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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#3 - jojord (06/20/2013) [-]
Imagine being a car dealer and all your cars are still there but none is buying yours since they all just copied them and in essence you are stealing from the car dealer because you withheld him from making money from the car he rightfully owned. And in the end car sales would not make enough money to keep up the costs of fabricating cars. So in the end cars, and thus the car dealers, will be "extinct"
#437 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
more along the lines of imagine being a car manufacture and no one buys your cars because when you make a new car everyone immediately already has one I give no fucks if gamestop goes out of business because distribution isn't needed
#433 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
I don't see what the problem here is. We could copy food, cars, houses, water, people, etc. There would be no need to work. World hunger would be solved and shit.
User avatar #458 to #433 - ruebezahl (06/21/2013) [-]
Sure. If you don't need anyone to actually make the first "version" of the food that you want to copy, then this works. But if every now and then, someone needs to actually produce a new loaf of bread that you want to copy, then you have to make sure that this person actually gets paid. If everyone just says "Why pay for bread that I can just copy?", then you'll end up having a big problem.

In the same way, if you will be happy with copying Skyrim again and again and again for the next 100 years without ever expecting anyone to make a new game, then well, please go ahead. Then piracy is definitely the right way to go.
#428 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
ye but now everyone got free cars jk;P
#426 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
But if my Steam acount gets banned, Steam takes away all my virtual copies. If piracy is stealing, then surely what Steam does is stealing aswell. Incase of piracy the owner still has access to his stuff, i dont.

(hypothetical situation, i didnt actually get banned, but suppose)
#425 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
To be honest, I think you're looking at it wrong.
Imagine being a car dealer and you have an eternal amount of cars to sell without any extra cost to the car dealer, he just had to pay for the first one. Even though he has eternal cars now and can basically give them away for free, he chooses to sell it for top price.
#389 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
so....communism?
User avatar #372 to #3 - buttinspecter (06/21/2013) [-]
Except enough people are actually buying cars to keep him from going bankrupt and even make huge profits.
#366 to #3 - Ilubeitup (06/21/2013) [-]
Good, They're assholes anyway.
#345 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
but you can replicate replicated cars.
#339 to #3 - derpyderpderp (06/21/2013) [-]
www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/02/03/you-will-never-kill-piracy-and-piracy-will-never-kill-you/

Just read that article and you can see that if the "industry" is already outdated and that pirating is good. Especially in the long run of destroying the industry that makes you pay triple the amount you should be paying just because they want a rock to pop out of the screen.
#326 to #3 - icefall (06/21/2013) [-]
Problem with that, and the entertainment companies is that they are assuming that those people that get it for free are part of their demand.

By definition demand is: "people who want/need a product and are willing to pay for it". If they pirate it, that simply means that they are not in the demand, thus the car dealer would have not gotten the money anyways. They received money for the car they sold, which was in their demand.

Something I will say: the whole "indie bands" argument is irrelevant and fallacious. Technology advances and the old method to profit out disks is simply outdated. This does not mean that indie groups have no other means to become popular and profit. Nowadays people can advertise their music for free through stuff like youtube, much better than recording a disk and expect some random hipster to buy it.
User avatar #321 to #3 - tiltaz (06/21/2013) [-]
Sounds like communism,
It wasnt that bad you know...
User avatar #315 to #3 - kandazz (06/21/2013) [-]
OH! You're white knighting! I get that image now! You're clever.
#286 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
Your logic is invalid. To copy the car you would have to put in about as much effort or cost as to buy it or make it yourself. A car cannot be copied with the push of a button so you can't hold music or movies or software (which are basically just information) to the same level as a car.

Besides even if it was possible to miraculously copy things like a car that way, I think we'd all be better off, doncha think? Replicators make capitalism irrelevant, except for the guy making replicators.
#285 to #3 - theblondefetus (06/21/2013) [-]
It's still not theft though man, nothing's being taken. I literally don't know how the post could be any clearer...it's not theft, it's piracy. Both are crimes, both generally aren't cool, but they have different names for a reason.

