Really Hakim...

When your starting point is "we will push the Jews into the sea", don't expect them to play nice...

The truth must be told that the western devils are causing this.

account related.

The actions of the west are unjust, the beliefs of the east are inhumane, and everyone is wrong.

I could not agree more.

well i might take the bait but here goes nothing ...

i learned all about isreal/palesina last year and saw that both the jews and the muslims there have several reasons why they have right on that piece of soil, i remember each of them had about 5 or 6

now to make a long story short, the jews, israel, are running the show as most people know and the remaining muslims are struggling to survive. the jews there have a lot of military power, one of the strongest in the world and a lot of politcal power/influence in america and UN, which gives you an idea where it's going

You forgot the Israeli response: "We're under fire!" Then they throw ten grenades back.

What do you expect from the country that hired a Russian (or Austrian i cant remember) to devise the worlds most brutally effective fighting style.

the russians taught them a crappy 2nd or 3rd place style and kept the top style for themselves

russia would never allow israel to have #1 martial art skill, they just played nice to cover up the fact its russia selling arms to palestine

doesn't the russian army teach wing tsun?

they teach several combat doctrines

i see. When i was learning wing tsun, i came across a lot of russian army videos, that's why i was asking.

well from what ive seen, russians have several styles, including a new one where they dont even need to touch the enemy, ..they just need to make quick movements to force the other guys instinctive reactions to play against him

that's pretty damn awesome!

Which is that?

Krav maga, I think.

get your facts straight.
jewish settlers settling in lands conquered in 1967 get assaulted by palestinians living near them and then whine (as israeli civilians) to the IDF which has to protect them, even if it really doesn't want to.
a palestinian country is going to exist, and it is going to exist in the lands conquered by the IDF in the 6 day war in '67. those lands will be given back to the palestinians living in the east bank, and we all know it. 300,000 jewish nationalist (and racist as fuck) settlers (which we hate as well- those fuckers are as bad as muslim fundamentalists, just jewish) apprently don't, and they make israel look like shit. most israeli civilians are very much for the idea of a political settlement with Abas, who represents the east bank's palestinian population.
our main issue is with the hamas in Gaza, Hizballah in lebanon, and Al-qaeda local terror cells. mostly, the suicide bombings from the east bank have diminished, and ever since operation "pillar of defense" even the rocket firings have stopped.
i'm all for peace in the area, a palestinian state, and even the return of the Golan heights in exchange for peace with syria (once the fighting stops and Assad is taken down), but shit won't happen any time soon, because of our asshole government.

educate yourself by talking to actual israelis, or reading a few of the agendas of some political parties in israel like "meretz" (מרץ), before you spout shit like this again. yes, the IDF has been forced to use sometimes lethal force against palestinian civilians when they began assaulting israeli civilans, or were sneaking in through israeli borders, or while searching for terror cells, but we still take more care with the rights of even our worst enemies than any other country out there.
also, i'm pissed about the whole palestinian settlement getting forcefully evacuated a few days ago. it was clearly in the B area of the east bank, not the C area.
next time, do your homework, please.

oh look, someone defending Israel. Good luck o_o

I'll just be sitting by here throwing my two cents in edgewise and trying to keep you out of the red...

not defending israel, my country has been fucking up big time for the past several decades.
i'm defending israelis, and the idea that the state of israel has a right to exist.
there are simply no words to express the fury i feel when people who live half a world away, and have done nothing to truly educate themselves, judge both me, my people, and my country's right to exist.
i'm pro-palestinian in the sense that i want a palestinian state to exist, but with right wing nutjobs like Bennet or Bibi in charge, i get to watch as any chance of lasting peace with the palestinians gets washed away.
also, i'm pissed at how we fucked up our diplomatic relations with turkey.
negotiations brokered by turkey, egypt, france and the UK would have been the only chance at a final, stable political settlement regarding the lands taken in '67. that's gone too.
i want peace, and i don't want my kids to go to the army to fight a war they never wanted, for reasons they don't know, against people they don't hate.
i'm an israeli citizen reaching out for peace, and i hope someone reaches me the fuck back on this website, because this whole feud is really getting old.

