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#178
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] I call bullshit, nowhere in any law does it give women the right to hit a man. You know WHY you never hear about domestic violence for men? Because NO MAN WILL REPORT IT. Jesus Christ, I'm sorry but this really upsets me, men saying it's okay for us to hit them. There is NO law protecting us so that we can hit you. None. Men could go to the cops if they wanted to, but they don't. That's why you guys don't realize that it is against the law for us to do that to you. Would YOU really want to admit that your wife beats you up? I'm sure some guys would, but this whole "pride" thing takes over, must be some kind of pussy to get beat up by a girl... Far from the truth, it doesn't make you a pussy to be beaten up by a girl, it makes the girl a worthless piece of shit just like a man who would hit a woman. We have no protection under law to hit you, if you ever get hit you are in full right to report it. A lot of men are in abusive relationships, either they won't come forward and admit it, or they don't want to even admit it to themselves, granted most of these are more mental abuse than physical, but you still have the law to protect you from abuse from a woman. Inc red thumbs but I mean seriously....
#194 to #178
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subaqueousreach (05/25/2012) [-] There was some kind of survey made last year or the year before about abusive relationships, and it was determined that more than 60% of abusive relationships are wives/girlfriends abusing their husbands/boyfriends.
If it wasn't for the fact that the men were kept anonymous I don't think they'd have been able to get these results. Like you said, there's a certain thing about pride for men and the whole "oh you were beat up by a girl?".
It's ridiculous though, because according to the "rule of not hitting women", you really can't help but let a girl beat you up could you, because hitting her back is considered low and cowardly by the public.
Because of this attitude in the world it's always a lose-lose scenario for the man in this situation unfortunately,
If it wasn't for the fact that the men were kept anonymous I don't think they'd have been able to get these results. Like you said, there's a certain thing about pride for men and the whole "oh you were beat up by a girl?".
It's ridiculous though, because according to the "rule of not hitting women", you really can't help but let a girl beat you up could you, because hitting her back is considered low and cowardly by the public.
Because of this attitude in the world it's always a lose-lose scenario for the man in this situation unfortunately,
#201 to #194
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] I agree, it's shameful to look down on men who are being abused. It happens way too often and goes too unnoticed. But men need to understand that the law is there to protect them too.
The problem with "self defense" for a man, is women have a harder time seriously injuring a man, but a man could easily injure a woman and not even try hard to do so. That's the problem, many men could claim self defense and it be a true case, but if the woman is injured enough, they can claim that it wasn't self defense and it was abuse. Even if the woman doesn't get very injured, it can still be turned around on the man.
But the law doesn't protect women, there is no law protecting them and allowing the abuse of a husband to go on in the home. It's a mixed up system we have, we have women who are "equal" but are still looked at as frail creatures incapable of anything but love. They often get the sympathy vote in these cases. BUT no law protects them, what needs to change is our way of thinking about the difference of sexes. Realize that men are capable of abuse, but women are too, and not throw women the benefit of the doubt just because they are "weaker".
The problem with "self defense" for a man, is women have a harder time seriously injuring a man, but a man could easily injure a woman and not even try hard to do so. That's the problem, many men could claim self defense and it be a true case, but if the woman is injured enough, they can claim that it wasn't self defense and it was abuse. Even if the woman doesn't get very injured, it can still be turned around on the man.
But the law doesn't protect women, there is no law protecting them and allowing the abuse of a husband to go on in the home. It's a mixed up system we have, we have women who are "equal" but are still looked at as frail creatures incapable of anything but love. They often get the sympathy vote in these cases. BUT no law protects them, what needs to change is our way of thinking about the difference of sexes. Realize that men are capable of abuse, but women are too, and not throw women the benefit of the doubt just because they are "weaker".
#204 to #201
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Women generally don't have to do the beating themselves, they use violence by proxy. Consider the story of Renada Williams who told two men that her boyfriend had raped her, so they tied him up, then beat, tortured and raped him for almost 24 hours. She was later proven to have lied.
This is not an isolated incident by any stretch of the imagination.
This is not an isolated incident by any stretch of the imagination.
#208 to #204
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] Nope, that happens on the most basic levels too. Girls manipulate men into fighting even in High School.