Piracy isn't stealing, period.
#209 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
Don't bother arguing with these kind of people, their logic is relentless.
User avatar #180 to #3 - TarnRazor ONLINE (06/21/2013) [-]
My man. You just described Capitalism.
#174 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
if we can copy cars that easily then we as a society need to have a serious overhaul on business infrastructure. dont blame technology.
#172 to #3 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
Except, ya know, musicians and shit are still wiping their asses with hundred dollar bills...
User avatar #463 to #172 - ruebezahl (06/21/2013) [-]
This is the reason why I blame the music press for piracy. Because the kids only see those rich musicians with all their bling-bling, big cars, etc. on TV and in the press, so they think "Oooooh, those musicians are soooo rich! I can pirate all I want, they still have enough money." when in fact, this is only true for the top 0.1%.
#438 to #172 - butiloveu ONLINE (06/21/2013) [-]
And glover studio was insolvent,
even if they brought one of the best games on the market...

Sometimes IT hits the small studios or the indie projects.

And some just don't care
User avatar #294 to #172 - aerosol (06/21/2013) [-]
Well, some of them are.
User avatar #177 to #172 - gammajk (06/21/2013) [-]
Yeah, the ones that are already millionaires. What about your average indie band?
User avatar #182 to #177 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
How many indie bands do you see actually up for download on torrent sites?

Gotta be popular before you get noticed enough to be worth pirating, to enough people.
User avatar #429 to #182 - iridium (06/21/2013) [-]
Except that's absolute bullshit because there are a fuckton of bands who don't make much money off of music that have their stuff scattered across the pirate bay. Fact is you only need 1 person with the files to upload them and torrent them.
User avatar #183 to #182 - gammajk (06/21/2013) [-]
A lot. There are entire websites dedicating to providing free downloads of music of a specific genre, to a specific taste or of a specific niche.
Pirating and file sharing doesn't cost money. You don't need the files you're sharing to be "worth pirating".
User avatar #185 to #183 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
I cant run out, start a shit band, play a few shows and make a CD, then suddenly start being pirated....

Shit doesnt work like that.
User avatar #184 to #183 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
Again, you have to be popular enough to even be pirated in the first place... meaning youre PROBABLY making money, as it is...
User avatar #186 to #184 - gammajk (06/21/2013) [-]
Where exactly are you getting that from? No, there is no requirement at all to "be popular to be pirated".
User avatar #188 to #186 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
Its simple... If you're good, you'll get noticed and get recognition... (or if youre just hilariously bad)

If youre no fuckin good, who's gonna pirate you in the first place?
User avatar #192 to #188 - gammajk (06/21/2013) [-]
Because good bands will ALWAYS get recognized, right? Good bands will always be in the mainstream over shitty ones, right?
User avatar #230 to #192 - RaptorJesus (06/21/2013) [-]
Youre taking shit way too literally... and entirely ignoring the point im trying to make...
User avatar #318 to #230 - gammajk (06/21/2013) [-]
If you don't want me to take what you're saying literally, then stop making shitty half-assed metaphors. State your point.
#280 to #230 - fuckyosixtyminutes (06/21/2013) [-]
The point you're trying to make is that rich people are less entitled to have their property rights (including intellectual property rights) protected, and that's childish petty bullshit.
User avatar #430 to #280 - iridium (06/21/2013) [-]
On top of that, he's not even right with his points.

I can find some of the most obscure bands I know on the Pirate Bay, bands that I know don't make hardly anything. The argument that something which is "good" is what's being torrented is also blatant bullshit because there are way too many good bands for them to all be popular enough to sell a shit ton. And they can't sell a shit ton partly because people just pirate them anyway!
#170 to #3 - bulbakip (06/21/2013) [-]
If its possible to keep money from being counterfeited relatively well, it's possible to keep cars (or anything else) from being counterfeited. ya just gotta think outside the box.

Fashion industry doesn't have intellectual property and they have figured out a way of letting customers know their products are genuine by using analogous techniques to preventing the counterfeiting of money.

