And you think that a country that could potentially end - #119654743 added by spetsnaztm at heh

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

As a Russian I am very ashamed of what is being done to the Ukraine. They are a free country now and they should be free to excel or fail as they choose. Nobody should be able to control another countries rights or way. I'm ashamed of a lot of things my country has done these days....I'm sorry everyone we aren't all that bad I promise. We are actually pretty cool

#32 to #21 - swagbot

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

Hey Dood, as i understand:

... Ukraine has historically been part of Russia up until a few decades ago.
... Ukraine has very close cultural ties to Russia - almost like a province than another country.
... Eastern Ukraine has citizens / families-of-citizens of Russian people.
... 'Uprisings' in Ukraine were obviously started by U.S. CIA.
... 'Rebels' are Neo-Nazis (wtf!?), immediately selling out Ukraine to World Bank, Oil interests (surprise surprise ;).
... West Ukraine's aggression against Crimea (which simply wants to be left alone) is obvious, shameless baiting of a military response to justify 'assistance' from NATO. (why can W. Ukraine not just leave Crimea alone?)
... I understand that E. Ukraine (Crimea) held votes that confirmed Russian-Leaning leaders for their government - seems like they desire closer ties to Russia, and simply want to separate from the West.

Sources: These, and many other small articles:
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37889.htm
vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/06/translation-of-must-read-article-of.html

(Not taking everything they have to say without question... but i know the history of my country (USA) of overthrowing other countries where there is a profit to be made... I'm just suspicious).

#42 to #32 - andrakian

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(07/06/2014) [-]

Not really . Ukraine is pretty liked to russia, but not on such terms. Russian culture is Eastern-Slavic, with heavy asian influences. Ukrainian culture is Cossack and Tatar. Now that wasn't that much of a difference on the russian empire era, bur from the creation of the USSR and ahead, Russia has a history of mistreating the ukrainian population, like during the holodomors of the 30's. The ukrainians even fought beside Hitler when he invaded the USSR.

The situation of Ukraine is a ***********, really. THey have a choice of joining the New Putin Empire on one side, and being exploited by the UE on the other. I would still prefer the UE, but its a matter of the lesser evil.

#38 to #32 - auda

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

Most likely that most of the rebels are going to want autonomy instead of joining Russia. Having a few people wanting to join Russia. Okay.
Burning a building in Odessa where no fireman or policeman help the peacefully people protesting to join Russia. Not okay.
The main reason for some people to stand up is that the people want to draw power away from Kiev.

From this moment on it's too far to unite Ukraine under one banner again. Too much blood has been spilled on all sides.

Truth be told this could have all been avoided if the EU didn't give a ultimatum to Ukraine. Letting the former president choosing between either EU's deal or Russia's deal started this whole thing and the EU said it's not going to be both deals. It's really hard to find that Yanukovich stopped the deal with EU. It is there but the details are gone.
The choice was pretty simple.
-Sort of join the eu so visa's are easily aquired and trading would be easier and gain around 800 million in loans and about a 1 billion dollar loan as well.
OR
-Russia buys out 15 billion worth of debt and reduce gas price from 400 dollars to 268.50 dollars per 1000 cubic meters of gas.

So choice is easy right? Eu wants Ukraine to join and sets up an ultimatum. Russia offers a way better deal. 15 Billion dollar and about a 40% discount on gas against 2 billions in loans and better trading and visa's in EU.

Yes Yanukovich wanted Ukraine to join EU but when you get a phony sort of membership against a deal like that the choice is pretty simple.

Also I'm pretty sure that Ukraine sent forces to deal with the uprising in the east just when the IMF gave Ukraine money. So it's not a hard guess to know what happend with that money.

In the end this is all a dispute that started out with trade and natural resources between the EU and the EEU and ended up with Ukraine being sliced into 2 to a point where they can't come back from.

#40 to #38 - auda

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

If you look at this map you will see the EEU and the EU.

Russia mainly backs the EEU with 3 different countries in there as well. With 2 potential candidates. 2 potential candidates that Russia has influenced. Ukraine and Georgia.

Georgia already had 2 wars with Russia in with my opinion also a war about controlling the black sea as a economical barrier.

And then there is Ukraine also a country with close ties to Russia culture wise and historical wise but the thing is that this map doesn't say that it is also a candidate for EU member ship. What you end up is with 2 factions (EU and EEU) both wanting to have as much influence in their own territorries

Also a country that isn't even listed on the map. Moldavia. Bottom left of Ukraine. Also a country that isn't even recognised by most countries in the world. Transnistria. Within Moldavia there is a region that is a country not recognised so Moldavia says they are autonomous.

And why is this little part of Moldavia important to russia? Well they have army base set up within Transnistria within Moldavia. And mostly not mentioned in news when the ukraine crisis started people within Transnistria wanted to join Russia as well.
The only reason Transnistria exsist is because of the presence of the Russian army.

