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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#17 - captainreposty (05/25/2013) [-]
Anyone has the right to attack and ridicule an idea; and that's all a religion is: an idea.
Attacking someone because of their race is, however, racism.

The thing with religion is, and especially Islam, that those who have been indoctrinated now believe they are of the same race.

So either Islam, which forces its believes to either convert the world or kill them, is THE most racist thing going, or attacking it is not racist.
I believe that is isn't racist to call every single Islamic preacher innately evil, on account that they are telling children that non-Muslims and women are inherently inferior to themselves, and they must be converted or killed.
That seems to me to be pretty damn evil.

The fact that they enforce their views that women are inherently inferior and thus should not receive the same education or the same voting rights, or even the right to be seen in public, on their citizens is a very strong evil indeed.

But we must not forget about Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism.
Hinduism is based on the view that peasants are inherenty inferior and therefore must do all the work for the elite class. Does that seem to imply that all people are born free and equal?
Christianity, the original (may I remind everyone that as soon as you alter any small part of a religion, it instantly proves that it is not a true religion, for how can you pick and choose the laws that a God has prescribed to you?), declares that no woman shall exert authority over any man, and that no man may talk to a woman on her period.
Does that seem to imply that all people are born free and equal?

We must save those who are indoctrinated before they turn into extremists/priests,etc. For then we allow them to spread their messages of hate and difference.

Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
User avatar #59 to #17 - awesomenessdefined (05/25/2013) [-]
I'm not even going to start with this, but Islam doesn't even cover voting at all, and it gives women all the same rights except to be leaders.
#114 to #59 - captainreposty (05/25/2013) [-]
Please don't make me go into it, but the very notion of equality implies that all are born equal. By removing that ability from a woman, simply because she is a woman, clearly indicates towards inequality.

I have admitted I was wrong where it was due, and I think the same should be accepted of thou.
User avatar #51 to #17 - myrtille (05/25/2013) [-]
religion =/= race
#109 to #51 - captainreposty (05/25/2013) [-]
(Please read before replying).
User avatar #110 to #109 - myrtille (05/25/2013) [-]
this post has nothing to do with religion
#112 to #110 - captainreposty (05/25/2013) [-]
You used the very word "religion" in your comment.

"goldenglimmer" provided a very hard-hitting response, which gave me a considerable amount of things to ponder and include in my daily repertoire of thought.

You on the other hand clearly did not take the time to read two paragraphs. Either that, or you read it and realised that your argument was incorrect.

At least I had the balls to admit I was wrong.
User avatar #116 to #112 - myrtille (05/25/2013) [-]
what the hell are you talking about
i am just saying that this post had nothing to do with religion
i don't want to comment on it because i know jack shit about islam, i just don't care
the point is that you brought something up that's totally off topic and then get butthurt when people don't wanna hear it
#139 to #116 - captainreposty (05/26/2013) [-]
If you read the fucking comment, and read the fucking picture you'd see why the two are related.
Fuck me.
User avatar #140 to #139 - myrtille (05/26/2013) [-]
what i'm saying is that outside of your comment there is no relation
"It's not okay to be racist but it's okay to criticize religion"
it's like saying "i don't believe in ghosts but it's okay to like bananas"
cool, they still have nothing to do with each other outside the context of what you said.
#141 to #140 - captainreposty (05/26/2013) [-]
I think you're actually supporting my argument, how did this happen? Haha.
I'm getting at the same point. The point being that we shouldn't view the two as the same, because they're not the same.
But anyone who attacks Islam now, especially in the UK, gets labelled a racists or an "Islamophobe", which is totally wrong.
User avatar #142 to #141 - myrtille (05/26/2013) [-]
You are impossible to reason with, just nevermind.
User avatar #23 to #17 - goldenglimmer (05/25/2013) [-]
Although I've read through a lot of your recent commentary, I have refrained from responding. This is, to be frank, mostly because the ideas that your arguments stem from are boringly predictable and unoriginal (thus rendering a potential discussion thoroughly fruitless), but also because I simply find them unappealing to confront. Why? Well, I speak frankly again, but it is blatantly obvious that you have a very shallow understanding of not only religion, but also the dynamics of the world itself. You have peered into the zeitgeist, and in your self-proclaimed enlightenment, embraced it, like so many others. I don't know you, and therefore I cannot accurately make the assessment I am about to make, but based on previous experience I have found that it is supremely difficult to debate with someone who has already asserted themselves intellectually and morally superior to defenders of ideas or philosophies they know next to nothing about. Good ol' ignorance and arrogance; a lethal combination.