That is still a defense of Israel in my eyes.

Defending Israel doesn't automatically mean approving of everything Israel does. It does mean that you are there to tell the truth when others are lying. That you are there to show that not everyone agrees with the actions of the government. That you can paint this country that is constantly being compared to the Nazis as a country that is worth keeping around warts and all...

for the record

all the lands in the middle east spent almost 1000 years under the ottoman empire with the vast majority religion of islamic/muslim, then after WW1, the ottoman empire collapsed and split into several countries....britain claimed a part of this as british mandate land

after WW2, britain marked out an area of this islam/muslim land and gave it to the jews as israel....obviously upsetting the muslim/islamics because they see it as their peoples land, and want it back

all in all, if the land had been kept universally arabic with jews as just another religious group on that land, there might have been no problem, but since its been a specific religion forced onyl the land of another religion, its britian's fault for sparking up this religion conflict in that region

and for its part, usa has shown how hypocritical it is, by supporting jewish religious takeover of the land but on the same note, back in 1993 when mormons in waco texas tried to peacefully split part of texas off as its own country, the CIA attacked the mormons camp, executed them all and wrote them up as terrorists
in this case, usa is helping jews with their split land and labelling the native palestinians as the terrorists

fact is, european jews were moving to israel ever since 1896 with the intention of creating a home for themselves here.
the Phil comitee of '33 under the british mandate ruled 80% of israel goes towards a palestinian state, and 20% towards a jewish one.
the U.N decision number 181 in '47 ruled otherwise, because of the great influx of jews to israel of WWII and the creation of many jewish settlements on private ground, purchased lawfully from land owners in damascus or istanbul.
the reason why palestinians feel as though israel took their land is because the jews who bought this land before israel was formed paid some land owner who these palestinian farmers never met in their lives, and not from the actual people living on the land. this was a bad move, and we are still paying for it. once again, i agree, except for the whole fanatic rambling bit in your comment.

i dont mean to sound fanatical, im just annoyed that despite facts thrown in people's faces, they still sing the same 'poor little israel' song because thats what the system taught them to do

one way of putting things...Israel is NOT the vatican....the vatican is a nation of catholic religion formed inside italy which was already vastly catholic...so thus a religious nation formed from the regional majority

Israel on the other hand has always been a minority in the middle east, and thus the muslims/islamics are upset at the minority been given preferential treatment over them

israel was given this coddling because of teh cold war.
both the U.S.A and the soviet union wanted influence on the new state which was being born at the time, and so it recieved plentiful financial aid, and military equipment and training. this caused it to become a far greater power in the area, and become a bit of a bully in all motters of state, finance, and even culture.
israel has both a strong army, and a strong economy, no way to change that now. we can only try to change the way our country is run from the inside in hopes of reaching a more peaceful form of leadership, and even peace treaties with all the nations surrounding us.
i hope to one day witness complete israeli-palestinian cooperation in both military matters and in economic matters. that way, both peoples will thrive and live contently.

well all in all, jew, muslim, islamic....their all just arabs, and its stupid they fight over religion, its just an adult version of kids fighting over whose imaginary friend is better

the three religions used to live together okay before britain stepped in and said 'this land over here is just for jews"

the holocaust wasnt as bad as jews claim it was, their people did get rounded up and killed, but not anywhere near as many died as they claim, and they refuse to allow anyone to actually investigate it to make sure

also, they keep whining about it to maintain public sympathy, having the world in a constant state of pity for the jews as a cover to make people ignore all their atrocities they commit against palestine and planning for other countries

That's one thing I hate.
Like, there have so many religions persecuted and shit, yet the Jews are the only ones still complaining.
The fucking Cathars were near completely wiped out but you don't see them complaining.

also,m the religions that the judeo-christians labelled 'pagan' like the religions surrounding the norse, greek and egyptian gods.....they were largely massacred by the judeos to force others to convert, there still are pagans today but they dont bitch about genocide

