Right in the feels. Feels for gorilla consilla. did you know? Michael, a gorilla who was taught sign language, described watching his mother die.. Unfortunately all these heart-wrenching stories are taken grossly out of proportion. To this day there has never been a successful case of gorillas being taught tagsN
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> hey anon, wanna give your opinion?
asd
#7 - honestchap
Reply +89 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Unfortunately all these heart-wrenching stories are taken grossly out of proportion. To this day there has never been a successful case of gorillas being taught sign language to the extent where they can actually use it to effectively 'talk' to one.

Gorillas and other primates use a gesture-based system of communication, but communication and language are two entirely different things. Language is used creatively, and hence we can place different sounds and words in a string in order to form a meaning that has never been expressed before, a good example came from none other than Mr Stephen Fry:

'Hold the newsreader's nose squarely, waiter, or friendly milk will countermand my trousers'

Nor are primates other than ourselves able to use syntax - the rules and parameters that denote the meaning, e.g.:

'The dog ate the man'
'The man ate the dog'

The words are identical, but the order has changed so that the meaning of the sentence changes drastically.

The examples of primates being able to communicate with humans is largely down to pure imitation. An example of this is Koko, a gorilla who 'said' that she wanted to cuddle a cat, but in fact the scientists had used a leading question that Koko imitated immediately afterwards.

The example above claims that the gorilla described the sight of his mother dying, but all this needed to have been was a scientist explaining that his mother died through the signs 'MICHAEL MOTHER' 'DIE' 'SAD' (it should be noted that I do not know which signs Michael was taught, so this is improvised). The scientists would also be upset themselves, and gorillas are able to read human emotions, so Michael could simply have said 'SAD' 'DIE', which the scientists finds moving, and may start to weep, to which Michael has associated with the sign for 'CRY', so he is very likely to sign this and then cry himself.

In short, this is unfortunately highly exaggerated - no gorilla can communicate that effectively, and this upsets me.
#11 to #7 - misteryman
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
some chimps have combined "words" they new to describe novel experiences. For example a chimpanzee who knew the words for pipe and food created a novel expression for tobacco - calling it "pipe food". Obviously not rocket science but it certainly is an interesting idea that merits further examination imho.
#18 to #7 - anon id: 18e44e5c
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
There was one Chimpanzee, who's name i think was Washoe , who didn't know the sign for Swan, so simply called it a Water-Bird... that shows understanding and creativity. Though this is a chimpanzee and not a gorilla
#19 to #7 - sparkieemae
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(05/07/2013) [-]
User avatar #21 to #19 - sparkieemae
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(05/07/2013) [-]
Didn't realize this link was already posted..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWxCM6llL60

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdACUfI6nA0


User avatar #53 to #7 - niedzielan
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Bitch, you've never heard about Kanzi?
You need to do some research.
http://www.holah.co.uk/study-detail.php?slug=savagerumbaugh
#78 to #53 - honestchap
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/08/2013) [-]
Kanzi was a bonobo who used a lexigram, that's not even close to sign language.   
   
Kanzi comes up so many times in this field, and it always boils down to 'yes, he's clever, but not as clever as we'd hoped'.
Kanzi was a bonobo who used a lexigram, that's not even close to sign language.

Kanzi comes up so many times in this field, and it always boils down to 'yes, he's clever, but not as clever as we'd hoped'.
User avatar #29 to #7 - cheeselol
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
******* YES.

at this very moment i am revising psychology which includes a study done by gardner and garnder on a chimp called washoe, i knew this would come in hand.
Kanzi, a bonobo, was taught using lexigrams from his mother and was able to grasp the rules of syntax.
User avatar #38 to #29 - BluFlynn
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Kanzi and Mulika seemed to have a slight understanding of rules and orders of words yeah, I'm learning that for psychology too :)
#48 to #7 - LordSweatpants
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Hmm...

I KNOW OF YOUR PLOT KNUCKLE-WALKER!

Good argument, but you are obviously an intelligent gorilla, hoping to move focus away from your species in the hopes we will not discover whatever plan you're working on; a plan which shall surely be NEFARIOUS.

