Feels

imo, Dr Who is the best doctor

Eccleston was the person to bring back Doctor Who, an impressive feat by itself, but he also did an amazing job

Pertwee is my favorite, followed closely by Eccleston and Tennant.

THANK YOU!
FINALLY someone else who gets why Pertwee is so brilliant.
Second favorite after Matt Smith.

Why do people gotta do this? Each Doctor is different. It keeps the show dynamic. It's great. It's not just the Doctor who makes the program (seewhatididtere.jpg), it's the entire show that changes when a new Doctor comes along.

i approve of this

Why did he only have one season ._.

No

I don't have a favorite, they're all too awesome for me to choose

You are not, friend. You are not.

No, you're not. In fact, even if you said "Am I the only one who likes to shit on freshly baked pancakes while listening to Oprah on the loudest volume" you probably still will not be the only. And you asked if you're the only one that likes the most awesome Doctor Who, who we didn't get the chance of grow tired of because he got only one season.

NO, YOU ARE NOT!

Am I the only person with my exact DNA, height, name, life, age, and fetishes?

>The most awesome "Doctor Who".
He was the best Doctor IMO, but if youd really like to give him credit dont call him "Doctor Who", hes just the fucking Doctor.

the actor himself hated playing doctor who and quit. he also says he wont go back and do an episode where the three newest doctors meet because he says its a step down in his career.

Right, so the fact that he agreed to be in the 50th anniversary special with all the other living doctors is just out of spite, correct?

I don't mean to be rude, but please check your sources before making such claims. He didn't hate the role, there was just some disagreement with the writers and so forth.

i did check my sources and he did say that. he didn't want to be in any more episodes and did in fact say it would be a step back in his career.

bullshit
he had disagreement with the directors of the show, nothing more, nothing less.

He said he didnt want to be "put in a box" as an actor.

Aw hell naw you've got to be kidding me, I loved that Doctor.

I know, but I can still wish, cant I?

i know right...

I like him, but I think Tennant was better. And I wish the ninth Doctor had much more time on the show. I think Eccleston should have ended around the time Tennant did, and Tennant should be finishing up the rest of this season.

1: Davies turned the Doctor into a fucking Jesus. Because of how "special" he made Tennant (especially during the end of the run) Matt's job to slip into the role got harder and harder and harder because Davies kept throwing more and more iconic crap at Tennant. Defeating so many enemies and saving the world so many times and all the self-sacrifice and all the brooding and the people falling in love with him and... urgh... it was endless cheap tactics to make people like Tennant whereas tennant could easily have done that on his own without Davies manipulation (As evidenced in the episodes where Tennant was working under Moffat.)

2: Davies purposely sabotaged Moffat's work over and over again. The most obvious being Tennant's last line "I don't wanna go." which even Tennant hated. Compared to all the other regenerations this was just a puss out and it didn't make the audience ready to accept a new doctor.

3: Matt Smith is very much the opposite of Tennant's doctor. Whereas David was cool and suave, Matt is geeky and awkward. David was a ladies man whereas Matt is very much a fatherly figure. David was very much the main character of his run whereas with Matt it's split half'n'half between him and his companions.

4: Moffat's writing style is different (i.e. better) than Davies' style. Davies would say "Fuck Logic" and write whatever he wanted like... the titanic in space, farting aliens that wear the skins of fat humans and so on whereas Moffat focusses more on the psychological and ethical aspects of the characters. There was some of that in Davies run too but most of it was just a bi-product of Davies style and often either accidental or cliché.

The differences in writing style is pretty obvious when you compare both writers.

5: People don't like change. Some people just don't like things that are different and they find reasons to dislike new things as opposed to liking them.

(There are reasons why Classic Who fans dislike him too, but I'm out of space.)

To anyone who doesn't want to read a long post I'll shorten snowsharks
1: Fanboy rant
2: Fanboy rant
3: Good point, but doesn't really have anything to do with question
4: Fanboy rant
5: People don't like change.

Heh, maybe a little bit of rant (or a lot) squeezed through there.

But all the points are actually good and valid. The question was about why people dislike Matt Smith and frankly there are a lot of contributory factors that bleed into the equation here. A lot of which people tend not to see unless they have an understanding of how writing works and can identify the problems themselves.