They are doing a racial cleansing. And little by little they're taking Palestinian land.

it's almost exactly the opposite you fucking idiot

wait, you think I was referring to the Palestinians doing the cleansing/taking land or Israel?

no, israel has a legitimate country that they won even with the palestinians attacking innocent civilians and trying to massacre EVERY JEW IN ISRAEL
the fact that everyone thinks that they're such victims today is total bullshit, they want to kill every last israeli living in the country and they do that by attacking innocent people, just like in the past

Okay, although I tend to side with you here, I have to acknowledge that the circumstances of Israel's foundation as a sovereign state were unjust to the Palestinians. The Jews at the time made up about 1/3 of the population and were concentrated in only a few cities, yet they got control of about 1/2 the land including several large Arab-majority cities. The Arabs living there were expelled or fled from their homes.
A lot of the blame has to go to the UN and the British, because they had control of the immigration policies and partition plan despite having no real stake in or ties to the region. I sympathize with the Jews' search for a homeland, but they should not have sought it in a place that was already inhabited by others.

there were jews in israel when the jews got there, there always have been
israel has always been a homeland to the jewish people

Didn't Joshua make a genocide to conquer Canaan?

There were far more Arabs than Jews there before the Jewish immigration explosion. That land was as much a home to the Arabs as it was to the Jews living there, and that's a lot more important than any ancestral ties, which both groups have. Just because the ancient Hebrews lived there thousands of years ago doesn't mean their descendants in other parts of the world have a claim to the territory.

yeah, it does

Why? Do you think that gives you the right to kick out the people currently living there?

Actually, no. Israel attacks schools, hospitals and kills a lot of children. They have extended their territory little by little. Palestine is no angel either, but they're being exterminated, so maybe they're desperate. Also, the people in both Israel and Palestine want the war to end. There's been a lot of Israel citizens speaking against their government war crimes.

actually, yes. israel attacks schools and hospitals because the hamas make there MILITARY BASES there. to prevent the unnecessary loss of life, israel TELLS the palestinian people that there's gonna be a strike there. only the hamas actively to kill children. that's not what israel is about.
Second of all, they're not being exterminated, you fucking idiot, their population is at it's biggest since the 1940's, thanks to israelis who actually MADE A COUNTRY where there was just desert beforehand.
Get your facts straight, fuckwad

Of course there's gonna be more people than in the 40's Palestinians have a huge birth rate.

That's what the news said?

the news is unbelievably biased against israel, it's sad to what a level it gets to

Where do you live?

israel

Hey, I don't know. You live there, maybe you've got a better view of what's going on. The information I have is that The US protects Israel because it is a powerful ally to help reshape the middle east (which is what's going on right now) and Israel is portrayed as "defending their country" while right now they're the ones pushing forward and leaving a huge wake of collateral damage (because of the number of schools, hospitals and homes destroyed, some say it's intentional) and if you look at the territory they control you can see clearly that they have expanded a lot.

are you kidding? the whole "settlement" thing is nonsense, israel gave back ALL of gaza in 2005 with the hope that that would bring peace, but what happened? hamas took over, WITH the support of the palestinians, and started shooting rockets at israeli towns all the time. you don't hear about this because the world is against israel, and wants to portray us as the bad guys. instead, all you hear about are the retaliations by israel against hamas, and how much israel is terrible and just loves attacking innocent civilians.

The disengagement plan states: "Israel will hold sole control of Gaza airspace and will continue to carry out military activity in the waters of the Gaza Strip." Therefore, Israel continues to maintain exclusive control of Gaza's airspace and the territorial waters, just as it has since it occupied the Gaza Strip in 1967.

www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/control_on_air_space_and_territorial_waters

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/rally-gaza-fatah-palestine-abbas

Hamas TOOK control.

globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.mx/2006/05/post-1967-palestinian-israel i-deaths.html

globalavoidablemortality.blogspot.mx/2006/05/post-1967-palestinian-israel i-deaths.html

I don't know why it does that, just delete the space

Rockets that missed and where fucked up. While your retaliations DO make a lot of damage.

waaa waaaaa waaaaaaaaa

to those thumbing me down, have you CHECKED the conversation? I'm giving arguments and source trying to find the truth while this other guy is speaking about the intentions of ALL the palestinians as if he could know and is insulting me as he goes. That's not rational and yet I'm the one being thumbed down because my opinion doesn't match yours, wtf?

