Gay True Dat.

"I couldn't give a fuck if you were gay or straight or even Hispanic"

wait, what?

It was on the frontpage a while ago.

MOTHERFUCKING HISPANICS.

I don't think there would be gay pride parades and stupid shit like that if it wasn't illegal for no apparent reason. it's like 14 year olds going "420 blaze it phaggot" and shit like that. there would be no reason.

think of it more as the martin luther king jr marches

not that i agree with them, but just some perspective

I don't think he's saying his problem is with marching, just the fact that there's a lot of dancing about in shiny hotpants and stuff like that.

seems to me that he just doesnt want to explain to his sister about how some people are different. maybe he fears that seeing gay people will 'turn' her.

Ah, well I don't agree with that.

If a gay couple kiss on the street, they usually get glares from people.

A gay pride march is one day of the year that gay people can express who they are in public without scroutony. It's very confident building for a lot of people and the sight of so many people being supportive of someone who may have been bullied all their life for who they are may save them from depression or suicide.

It's one day that makes a lot of people happy. I think you can live with that.

Not all gays even like the pride marches.

I am and I hate the things. It's stupid and degrading. Thanks to them people have the impression I am a butch and I will walk around wearing leather and a rainbow flag around my neck. I wear one small rainbow triangle earring and that's all. Subtle support, I wish everybody did it.

Well, we can call people like you gay.
And all the attention seeking parade homos Faggots.
Faggot is always negative. But gay is nice.
Niel Patrick Harris is gay
And he's awesome

actually it was based on religious freedom and human values

The United States was founded on the basis of civil liberties based on enlightenment thinkers such as John Locke and so on. Also most of the founding fathers were deist and were against the country from becoming a theocracy, but they were still welcome to the people of their country of having the choice to believe in anything they want since some of them were persecuted in Great Britain before going to America. Also most of the religious phrases to God such as in god we trust is because of the use of God during certain wars especially during the Civil War where Almighty God in some form in our coins was put on the coin to imply that God was on side of the Union.

The Treaty of Tripoli was submitted to the Senate by founding father John Adams in 1796. It was unanimously ratified and had taken effect by 1797.

Article 11 of this treaty clearly states "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Quod erat demonstrandum.

if only every american could read and understand this...maybe there wouldnt be so many shitstorms.

The sad part is that I knew that and I'm Canadian.

If the issue is pressed enough it goes into the voting on the main floor of the state. If it is passed it will be an open vote to the people. The problem is it never goes past the main floor because of the politicians going against it.

Just like this past month, Maryland Floor -> Constitutional Changes on Ballots for election in Maryland -> gay Marriage

The word "Marriage" could mean more than just a religious term

Except for the fact that it doesn't, that marriage has always been a religious affair until the last like 75 years or so.

Seriously you kids need to realize that a lot of shit happened before you were born, it's commonly referred to as history, it's not just some class you take that shit actually happened, things weren't always the way they are now.

And isn't the happiness for others more important than what you believe in, especially if you believe everyone should be happy?

Hypothetically, if killing people made some one happy would that mean their happiness is more important than my belief that killing is wrong.

Your argument itself is flawed, but I think that's more because you aren't providing the qualifiers you want in place. But then when you talk belief you run the gambit of the fact that everyone believes differently.

Belief is essentially a form of religion. Thinking something is true with no real proof to back you up.

But Marriage itself, IS a religious term. And to this day is still defined as a union between a male and female (dictionary.reference.com/browse/marriage) As it has throughout all of history.

Even in the day of Sparta when Homosexual relations among the soldier citizens was common, Spartan marriage was still between a man and woman only. The reason for this is quite simple and pragmatic. Reproduction. A man and man cannot produce child, a woman and woman cannot produce children. A marriage has always been a union to form a family. To propagate the species.

Today you talk of gay marriage and think why not? But you don't realize that ALL of HUMAN HISTORY is behind us, 20,000+ years of all humans saying NO, this gay marriage concept has only been entertained in the last 50 or and it was still shouted down until the last 20, and only now in the last 5 or so does it seem to have any real support to actually become a reality.

