a shit storm of epic proportions...

Supreme court ruled that it can't in 1869.

Funny how the ruling was based on the idea that Texas never left the Union, but President Grant had to readmit Texas to the Union. Even funnier is how Jefferson Davis was thrown in prison after the war and readied his defense for what he thought would be a court case on the status of secession, but then he was never charged because they knew he had the better case. The funniest thing though is the fact that Lincoln forced West Virginia to secede from Virginia during the civil war. Talk about irony.

that was before the civil war, afterwards texas lost that right by ratifying the amendment that took away the states power to secede.

What amendment explicitly forbids succession? Texas voluntarily joined the union if there is no law that says otherwise it would also be able to leave voluntarily. During the civil war it technically never left in the first place. (legally at least)

At the time of the Civil War it was not illegal as the ruling by Supreme Court came later in 1869 (after the war) that unilateral secession was unconstitutional.

Texas v. White... there you go. unilateral succession is impossible. The only way to leave the union is by the agreement of the rest of the states along with congress and the president (though the president is not strictly needed due to being able to be over-ruled by congress)

These matters are strictly de facto, and not as much de jure as you would believe.
If the state of Texas wants to secede from the rest, and the federation won't let them, they just do it, and to hell with the consequences. Then the US army would have to invade. That won't go down well with the rest of the world, or the Texans.

I'm not saying that it is a good idea. I'm just saying that if they want to, they are going to get it.

Well yeah the federal government would never allow Texas to leave the union by force and Texas has no ability to do it both legally and practically.

But i'd say the key thing is that most Texans have no interest in leaving the Union.

You are probably right about Texans not wanting to secede, but that is not the issue I was addressing.

If they wanted to, they could do it. In a state where there are twice as many guns as there are people (and that is discounting any army stockpiles), a very effective guerillia war could be fought. I mean, your gun laws allow private citizens to own light artillery! The federal government would have to go in by force, and then it would lose. It might win all the battles, but it will never win the war.

Leaving the union would require a majority of the population to want to leave for it to start in the first place. Assuming this majority wanted to do it the war would go nothing like iraq/afghanistan/vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan proved difficult because the U.S. was fighting only a few percent of the population so the U.S. had to be careful with it's strikes. Vietnam was only so hard because of the terrain which allowed for the enemy army to hide Texas is not like that.

Another thing to remember is that the U.S. never committed it's military in it's entirety to those conflicts as it would most likely in order to keep Texas.

Most people dont want to, even the governer would prefer we didnt, because they're scared that Texas wouldnt do very well on its own. I think we could but there would definitely be tough times.

that is true and it can also become 5 separate states if it wishes to be so

I guess that picture is appropriate since it turns out you were wrong.

It's funny too, because isn't Texas leading in a bunch of computer science fields?

I know that feel bro, living in Nacogdoches right now, attending college, where from Texas are you?

im in lewisville...its best just to thumb how you're gunna thumb cause it is clever oc...im not excited about this event AT ALL! i really hope it doesnt pass...i love texas but i wont stay if it become its own country...thats begging for a MEGA mexican invasion..in which case the state will become as bad as detroit or atlanta

No shit?! I'm in Lewisville too!

im right by the vista ridge mall i can see it from my apartment complex! that super target on hebron...yea whats up bro!

shit's weird, yo. i'm right down Hebron, by Target. i could walk to the mall.

NO SHIT HUH! you in emery bay?

nope, i'm one of the poor kids over in the Tuscany.

AND you're a brony! dude...

you too?!

i just got into the show a few days ago..but yea i can say im a fan..maybe not a brony*just yet* but a fan

you'll be very welcomed. there are plenty of bronies in town. you in school? if you go to LHS, the anime club is full of Bronies if you're looking for some.

i have been looking for some but im 20...i dont wanna chill with a bunch of highschoolers...no offense but yea...just seems wierd be 20 at a brony party with a bunch of 16 yr old...i dont wanna be wooderson...if you get the refrence

i'll be 20 in about 3 weeks myself. do you go to college? and if so, where?

yea im in school..but its internet courses....hbu?

not yet, taking some time off, trying to be less poor before i sell my soul for school. probably going to northlake.

O.o well atleast your closer to the 711...

Well everyone's making a big deal because it's now at like 75k signatures or something, but nobody takes into consideration the fact that this website literally calls for a zip code and an email address to "sign a petition," or that Texas' population is roughly 25 million people, meaning that 0.3% of our state population is for it.

there's enough people to get it noticed...not to mention the stereotypical texan who probably haven't heard about it because they don't internet....then there's the elderly who haven't heard...blacks, mexicans...i mean there's probably just as many people who haven't heard that would sign...no telling who much of this state is actually in for it...im seriously worried it's a bigger deal than others think...even with that tiny stat its enough to get the damn ball rolling

Shhh...

You can't get into trouble for that can you?

joking obviously, but like this plan

We may not have siberia but northeastern alaska is pretty damn close. What is the current punishment for treason in the US? Lynching would be a good option I think. Y'know, a taste of their own medicine.

