Finland, fuck yeah

http://voices.yahoo.com/rehabilitation-juvenile-justice-system-3979980.html?cat= 17
law.jrank.org/pages/1936/Rehabilitation-Does-correctional-rehabilitation- work.html
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/04/jail-less-effective-community-service
usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-12-Prison-recidivism-rates-ho ld-steady.htm
http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/prison2home02/Haney.htm

Yes prisoners will have a bigger chance of making crimes after they get out than those in therapy, but while they're in they can't really do any harm. I agree that we should help criminals and not ruin their life, but I don't think we can just put them all in therapy.

I mean prison is pretty smart for the rest of the society.

Can't do this in America.
Do you know how much havoc this would cause?

People are already pissed off prisoners get health care but they don't.

It's also cheaper than sending someone to prison

True, however, do you feel people regardless of this would still rather "punishment"? Personally if somebody murdered somebody close to me, or anybody in that case, I would wish them pain and suffering. Justice.

Yes, that's very well, but the fact is still that counseling is more effective. Do you know how many repeat offenders there are in shitty prison systems? Even for minor crimes, they often go on out and perform big crimes.

Thumbed down for my opinion, oh FJ! And yeah I completely agree mate, and understand that the more effective should be the one being used. But what I'm also saying is that for some people, they need that sense of justice. That the person who took their child's life or whatever, has suffered for what they have done. I think it's a very tricky one tbh.

Point is that it is better to treat criminals good and have less criminals due to having less repeat offenders, then treating criminals bad and having more repeat offenders due to it.

If someone murdered someone close to you, would you really rather have them punished, or have them rehabilitated so they don't murder anyone else?

The people who are naturally bad simply have a serious mental illness. Those people should be kept locked up forever, but still shouldn't be treated inhumanly.

Like I said it's a very difficult one, and until you're in the situation you couldn't really say I guess. I can imagine being so filled with anger and hate all I would want is suffering for that person. Which, is probably why we still have the way.

Still you shouldn't base a legal system on raw emotion. Thinking logically about what will end up hurting the least amount of people is the best way to solve crime.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I do agree with you, but I'm just speaking on behalf of how most people see it. To me, I just think if you take a life, you don't deserve to enjoy yours. Locked up forever. Everything else, rehabilitate. (Except rape, punish, then rehab.)

Well that is how most people view it, in the US anyways.

People should also realize that crimes always happen for a reason, even if its a bad reason. You might murder someone for something that could even be considered as a valid reason.

What if you hear your friend say something about plotting to blow up a building? You see he is actually planning on doing it within hours, and he says he has explosives somewhere but won't tell you where. He even shows you his plan and tries to get you to support him. Calling the police might take a while. Killing him to stop him from doing anything is still a crime. That doesn't mean you are a bad person for doing it though.

Another reason is murdering someone out of rage, like seeing your wife cheating. That is due a burst of emotion, and you will likely feel horrible about it later. That also doesn't make you a bad person.

Or one of the most used examples is stealing bread to feed yourself or your family.

Breaking a law, even in cases of murder, doesn't necessarily mean you are a bad person

In cases of rape, which is probably one of the only crimes that never have a valid reason, you can simply castrate the person who is convicted after overwhelming evidence, then rehabilitate them. That would make it impossible for them to be a repeat offender.

Good people can still commit crimes, and that is one of the big things people forget.

the fact remains that, there are some people that aren't crazy, but just bad. like that austrian man, Josef fritzl. that's fucked up. he does not deserve to breath my air. he is essentially stealing it. that is by far more than, 'mental problems'. I don't want him living the rest of his life in some comfy therapy center for the rest of his life. I want him dead, or being ass-raped for the rest of his life by a black man name big tony.

fact

im not sure if thats gayer than dropping the soap

You are looking only at the large numbers of crime per year. 400,00 for a country like finland 11,000,000 for the United States. Now your average idiot would look at those numbers and say "Oh well America must have an awful legal system compared to these other places." Well consider the following ,Americas current population is just over 310,000,000. Finland has 5,000,000. Look at the ratio between the two not just pure numbers. Of course our crime rate is going to be higher, we have a 300 million more citizens. Not to mention the we border a major drug and human trafficking country. I live on a border state and there are hundreds of crimes committed against united states citizens by drug cartels that count towards the crime rate.

>Border a major drug and human trafficking country

Canada isn't that bad...

Those Newfoundlanders man... they fuck you up.

Crime rate doesn't mean number of criminals. If you look at, say, repeat offenders after being released from prison per 1000 people, what is generally meant by crime rate, you will find it is still much higher in the U.S. than in Finland.

I wish I could thumb you up more to make your comment more visible. It seems like no one understands this. Everyone wants to give the US a European management system when it isn't at all like the countries in Europe.

People also forget that part of the reason repeat offenses occur isn't because of what happens inside prison, but upon getting out how society treats ex-cons.

American prisons aren't disgusting... they're actually very clean and give many freedoms to prisoners. You don't get a tv in your room though.. You know what you can have though? BOOKS. LOTS AND LOTS OF BOOKS. And people say Americans are dumb.

With this kind of argument I can't understand why anyone would think Americans are dumb.

The shortage of Harry Potter books hit the prisions hard. They had to find something else to read, something there was plenty of and that no one really could give to shits about as a story.

And that's how Twilight got popular.

what the fuck have you been watching

I was watching a movie earlier today and maybe this guy saw it too. It was about a man who was falsely put in prison and they had a guy come around passing out books. Morgan Freeman was narrating it.