Of course I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't have it. But with changes like these you wonder WHY NOT?

HISTORY. That's what I meant in my first post. Things are far older than you think they are. Much has happened before you. The people in charge of things today, when they were your age, being gay meant you were an outcast.

I have no doubts gay marriage will be legalized in time. And when you're as old as they are now, something else will be trying to be legal, and you'll be as against it as they are against gay marriage. And you're kids will be the ones asking "why not"?

Look, my comment to your argument before this, happiness to me is being happy without harming another person in anyway shape or form. And yes history says that (as I have agreed over and over about) marriage has been between a man and a woman under religion. Look, doesn't mean we've been saying "No" down history, we can change. Like it is saying something is impossible, but in due time, we can. And the "Why Not" thing you are talking about remember my happiness thing i said.

Remember that, when your kids are asking you the same question. And if you think about it your answer will most likely be the same as mine.

Give me any example

and also 88

Read comment 107

First off, please don't get creation into this, unless you don't mind explaining all the theories to me. And don't bring any science into this, I don't want someone explaining that everything is a living organism. Look, abortion is wrong, and I agree, and a life is a life. But it is not your child, sperm, embryo, or anything, so why invade what they want? And again going on to your "Why Not" thing, yes it has been with us for since history was recorded for humans, but like technology, we can change. And for 88, the human values thing, might as well as kick out anyone who does not believe in God. And yes this country was founded under Christian beliefs, but then wouldn't that mean we weren't meant to have Hindus, Buddists, or anyone who does not believe in God, and those freedom of religions were meant for the branches of those who believe in God?

Marriage IS a direct result of religion. Religion did marriages centuries... millennia.. before the state ever got involved in them.

I've been in a Catholic school for half my life (idk if this contributes to the conversation of religion or of your subject, and about half my life is 9, and yes I know I'm still a kid.), and yes I know my history like ceremony or practice of marriage has been derived from religions. But now, we have marriage under state, and under other things that I can't think of right now besides religion. Idk if I can say this, and someone please correct me, we have freedom of religion? If i think I know how it works?

I"m not sure what your point is. If you're referring to freedom of religion being freedom for gays to get married that's not quite the way it works.

Freedom of religion means you are free to worship any religion you want to and no one is allowed to stop you from that worship. But the religion itself decides who it will and will not marry. When I married my wife (catholic also) We had to go through sessions with the priest and another couple that had been married for several years before the church would agree to marry us. They do this because they don't want to see people divorced

The State Marriages are basically you walk in front of a judge, sign a piece of paper and you're married. It was basically something put forth by the government as a revenue generator, and not much else. And many of them lead to divorce.

To go back to your very first comment. Laws are influence by religion because religion is the origin of almost all "moral codes" that societies run on.

People do bad because they think they won't get in trouble.

Most religions push a very strong moral code, enforced by god. An all knowing all seeing entity that is beyond comprehension. Point being, if you do bad, God will make you pay.

If you look at history with the assumption that all religions are false. It's very easy to see them as the police of their times. They set laws and put in place an enforcer that could not be escaped, for the reason of making people behave.

This is why almost all laws come from religion, because they basically WERE the law when they were far more important to the world than they are today.

A very interesting fact though, if you look at recent history, crime has increased pretty much at the same rate as atheists and the decrease of the religious.

As I said, humans simply don't behave if they think they can get away with it. The more people that don't believe in an all powerful enforcer, the more crime we get.

It's less religion = law and more religion = good = law.

And going back to my first comment, I meant that if you want something done, don't run to religion to back you up because it will cause shit storms. Example:
The I don't like way: Abortion bad because God said so.
The way I prefer: Abortion bad because that is a living person in there.

Look I get what you are saying, laws basically derived from religious beliefs, and I agree. And thanks for the freedom of religion update, I've been told sooooo many view on religious freedom, and I thought about your argument before I asked about the information about religious freedom. But marriage is supposed to be (meaning spiritually) two people who are in love. So, what is love (Baby don't hurt me)? -Ignore that last question. I come from a Catholic family, in which we don't believe in gay marriage, but if it doesn't hurt us in anyway shape or form, why not? If people who believe in gay marriage are going to be punished, and you are gonna be ok, then what's the problem?