Well there is only one problem here. People do like Matt, he is generally second or third most popular Doctor in any poll.
And shitting on Davies is really getting on my nerves. Truth is that most people liked his run. Had its problems? Sure. Was a mess? No.
Davies brought the Doctor back, just for that he deserves more respect then fans give him.
And second, he wrote Doctor as a sci fi and fantasy trickster arhetype, hero with a thousand faces. Bigger then life figure with secret past, uncanny monsters who defeats anyone because he is smarter then them. That kind of story telling, with all its logic faults, ties people to the show.
And that has done something BBC never managed to do before, and that is make Doctor popular, REALLY popular, outside of UK.
Now I like Moffat's writing better then Davis', but honestly I think best episodes are the ones they worked on together. "Girl in the fireplace" is example of just how great that can be.

As for Davies working alongside Moffat? Yeah, I agree. Granted, the input that he had on those episodes compared to Moffat is debatable but they were really great episodes and I always enjoy watching them.

I didn't say everyone dislikes Matt, heck I agree that most people do. I answered with a lot of the key reasons as to why some people dislike him.

However your views on Davies are interesting. I'll put aside all of the things he did off-camera to personally sabotage Moffat and the fact that I really want to punch him several times in the face/smack him with an iron bar for it.

1: He resurrected Dr. Who. He did indeed resurrect Dr. Who and he brought it back with a fiery vengeance. For that I do really thank him, however I do not respect him for it. Davies knew very little about Dr. Who and twisted the mythos and characters to suit his needs rather than allowing the story to take shape around them. This is an important factor of writing that often appears in Comic Books or any publication that goes through the hands of multiple story-writers.

2: He may have intended to write the doctor like that and at times he does suit some or all of those points, but a lot of the time the problems arose because of everything else in the story. Rose Tyler, The Slitheen, The Space-Titanic and the near-deification of the Doctor by the time Tennant's run came to an end really sabotaged that.

Davies isn't a bad writer, rather the style he employed for Dr. Who was misguided. This is evidenced in one of my favourite episodes "Midnight". Davies is good when he has limits and understands the source material. Midnight required very little in the way of anything. A simple set with a simple premise. The problem is that Davies didn't like the episode and felt it didn't work as Dr. Who. He simply didn't understand what made the series so good.

3: I love a lot of his characters. Mickey Smith, Donna Noble, Martha Jones and especially Willfred Mott. In fact, I even liked the guy from the titanic who knew nothing about earth. They were all well written. But his love went to characters like Jenny and Rose and christina who just weren't very good.

1: Yes he did change the mythos and characters, and that was a good thing. See old Doctor Who was an aged and exclusively British thing, that was interesting only to a few fans and some aging nostalgic people in GB. Davis' changes gave Doctor Who international. modern appeal that brought in young new viewers and spread Doctor Who around the world.
2: See, here you are trying to pass personal taste as a firm fact. He didn't use Doctor as YOU understand Doctor. But if you take 20 people who say he didn't "get" Doctor Who, they will all disagree on why, and what really makes Doctor Who.
For example Midnight was a dissapointing episode to me. It was 1950ies sci fi throwback (not necessarily a bad thing) that was really predictable if you read golden age sci fi, and you could have taken any Heinlein hero and put him instead of the Doctor and it would still work.
3: Again, taste. I found Donna annoying, arrogant and opinionated without any reason to be and Martha Jones too perfect. I thought Rose was a better character then both of them. And how did Jenny and Christina who got one episode each got more love then full season companions like Noble and Jones, I don't really understand.

But the point I was trying to make about Jenny and Christina was that Davies gave his love and attention to characters 'like' them.

Although, are you American? Just if so I think that may be part of why we disagree to such an extent on this matter. Being British I come from a culture where different things are valued in terms of entertainment in general to the states.

I live in states but not originally from there.
Problem with old Doctor Who is that it does not translate well. It works for Brits, and people who are already huge fans of new Doctor, but if you never saw new doctor and arent british, you'll probably find old doctor who boring and uninteresting.
That is where Davis truly showed that he is great show runner. Show runner has to think of economic aspects of the show, not just story, and he made a show that can be sold out of UK. If he didn't, we'd have seen one season or two at best, show is too expensive.

That's actually a very poignant point.

Though I would argue that Moffat does the same thing only he does it without needing to alter the Dr Who Mythos. (Or if he has altered it then I can't think of an example where he made it worse.)