There's no difference racially between the Arabs in the Palestinian territories and the Arabs in Israel. Why aren't Israeli Arabs being "racially cleansed"?

Ok, the term I used wasn't correct. what I mean is, the more you kill Palestinians, the less there will be in the future and the easier it is to take more territory. It's strategy but it's also a war crime.

The Israelis are killing Palestinians in response to Palestinians - especially in the Gaza Strip - firing rockets at school buses and in general terrorizing the Israeli civilian population. Israel wouldn't even have occupied the territories had it not been from Arab (including Palestinian) aggression.

I don't agree with the settlement building, though.

But most of them are radical groups which the rest (of palestinians) don't support and are supported by the US and Israel intelligence agencies so they continue to attack Israel so that It can continue to occupy more territory. Their rockets don't do much damage while in response to the attack, Israel royally fucks them up the ass, but it's all part of the plan.
It's hard to back up that claim (the one that their intelligence agencies help those radical gropus) I learned that from whistleblowers and an article which said some Mossad agents had been caught pretending to be arabs. Maybe you can check for source, if not, Just stick to the premise that radical groups attack Israel and do a shitty job and then Israel responds and a lot of Palestinians, civilians and fighters, die. At least you can see that Palestinians wouldn't support them because it's a dumb-ass strategy.

Of course they're radical groups, but I don't buy that they're not supported by many Palestinians. If they didn't have support, they wouldn't have power. Hamas was democratically elected in the Gaza Strip and continues to be its government, and continues to enjoy high support in both Gaza and the West Bank.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/25/west-bank-hamas-support/1725775/

Also that the rockets don't do much damage usually (because they're badly aimed or something) isn't the point. The point is that they are fired intentionally at civilian targets. Not only that, but Hamas has bases and weapons stashes inside schools and hospitals, essentially using its own innocents as human shields, because they acknowledge that Israel values life while Hamas does not.

I don't think usatoday is a reliable source since the american media always work as propaganda when they're at war. Also, how can they show support if he uses children and his own countrymen as human shields?

This one is more recent and the fact that Hamas had to allow it to happen shows that maybe there is pressure to support Hamas.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/04/rally-gaza-fatah-palestine-abbas

Maybe those who showed their support felt or were pressured to do so

First of all, the USA is not at war with Israel or Hamas, and most mainstream American media tend to be biased against Israel, not for it.
Palestinians, especially in Gaza, often support violent resistance against Israel. Hamas uses Israel's bombings of hospitals and schools to stir up hatred of Israel, but obviously it does not stress that it puts military equipment in those civilian buildings.

As for your article - well, good, but remember that Hamas initially kicked Fatah out of Gaza after winning the election in Gaza.
And yes, it's likely that at least some of Hamas' supporters are pressured to support Hamas out of solidarity, dependence or fear. Many do feel genuine hatred for Israel, but even that is understandable. What is not acceptable is targeting Israeli civilians, which is not only despicable in itself, but also serves to prolong the conflict and justify increasingly harsh responses from Israel.
Israel's primary and given motivation for its actions against the Palestinians is defense national security. As long as Israel's security is threatened, Israel will continue to take action against the source of the threat.

the USA supports Israel and it's war, that's what I meant. And they criticize Israel for certain things but they never question the validity of their war or their actions, just the cost it has for american tax payers.
And kicking Fatah out after winning doesn't make much sense unless the elections were rigged and he feared Fatah could do something about it.
Do you think that the US and Israel with their intelligence agencies combined couldn't kill Hamas if they wanted to? it serves both of them to continue the war.

