Too Soon?

I don't think they're mentally ill, just misguided and corrupted from an early age.

Not saying I agree with terrorists or something, it's just way too easy for people to slander people on the opposite side of a conflict. If people took a moment to understand the motives and reasoning (no matter how faulty) behind their ideology, we might be able to come up with some other solution other than "Kill them all and lock up everyone who agrees with them".

No idea why I chose this time to start this debate.

there is no real justification for a mindset that tells you to kill people. anyone who thinks that murder is the solution to anything has at least some mental problems. they can't be reasoned with, they believe theirs is the only true solution and it is misguided in the first place especially when it is based off of religious extremism. there is a reason we don't negotiate with terrorists.

War is murder.

Countries, yes also western countries like USA, England and some others, have gone to war to "solve" this terrorist problem.

Therefore, murder is believed to be a solution. What's your stance on this?

Also it's what I'm trying to say, how misguided it is to truly believe without justification that your side is the right one and that the enemy deserves to die.

good point, but i think eradicating terrorists is different from being a terrorists for misguided reasons, religious or otherwise. it's more of a defense policy. i'm not saying war is good or anything, i just think that comparing terrorism to the war against terror is a bit of a strawman argument.

i may have been a little too general in my previous comment, some people deserve to die, but to think that murdering civilians will bring you personal gain is sick. you don't see me out there with the soldiers killing people. i appreciate what they do because they defend my country against people who would otherwise harm it, but i would not be able to kill people. terrorists are on a whole other level, again they can't be reasoned with because their motives are unjustified in the first place.

Maybe it is different. But i just can't help think that maybe these are just regular people too. I wonder what persuaded them to abandon whatever life they may have had in favor of becoming a war criminal. Just try to picture how they might view western countries: As evil, monopolizing countries who opress the 3rd world countries to earn money, full of evil bankers and shizzle. This (mostly false) image represents but a small part of America (like, say, the actual bankers we have that DO do these kind of things), the same way a lot of people view arabic coutnries based on the image they have of terrorists, as in they apply what they think about one small group to an entire country of people.

And the problem with war is, it hurts the people before it hurts the ones you're trying to get. There's huge amounts of collateral damage done by troops in Iraq and other countries. They set out to take out one evil man, but they mostly end up hurting people who do not deserve being hurt, whether accidental or not. War is very, very dirty business and a life should not be taken casually.

Sorry about the wall of text.

maybe terrorists do that BECAUSE they are bat-shit crazy. a lot of people feel hatred toward many countries, but only the extremists who are arguably insane actually go over and terrorize civilians because they think it is the right thing to do.

the difference between war and terrorism is that in war you set out to kill as much of the enemy troops as possible (avoiding, if possible, civilian casualties), while terrorists aim to kill civilians with the intent of creating terror, hence the name.

you might bring up the nukes dropped on japan in WWII, but you must remember how much controversy surrounded those bombs and that the cities themselves were target, if im not mistaken, for their factories and industry and such that contributed to the war effort, not to take out the civilian population, while that was expected and did happen.

I'm not sure about them being batshit insane, but something definitely went wrong somewhere in their lives.

I'm aware there's a difference, I'm just trying to think of ways we can actually alleviate this sort of veil of ignorance they have in those arabic countries. This would prevent further terrorists from being recruited, and would push them away from the people's favor.

Because at the moment, the people hates us. We invaded their lands, raveged it with war, changed a bunch of stuff, called it "bringing them democracy" and then left.

well how else do you propose ridding middle eastern countries from the terrorist groups that practically control their governments besides invading and flipping the government that will breed more terrorists? there are no negotiations that will work with terrorists, the people will hate us either way. we cannot be passive, they seek to destroy our way of life.

There's a lot of opposing forces in this world trying to make your life miserable, a lot of those close at home. I see you consider the terrorists themselves the true enemy of your way of life. But it's not entirely correct. It's the ideology that they worship that threatens it. Such ideology runs deep and was almost always present in any given time. When there's A, there has always been a B trying to fight A.

The thing is, we can kill as many terrorists as you want and in the meantime be considered "assholes" for all the collateral damage we cause, both in the literal and metaphorical sense, or we can actually try and combat the ideology by spreading positive news and thinking. Rationality, equality, things like that.