Oh I agree with you that Moffat is better writer. All my favorite episodes were his.
And I just adore where he is taking the Doctor.
I'm just not sure if he would have been able to grip the audience as firmly if Davis didn't clear the path for him.
I like to see Davis as a buldozer that made a road so Moffat can drive his Rolls on it.
It wasn't always pretty, but it got the job done and now that it has a solid base, it can really shine.

Hrr... a solid point.

I still dislike Davies and the scars he left on the series with a passion but when you factor in that Moffat has spent a lot of his time as showrunner essentially cleaning up all of David's messes (like taking away memory of the Dalek Crucible and other alien invasions, bringing the Daleks back for good and turning the doctor back into an unknown by killing him) the impact of Davie's misdeeds has been massively reduced.

He's still a bad writer (at least when he doesn't set himself limits) but he was a necessary evil for all the good we currently have.

1: Well isn't that you passing off opinion as fact. The truth is that the changes he made to the mythos were to the detriment of the stories he made. A perfect example of this was Rassilon at the end of the season. Rassilon is a motherfucker you do not want to fuck with on his best of days. He once turned someone to stone with his mind whilst he was unconscious. He was also immortal. Both of these made him into possibly the most formidable opponent the Doctor ever faced onscreen. In the end of time it just hurt to see what he did to him. Similar to how Time Lord is a rank, not a species.

If you could point out some changes that were actually to the benefit of the series rather than the detriment then I'd love to actually see them because even I dislike how negative my viewpoint of him is.

2: That's actually a misnomer. There is a clear distinction to be made between quality and opinion and often people do not acknowledge that. The problem is that a lot of the things Davies did were simply not very high on the terms of 'Quality'. Like it if you want to, dislike it if you want to. That is opinion, but quality is a measurable factor.

Things like subtlety, simplicity, clarity and mystery which were rife in the classic series were what made episodes like Blink and Midnight so good whereas other episodes fail.

You may 'like' the way Davies did thing but that doesn't affect the 'quality' of the work he produced.

3: This point... I kinda have to agree with. Whereas they were all quality characters I can't fault you for disliking them. Heck, Donna got on my nerves a little too at first. But she grew on me. (And yeah, in hindsight Martha was a tad too perfect tbh.) Whereas Rose and the writing around the character is bad, I can't fault you for liking her. (Heck, I like a ton of stuff that honestly isn't very good.)

1: No, because its quantifiable quantity. While old Doctor Who couldn't find viewers outside UK to save its life (literally, it got canceled) and it became increasingly aged and kept losing viewership even IN UK (which is why it got canceled) Davis' Doctor who became a worldwide phenomenon and BBC makes up costs of production just by selling series out of UK, meaning advertisement and dvd sales are pure profit.
Beneficial changes? Making Doctor into more of a Trickster God archetype, killing off Time Lords and making him that much more unique to his universe (admitedly cheap shot, but reason its so common is that it WORKS).

2: Actually quality is kinda hard to measure. Beautiful porcelain plates are of highest quality unless you are trying to feed 100 drunk, hungry miners. For that you want metal plates that can take abuse.
Davies' work is of extremly high quality in terms of what he was trying to accomplish (well his EARLY work, last Tennant season was mediocre at best, and ending is bad). Instead of subtelty and clarity we got bigger then life and madness. Which clicks much better with more people today.
3: I think Rose worked so well for me because she is what I consider a sci fi stock character I love. An utterly ordinary person put in utterly extrordinary situation, and becoming extrordinary herself. It was her sense of fun and wonder that grounded bipolar ninth doctor and made the show work for me. Tho my favorite character was Captain Jack Harkness in the first season.

1: I refer you to the point I made in comment 127. I figure that is relevant in this case too.

2: Well, again I can't really disagree with you in any way other than your use of the word quality. I think what you're looking for is suitability. Quality is based upon measurable factors that relate to the medium that you are judging. In terms of narrative film Davies made mostly low to average quality material.

I don't deny that his tactics were good for grabbing the attention of the market though I do feel that the same effects could have been achieved by, as I stated in comment 127, Moffat. Davies did accomplish that task, but I feel he did not do it as well as others could have.

3: I see where you're coming from with Rose and the character trope is called "The Everyman" (A reference to the fact that the character is just like everyone else). You take an "Everyman" protagonist and place them on a "Heroes' Journey" and they become a different person. Luke Skywalker is a perfect example of this.