Hamas is an organization. As with al-Qaeda, you can keep killing leaders, but others will emerge and the organization will probably survive. And because Hamas is so deeply entrenched among civilians, neither Israel nor the US can just launch a major strike to take it out for fear of massive civilian casualties, which would not only be tragic in itself but would also rile up the Arab world and probably other countries as well.

Kicking out Fatah makes perfect sense, if you're an antidemocratic radical Islamist group like Hamas. You're eliminating your political adversaries and therefore ensuring that you are effectively unopposed.
Hamas didn't democratically win total control of Gaza in 2005, it won a majority of the legislative seats. Fatah still had a presence in the Palestinian government, until a conflict between the two groups caused Hamas to expel Fatah from the Gaza Strip. That's history.

Yeah, I knew that but a combination of bad english and fast typing made me forget that. So Fatah was kicked out after the civil war? not after the election?

Hamas won the majority in 2006, and expelled Fatah from Gaza in 2007 after their violent conflict.

Oh. So you support Israel?

I don't like the circumstances of Israel's foundation and I think it was unjust to the Palestinians. That's what happens when you let foreign powers dictate the fate of a region they have no stake in. I also don't think the Jews should have sought their own state in a region that was already inhabited by others. I mentioned this in some of my replies to TheAviator below.

However, at present my sympathies lie more with the Israeli cause than with the Palestinian one. Israel may use excessive force at times, but it is motivated primarily by self-defense and its actions are responses to real security threats. That is a justified motive if I ever saw one. Also, Israel is the only liberal democracy in the region and has the highest standard of living, even for the Arabs within its borders.
On the other hand, though I sympathize somewhat with the Palestinian plight, I cannot support them as long as they continue to target Israeli civilians and use human shields. It is their actions against Israel that primarily drive the conflict and necessitate Israel's actions. I guess I'm talking more about Hamas and the Gaza Strip than about the West Bank, since Fatah is not a violent extremist group (though it is weak and corrupt).

Simply put, if the Palestinians stopped fighting, eventually there would be peace. If the Israelis stopped fighting, Israel would be destroyed.

Well, as I said, I don't have the proof so just take it as a possibility. Intelligence agencies support Hamas so that he attacks Israel so that they can defend themselves and eventually occupy more territory. Or... Hamas moves people's emotions so that they support them and keeps attacking Israel as a means to stay in power, no matter how many palestinians die. I think it's the people of Palestine (also Israel) who are suffering and being abused. And I don't trust the Israeli government because of it's strong ties with the USA which is corrupt and seeks more influence and power, whatever the cost.

On the other hand, thanks for being such a rational and calm person. I learned new things and I'm glad that we had this discussion.

Still gives me a laugh.

First picture not true. Second picture, alright. Third picture captured defensively, last picture not true.

Context is also handy. Anyone can make shocking images and pander to the ignorant.

Also, Israel won't nuke Iran unless its in response to a nuclear attack. Israel does push pretty hard for air strikes of all of Iran's nuclear facilities though... Not much better, but still, not as drastic.

>Israel
>nukes
YEAS, legit

Israel has nukes o_o

and they plan to use them on the gentiles

If they did they would have by now my ignorant friend :)

why would they use it now while they already control most of the world?

"control of most of the world" as more than half of UN sanctions are placed on Israel as opposed to countries like North Korea, as the entire Middle East clambers for the opportunity to wipe it off the face of the earth, as supporting Israel becomes less and less popular...

You're really funny, bud.

That i am. but one who doesnt do proper research and only spus shit that the media spoon feeds you is pretty impressive

I trust the media about as far as I can throw it. The media is the one that spoonfeeds idiots anti-Israel rhetoric. I find my information in history textbooks and personal testimonies.

I don't think you understand what he's saying...

Dude, the guy is a nut who believes in the illuminati, of course I don't understand what he's saying :\

That's actually pictures from wikipedia, and the last picture is very true, here's more info for you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories
Israel have been threatening nuclear attack for decades, and it's well known that they are armed.
I'm not fond of commenting on posts such as this, because you Americans are so horrible pro-Jewish and we Brits are very anti-Islam, personally I'm not, but in general we are.