Now, I don't want to come across as sage-like, but I had to get that in the clear. I know others feel the same as I do, which is why you, and many like you, have gone unchallenged. Both here on FJ, and in other forums where open discourse is the norm.

First off, this is hardly the content to post anti-religious, pseudo-philosophical bullcrap, and being that it's totally unrelated, your arguments become contrived and pretentious, making it quite difficult for me to not question your motives.

Secondly, there are certain aspects of your admittedly well articulated argument that are self-defeating. You speak of justice, equality and free thinking, and yet you vehemently condemn those who follow a different mindset than you do. You deliberately dismiss the fact that a priest and an extremist are two different things, you believe every Islamic preacher to be innately evil, all at the same time speaking of salvation for those who are lost from your path; your ideas.
User avatar #24 to #23 - goldenglimmer (05/25/2013) [-]
Listen, I can agree that there are destructive philosophies that cultivate a horrible human nature, restrict character development and stagnate society, after all, we are man, and collectively we are all but the sum of our ideas. Therefore, our ideas define us, and without these ideas we would fall back to our natural state; the godless state.

I am a philosophical Catholic/practical Agnostic, so before you dismiss me as a conniving Christian who wants to enslave your independent, free-thinking mind that has so bravely broken the oppressive shackles of 'religion', know that I have no other agenda then a genuine thirst for the truth. A thirst, I suspect, will never be quenched, because like all beliefs, mine is inspired by the idea of something bigger than myself. So is yours, because saying there is no God is as big as believing there is one. I do none, but if I had to choose, I would choose the latter, just on a hunch.

I digress. Do not misunderstand me, I don't defend all religion. I defend human nature, and the human tendency to yearn for answers - answers to the real questions, the ones that are unfortunately (or maybe not) unanswerable. Your philosophy is the only philosophy that strives to kill this innately human thing. Its answer to almost every existential question is simply, "no", and I believe, truly I do, that this creates nihilism, arrogance and apathy.

I could present to you a few intellectual alternatives to your approach towards religion, but I don't want to turn this into an essay. Let me just say this: before you so readily attack that which you so indignantly condemn, read something else than secular breakdowns of the most shallow aspects of the old philosophies. Read Chesterton, Lewis, Jefferson and early American literature, and British literature. You will probably be surprised by what these unfettered, Christian minds have been able to conceive, and postulate. Really, you will.
#106 to #24 - captainreposty (05/25/2013) [-]
Thank you friend.
You are the first person to confront my ideas with a rational counter-argument.
Obviously I am yearning for equality and true freedom (I don't know how you put italics...), but as there is no clear path (yet) to achieving this true peace on earth there was always be conflict and confrontation.
I am slowly learning to tolerate those who hold different beliefs.
I know that my mind became dark, very dark, at one point, with concern to Jews and Muslims. But those beliefs were motivated by emotion.
With respect to the Jewish question, I discovered that the Federal Reserve controls the entirety of the American economy. With Islam, in regard to how it enforces males to look upon females as an inherently inferior species, I was appalled.

I am always looking to broaden my mind, and I believe all people, no matter what their race, are equal.
But you must understand that I do not view "Jews/Muslims" as a race. For that implies they are born with these ideas. It is physically impossible for a child to be born with the belief in God, but they are taught of his existence.
I can prove so by referencing an eskimo:

"If we did not know of God, and Jesus, would we go to hell?"

"No."

"Then why did you tell us?"

I hope you can give me some more feedback, as this will significantly help me pursue my goal of global equality.
Please let me reiterate. I am only trying to achieve true equality for everysingle human being on this planet. I am only trying to destroy the class system, which would ensure this global equality. I am advocating for redistribution of wealth.


Think about this:
The Big-Bang created everything (in our known universe). Ergo, we have all come from the same, once singular, particle.
The only thing that makes us unique is our conscience.
I don't know where I can go with this thought, but it seems promising, what's your opinion?
User avatar #143 to #106 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
The ideals you yearn for are noble, and are shared by many men in many cultures, so you are far from alone in the battle for mankind, and the betterment of our species as a whole. In fact, I would say that this is (for good reason) the ultimate goal of every thinking human being aspiring to a brighter future. This means that hastily dismissing everyone who doesn't follow your mindset, be it a Christian or a Jew, is completely unjustified, and in the end this will undermine your own goal, because you are condemning those who work towards the same one as yourself.