Also treason is defined basically as going to war or being involved in war plans against the states of the U.S, so if the secession petition explicitly states the desire for peaceful relations with the rest of the Union after they secede, where is the treason you have already found?

Removing territory from the USA should be considered an unlawful seizure of governmental territory. If North Korea came and annexed Hawaii without firing a shot would we just say "okey dokey no violence here". Taking territory from the USA for any reason should be considered an act of war by another country, or treason by someone from your own country, period. Those who commit treason are breaking John Locke's social contract with their home nation, and therefore do not deserve the entitlements that go along with it, including the valuation and protection of their life. Go ahead and secede people like you make the US look bad anyway.

Look don't talk to me like I'm four when you clearly have never opened a book. Yes, North Korea would be engaging in a coercive manner if it forcefully TOOK "territory" from the United States (threats are force so explicit violence isn't a necessity for force to occur). However secession does not imply coercive actions against anyone, how can the U.S. proclaim to own the land/"territory" whose title of ownership belongs to a citizen, the thought in itself is absurd. Not to mention the unnecessary destruction of property and life a war is bound to bring. The only way the North Korea example would be valid is if the residents of Hawaii wanted to secede and join North Korea, but then this wouldn't be annexation.


Furthermore, if you say they took the territory, and that doing so is treasonous, whereas the only difference between the treasonous Texan and the law-abiding Texan is the fact that they seceded, then there must have been a crime. Was their crime wanting to govern themselves and using secession as a means to achieve this goal just like our Founding Fathers did to Great Britain?


Finally John Locke repeatedly pronounces his support for secession in his works. He also gives each man inviolable rights to life, liberty, and property, which is the principle from which my argument above came from. Now go pretend to know things somewhere else.

You think the South was in the right in the civil war. Therefore your argument is invalid.

Go die in a fire.

When did you last hear of a secessionist lynching someone? So your plan is to take those people that only want to govern themselves and either hang or burn them for that belief, you're a sick fuck. Furthermore you're correlating secession with racism which is entirely false, in fact many prominent abolitionists were pro-Southern secession because they believed it would help end slavery faster. To put it forcefully not granting a state the right to secession is enslaving that state. Just as a master forces the slave to obey the government forces Texas to obey. We may feel free, but a good analogy is that we are like free-range chickens, lots of room to do what we want, but in no way can we be considered free.

secessionist states=southern states=racist states=states that lynched black people.

was that so hard?

So your saying because of some secessionists hundreds of years ago were murderous racists we should assume every secessionist from then on is also a murdering racist and treat them as a criminal?

The whole country was racist, it wasn't a southern thing. Lincoln repeatedly claimed blacks to be inferior to whites and never supported emancipation until the North was in danger of losing the Civil War and he used it as a personal relations campaign rather than a human rights issue. Even after he supported emancipation, and until his dying day he still wanted to ship all blacks to Liberia after they were freed. Many records indicate Northerners were more racist than Southerners if only because the Southerners at least had to treat the slaves well enough to maximize profits while Northerners viewed freed blacks as threats due to their cheap labor in the free states.

You are literally too stupid to insult. I now hate the south even more knowing that they teach that version of "history" in school sometime after the lesson on how the world is only 3000 years old, and that Jesus rode on dinosaurs.

But to lynch 100,000 people? I doubt that would go over nicely.

Now that petition I would like to see.

https://petitions . whitehouse . gov/petition/strip-citizenship-everyone-who-signed-petition-secede-and-exile-the m/ZbMjcwPf

False, there are some people who just like the idea of secession. I have signed every secession petition possible and would have regardless of who is President. How is it a bad idea to let people who don't agree with the system to leave and start their own system thus making everyone happier.

If you don't like the government, move. No need to break our country apart.

The reason people get divided is because as governments get more centralized politics becomes more all or nothing, obviously with more federal power there is less diversity of laws throughout the country. S so it all hinges on big elections, where the losers generally tend to get mad. Allow secession and by definition there will be less resentment and divisiveness in politics because people will be governed how they want to be governed. Finally, the like it or leave it is quite a disgusting mantra. You're telling people to leave their whole lives behind; their jobs, family, friends, and communities all because you won't allow them to govern themselves.

What about the people who don't want to govern themselves? Are we suppose to just change because a few people are butthurt? It's not going to happen. There are laws against it and Texas has been trying to leave the Union for a long time and it never happens.

They can secede from the new government back into their old more preferred one. Isn't secession great! In fact, Austin Texas actually made one of these secession petitions for just that situation. Secession is something that can be done at any institutional level down to the individual themself if that is what is wanted, although at that point it might not be practical.

No secession is not great. It's stupid.

this made me happy

my pleasure

I dont see why Colorado is on the list. We are a pretty democratic state.

Because they only need 25k signatures.

and Quebec will never gain freedom so they best stop whining.

U...Ughhhhhh
This is painful to look at...

i applaud you for actually understanding. good day to you sir.