [-]
Those violent acts were born out of poverty. It's not that hard a concept to grasp.

Secondly, I truly hope you are not dismissing socialized behaviour. It's a really relevant and well-proven theory.
User avatar #15266 to #15257 - Yardie (12/04/2012) [-]
It's human nature to want to advance yourself. We have big brains for a reason, we're not sheep. Well some people are but humans can be self-sufficient regardless.

Violent acts don't always stem from poverty either. There's other motives for murder, rape, theft, etc.

You say "its not that hard a concept to grasp" when you don't even look past the surface value of things.

The whole notion of "to each according to his need, from each according to his ability" seems retarded and counter-productive to me.

Also what are you talking about? The notion of Communism implies a dismissal of socialized behavior. It implies that humans can't be social without the intervention of government. It's human nature for us to help each other. That's why we have interdependent jobs, and have had interdependent jobs since our branch of humanity has existed.
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