However I would argue that Rose rarely (if ever) has to suffer for her actions. Any suffering she goes through is either later invalidated or inconsequential.

E.G: She is upset on losing Christopher Eccleston. That was actually good. But it's all wiped away in a few moments after Tennant wakes up. She screw up time and gets the doctor eaten by time-monsters (let's not go into exactly why those things rape the Dr. Who mythos so thoroughly) but it is eventually her father who makes the decision to accept his fate without Rose's consent.

She continually treats Mickey like crap but gets angry when he tries to do the same to her and she never reconciles for the things she did to him, rather he just goes off and becomes a fully rounded character on his own because of the things she did to him.

In the end she even gets everything she ever wanted. Wealth, her father, her perfect man.

However, at the end of the day, good for you. It's good to like things. Wish I could. xD

number 3
that is pretty much why I like 11 over 10

Aye. Me too. Matt really sold the old man in a young man's body angle really well in everything he did. He mixed it perfectly with a dash of mad scientist and just a pinch of evil genius.

yes ^^
I didn't like how everyone was kissing David and he was like some young charming adventure hero
because then I think
ew William Hartnell is in there somewhere
the only person Matt has really kissed and not just been kissed by is River
which I am ok with because she is like the child of the TARDIS
and it is really cute when they act like an old married couple, they are like equals, unlike with Rose who was kinda just a lost puppy who was head over heels for The Doctor......and my friend would kill me if I said that because she thinks Doctor-Rose is the best thing in the history of the world

Well I'd get your friend looked at asap if that's the case. Something must be wrong with her. (Preferably by a firing squad but frankly it's that kind of poor decision making that reminds me why I'm not allowed nice things.)

On the other hand, I like River in that sense too but not because she's a child of the Tardis. It's because the love is genuine. With Rose and the Doctor it just felt like puppy love. There are these two in my class that are endlessly down one another's throats tongue-deep and sitting on each other and frankly it just seems really juvenile. The Doctor has loved people in the past like Sarah Jane and to an extent even Sylvester Mccoy had a thing for one of his companions but it was all played very subtly. It was love and not just romance.

I have to agree
the love is genuine and not just puppy with River and The Doctor

yeah her favorite companions are Donna and Rose
and I have a feeling it's mostly because of the season finales where they did that really cool thing for like 3 minutes.....so...yeah :/

I really liked Donna. She was a big help to the doctor in a lot of unusual ways because she was a pretty average person with a pretty average job that she just happened to be really good at. She had an unconventional skill-set and it was really nice to see the every-man being put into the Tardis rather than that Bimbo Rose.

The send-off to Donna's character was just a big slap in the face to all that though by turning her into half-jesus. ¬_¬ Thanks, Davies.

But my favourite companion bar none is Rory Williams. Talk about love? Yeah, he's one hell of a keeper.

I liked Donna too
but everytime she brings up her favorite companions it's always "TIME VORTEX, DOCTOR-DONNA BLAH"
I didn't like The Doctor Donna thing....I did like how she left....it was very feely

yes Rory Williams......infact all the Ponds are my favorite
Amelia was my favorite girl companion of the new series.....although I understand that is not a very popular opinion for some reason

Amy's an unusual case. She has certain traits, like Rose does, that make her unlikeable (such as running away on her Wedding Night, trying to get it on with the doctor and being... well... overly sexy at times) but the difference is that she not only suffers for her mistakes but she also learns from them.

Whilst I do feel that Amy really soaked up way too much attention in terms of her relation to the plot of the series (something that I fear is going to be reflected in our new girl) she was a genuine character who ended up as a better person by far for her time with the Doctor.

And dammit, Rory the Roman, The Last Centurian. 1000 years older than the Doctor Himself, all time spent protecting the woman he loves. That's the kind of stuff that you base your gods on and the fact that he never got turned into a massive icon just makes it all the better and exemplifies what makes Dr. Who so good. The fact that people have the ability to be great and they don't need to be deified for doing it.

I see where that is coming from
yeah....I guess she was just confused in the beginning of her first season
but then she really just forgets about The Doctor as a love interest, and she still loves Rory, which happens somewhere in the middle of the first season, but isn't really confirmed until the start of the second, then she really just views him as a hero....which leads to The God Complex episode

Aye. Personally I feel that Moffat has spent his run having to undo all of the problems with what Davies established in his run.