In that case both are wrong, she should never had lied, but the route taken by the two men was wrong as well. I understand the anger behind it though. Woman is a crazy bitch and needs to be locked up.
In that case both are wrong, she should never had lied, but the route taken by the two men was wrong as well. I understand the anger behind it though. Woman is a crazy bitch and needs to be locked up.
#211 to #208
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
That was a very over the top example, but he has a point, women tend to use a proxy, less in the shape of another person but more in the shape of a weapon.
A knife, a baseball bat, a saucepan (which hurt quite a bit actually).
These surpass the "natural physical superiority" of men, one may be able to punch a little harder, but a baseball bat to the head's going to hurt no matter who's wielding it.
A knife, a baseball bat, a saucepan (which hurt quite a bit actually).
These surpass the "natural physical superiority" of men, one may be able to punch a little harder, but a baseball bat to the head's going to hurt no matter who's wielding it.
#217 to #211
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] You would be surprised how many women don't even need those to beat a man, they can do it with slapping, scratching, biting, and hitting. Sure we can't throw a punch worth a shit, but women can do just as bad of damage as a man can. I'm pretty sure if a man went to the cops after being hit with an object, there would be no doubt of domestic violence with the man being the victim.
#220 to #217
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Weapons can be used as threats as well though.
"if a man went to the cops after being hit with an object, there would be no doubt of domestic violence with the man being the victim."
You'd be surprised, most of the time that's correct, but that still doesn't stop false allegations and the like.
If the woman claims self-defence, generally her word will be taken over his.
No, really:
http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/dhines/Douglas%20%20Hines%202011%20helpseeking %20experiences%20of%20male%20victims.pdf
According to this, when approaching help, the help line will often interpret the man as the perpetrator rather than the victim
"if a man went to the cops after being hit with an object, there would be no doubt of domestic violence with the man being the victim."
You'd be surprised, most of the time that's correct, but that still doesn't stop false allegations and the like.
If the woman claims self-defence, generally her word will be taken over his.
No, really:
http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/dhines/Douglas%20%20Hines%202011%20helpseeking %20experiences%20of%20male%20victims.pdf
According to this, when approaching help, the help line will often interpret the man as the perpetrator rather than the victim
#195 to #189
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] The Violence Against Women Act does not protect women who are abusive, it protects them if they are trying to defend themselves from abuse. There is a difference between self defense and being an abuser. If a woman is being abused, then she is in full right to protect herself, just as a man is.
The Violence Against Women Act is there to open shelters to battered women and help raise awareness and help those who have been victims of abuse. It again, in no way protects women who are abusive for no reason.
And no, men don't report it, it is an known fact that abuse to a male is one of the LEAST reported crimes, second to sexual abuse to a male.
The Violence Against Women Act is there to open shelters to battered women and help raise awareness and help those who have been victims of abuse. It again, in no way protects women who are abusive for no reason.
And no, men don't report it, it is an known fact that abuse to a male is one of the LEAST reported crimes, second to sexual abuse to a male.
#203 to #195
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Then why is it specifically a "Violence against Women Act"?, why not a "Violence against Spouse Act"; because women get special treatment from the court system.
The same way that a vast majority of women receive a vast majority of the wealth in a vast majority of divorces cases.
And men DO report the abuse, let me cite my source. Again.
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
Not only that, but a majority of physical abuse is carried out by the female.
The same way that a vast majority of women receive a vast majority of the wealth in a vast majority of divorces cases.
And men DO report the abuse, let me cite my source. Again.
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf
Not only that, but a majority of physical abuse is carried out by the female.
#207 to #203
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] I never disagreed with abuse being mostly on the female side, maybe learn to read? Lol, and as for the why not "violence against spouse act" refer to my post to anon under you.
I'm not against men in any way shape or form. I know the system is corrupt and bias. But men need to know that there is no law allowing us to abuse men, they have protection, and if they find themselves in a situation like that, they need to speak up and say something. Staying quiet won't get the public attention to the wrongs being caused.