You seem to think you know something about the conflict, which is great, but unless you've been to these places and met the people, you can't know. I know a lot of Israeli people online, none in person sadly, but most agree that the Israelis are the aggressors, and the chance of serious attack on Iran are high.

Ar video, just because:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7tupJRSi7M

The problem is, Israel have continued to take Palestinian land for the past 60 years, which isn't allowed. Land won in war has to be given back.

Half my family lives in Israel.

Wikipedia is a peer editted database. It's not always honest and the maps need context. There were no palestinian or Jewish land distributions before 1948. All of the land was considered "British Mandate".

Land gained in defense is considered conquered by the rules of war. Though if you want to ignore that, Israel has had a policy of land for peace for years. The problem is that every time Israel gives back land, the extremists take over and use the land as a closer vantage point to fire rockets at Israel's more populous cities.

Israel is terrified of giving back more land because it doesn't want to put its civilians in the crosshairs of any more rockets, especially in their industrial center of Tel Aviv which was under threat during operation pillar of defense.

the amount of palestinians living in said lands in '46 and even in '67 is far lesser than you might think.
most of that area was settled very sparsely, and that enabled the jewish settlers to purchase a lot of this land prior to the U.N decision in '47 (the division plan) which increased the size of the jewish territory by around 15% of the area of israel.
a lot of land shall be given back to the palestinians as a part of peace concords- and this peace is coming. it's just taking its sweet time getting here.

bahahhaha this is bullshit

>2010
arabic parties growing
arabic numbers are growing
sandniggers started to invade non muslim cities
cant stand going to the nearest mall anymore
sandniggers with YOLO SWAG#### man its horrible

Typically because Israel plays the reactionary bomber. It lets countries bomb it, then responds in turn. You'd be hard pressed to find Israel launching the first strike unless the war was already declared and Israel was afraid it would lose the advantage if it waited...

It's simply because of their American support...

sadly its not support Israel has control over Americas fiances basicaly America is Israels puppet.... funny how we have been attacking allot of muslim nations lately isnt it

anti-fascist action? Probably a bullshit hippy campaign with no following meant to defame Israel for crimes it never committed...

....he says 2 months later...

Israel has commited many crimes. you just refuse to look into it.

Nope, I agree that Israel has committed crimes. Every country has committed crimes. Why should Israel be treated worse than China and Russia?

Have you Ever heard of the Rothschild family?

Yes. Are you going to elaborate on any of your points or are you just going to drop names and expect me to fill in the blanks? Rothschild was a British Baron if I remember correctly. A pretty wealthy one at that. I'm pretty sure he was one of the earlier advocates for the state of Israel, correct?

Your right one of their Family members. but your not connecting the dots on the other things the family is responsible for.

-Creation of the Illuminati
-Infiltration of the Free Masons

Oh right the conspiracy bullshit. Ya, I tend to ignore stuff that cannot be proven rationally and requires the reader to fill in blanks...

Rule of thumb. If you're telling the truth you can give an entire narrative, if you're telling a lie you give just enough information to let your reader make up whatever fantastical stories they feel like having in order to make your lie believable.

you cant expect me to do your own fucking research for you.

I can expect you to provide me with a well thought out argument instead of dropping one name, or two words.

Come on, when have you ever convinced anyone of anything by simple saying "Rothschild, Illuminati, Freemasons. Therefore, I conclude that Israel will be reincarnating satan on December 24th 2013"

actualy Israel's greatest enemy would be Enki.

So i doubt they would want him coming anywhere near them

what's so great about Enki?

I suggest you read the Sumerian Epic of creation.

So you're hedging your bets on a "God" coming in to save the day?

Well most likely someone who reached godhood will.

Well then... good luck with that...

thank you it is a fairly long path.

Sieg fucking Heil!

fuck israel

2edgy4me