TL;DR: Fashion industry doesn't have intellectual property. Customers still know a Louis Vuitton purse is a Louis Vuitton purse and not a cheap knock-off because of the label.
#152 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
Also during the 1800s or so in Prussia (Germany) there was no intellectual property whatsoever and it was one of if not the greatest periods and areas for music in history. Intellectual property is stupid. Imagine if they gave football coaches intellectual property over their plays. The team that invented the forward pass a hundred years ago would be undefeated and everyone else would suck. Intellectual property makes the economy suck like it would if it were implemented in football.
#150 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
So your point is that withholding money from someone is theft? Or doing something that causes their property to lose value? We had better not invent new computers because they are better than old ones and then no one buys old ones and the computer shop goes out of business. Also no new technology. These conclusions stem from your premise which is illogical.
#142 to #3 - yuvesh ONLINE (06/21/2013) [-]
I FUCKING LOVE WHITE KNIGHT CHRONICLES
I FUCKING LOVE WHITE KNIGHT CHRONICLES
#130 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
where is that pic from?
User avatar #207 to #130 - aeros (06/21/2013) [-]
White Knight Chronicles
#124 to #3 - mrloki (06/21/2013) [-]
**mrloki rolled a random image posted in comment #4915132 at My Little Pony fanfiction, backgrounds, songs, lyrics, and GIFs. ** if anything can be pirated (therefor copied for a very low or no cost at all) it means companies should sell them cheap, very very cheap. Why is that ? because we don't agree with their profit, or at least with their profit margin.

If one company makes cars and sell them for 30,000 dollars, and we can pirate it for 250 bucks, this means this company needs to reduce it's cost or start selling pirated cars itself.

this is why cars aren't adequate example, music, on the other hand, is. If you pirate music, it's because you don't want to give money to an industry that have giant profit margin. When I can download full albums for free on the net, it means that their cost for making it needs to be lowered so that they can sell their albums for 5 bucks or so.

If full music albums were sold for 5 bucks a lot more people would buy it instead of downloading it illegally. Same thing with games, yes it does have a big cost to make, but it can't be sold for a huge price, otherwise piracy becomes the best solution.

I live in Brazil, games here cost from 90 to 120 reais, around 45 to 60 dollars equivalent ( pc games ), the playstation 3 is being sold for 1.100 - around 550 dollars, it's not really something that kids can afford. So yeah, I believe that piracy can only be solved by selling it for a very very low cost.
#243 to #124 - jazzyietheferret (06/21/2013) [-]
The thing is, kids shouldn't be the ones buying things. Unless they save up their money like I did when I was younger. I didn't have mommy go grab me the Playstation when it came out, It came out and I wanted it. You know what I did? I cut neighbors lawns and did shit other people didn't want to do. 4 months later, I bought my Playstation and 2 games.
#475 to #243 - mrloki (06/21/2013) [-]
**mrloki rolled a random image posted in comment #109 at Things that everyone can agree with ** that may be true if you live on the united states or on rich european countries. That does NOT apply to Brazil. First we can't legally hire anyone below age 16, we can't and we don't give them jobs or tasks for them to do and earn money with that, it's not our culture. Second, we don't usually have lawns, but when people have, they hire a company to cut their lawns 2 times a week and they pay around 220 reais (110 dollars) that means around 14 dollars for a qualified guy to cut your lawn, water your plants and use his own machinery (since it's also not common for every house to have a lawnmower or other items like that).

Our minimum wage is R$ 763,14 that about 382 dollars a month for 40 hours a week (8 hour a day) job. Putting together the huge price of imported stuff like video games, a kid would need to put together the wage he receives for 3 months to buy a playstation 3 with no games - and that is if he doesn't have any cost with living nor anything like that. A kid between 16 and 19 with no college or university diploma can not earn more than that unless he sells drugs, prostitutes himself or mug people.