I love how everyone seems to be thinking that I'm against men's rights though lmao
I'm not against men in any way shape or form. I know the system is corrupt and bias. But men need to know that there is no law allowing us to abuse men, they have protection, and if they find themselves in a situation like that, they need to speak up and say something. Staying quiet won't get the public attention to the wrongs being caused.
I love how everyone seems to be thinking that I'm against men's rights though lmao
#210 to #207
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
"I never disagreed with abuse being mostly on the female side, maybe learn to read"
Did I state that in any way? It was an additional point, and you're telling me to learn to read.
The point I'm arguing is the system is inherently biased, like you said.
There is no specific law discriminating, the court is "gender blind", but as the same time is sexist, which is much harder to "fight" against.
Feminism is a much larger movement than Masculism, simply because the latter is much newer, it has not gained steam, in fact it's barely known; hell, my spellcheck denies its existence too.
How often do you hear that there are male victims of abuse? The media handily paints over it, and with Masculism lacking the big backers of Feminism that's not going to change.
Feminism is seen as "hip" and "trendy", your business supports feminism and you're guaranteed money; Masculism is seen as "sad" and "backwards" in a "How dare you evil chauvinistic pigs try and oppress us again".
Supporting Masculism is bad business.
And nobody said you were against men's rights.
Did I state that in any way? It was an additional point, and you're telling me to learn to read.
The point I'm arguing is the system is inherently biased, like you said.
There is no specific law discriminating, the court is "gender blind", but as the same time is sexist, which is much harder to "fight" against.
Feminism is a much larger movement than Masculism, simply because the latter is much newer, it has not gained steam, in fact it's barely known; hell, my spellcheck denies its existence too.
How often do you hear that there are male victims of abuse? The media handily paints over it, and with Masculism lacking the big backers of Feminism that's not going to change.
Feminism is seen as "hip" and "trendy", your business supports feminism and you're guaranteed money; Masculism is seen as "sad" and "backwards" in a "How dare you evil chauvinistic pigs try and oppress us again".
Supporting Masculism is bad business.
And nobody said you were against men's rights.
#221 to #210
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] "Not only that, but a majority of physical abuse is carried out by the female." Yes you actually did say that. Read your own posts maybe, it's something I've said many times but you seem to not want to read my posts.
You never hear males being the victims of abuse because again, they don't report it. You never hear about DV unless it's REALLY bad. DV usually doesn't get media attention to the point of a large population seeing it like on CNN or Fox.
Feminism is starting back up because of the GOP passing all these retarded laws, that's the only reason it's "hip" and "trendy". But we won't get into that.
What's so hard for people to grasp about men's rights is that, for such a long time, men had ALL the rights. Everyone's been fighting against white men to GET the rights that men have always been allotted. Now that "special intrest groups" have come about and gained rights for women and minorities, males are starting to understand what it's like to be discriminated against. The male population doesn't understand or see the threat because it's never been an issue for them. And it's hard for the rest of the population to take them seriously because men have always had rights.
That's why there is a backwards way of thinking, people don't see that with the rights that everyone else is getting that men always have had, that men are getting those same rights taken away currently.
You never hear males being the victims of abuse because again, they don't report it. You never hear about DV unless it's REALLY bad. DV usually doesn't get media attention to the point of a large population seeing it like on CNN or Fox.
Feminism is starting back up because of the GOP passing all these retarded laws, that's the only reason it's "hip" and "trendy". But we won't get into that.
What's so hard for people to grasp about men's rights is that, for such a long time, men had ALL the rights. Everyone's been fighting against white men to GET the rights that men have always been allotted. Now that "special intrest groups" have come about and gained rights for women and minorities, males are starting to understand what it's like to be discriminated against. The male population doesn't understand or see the threat because it's never been an issue for them. And it's hard for the rest of the population to take them seriously because men have always had rights.
That's why there is a backwards way of thinking, people don't see that with the rights that everyone else is getting that men always have had, that men are getting those same rights taken away currently.
#224 to #221
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
"Yes you actually did say that."
Your reading comprehension's a bit iffy, that never, ever, ever implies that you denied that, it's a nice little bit of extra information, the kind you answer "Yeah, I already knew that" to, not "I never disagreed with that"; that's unnecessarily defensive.