This also means that we need to focus on solving problems closer to home. All of our countries are FAR from perfect. We need to establish a better society if we wish to be more of an example. Only then can we actually rationalize going to people's countries and telling them to adopt our way of living.

What I'm trying to say is, there's a deeper reasoning behind all this that we fail to actually find and solve with conflict. We should focus more on trying to solve this problem by changing their way of thinking and solving our own shit, instead of putting ourselves on the opposite side of them and actively trying to oppose them like they oppose us (this in the metaphorical sense, not saying we should do nothing while they attack us).

Am I confusing yet?

well that is a very positive outlook and i would agree with you if that had worked with communism, but trying to get rid of ideologies that are harmful to us is not possible, especially with one as irrational as extremism that fuels terrorists. we can't change anybody's mind by having a good life. like i said, these people control the government, even if people wanted to change to our way of life because they saw it as better by our example, they couldn't do anything about it. i repeat, they can't be reasoned with. the best we can do is physically get rid of all the threats that we know of.

We can always try. I prefer to keep trying for something probably hopeless than resort to old methods that won't solve anything in the first place.

well on top of the fact that it won't work, there is no one to reason with in the first place. there is no set leader or united group. there are just bands of people under one name. if we somehow manage to reason with one group, another will show up. it's not old methods because it is a relatively new form of warfare, trying to change people's ideologies would be trying to use an old method.

No one has ever tried to create peace by spreading modernized thinking and positive ideologies, so its not an old method. We're at the precipice of a new era, we can easily communicate wirelessly and can get to the other side of the planet in a day. If there ever is a time to start raising people everywhere to the heightened status and state of living we have, now is the time.

Or maybe a bit later, since we still have some work to do to make our own countires better.

isn't that exactly what we tried to do after WWII to show that capitalism was better than communism? albeit the arms race wasn't exactly peaceful, but other huge technological advancements and the berlin airlift were used to show our prosperity and high standard of living to communist countries but there are still communist countries.

Those were more aggressive statements, a rivalry between two factions to prove they were better than the other.

What I'm suggesting is reaching out a hand without hostility. To the people, not the terrorists.

we did try that, we tried to help them establish a democracy, but there was too much corruption and the terrorists groups still controlled the government. it's not like our troops are over there killing every civilian they see. we cannot help them that way, they will be controlled or killed by their own government.

The reason that failed is because we tried to force it upon them. They wanted us gone, dude. They didn't appreciate us barging in and taking control.

If we want countries like that to grow and become better, we need to LET them grow, not force growth upon them. And we do that by the whole "spreading positive news like rationality and stuff". Then we can only hope for them to pick up on it. We need to educate the people on matters like this, subtly.

what i'm trying to tell you is that the people are not in control. we can educate the people all we want but in the end the extremist groups have the guns.

The people are in fact in control. We just lack unification, because most people are not yet ready to contemplate things they don't agree with. It's part of growth to become more of a free thinker and to embrace ideas that aren't your own.

And I suppose I agree that extremist opression should be removed (possibly via violence), since they hinder that growth, but it never goes like that anyway.

Anyway, t'was fun debating with you! Thank you for some new insights, but I fear we're gonna debate in circles now! Thumb up for all yer comments

indeed, you have a good mind, thank you. i shall return the favor

>implying thugs go on sensless rampages and dont do the killings for money or power related reasons

If brainwash and religion are considered mental illness, then yeah they are.

if it makes you want to kill people, then yeah

They aren't, they are raised to believe what they are doing is right. People in the KKK are not mentally ill, they just believe that what they are doing is right. Its all about upbringing and a certain lack of self thought.

i don't think it is a stretch to say that the way you are brought up can affect your mental health. i think it can be argued that members of the KKK are mentally ill, just as it can be argued that anyone with that mindset is, eg. Hitler. if you are brought up to believe that killing whoever you want is ok, your mental state will be in a form that is unsuitable to live in a society with other people and you can very well be considered mentally ill.

so george washington was mentally ill?

he did replace his teeth with wood

its called extremists

Maybe its Maybelline....

Feminism ...

Someone say feminism?

