they were invaded because they declared themselves independent illegally - #90286287 added by gibroner at World War III explained

#99 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

The confederate states were invaded, not sure how you blame solely them for the civil war.

#144 to #99 - gibroner

Reply-2

(04/21/2013)[-]

they were invaded because they declared themselves independent illegally

#166 to #144 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

They held a vote to seceede, completely legal at the time.

#167 to #166 - gibroner

Reply-2

(04/21/2013)[-]

my mistake they were actually invaded for attacking Fort Sumter unprovoked

#171 to #167 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Those troops were told to leave and refused, that counts as an trespassing in an enemy territory and is considered hostile behavior.

#172 to #171 - gibroner

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

well I suppose it's all a matter of perspective

#174 to #172 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Those troops were there illegally, legally the south was in the right, morally however they were ****** up.

#111 to #99 - feelythefeel

Reply+10

(04/21/2013)[-]

>an angry black man
>arguing for the confederates
I can see why you're so angry.

#115 to #111 - multimedia

Reply-1

(04/21/2013)[-]

Because he's stupid?

#114 to #111 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Not arguing for confederates, but to place the blame solely on them is silly.

#116 to #114 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Making an action knowing it will force your enemy to make a move against you under his moral/legal beliefs (and power as ******* PRESIDENT) is tantamount to shooting at them, but you don't have to waste gunpowder.

#118 to #116 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

"Force" Nothing was forced, lincoln CHOSE to invade. The Confederate states were no longer under US jurisdiction Lincoln had no power in the south.

#119 to #118 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

I hate people like you. I knew somebody who said that nobody can force you to do anything. If you're left in a position where you can do one of two things, your choice has been forced.

#123 to #119 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Lincoln could've done multiple things but chose the one that kept him the most power.

#124 to #123 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

No, he did the one thing that kept the Union together without compromising his morality.

#128 to #124 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

He still chose to start a illegal war based on his personal beliefs.

#131 to #128 - multimedia

Reply+1

(04/21/2013)[-]

And? That war ******* ended slavery. The Union would have fallen to pieces without the Confederacy, and they knew that. They were damning people to starvation and economic turmoil so they could keep their slaves, and even after it was made illegal, they made the most retarded ******* laws so they could keep their slaves without them being slaves under some retarded technicalities.

#138 to #131 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Linoln opposed blacks civil rights as much as anyone in the south. And The south left legally, after secession the confederacy was under no obligation to look after the union citizens economically or financially.

#141 to #138 - multimedia

Reply+1

(04/21/2013)[-]

Lincoln may have opposed black civil rights, but understand this: No law strictly prohibits the US from recovering seceded land. Under Executive Privilege, Lincoln had every right to invade to protect the state of the Union.

#145 to #141 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

As my original point stands, I'm not saying the south had no part in the war, my point was blaming them for the entirety of the civil war is retarded, since it was initiated by someone else.

#149 to #145 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

I don't disagree with that, but I still don't think siding with the confederacy is just...just wrong. I'm honestly almost certainly letting my morality get in the way of the facts here, but still, it's the US circa 1861. Errybody was pretty goddamn stupid and intolerant. With history, you have to look at things relatively, and the North was on the right side of the slowly developing "civil rights" movement.

#158 to #149 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

I'm not saying that the south was right for wanting slavery i'm just saying this subject isn't as black and white as people make it (pun intended)

#159 to #158 - multimedia

Reply+1

(04/21/2013)[-]

hue

#107 to #99 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

They separated from the US under the full knowledge that Lincoln wouldn't put up with that ****.

#108 to #107 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Their secession was completely legal, Lincoln got pissy and illegally sent troops to SC, which were then fired upon in defense.

#113 to #108 - multimedia

Reply-1

(04/21/2013)[-]

The Confederate secession was in no way justifiable. They did it so they could keep their slaves. Yes, there were other reasons, but the central cause was their fear that Lincoln would further prohibitions on slavery and eventually abolish it. They were already furious about the previous Act which made all states acquired from Mexico automatically free states (I believe it was overturned, but they were still pissed)

All in all, you can say "State's Rights" and other crap all you want: The South seceded because they wanted the right to keep their slaves.

#117 to #113 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

The reason for secession is irrelevant, in the US before 1869 the constitution had no laws governing the subject, according to the 10th amendment that means the states were given authority on the subject, a democratic vote was held and the secession went forward, at the time lincoln had no legal justification for interfering.

#122 to #117 - multimedia

Reply-1

(04/21/2013)[-]

Why does the legality of the invasion matter? Besides, from what I've learned, Lincoln already had loyal forces in the south during the secession, since, ya know, US forces are under the US's control, and they were fired upon first.

#127 to #122 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Because we have laws in the US? You can't just circumvent them because you lost a power struggle. And they were asked to leave, Confederate forces fired upon enemy combatants refusing to leave a sovereign nation.

#136 to #127 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

You do realize that the South did the exact same thing Lincoln did right? "Get pissy" (your words) because they lost a power struggle?

#140 to #136 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

How so? The south held a democratic vote on the subject to see what the people wanted lincoln just threw a fit.

#142 to #140 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Lincoln won the Presidency fair and square. Rather than accept that, the South decided "Nah, **** this, we're leaving the country." Then proceeded to make their own country, with blackjack and slaves.

#148 to #142 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Lincoln was elected democratically and the south left democratically, why is one okay but not the other?

#151 to #148 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Because one vote included the whole nation, and the other included just the place that wanted to leave.

#155 to #151 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

At the time of secession states were sovereign, states had every right to leave the union if the people in those states wanted to.

#163 to #155 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

jhvhjv gfcvksgvsfhgsd fkjsvdhcgdbhvfsdjbvjhsfugae uyfwyef

I think you won....

#129 to #127 - multimedia

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

The base they were on was still controlled by the US federal government. It was US soil so long as US troops were stationed there. They could have blockaded food, they could have done literally anything else, but they shoot at them.

#132 to #129 - anon id: e7511b5c

Reply0

(04/21/2013)[-]

Having a US base doesn't make it us soil unless the country lets you purchase it willingly, it's still the same today, we could be asked to leave any country today with a military base and we would have to.

#101 to #99 - bangala

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