You're right, you don't hear about it unless it's really bad, but when you have a government report that blatantly misrepresents facts, then it starts to get a bit... off.
Oh, now you're getting into good ol' white guilt, discriminating against a modern group for past sins, right?
The rest of the population to too busy being "politically correct" to bother with "male rights", that's the thing, Feminism is seen as "hip" and "trendy", if you support Feminism as a man you are progressive, if you don't you are a sexism pig.
Hell, if you support Male rights you may as well run down the streets shouting "Hey guys, I'm gay".
The Scotland Yard recently banned the word "White-list" from usage due to the "racist connotations", that's the modern culture of political correctness you have to fight against.
The Scotland Yard's supposed to be a centre of justice, it also recently admitted not arresting a group of Muslim sex offenders as it would appear "Racist", I wish I was joking.
I agree with how they don't see a threat, but that's thanks to the "media blackout" as the other anon mentioned below, in conjunction with nobody wanting to support male rights - it's hard to get publicity without the media on your side, much more so today than in the past.
It's two fronts effectively, "you are white, thus you are a slaver", as well as "you are male, thus you are a Chauvinist".
Your reading comprehension's a bit iffy, that never, ever, ever implies that you denied that, it's a nice little bit of extra information, the kind you answer "Yeah, I already knew that" to, not "I never disagreed with that"; that's unnecessarily defensive.
You're right, you don't hear about it unless it's really bad, but when you have a government report that blatantly misrepresents facts, then it starts to get a bit... off.
Oh, now you're getting into good ol' white guilt, discriminating against a modern group for past sins, right?
The rest of the population to too busy being "politically correct" to bother with "male rights", that's the thing, Feminism is seen as "hip" and "trendy", if you support Feminism as a man you are progressive, if you don't you are a sexism pig.
Hell, if you support Male rights you may as well run down the streets shouting "Hey guys, I'm gay".
The Scotland Yard recently banned the word "White-list" from usage due to the "racist connotations", that's the modern culture of political correctness you have to fight against.
The Scotland Yard's supposed to be a centre of justice, it also recently admitted not arresting a group of Muslim sex offenders as it would appear "Racist", I wish I was joking.
I agree with how they don't see a threat, but that's thanks to the "media blackout" as the other anon mentioned below, in conjunction with nobody wanting to support male rights - it's hard to get publicity without the media on your side, much more so today than in the past.
It's two fronts effectively, "you are white, thus you are a slaver", as well as "you are male, thus you are a Chauvinist".
#228 to #224
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] I'm not getting into a "modern group for past sins" but think about it, that's how everyone is and is going to take it. I'm not saying that's how I personally view it, but that is how the public will. It's going to be a rough road simply because of that. It's like people who still blame all white people for slavery, blaming the current generation for the stupidity of the last. But our society seems to like to hold grudges.
That's sad about Scotland Yard and the Muslim thing, that's like the Catholic Bishops getting off for their sex scandals. It's sad when Muslim sex offenders get off, but then everyone in America who sees a brown person automatically thinks terrorist. It's a weird world we live in, don't get rid of the bad guys because it's "racist" but allow people to run around believing everyone else is evil based on actions of the few.
That's sad about Scotland Yard and the Muslim thing, that's like the Catholic Bishops getting off for their sex scandals. It's sad when Muslim sex offenders get off, but then everyone in America who sees a brown person automatically thinks terrorist. It's a weird world we live in, don't get rid of the bad guys because it's "racist" but allow people to run around believing everyone else is evil based on actions of the few.
#214 to #210
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RandomGuard (05/25/2012) [-] This^^
Supporting Masculism is extremely bad for publicity, it is seen as extremely sexist and deflects a very large percentage of the market.
Men don't want to be seen as sexist supporting a company seen as sexist.
Women don't want to buy support a company that's sexist.
Supporting Masculism is extremely bad for publicity, it is seen as extremely sexist and deflects a very large percentage of the market.
Men don't want to be seen as sexist supporting a company seen as sexist.
Women don't want to buy support a company that's sexist.
#212 to #210
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Deflections are the most common manipulative tactic women fall back upon when losing an argument. Some of the most common ones used when dealing with men's issues are "not all women are like that," "you just need to man up," "patriarchy," and "wage gap." Stick to the argument as best you can and hold them to task.