NO

cue 'out of the loop'

Take this please, and throw that shitty, little quality in the trash.

:D

<--------

This fucking comment. I even sang it like the stupid commercial you smart son of a bitch.

This

noooooooooooo.

Thanks for fueling my erection.

ha thanks got a link i wanna watch it

OHOHOHOHOHOHO SO FAHNNY. YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF PEOPLES BELIEFS HOW ORIGINAL LOLOLOLOLOL.



Seriously. Try harder. No no no, in fact, quit trying. Its obnoxious.

Yet he still bashes people's beliefs. So I'm going to speak my opinion about it, just like he did. Or should I masturbate because I have an opinion too?

no, i totally understand you.
i understand, that you get mad, if somebody writes something offensive on the internet.

Took you so long to reword what he said except dropping the part about masturbating, huh? CLEVER. Dude, I think you might be the most original person on the internet! And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

oh, sorry that i spent 3 hours without checking my pc. ofc, you dont understand it, people like me call it a "life". just google it and after that, just write me a message, i'll tell you what a "vagina" is then. it's gonna be a little bit scary in the beginning but you'll get used to it.

And you copy what Daniel Tosh says! BRAVO, my good fellow. Man, I wish I was as original as you and got that much pussy!

link to that guy please, whoever the fuck he is. but please, do not come up with you old argument again, get something new, if you can think that far.

Well, I have better things to do than sit and answer to your every will, believe it or not. Wait, according to you, I have no life, so maybe I don't have anything better to do.... Actually, ya know what, I do. Its called taking a huge piss. So look it up yourself, you lazy fuck.

i shall look up some random bullshit, that an idiot like you told me? well, seems like you dont have so much to do though, since you've started crying about my comment and argueing (pretty bad by the way).

Yes, I am in fact crying over you calling me an idiot and telling me I have no life. Since you have so much knowledge of me, would you like to be the one to write my Biography? It seems you'd fit the job perfectly!

That is, if your not to busy getting all this 'pussy' you talk about.

oh, please, show me the comment where i wrote that. after that, you could show me where i wrote anything about you crying.
cant you get up with better stories?
by the way, dont complain again, i'll need some time to reply again, gotta go afk, i hope you can stand a few minutes without me. dont care, i'll miss you too.

'i shall look up some random bullshit, that an idiot like you told me? well, seems like you dont have so much to do though, since you've started crying about my comment and argueing (pretty bad by the way). '
'oh, sorry that i spent 3 hours without checking my pc. ofc, you dont understand it, people like me call it a "life". just google it and after that, just write me a message, i'll tell you what a "vagina" is then. it's gonna be a little bit scary in the beginning but you'll get used to it. '
You must have a terrible memory.

ah, that. well, i didnt mean that kind of crying, i didnt know that your english skills are THAT bad. i was talking about the whiny-butthurt-bitching about how offensive my post is.
and i still dont see where i wrote that "i'm getting pussy", look it up again, please.

thats what he looked like 5 years ago.

Are zipties military-issued now?

OP

he probably got a A- and went insane because of that ..

The problem is that the world doesn't work that way.

Consider the following:
Black man kills a white man => Assault with death as the unfortunate consequence.
White man kills a black man => Super hate crime. He must be the devil in human form.

It's just the way the world works I suppose.

I know, which is why I think its so fucked up. There are so many people that seem to be able to get away with shit, while others can't. I don't see how they can defend people like that? Mentally ill. Well of course he's fucked up in the head, thats the exact reason why you should lock up someone like that.

I completely agree with you.
And with lock up, I don't mean the 4-star hotels they're getting in my country, I mean a shit hole with nothing but water and bread.

So in your country criminals also get a better life? Here to, they get a comfy bed, 3 meals a day, fucking tv. I mean what the hell, what happened to the striped uniform and the chained ball to the ankles?

Yes, about the same as what you're describing right now.
But it gets better, they can pay the state for even more perks, like a room for themselves (normally they have to share, 2 prisoners in a room).
I even think some of them can get internet if they pay for it (depends on the crime and mental health of the prisoner).