As stated previously, I do believe there are certain philosophies that we should strive to weed out of the global society. For instance, I believe Islam is a destructive and pernicious religion; a tool for those who seek absolute power, and an asset to anyone desiring control. This is how it has played out earlier; this is how it is playing out today. That said, some of the best neighbors I have ever had personally were Muslims. My point here is that the philosophy doesn't completely define the person, although it does take part in the forming of one (in varying degrees).

Now, this bright future you mentioned is beautiful, if not mildly Utopian. However, you are going in way over your head. This kind of radical change does not happen overnight. In nuclear physics, there is a phenomenon known as "critical mass". This is the minimum amount of reactive material required to, for instance, detonate an atomic bomb. The same phenomenon is observed in society. To make a major change, a certain amount of people have to work towards this change and if they are persistent enough, they will achieve it, and there will be a societal paradigm shift. What society needs is to reach critical mass in its amount of clear-headed individuals willing to work for a better world.

This is my genuine belief.
#149 to #143 - captainreposty (05/26/2013) [-]
I agree with you on most of those points mate.
With regards to philosophy making the individual, but not defining them, you could not have been more right.
With regards to Islam, you are correct, since it began, or rather, since it split after the original prophet died, it has always claimed that it is a sacred right to kill all those who do not worship their God.
However, and this is the quite tricky thing, and I will most likely dedicate my dissertation to it, is that people are innately good, and due to religious dogmatism that has been passed down for centuries, the individual does not recognize any longer that it was they, themselves who decided whether an act or a judgement was morally good or evil.
That is why modern religions have been constantly changing, and very slowly adapting to modern times. The Church used to say that Africans were innately inferior to Europeans, they now, obviously, have altered their stance. The Church once prosecuted all those who said the earth revolved around the sun, and not vice-versa. Now it has changed its stance.

This can be viewed in both a positive and negative light. The positive light is that it shows that the 'heads' of Churches are, after all human, and made human errors, which lays the first bricks towards enlightenment.
This is because priests, as messengers of God, are passing on all of Gods knowledge to his people. And where do they get their knowledge of God? Via personal interactions? No, but by reading his words - the words he apparently literally said.
This gives us two conclusions;
1. God cannot be real, for if he was real, then how did he not know these facts that us mere mortals found out by ourselves? And all the priests are doing, as holy delegates of the Divine, is passing on his message, so they obviously couldn't of known any better, so those who began the religion must have, by process of reason, invented this "God" on order to consolidate power and dominance for themselves.
2.
#150 to #149 - captainreposty (05/26/2013) [-]
*
2. Because of this, those who are claiming to be his messengers are truly evil people, taking advantage of a people that have sworn loyalty to their creation. And because they have been claiming to be his messenger for so long, they have built up a sizable influence in their society, such to the extent, that they can prevent people from marrying whomever they desire simply by saying it is against their Gods wishes.

So, the main thing to take away is; people do good things for good reasons. It's an innate characteristic of, at least 95% of all humans (most crime is caused by circumstance, but there are some people who truly are innately evil). You don't need to pay reverence to an institution and allow its leaders to become elites in your society, claiming to know the moral highground, when they've caused centuries of oppression.

And, and this is something I learned today. By having many different factions of religion, the world has become seperated, divided, hateful, violent, and so much more.
Can I just ask you about your knowledge of the history of religion? I've just recently looked into it, and it's kind of amazing the diversity that divine thoughts have been able to manifest themselves as, driving people to do beautiful and repugnant acts simultaneously.
#151 to #150 - learned (05/26/2013) [-]
there's a theory that religion was used as a tool of motivation by ancient leaders, to get the slaves and poor working or to get items from the gullible to "sacrifice" or donate(example: the pope with a golden staff), but then it kinda turned into a fad, so yeah....
User avatar #144 to #143 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
I don’t mean to be nitpicky, but “race” isn’t defined by ideas at all. It is simply a way of describing a person’s ethnical background, and nothing more. I am sure you know this, but the way you worded yourself in your second paragraph suggested you had a strange conviction about what race really is.