I will have none of that sir, or is it simian, thus I bid you farewell.
User avatar #9 to #7 - MurphyUK
Reply +8 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
What about koko the Gorrilia? She seems to understand

www.youtube.com/watch?v=w81EnyTAUBs
User avatar #10 to #9 - jefglv
Reply +3 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
He mentioned Koko....
User avatar #12 to #10 - bostonbruins
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
I may be wrong but I think the question was sarcasm.
User avatar #13 to #12 - jefglv
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
I can never tell. They should really implement a symbol for sarcasm.
User avatar #16 to #15 - jefglv
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
huh....
User avatar #14 to #13 - bostonbruins
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Indeed.
#24 to #7 - mattdoggy
Reply +10 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
I have to disagree with you their sir. I believe Gorillas, although primitive and lacking the cognitive intricacies that are so prized by humans for a measure of intelligence, can in some ways communicate well enough to express their different feelings and ideas without prompting or simple mimicry. I cite several cases with Koko, seeing as she is the golden child of the signing gorilla world.
My first point would be her kitten "All Ball". Koko had picked the kitten out and named it all by herself due to the fact that the kitten was balled up and had no tail. Without any prompting the name was brought forward. Another naming example would be Koko's parrot friend named "Devil-Tooth" who was named without any prompting either.
A second case to take note of would be the interactions between eh gorillas via sign language without any caretakers in the room. Many controlled experiments showed the gorillas cooperating together to complete puzzle tasks with the use of sign language. In few instances the gorillas have communicated concepts such as empathy and compassion without handlers presence. These cases are rare, due to the fact that Gorillas do not sign for no reason and only use it if there is a serious need to.
My final point would be how Koko had blatantly lied to her handlers. When Koko had ripped a sink out of the wall and thrown it across the room and was confronted about it, she lied and blamed it on a kitten. No where in their conversation was the kitten brought up or prompted.

I do agree with you though that the ability of the animals to communicate has been greatly exaggerated through people meaning well but being ill informed on the subject. We do need to curb the idea that they have the full range we do, and need to understand they have a 4 to 5 year old level
#30 - cheeselol
Reply +52 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
washoe was the original chimp to learn american sign language

One of Washoe's caretakers was pregnant and missed work for many weeks after she miscarried. Roger Fouts recounts the following situation:
"People who should be there for her and aren't are often given the cold shoulder--her way of informing them that she's miffed at them. Washoe greeted Kat [the caretaker] in just this way when she finally returned to work with the chimps. Kat made her apologies to Washoe, then decided to tell her the truth, signing "MY BABY DIED." Washoe stared at her, then looked down. She finally peered into Kat's eyes again and carefully signed "CRY", touching her cheek and drawing her finger down the path a tear would make on a human. (Chimpanzees don't shed tears.) Kat later remarked that one sign told her more about Washoe and her mental capabilities than all her longer, grammatically perfect sentences.
#62 to #30 - anon id: 2fb4723b
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
so many feels *sobs*
#73 to #30 - icametocomment
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
God. *******. Dammit.
God. *******. Dammit.
#76 to #30 - redunicorn
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(05/07/2013) [-]
#77 to #30 - Tyranitar
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(05/07/2013) [-]
#63 to #30 - weefee
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(05/07/2013) [-]
Comment Picture
#71 to #30 - angelmatvey
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(05/07/2013) [-]
Comment Picture
#32 to #30 - atticusspc
Reply +14 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
User avatar #4 - slapchoppin
Reply +30 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
damn Michael