Abortion and god: Christians believe life is sacred, in a very hard core way.
No abortion because it's the killing of life. But it goes further, Masturbation is a sin because that is a life that will never be born.

Abortion is bad because a living person is in there:
Why? Who says it's bad? What proof do they have? If you kill a man, who has no one and nothing is it bad?
Yes.

Why? There's no one to mourn him, no one to care, nothing he has to take care of, so why?
Because it's wrong.

But why is it wrong?
It makes you feel bad.

Why does it make you feel bad?
Because that's how we are made.

Why are we made that way?
God.

Abortion is wrong because it kills, killing is wrong because of our aversion to it given to us by God. It's a simply matter of sources, to stop at killing being wrong is to deny where the thought of killing being wrong comes from.

If you look at animals they kill with out guilt, and some of them also mourn their dead. But those that mourn still feel no guilt at killing.

As to marriage: Why not? The simple answer is, because that's how it's always been. The long answer is more complex, involves biology, religion, disease, reproduction, mentality, demographics, population, migration, all sorts of factors. The simple matter of it is, in thousands of years it's always been no, because there have always been reasons for it to be no. Those reasons, in the face of our technology are not as powerful as they used to be, so things are changing.

oh and if you still wanna argue, I'll reply in a few hours

Dude I'm fuckin tired (pardon my language) it's like 4am here, it's almost Thanksgiving, and all that jazz. Good arguments out there. Just so everyone knows, there is no winner, only two people discussing on the internet, and a couple anon.

Op says that he in fact is a faggot himself. Although he may be trying to lie, or perhaps he even is using reverse psychology into tricking us to believe that he is in fact straight.
Screw all of the rubbish above, but how is it derogating if he says it about himself?

Because he is a faggot

True dat.

Where are you getting your facts? That's not right.

Awe man I'm sorry. Sex not marriage.

Really, it's not that it's legal to have to with a horse, it's just_ not_ illegal.

I'm sure it would become illegal in the 23 states, but it's not really a big problem in them I guess.

It's have sex with a horse, not marry and why would you need a law saying that you can't have sex with a horse, it's a horse.

Even it it religion the United States was founded as a secular country. And don't let anybody tell you differently.

I don't like gays because, i think gay buttsecks is gross.

*you´re

New Hampshire here. We were the first state to legalize it without a court order to do so. Feels good man.

....Where in Washington...?

Federal Way-ish. Used to be Seattle.

I live in Auburn:)

Haha, that's like, the sister city to Federal Way!

Yes it is:) I go to Federal Way at least once a month to go to the Gateway movie theater:) 2 bucks a movie is a pretty great deal:)

Oh, yeah. Especially on tuesdays, when it's a buck!

Hell yeah!!!

It's legal everywhere in Washington state now.

I meant where does he live. Sorry, It's 6am right now. I'm not very awake.

errywhere broda

It's technically not legal to get married anywhere in the UK. There's Civil Partnerships, but not actual marriages.

gays fight for the right to marry because even as a civil partner you have no right to make decisions for your spouse in times of need and in some cases can't make decisions for your adopted child since some places only allow one gay parent to be the legal parent.

I'm basing the comment of information within my own country.

I'll assume you're talking about the American civil partnership?
Because if so, then I can understand a fight for marriage, but I know some gays who don't want kids and still want to be married.
I can understand the other part of it too, but to be honest, that should be changed completely and not be tied into a religious paring.

Darn my american brain, I forget that not everyone lives here.

Yes I was talking about american civil partnerships sorry.

Hey, no need to apologise^^
I probably should have focused it more on the American one anyway seeing as a majority of the people on FJ would know more about it and because America seems to be where the topic is hotter.

Well what about the middle east, some people have been killed for being gay, and no one whines about that, but in the US we dont want gays to marry and suddenly we are horrible homophobia people.