My point here is that video games are way to expensive in my country for people not to pirate it, if any company wants to get this market, it needs to reduce the prices urgently !
#476 to #475 - jazzyietheferret (06/21/2013) [-]
I understand that completely. Although 3 months really isn't a LONG time for something you want. It actually would instill good habits of saving for something you want.
#477 to #476 - mrloki (06/21/2013) [-]
**mrloki rolled a random image posted in comment #107863 at Shin Anime Social Board ** 3 months, 8 hours a day, for a playstation 3, while having to depend on your parents for food, clothing, shelter ... yeah, I don't see that . I'd rather get a playstation for christmas and pirate the games with my pc rather then spending money I can barely use to eat and live with games.

you may believe that "good habits" are worth not putting your kid in school (no way any kid can work 8 hours a day and be in school) but I can't agree with that, ever!
#478 to #477 - jazzyietheferret (06/21/2013) [-]
Hmm, I guess it's just a difference of where we live. I make decisions on where I am and how things are here, and you do the same. No reason to argue any further over something that is different because of cultural discrepancies.
#129 to #124 - mrloki (06/21/2013) [-]
**mrloki rolled a random image posted in comment #424210 at Pokemon ** just found out that the ps4 is coming to my country for 1.948 reais - around 974 dollars ... that is really expensive, so I hope ps4 gets pirate games real soon!
#114 to #3 - anonymous (06/21/2013) [-]
This nigga really just say music would become extinct? Cuz we've never had music without a music industry right?
User avatar #87 to #3 - uzbekistan (06/21/2013) [-]
Yeah that's what should happen but the film industry actually made it good throughout the recession, My guess is that alot of people are paying for movies and not alot are pirated them. (I'm not saying piracy is good I'm just saying currently piracy isn't affecting the film industry alot)
User avatar #55 to #3 - ningyoaijin (06/20/2013) [-]
There's no downside for any party if someone decides they don't want to spend money on something, then get it for free without removing anything from its original owner.
User avatar #36 to #3 - sayyeh (06/20/2013) [-]
I'm not disagreeing with you but the car dealer example is kind of a bad one. In the theoretical universe you proposed we have the ability to copy cars in the first place. This raises the question as to why we would give a shit about fabrication costs in the first place or even the existence of car dealers. A better example would be to just use the point of view of a game developer or something. Because in the end they would no long be able to create new games so even though you have an endless supply of games its all just the same game.
#41 to #36 - jojord (06/20/2013) [-]
We would be stuck with the same old brand/type of car for forever because none would put the money and/or time in the development of a new one
User avatar #42 to #41 - sayyeh (06/20/2013) [-]
Agreed, but the usefulness of the car would remain the same. you would just copy another after yours had been broken. Granted there would be no innovation you would still be able to drive. Relating to the video game developer instance you would have the same game forever and eventually get bored assuming people lose interest in things as fast as they do.
User avatar #18 to #3 - mmajunkie (06/20/2013) [-]
OR it would drive the cost of cars back down to a reasonable amount, instead of $30,000 for a decent vehicle.
User avatar #74 to #18 - traelos (06/20/2013) [-]
It would drive the price of cars up fucktard.

The price of a car is set based on design and manufacturing costs, which remain fairly static.

Just because people are pirating cars doesn't mean it costs any less to make one, and since less are selling that means they need to push the price up per car to cover the same costs.
#75 to #74 - mmajunkie (06/20/2013) [-]
Do you know the actual cost of making a vehicle? No, you don't.... The more competition a company has, the lower cost goes....If a company is struggling to sell a product, they will put out 'sales' or lower the price.... fucktard.

Lrn2economics
#106 to #75 - traelos (06/21/2013) [-]
The more competition a company has the higher quality product it sells, costs may go down, but only so far as to leave a profit margin.

So lets say the price to manufacture a car was $300,000,000 development cost per year plus $10,000 per car,, That would mean P = (C-10,000)x - 300,000,000 where P = Profit, C = cost per car, and X = amount of cars sold.
So obviously the price can't fall below $10,000 or else each car sold would cost money.

But you need to also remember that x does not reach infinity. The function is limited to 0<= x <= 14,200,000 (Being the amount of cars sold per year in the U.S., remember that this number assumes that they hold 100% of the market share, which they don't)

So 300,000,000 development cost divided by 14,200,000 maximum sales plus 10,000 manufacturing cost, equals 10,021 minimum price to break even.

Now lets cut that maximum down to 5% of what it was, which means that 1 in 20 cars on the road in the U.S. would be that car (still a vast overestimation)

Now we have 300,000,000 divided by 710,000 which comes out to 422 dollars so its 10,422

So that car should only be selling for $11,000 right? We did the math like educated people and that's still a really low number. We totally lrnd2economics right?
Wrong.