He basically reset planet earth's memory by removing from it all of the things like the Dalek Crucible, the Christmas Fiascos and the Cybermen invasion, then he made the doctor unknown again as opposed to bringer of death that Davies made him and with the God Complex he pretty much placed the doctor on the same level as Amy and arguably below Rory. Moffat's run is full of him cleaning up after Davies like that and I'm just glad that he's able to do it in the manner that he has.

I don't know what you mean by The God Complex response
but....uggggh
I hated all of David's Christmas episodes
why would you have so many huge event's in London for three consecutive years
when you have all of time and space to go off of
it's just.....see gif

When your show has become so predictable that the characters INSIDE the show are forced to acknowledge it (evidenced by everyone leaving london in the Titanic episode because they know crazy shit happens at Christmas) then you've made a big mistake somewhere down the line.

But on the God Complex. The Doctor sees himself as being both above and below most people. He recognises that he is one of the few, if not the only person who can do the things that he does and save the people he saves and he takes every lost life as a very personal failure to him, however he also sees all of those past failures as weights that drag him down and make him lower than his companions.

The Doctor tends to like the fact that other people place such faith and adoration in him because of the fact that he has such a low opinion of himself. He has a very weak self-esteem and so if he's left alone with his thoughts for long enough he starts to eat himself alive. He was like the Minotaur, sustaining himself through the faith and adoration of others but hating himself all of the time because of it.

He is actually a very weak character who doesn't address his own failures and accept them, rather he seeks to make up for them by doing more good deeds and helping people. Constantly running away from both his problems and himself.

In the God Complex he finally explains this to Amy and allows her to see him not as her imaginary friend, but as he is. A crazy old man with a box.

Compared to Rory who, in contrast, has such strong convictions and self-reliance that he was completely immune to the minotaur's prison. He is very self-reliant and doesn't let anything get between him and what he believes is the right thing to do.

They are in some ways opposite characters and in other ways perfect parallels.

Hence you could argue that the episode shows Rory as strong and the Doctor as weak.

oh yes!
I wasn't sure where you were going but I agree whole heartily with that statement
which is another reason why I like the 11th Doctor it portrays what you just said so well

Aye. I just hope that the 12th doctor has a little bit less angst to deal with. Y'know, more current problems rather than the problems of the past that Smith deals with.

Shake things up, y'know?

yes
but I think Smith still has this and another season left anyways
not to mention the 50th anniversary special

Aye, one more season and then the special... speaking of which... do you know much about the three greatest Time Lords?

He's my favourite, it's just people can't seem to get over David.
I didn't like David as the Doctor, to be honest. He was too human, whereas Smith really acts like an alien.

Who says no one likes him?
In 2012 poll he was voted second favorite doctor winning 26% of the vote.
For a Doctor following a really popular Doctor that's pretty much amazing. Fifth Doctor never managed to escape "Not Fourth Doctor" stigma. Even though he was really cool in himself.

have this one bro

Thanks

I love you too man.

All the homo.

my sides...my lungs...jesus.

Number 9 here

Same. I love Eccleston. He was a great doctor, even if only for one season.

My first doctor was Tennant. He is my 3rd least favourite doctor.

My favourite is Sylvester Mccoy followed by Tom Baker and then Matt Smith.

The 'first doctor is your favourite' thing is just a coincidence most of the time based around nostalgia

how can David Tennant be so low on the list he was awesome!

Well... because he was just written so poorly most of the time. Tennant is a good actor and he portrays the doctor well, but a lot of the things in his series made him really unlikeable to me.

E.G: The relationship with Rose, the preaching, the "I never would" (even though the doctor has, in the past, killed countless people because he understood the importance of decisive action.)

Not to say that all the episodes were bad. Frankly, a lot of them were pretty good, especially the times Tennant worked with Moffat. "Blink" and "The Girl in the Fireplace" remain some of my favourite episodes.

Tennant was good but even he couldn't be saved from Davies' writing and the other doctors above him just have more episodes under their belt that I really love watching.

I didn't skip nine, I've watched all episodes in order. David Tennant is by far my absolute favorite. It would be freaking amazing if he somehow returned as The Doctor.

technically, the first doctor i saw was 11... but i completely forgot i saw that episode until i watched it on netflix a few weeks ago..

i've only seen 9, 10, and 11.. .and they go in that order for me

My first was the 9th, but I prefer the 11th

I was reading all of this while listening to Roxas' Theme. Many feels were felt...

I approve of this