Life? My stepdad spent 2 years in prison for being a dumbass. Also it's not news that prisons normally have entire libraries. At least in America. It's amazing what you can learn when you get your head out of your ass and actually learn about the country you criticize.

Many things wrong with this:

1. Correlation does not imply causation. To spell that out some more, just because a country has a more lenient prison system and has a lower repeat crime rate does not mean that the prison system causes a low repeat crime rate.

2. Not all American prisons are not disgusting terrifying hellholes. Max security prisons full of murderers and rapists are disgusting terrifying hellholes, but that encompasses a very low percentage of overall inmates.

3. Justice isn't all about correcting for the better society, it is also partially about giving the victim a feeling of fairness and security.

4. Your comment was irrelevant to the post and you are just saying this to sound smart and start a shitstorm (congrats you have succeeded).

5. The US and Finland have very different cultures and ways of living. Just because it works for one country does not mean it will work for another.

1. That doesn't mean the correlation between two logically related things does not exist. Questions are made to be asked.

2. The particularly awful offenders like that are exactly the kind of person that is locked up in a prison like in OP, though. On top of the fact that many Americans get sent to the same ass-rape prison as killers and sexual criminals for far lighter actions.

3. What, so that justifies inhumane conditions that breeds hardened outlaws? The point of incarceration is to rehabilitate. To let the offender realize what he did was wrong, learn from his experience and pay a debt to society in the form of a chunk of his time on our mortal plane, not as a substitute for psychiatry.

4. Shitstorm? Every reply I've received so far is pretty well thought out. Sorry to get your panties in a bunch, whiny.

5. I agree. Which is why I can only conclude that American culture sucks.

The point of prison is not to rehabilitate, it is to punish. Many seriel killer could be fixed with a few years in a psych ward though that wouldn't be punishment now would it? Prison aren't meant to give them time to think, they are meant to break them and put the fear of prison in them so that fear will stop them from committing crimes again. And thenickel has a point, the victim or family of the victim deserves to see justice carried out. And by the way, there are many excellent prisons in america, some of the minimum security prisons are about the same as a country club.

Every possible statistic proves your point to be bullshit. You can't just use the government to beat people you don't like into a corner to the point of docility. All harsh prison treatment does is harden inmates into ruthless career criminals, thus breeding generations of one-time offenders into waves of new outlaws raising hell on the streets; this leads to harsher punishments, and the cycle continues in a downward spiral to the point where maximum security prisons are basically Soviet Gulags.

We shouldn't completely go against what is better for the sake of our nation just to make people feel better. Do we really want to live in a society where we're obsessed with petty revenge? Do you think America is the lawsuit capital of the world for nothing?

You know its easy for you to wave you're finger and condescend but something tells me you wouldn't be so quick to forgive an forget if you were the victim. Can you honestly say you wouldnt want someone to pay if they killed or raped someone you care about. And who gives a shit if they come out hardened criminials if they were already thugs, gangsters, pedofiles, killers, and rapist. Maximum security prisons are meant to be hell holes. And its not the prisons fault their hellholes. If you shove a few thousand dangerous convicts into a building things are going to go to shit. And prisons arent even that bad. In alot of poorer areas people are doing things to be purposely be sent to prison, they get cable tv, a gym, library, free food, and healthcare.

let's see some statistics

www.cracked.com/article_19489_5-terrible-ideas-that-solved-huge-global-problems.html

Oh boy... yeah you must be 12 years old. Don't reply to this.

Ergo, you have no argument. Have a nice evening!

Murder will only give you 4 years in finnish prison...

My dorm didn't look half as nice as this.

Not enough beer and pizza

The mural.

The guys in suits look very realistic. This guy should be famous.

hue

That looks nicer than me house

my dorm looks shittier o.o

There's much nicer prisons in Norway than this one, though.
I don't know if that's a good thing.

**creosote rolled a random image posted in comment #406643 at Anime & Manga ** Nah, that's just where the murderers go. Bank robbers go to the gallows.

yeah those are just for like, one night stays. say your mom and your dad got in a huge fist punching, hair pulling, bitch slapping, fight. they coulda called the cops, and both sent to jail. better be in finland when that happens.

The majority of jails aren't bad in America. I got an OWI and did 2 days in county jail for it. We had tv, a shitload of games, and pretty good food actually. The people were pretty friendly too. They're more concerned with getting out than anything else.

Ameican prison on the other hand. Fuck that.

But I believe these dorm-like prisons exist only for people who have done minor crimes, and to avoid repeat offenders. I know you just said that, but murderers etc aren't sent here, just people who have done small crimes

Nope. Feel free to watch this:

http://www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=01mTKDaKa6Q

It's a documentary about Bastoy prison in Norway. One of the inmates killed two people with a chainsaw and another one stole money from UNICEF that was meant for poor children. All in all pretty serious crimes.

Oh well, that's pretty stupid then.
What's the point in that?

Nothing. Norway is just very obsessed with human rights and stuff. We have housed a terrorist for years now who used to work for Al Queda, and has openly tried to instagate Sharia Laws in Norway. He lives off government tax money in the best hotel in the country because he needs protection after several failed assassination attempts.

Fuck you,I hate hockey

Yep, because you probably live completely isolated anyway

no, PS3 and modern consoles are not allowed because they have access to the internet. it's probably a PS2.

Upon closer inspection I have noticed It's a PS3 Slim.

You can enable parental setting and disable internet from them completely. So yeah.