Also, in your first paragraph, you bring up a relevant controversial Islamic standpoint, but you choose to frame it as women being “an inherently inferior species [to men]”, but women and men are the same species, my friend. They aren’t different creatures, just the opposite sex. I agree with your point though, women are treated unfairly in many Muslim societies, and this is largely because of the philosophical grounding they have to support the systematic oppression of women. However, women in Islam are not necessarily “inferior”, they simply have different roles (although the Koran’s explanation of this is disgustingly easy to abuse in practice, which is what we observe today).

I have already mentioned my personal goal: to seek truth. I believe that in addition to our physical universe, there is a moral universe that includes all of us in it. I despise the relativistic sophistry that permeates our culture today, as I find that it fosters the worst kind of people. There are certain unequivocal truths in the moral universe, as there are physical truths in the physical universe, and I strive to find them (although I probably never will). Truly, I do, and I think we are all, in varying degrees, searching for the Truth. The very existence of the search itself disproves every relativist notion, because it forces one to admit that there is truth worth searching for. The diligent sophists have to grit their teeth and deny themselves the search, and end up looking like Monk’s Scream on the inside, for they are denying themselves the drink that quenches a spiritual thirst.
User avatar #145 to #144 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
Regarding the metaphysical, and the idea of divine creator, I try to be humble. I, often in vain, try to grasp the nature of the universe by studying it. Physics, chemistry, history, philosophy... I stare into what seems to be the cosmic blueprint, and I am completely overwhelmed by the darkness that surrounds us, and overjoyed by the light we represent simply by being. We exist! We thwart the abyss every day, in every breath, and in every word. We can think, and love, and dream. We can experience these things, the most real things in the world, the things that have no physical presence in our realm, but have immense power over it nonetheless. If our minds aren’t divinely inspired; if we truly have no divine spark, then towards what do we work? If love is nothing more than a chemical response in the brain, then what is love worth? Without the concept of God, I can’t help but feel helpless. All that I am, all that I have worked for, all I have thought, and loved, and believed, is in the grand scheme of things… nothing. For I shall become dust, and dust I shall remain for the rest of eternity. As time, whatever time is, passes, I will be forgotten, and everything I am will be nothing but a silent whisper in history; an invisible thread in the tapestry of life. Is this all we are? A ship without a course, lost forever at sea?

I choose to stand for that which I believe cultivates the best human. I stand for the virtues described in Christianity, because I seek truth, and because I seek the best future for all. I do what I believe is right, and do my best to remain humble. I hold onto Christian thought, for here the ultimate virtues are humility, and love. If there is one thing I can be certain of in this life, it is that I know nothing, and that love is the only thing worth fighting for.
User avatar #146 to #145 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
We may not be born with our religious predispositions, but we are born with a powerful inner yearning. If that is not a testament to the divine, then I don’t know what it is.

After all, religion is simply a reflection of the search we are all part of.
User avatar #147 to #146 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
I’m sorry if this became long, but I am trying to reach out to you, just like, perhaps, God is reaching out to us all. We are restricted by time and space, but we are bound together in spirit. Flesh and blood is only a single side to an n-sided die, so who are we to say what we are?

I suspect we believe different things politically/economically. I am not a fan of redistribution, but I can completely understand its appeal to the idealist, and I cannot condemn anyone for what most often motivates them to advocate it as a valid economic solution. This however, is a discussion for another time.

You claim to be a seeker of truth. If this is the case, then you are also a wanderer. You wander among the thoughts and convictions of those who surround you now, and of those who came before. You wander the roads walked by many, and look for details they may have missed. You look to the light, to the torches of those who are ahead of you, and you hold up your own to lead the way for those behind you. This is all part of our collective movement towards a greater understanding of the universe, and it is one of the noblest aspects of human nature. If you really are on an earnest search for truth, and wish to broaden your horizons, then we are brothers, for so do I. As your brother, I can give you this advice: be humble, and strive to defeat your own demons. I think everyone, at one point or another, reaches the conclusion that humility is invaluable, because humility grants insight into oneself. Without insight into oneself, the insight you think you have in others is clouded, and warped by your own arrogance.
User avatar #148 to #147 - goldenglimmer (05/26/2013) [-]
I have now imparted all the information I am capable of imparting. I don’t know if it was helpful, I don’t even know if it’s right, I just know that it has coincided with my understanding of reality this far, and that it is not completely my own. I stand on the shoulders of giants, as we all do, and look towards the place where we can finally rest from our long walk on the road of life.
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