Now lets try the number of sales for an actual $30,000 car, the Acura ILX which pushed about 12,000 units in 2012. That number would come out to 25,000

So that means that the Acura ILX would need to cost at least $25,000 or else they would lose money with the enterprise.

So now lets say that they lose 20% of their sales to piracy, could they afford to lower their prices to still not compete in the market, or would that simply bankrupt them?

12,000 * .8 = 9,600 sales. 300,000,000 divided by 9,600 is 31,250. Plus 10,000 is $41,250. So with piracy you can either pay $41,250 for a $30,000 car or watch them stop making it completely.

Piracy drives prices up. lrn2economics shithead.
#107 to #106 - mmajunkie (06/21/2013) [-]
You lost me when you started thinking that car manufacturers make the bulk of their money on sales, and not service/financing. Do you think it's coincidental that cheaper cars sell far more units than luxury cars? Look how Hyundai started out... What in the holy fuck are you even talking about? Car manufacturers completely close down shops after a few years when the tax breaks end... they could flip a cheaper plant in a few months, and completely revamp their entire operation overnight.

You obviously don't understand supply and demand then the supplier is no longer in control.
User avatar #110 to #107 - traelos (06/21/2013) [-]
You were supposed to realize that cars were a metaphor for video games.
#115 to #110 - mmajunkie (06/21/2013) [-]
When you talk about something like video games, my point becomes even MORE clear.

Look at the amount of free games at your disposal due to the larger corporations drowning out competition with sheer budget and glory. Sure, most of them suck... but a lot are awesome, and make their money off in-game purchasing and ads.

Radio is headed in the same direction... Podcasts and Satellite Radio killed talk shows and most radio budgets. All due to the start of piracy.

So now we have free gaming and free 'radio'... all because of piracy.
User avatar #121 to #115 - traelos (06/21/2013) [-]
To start, there are like 4 good freeware games, and none of them are technology pushing.

What you described were F2P MMO's, and they represent a small, and shitty, portion of the gaming industry, a part of the industry that is not affected by piracy (Even subscription MMO's aren't pirated very often)

I'd like you to list 5 good freeware games, at least 2 of them must be current gen in technology and none may be an MMO.

And your radio comparison is insane. Satellite radio is not piracy by any means, it's just a method of broadening your customer base. They are still offering the same service, with the same costs, as local radio was. Well, you can buy a subscription to a radio service I guess, that's not the same cost, it's just trading listening to advertisements for cash.

That's like saying piracy is good because people bought less books after the T.V. was invented.
User avatar #132 to #121 - mmajunkie (06/21/2013) [-]
You're thinking about it from the wrong angle... I can't type it so you can understand. Piracy leads to less units sold, which leads to changes... end of conversation.
#9 to #3 - kuci (06/20/2013) [-]
because the publishers and developers are earning so little these days. Heck even making indie games can get you rich.

Big publishers could do with some piracy.
User avatar #24 to #9 - organiclead (06/20/2013) [-]
Indies can get you rich. There's about ten a year out of thousands of games that are successful.

And "they make more money than me so I deserve to steal their stuff" is a pretty shitty argument for stealing as well as piracy. That's like saying that hobo down the lane should be allowed to take your car just because you make more than him.
#6 to #3 - anonymous (06/20/2013) [-]
But we wouldn't need the car dealers if we could copy the cars!
User avatar #7 to #6 - sarhon (06/20/2013) [-]
We wouldn't have any cars if someone wasn't paid to make them.
#12 to #7 - anonymous (06/20/2013) [-]
or we would have great cars because who ever was making 'em didn't do it for money.
User avatar #25 to #12 - organiclead (06/20/2013) [-]
So you'd like to build your own car?
User avatar #13 to #12 - sarhon (06/20/2013) [-]
This isn't like making music, it takes teams of people to make a successful car.


And plus, how the hell else are going to eat?
#65 to #13 - anonymous (06/20/2013) [-]
By 3D printing food.
#4 to #3 - anonymous (06/20/2013) [-]
oh no, what a shame
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