Its so fucked up. If you're homeless, just murder someone and your live improves drastically...They will give you a fair trail, spend hours and thousands of euro's to get your food and health supplies. I'll just let it rest here. I'm not planning on being there anytime soon, but crime is not exactly discouraged if they treat you like this.

I feel the same way.
See you around.

Two face never got shit done. Joker did.

Thank you, glad there's some sensible people.

what about the IRA?

That's his point, white people can be terrorists too

And just so you are aware of how cycling absolution models are of arguing, the Joker is mentally ill. So now is the murderer only a mental ill patient by my model? No, because I am arguing for a continuum model; this act has attributes from all categories.

In his mind, yes. His act would be for the same reasons the Joker would do it. And the Joker would do it as an act of terrorism.

I wish I could give you a thousand thumbs.

So who is gunna tell him the Joker had green hair?

that hair

i laughed so hard at this, I'm still giggling

I usually don't laugh at people getting killed, but somehow this just struck me as really, really funny!

*Politically incorrect

no...he was quoted as saying "i am the joker". as to why he had red hair....idk maybe hes retarded?

I was so delighted ^_^

Gif Unrelated

Wrong color hair dye too.

I didn't think he looked drugged out, but more just deep in thought.

The way his eyebrows moved and the way his eyes would bulge in and out is kind of what happens when you have a conversation in your head.

No i mean he was not paying attention to anything they said to him or anything that was going on, he moved his head very slowly with his eyes half closed sometimes fully closed just like someone who is half-asleep or fucked up on something would do.

I wasn't surprised he wasn't paying any attention; he knows he's fucked and there's no way for him to get out of this, even if the defense diagnosed him with schizophrenia, people would still want him dead and even try to kill him themselves.

Not to mention all the talk about him getting the death penalty.

if he was arab the media would still call it as a terrorist plot

Nope. Too bad you're an idiot.

It's only terrorism if there is political motivation.

Yeah, but with the religious motivation comes the political motivation.

You should look up what the goals of the Taliban are, it's not just to kill infidels.

And yes it DOES have to be politically motivated, for that is the definition of terrorism.

My point is that if a Muslim shot up a movie theater, rigged his house to explode, and said he was the Joker... I doubt he would be called anything but insane.

That's correct but with every religiously motivated act of terrorism, there are political gains behind it.

The Israeli conflict.

The Muslim Brotherhood.

And the fact that they're murdering to try and implement sharia law.

Thank you :)

Not to long ago a white man killed most of a boys camp, claiming they were neo-nazis. He claimed his act was for his Christian God, he was labeled mentally insane.

He was labeled insane because he was taking orders from an invisible friend in the sky, not because he was white.

And I would say he was. He killed people because he thought they were a threat, but he was obviously crazy. Terrorists kill people to incite terror in their enemies, hence the name terrorists. Not saying this is sane behavior, but that is the reasoning behind the label.

Your saying that all terrorist are mentally insane, which is reasonable. But society says that Arab terrorists are in their right mind and white terrorists are insane.

I don't know where you ever heard that, because I have never heard any differentiation between race when it comes to terrorism. We've had white muslims perform acts of terrorism, and they are simply labeled as terrorists. Nothing more.

You must be lucky enough not to live in America

And yet when Arabs kill for their god, they are deemed terrorists? Flawless Logic.

It is the reason that they kill that labels them terrorists. They kill to try and scare their enemies. To incite terror. When the same Arab shoots someone on the battlefield, they are not called terrorists, they are called soldiers, rebels, or insurgents, whatever the situation calls for. When they kill just to incite terror, they are a terrorist, no matter the race. If it comes out later that this guy shot these people at the theater in order to incite terror, for whatever organization or belief, he would then be labeled a terrorist.

the post is right, he was treated as a suspect until a few days ago, if he was of a minority, he would have been arrested inmediatly

He was treated as a suspect because they didn't know who did it, until they got enough evidence to arrest him. This happens to anyone who is a suspect., no matter the race. When they are caught red handed, or there were witnesses, that's when they make the arrest, no matter the race.

but their punishments vary
and u know it

Some have better lawyers and family who care about them.
and you know it

and that is the part of the problem
what does any of that have to do with anything
HE IS A MURDER
AND SHOULD BE PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY

I concur.