what the ****
#20 - mattdoggy
Reply +14 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Micheal was a friend of the Famous Koko the gorilla. They had been best friends for 25 years since they were very little. When Micheal died Koko could only stand by and watch as rescuers tried desperately to revive him with cpr. When they told Koko about his death later she pretended not to have heard them and looked away. When they told her again she signed the words "Sad, cry, sad" and "hurt, bad, frown". She went straight to her room and started to cry deeply. That night and many nights after she asked her caregivers to leave the lights on for her because she was scared and upset. Several different times she asked the caregivers about "lip suck, suck lip" and tried to push on her chest. They later realized that she was trying to understand the CPR they were using to try and save Micheal. When they let Koko grieve by going into his room she quickly sprang around looking for him. Very often she would ask for him and where he was, pretending that he was still alive somewhere. She spent several days in a nest made out of his covers surrounded by his things taking deep smells of his blankets to get his scent. Every day for months she would just sit with her chin on her chest, which is the sign of sadness for a gorilla, never looking up to her caregivers who she loved the most. She wouldn't even let out a purr when her best caregiver friends offered Koko her most favorite meal. On one occasion when Koko was crying in Micheal's room another gorilla came in and hugged Koko and sat with her. She said "this room, angel here, Koko good gorilla, angel in this room" and Koko signed "believe". They still have no idea what this means, but they know gorillas won't sign for no reason and only use it to talk to each other if it is important. Koko still will sit and look in Micheal's room from time to time, and still sleeps with some of Micheal's toys at night. They say Koko still very deeply is hurt by his loss, and still misses Micheal.
Micheal was a friend of the Famous Koko the gorilla. They had been best friends for 25 years since they were very little. When Micheal died Koko could only stand by and watch as rescuers tried desperately to revive him with cpr. When they told Koko about his death later she pretended not to have heard them and looked away. When they told her again she signed the words "Sad, cry, sad" and "hurt, bad, frown". She went straight to her room and started to cry deeply. That night and many nights after she asked her caregivers to leave the lights on for her because she was scared and upset. Several different times she asked the caregivers about "lip suck, suck lip" and tried to push on her chest. They later realized that she was trying to understand the CPR they were using to try and save Micheal. When they let Koko grieve by going into his room she quickly sprang around looking for him. Very often she would ask for him and where he was, pretending that he was still alive somewhere. She spent several days in a nest made out of his covers surrounded by his things taking deep smells of his blankets to get his scent. Every day for months she would just sit with her chin on her chest, which is the sign of sadness for a gorilla, never looking up to her caregivers who she loved the most. She wouldn't even let out a purr when her best caregiver friends offered Koko her most favorite meal. On one occasion when Koko was crying in Micheal's room another gorilla came in and hugged Koko and sat with her. She said "this room, angel here, Koko good gorilla, angel in this room" and Koko signed "believe". They still have no idea what this means, but they know gorillas won't sign for no reason and only use it to talk to each other if it is important. Koko still will sit and look in Micheal's room from time to time, and still sleeps with some of Micheal's toys at night. They say Koko still very deeply is hurt by his loss, and still misses Micheal.
#36 to #20 - anon id: 49d290f1
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Koko also had a cat that was run over and there is a video of the caretakers telling her the cat wont be around anymore, I think she named the cat 'All ball'. There is a story of the caretakers coming into her enclosure and a sink was ripped out of the wall and Koko blamed the cat!
#69 to #20 - anon id: 7a11b696
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
no animal taught to communicate via sign has ever asked a question of any form, they lack the ability to see other beings as sources of information. this is largely what separates us.
User avatar #79 to #20 - surrounded
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/08/2013) [-]
you summoned me?
User avatar #80 to #79 - summoned
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/09/2013) [-]
you summoned me?
User avatar #81 to #80 - surrounded
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/09/2013) [-]
touche salesman....
#22 to #20 - ketiw
Reply +3 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Almost got me till : "angel here" ...
User avatar #23 to #22 - mattdoggy
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
the gorillas refer to the word "angel" as good. Angel just means person who is good acting. Also i just went and rechecked myself and she said "imagine" not "believe" as in she was imagining him to still be there.
#2 - lowlifescarecrow
Reply +9 123456789123345869
(05/06/2013) [-]
That's genuinely heartbreaking.    
   
.gif somewhat related
That's genuinely heartbreaking.

.gif somewhat related
#45 - snakefire
Reply +8 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
They taught a gorilla sign language, then told it it will die someday.

It responded like this.

Science: making gorillas cry one by one.
#51 to #45 - anon id: d3557af8
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
That's from the Onion, though.
User avatar #52 to #51 - snakefire
Reply +5 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
The story is true I believe. i think the onion just made a parody about it.
#70 to #45 - anon id: 248f0105
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Actually that's onion news... which is a news parody.
#66 - kingpongthedon
Reply +5 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
Gorillas are truly amazing at learning language, this one here is responsible for the vast majority of YouTube comments.
#54 - thomasman
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
It's funny because it's true

My jimmies are rustled
#49 - blobboy
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
I looked it up.   
He actually said, "Squash meat gorilla. Mouth tooth. Cry sharp-noise loud. Bad think-trouble look-face. Cut/neck girl hole."    
How sad.
I looked it up.
He actually said, "Squash meat gorilla. Mouth tooth. Cry sharp-noise loud. Bad think-trouble look-face. Cut/neck girl hole."
How sad.
#27 - billshitzing
Reply +3 123456789123345869
(05/07/2013) [-]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKsPqQ0Ycc   
   
Here's the link where Michael describes it, pretty amazing as I had no idea that gorillas could be this smart
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXKsPqQ0Ycc

Here's the link where Michael describes it, pretty amazing as I had no idea that gorillas could be this smart