#200 to #195
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Look, I know you really believe that VAWA is an act that protects women. It isn't. Go look into the massive amount of protesting going on (use the internet, you'll never hear about it on the TV). The law affords special privileges to women and actively discriminates against men. This is fact, look it up.
#205 to #200
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] That is like saying PETA is terrible because some crazy activists took something with good laws and intentions and turned it bat shit crazy.
It is an act that protects women, that's what it's intended to do. But just because the system is unfairly biased toward men, does not mean there is any legal standing that gives women the right to beat a man. No law says that. The system may be bias but there is no law stating that it is okay.
I'm not saying that women should be the only one with laws protecting them, men should to. I don't believe in woman's rights or men's rights, I believe in human rights. 60% of abuse victims are men, but that goes unnoticed. Men need to stand up and fight for their rights, just like women did. That's why there are laws protecting us and other "interest groups" (unfair term but that's what it's based on). Men have always relied on the laws to protect them, but now that they are unfairly turned against them, I don't think they understand that they need to start fighting for their human rights too.
It is an act that protects women, that's what it's intended to do. But just because the system is unfairly biased toward men, does not mean there is any legal standing that gives women the right to beat a man. No law says that. The system may be bias but there is no law stating that it is okay.
I'm not saying that women should be the only one with laws protecting them, men should to. I don't believe in woman's rights or men's rights, I believe in human rights. 60% of abuse victims are men, but that goes unnoticed. Men need to stand up and fight for their rights, just like women did. That's why there are laws protecting us and other "interest groups" (unfair term but that's what it's based on). Men have always relied on the laws to protect them, but now that they are unfairly turned against them, I don't think they understand that they need to start fighting for their human rights too.
#209 to #205
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N. Korean citizen (05/25/2012) [-]
Men ARE standing up and fighting for their rights. It's been a slowly building movement for decades. There are numerous sites popping up hither and thither about the issues men face. AngryHarry, AVoiceForMen, No-Maam and many many others. Youtube has numerous Mens Rights Activists spreading the word (GirlWritesWhat has arguably the best videos and is a female herself).
What happens when men do stand up? We have women like you popping up and saying, "yeah your issues are important, but woman issues are more important." We have the white knight crowd jumping in and making the problem worse to their own detriment ironically.
Did you know that SAVE (Stop Abusive and Violent Environments) has declared June "False Allegation Awareness Month" ? I'll bet you didn't because there is a media blackout on anything that supports men's rights.
What happens when men do stand up? We have women like you popping up and saying, "yeah your issues are important, but woman issues are more important." We have the white knight crowd jumping in and making the problem worse to their own detriment ironically.
Did you know that SAVE (Stop Abusive and Violent Environments) has declared June "False Allegation Awareness Month" ? I'll bet you didn't because there is a media blackout on anything that supports men's rights.
#223 to #209
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SniperKitty (05/25/2012) [-] When did I EVER say that woman's issues were more important? Show me where I said they were. I've been fighting FOR your rights, not against them if you read my posts correctly.
Men are going to have a hard road to fight to get their rights back, because they had them to begin with. People fought AGAINST men to get rights, now men have to fight against everyone to get the same treatment. The words, sexist and racist will be thrown around an awful lot.
And yes, I know about SAVE and I know about it's efforts for the False Allegation Awareness Month, I have a husband who was abused by a woman before we got together. A fight he lost against, she got away with years of abuse to him before he walked away. So I know well the abuse that goes on in a man's life that goes unnoticed.
Again I would LOVE for you to show me where I state that women have more important rights than men.
Men are going to have a hard road to fight to get their rights back, because they had them to begin with. People fought AGAINST men to get rights, now men have to fight against everyone to get the same treatment. The words, sexist and racist will be thrown around an awful lot.
And yes, I know about SAVE and I know about it's efforts for the False Allegation Awareness Month, I have a husband who was abused by a woman before we got together. A fight he lost against, she got away with years of abuse to him before he walked away. So I know well the abuse that goes on in a man's life that goes unnoticed.
Again I would LOVE for you to show me where I state that women have more important rights than men.
