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#85 - anonymous (07/17/2013) [-]
I have these relatives who until recently we all though were Dutch but my aunt is really into genealogy and she found out they actually lived in Germany until right before WWII. My great grandpa was that ******* close to being a nazi.
User avatar #124 to #85 - theshadowed (07/17/2013) [-]
Well, now, as the Nazis were in control for about a decade pre-WW2
User avatar #109 to #85 - alhemicar (07/17/2013) [-]
My grand uncle was a legit SS soldier, conscripted thanks to the king.
My great grandfather was a "Ustaša" soldier, a quisling force in Yugoslavia, but in this case he was just defending his home from "Četnici", another quisling force : P. Figures, he found his sister's head cut off by četniks.
My other great grandfather was in a very special force, called "Avdaga's legion". It was independent and kept my hometown safe from Četniks, but Tito considered them quislings too so he punished the town. Now there's a memorial commemorating the "liberation" of the town, but all natives call it the occupation.
User avatar #91 to #85 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
Not everyone in Germany was a Nazi. In fact, only about a third of the population were registered party members. And only party members fought the war as nazis. The regular German military was known as the Wehrmacht, which were regular folks who were either drafted or signed up and were just fighting for the security of Germany.
#96 to #91 - gladiuss (07/17/2013) [-]
Essentially untrue.

The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty to Adolf Hitler, 2 August 1934

"I swear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall render unconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times be prepared to give my life for this oath."

Any officer of the Wehrmacht that refused to swear this oath was imprisoned. Any Non-Commissioned officer or enlisted soldier refusing to swear the oath was stripped of rank and given the most demeaning and punitive duty that could be devised.

The Civil service had to swear a similar oath: Service oath for public servants

I swear: I will be faithful and obedient to the leader of the German empire and people, Adolf Hitler, to observe the law, and to conscientiously fulfil my official duties, so help me God!

Apologists for Hitleritte Germany abound, but their arguments are frail at best and never stand up to the scrutiny of in depth examination.
User avatar #98 to #96 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
Except that oath doesn't proclaim any affiliation to the Nazi party whatsoever. It states that the Wehrmacht serve the leader of Germany and it's people. You didn't have to be a Nazi to join.

Trying to claim that every man in the German military was guilty of being angry Hitler loving fanatics is just a plain ignoring of historical facts. There was a time when a great deal of people supported Hitler, but his popularity plummeted later in the war, at which time many people fought because they felt obligated to defend Germany, no matter who started the war.
#110 to #98 - gladiuss (07/17/2013) [-]
Never said anything about being a Nazi. Said you had to be Loyal, personally to Adolph Hitler. But if you weren't a Nazi you did not receive benefit of government sanctioned contracts or privileges. Members of the Wehrmacht were not allowed to officially affiliate with any political party, so technically NO members of the Wehrmacht were Nazis. The Waffen SS WERE Nazis but the WSS was not technically part of the national army, but were instead an arm OF the Nazi party.

You could not be a member of the military unless you were loyal and obedient to Hitler. Hitler WAS in any defining respect, the ultimate representative of the Nazi Party, which was the ultimate manifestation of the national socialists that Hitler rode to power. Most of the people of Germany were, if not members of the Nazi party, at least in favor of Hitler, and the Nazi platform of Imperial German greatness, Nationalistic sovereignty and "Germany for Germans." If Hitler and his cabal did not have the overwhelming support of the vast majority of the German populace, he would have been little if anything more than a loud, charismatic statesman instead of a well loved dictatorial leader whom his nation followed, willingly into utter destruction.


#111 to #110 - gladiuss (07/17/2013) [-]
Take off the "you" at the end there. Not sure what that was....
#97 to #96 - danruaul (07/17/2013) [-]
I think a subset of their arguments for the third reich are frail, but others -- such as the value to Germans of the public works, and the rationalization of throwing off constrictive treaty conditions -- have a very reasonable basis.
User avatar #95 to #91 - shadowhorn (07/17/2013) [-]
The Wehrmacht was just the infantry, and included party members. Most were officers. Wehrmacht translates to: War Machine.
User avatar #104 to #95 - alhemicar (07/17/2013) [-]
*literally Battle Force, wich means Armed Forces.
User avatar #99 to #95 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
Everything I was taught, and everything I look up says that the Wehrmacht was a blanket term for the German armed forces :p Although, even so, the other branches still included a majority of non party members who were very often draftees.
User avatar #100 to #99 - shadowhorn (07/17/2013) [-]
I spent some time on google just now and I would have to concur with you on this one. What I can find says that the Wehrmacht was the whole army yeah.
User avatar #101 to #100 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
Not a problem. I had to go look it up to make sure, as the information was a little less than fresh in my brain.

My main point was Nazis=German, but German=/= Nazis. People are really good at ignoring this.
User avatar #102 to #101 - shadowhorn (07/17/2013) [-]
No I agree with you on that one too of course. All kinds of Germans who didn't approve of Hitler's regime, and all kinds that got brainwashed but never became nazis.
User avatar #105 to #102 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
Did you ever read "The Book Thief"? I didn't really like how many poor decisions the main character made, and I think reading from a soldier's point of view would be more interesting, but I still really liked how the story was through the eyes of an average German person at that time.
User avatar #106 to #105 - shadowhorn (07/17/2013) [-]
I never have, no. I'll look into it though.
User avatar #107 to #106 - tombombadil (07/17/2013) [-]
I think it's still pretty popular, should be relatively easy to find.
#136 to #107 - gladiuss (07/18/2013) [-]
From what I understand, The Wehrmacht was the landforces The Luftwaffe, the airforce. The navy was called the Kreigsmarine.

The Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine are the same today, but the Wehrmacht is now called the 'Landwehr."
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