Also have a laugh and look up flags of Transnistria

#39 to #38 - swagbot

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

WHOA WHOA WHOA.... stop with that first paragraph!!!

I suggest that there is a completely Alternate side of the story... even what the Media said contradicts their own story - (that Pro-Russia, Pro-Autonomy, Pro-Crimea 'terrorists' burnt the Trade Union building) - the Fascist Pro-New-Regime rabble did! That's admitted to by their Youtube uploads, and the Mainstream media themselves!

Watch this now! If the things presented in this video are true (which the Web of Evidence I've researched suggests), then the 'facts' the MSM have been presenting to us is completely opposite to Reality!!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q

#41 to #39 - auda

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

I've seen that video and yes. The ukranian people there did burn the people protesting in the union building.
I'm not sure if you misinterpreted what I tried to say but I know that ukranian authorities didn't do anything to save the pro-russians within the union building. Also a lot of pictures of people making molotovs in Odessa. Outside in the middle of the street. If you would do that if you were a pro-ukraine you could do that. Pro-russian and you would die. So I agree in that.

The burning of Odessa is one of the main factors of the autonomy that people want in other regions.

#31 to #21 - russianbro

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

Have you seen the situation in Ukraine right now?

Those people are better off with Russia than what Kiev is doing with Ukraine right now.
And im not even saying Putin is a flawless guy or anything

Hell he might be crazy as **** but i sure as hell know that he is not even close to be as bad as the **** Kiev is doing right now.

While the US and NATO clap their hands in aproval.

#33 to #31 - swagbot

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

"Clap Their Hands"

i.e.

Provide Weapons, Cash, Agents, Support, Entrapping Loans etc. etc.
Latin America 1950s-1980s all over again ;)

#36 to #33 - russianbro

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

also this

Ukraine Crisis - What You're Not Being Told

#35 to #33 - russianbro

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

Oh but it gets even better

rt.com/news/158212-academi-blackwater-ukraine-military/

This video is a good example as well.

The Odessa Massacre - What REALLY Happened

#37 to #35 - swagbot

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

I'm actually watching that right now...

What i wouldn't give to magically summon a Heavy Transport Aircraft filled with Arms and Armor, and airdrop it right on the Autonomists' help them get the **** outta there and toward the East...

And I'm gonna go back to my plush, boring job on Monday (after 4th of July... ironic) and pay another ~$500 out on my next paycheck to keep funding this madness.
#AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRHHHHHHHHHHGHHHHHHGHGHHHHHHHH

#23 to #21 - spetsnaztm

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

I don't see why we should be ashamed. They're ******* themselves up, and the only thing we did was take back Crimea and support the Eastern Ukrainians in their attempt to secede from a government that doesn't represent their views, and brutalizes it's own people.

Ironic that the country which had a war with it's mother country over the same reasons now tries to shut down another country that's trying to do the same, all in the name of weakening Russia (unofficially, but obviously).

#24 to #23 - bizengaust

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

whether or not they are ******* themselves up is not our concern. Is it that we should be like the states always butting in where we are not needed? At least the states have the sense when to pull back. If Ukraine wants to send themselves into the crater of the earth they can. It is not our place to intrude unless they ask us to.

#25 to #24 - spetsnaztm

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

They pull back and leave behind **** worse than when they first arrived there. Look at Iraq, for example.

And we aren't even butting in. You don't hear about troops in Ukraine. They even pulled back the temporary law that gave the military permission to go into Ukraine.
Europe is the stage for a pissing contest at the moment, with Ukraine having their own trouble and Russia getting blamed for it.

#26 to #25 - bizengaust

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

it is still not right. We freed Ukraine and they need to stay freed and they need to figure out how to live on their own. Any country that is newly independent will have it's troubles as they aren't used to the sudden change. So long they where part of Russia and now they are on their own. We gave them that right and now they have to live with the results of their actions.
Yes it is horrid that people have to suffer but it is worse if we suddenly cease control and tell them how they are supposed to live again. We cannot control every country even if we think we can. We should worry about Russia first and others second because lord knows we have a ******** of our own issues.

#27 to #26 - spetsnaztm

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

And you think that a country that could potentially end up being a staging area for NATO is NOT in one of Russia's interests?
I'm not saying that Russia needs to go in and take over the whole goddamned region, it'd be more trouble for us, but I am saying that pressure needs to be applied from both sides in order to prevent the wholesale killing of civilians in Eastern Ukraine.

#28 to #27 - bizengaust

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/06/2014) [-]

I agree that helping is ok but the rate we are going we are just going to take the whole country into our hold and end up with a whole new soviet union again.

#43 to #28 - spetsnaztm

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(07/07/2014) [-]

I disagree. The Russian Government knows that if we were to absorb any former-soviet country, there would most likely be an armed conflict with support from the rest of Europe, as well as the problem of dealing with rebels and terrorists.

They are not stupid, although that's what everyone else seems to think.