so would you rather have god control all of our actions and not have any free will? I don't know about you but free will seems nice to me.... god doesn't allow suffering, WE do because WE caused it, and WE don't fix it.

lol, you assume if god is real he would be good. think about it, if you had no real connection to anyone or anything and could alter reality at a whim, would you really give two shits about anything?

that is assuming god is anything of a human being, with ego, lust, greed and what not... in essence you portrayed god as an invisible man, which is not what god is depicted in religious texts

Yes, he is depicted as not being that way, yet he is. He burned and plagued cities at a time simply because they wouldn't follow him. Then, while he claims to love everyone, he leaves those who do not submit and worship him to burn for all eternity.

Egypt was one instance. There was also when he stone rained Sodom because they were living sinful lives, after he promised to spare the city if there was one righteous person within, which there supposedly was, though I wouldn't call Lot a good person. And then he killed Lot's wife in front of her family simply because she looked back at the only home she had ever known while it was burning to the ground. To defy a tyrant who does these kinds of things is not lack of logical reasoning; it is conviction to your beliefs. Except in the case of someone who just truly does not understand. I've come to believe what I do through years of study though. And I deeply respect anyone who is devoted to their religion if they really understand it, no matter what that religion may be.

likewise i respect yours too. I was not aware about the story of sodom and gomorrah but just by reading its summary on the wiki page, it definitely seem justice is served in my opinion.

Its inhabitants were raping, robbing, having homo-orgies and what not lol. And they're not doing it amongst themselves but actions affect strangers and random travellers. Heck there might even be some ritualistic practices there that will greatly affect the innocent, and i think thats why such an event occured.

And about Lot's wife, I do agree that is out of hand, but like i said I don't know the full context of the situation and can't really give my opinion on that, but I do know god is just and very rarely does he intervene in matters regarding dunya.

So I'm going on a whim here and assume, in your opinion, if god truely is 'good' in your point of view, he would simply leave the city to devastate even more innocent ppl? lol

I'm not saying the city wasn't corrupt. My point is more that he claims murder as the highest of sins and then kills countless people, which is hypocrisy, a form of deceit, and a deceiver cannot be omnibenevolent. And then there's the fact that he made an oath to not destroy the city and then broke it. If he's omniscient, he knew he was going to break his oath from the beginning and deceived people into believing he planned on sparing the city. If he is not omniscient, then he has lied about his very nature again.

kills people of the city to stop a cancer.. i see nothing wrong with it... and that oath wasn't broken, its simply truly there was no 10 people who are still sane with the least faith in that city. And the only reason he made that promise wasn't because he came up with it but Lot asked for god to give the city a chance, God already knew the cities were a gone case to begin with.. but god being god merciful and forgiving gave in to Lot's request... anyways, theres many ways to look at a situation, but really I can't see how God is unjust even in your perspective, he didnt murder cuz he loves blood lol he saved others =\

I get what you're saying though, looking at the situation for what it is without considering the purpose of those actions obviously makes god look bad.

He wasn't supposed to find ten just people, only one. When he made the deal, it started with just destroying the city, and then if he could find so and so good people he would spare, and eventually they bargained until God agreed to spare it if there was just one good man, which there was, yet he still didn't spare the city. The issue I have with him isn't so much that he destroyed the city, it's that he murdered everyone there all the while saying murder was sinful. Then we get into what I saying about him being a hypocratic liar. And Sodom was merely one case. Every day, he damns great people to eternal suffering simply because they didn't worship him even if they were the greatest person in the world, but he still says he loves them as they burn and then evil men can get eternal bliss simply by saying God is Lord. What does that tell you about his true desire? To me, it spells narcisism and will to control, not love, especially since in the Bible it also says that humanity was created to serve God and worship him. Love by God is defined in the Bible as patient, eternal, to never harm, to always protect, etcetera, but he has very clearly harmed countless people, and God himself stated clearly that if you turn from him, he will lift his hand and not protect you, and so he is lying about love because he breaks it's meaning. And then there's Job who God had no reason to lift his hand from, absolutely no reason, but Satan asked God to, so he did. So really there is no end of injustice to me

not sure about the one; wiki says ten, and i just checked the Quran and i can't even find that bargaining part at all. (correct me if im wrong) o___o

and like i said those that were killed got it coming for them, they attack other innocent people... this 'murder' is as just as self defense except for other innocent people. Seriously sparring the citezens will only cause more harm... kinda hate to say it but they deserve to die, rather than other innocent people should suffer.

I do understand what you mean when you talk of God damns good people that are without faith or misled faith... however I do believe if truly their intentions are good, they always end up finding the right path. God won't leave a bro hanging lol.

And about unconditional love from God, you won't be given that, once you chose to rely on something else instead of him even after knowing him, in otherwords worship some other being or object other than the creator of everything.

And again, just cause you say i love you god, but do things God forbids you too, theres still a probability you'll go to hell, even greater so when you do worse things. All of this decision is up to god. Theres a whole study about these matters in Islam who you should act and what you should not do (not sure bout christianity) its called Akhlak

I believe there was this account of an israli prostitute in which she actually saved a dog that was dieing of thirst, and that act of kindness actually sparred her from hell... lol.. again all of it up to god to judge you, she never even embraced religion if im not mistaken.

To be honest all these fallacies you might come to know is mainly perhaps you cross reference alot of things about God through the bible? And i must say that you shouldn't cause its heavvvvvily rewritten by man, to fulfill his agenda.

It's in there, in Genesis. Again, I'm not saying the people of Sodom weren't bad people, it's just the fact of the matter is that God went back on his word, which makes him imperfect. And since he's imperfect, he cannot be omniscient, omnipotent, or omnibenevolent, which means he lied to make himself out to be that way. Why would he need to lie unless he was trying to deceive humanity to serve his own purposes? I do reference the Bible for facts, such as the destruction of Sodom, but I do not at all believe what it says about God's nature.

hmm ok so I'll just assume it is 1 person needed to save sodom and gomorrah and that one person is lot... but god still destroyed the city... when these parameters in mind; taken from the bible as you said... yes what you say totally makes sense, and i agree with you.

but because I'm very suspicious of the bible, I still tend to see the story set up this way to be wrong... lol, but its awesome how you manage to put the pieces of the puzzle from the bible together to see the bigger picture.

The thing about the puzzle, is that it's like all the pieces are square, so they fit anywhere to make endless combinations of images, some making sense others not so much. Lot's of people have put the puzzle together in different ways to make different pictures. This is the picture I've put together.

you can still use the bible though, that is if you can read the original koine greek version, i think thats the most reliable source of the injil you can get. Directly from jesus's mouth rather than iterations made by man.

I've actually read the Bible in Hebrew, with some help from my brother-in-law

if i had the power of a god i would alter my personality, making me wiser and smarter in a whim, for i know that everything would profit from that in the end. that is, assuming my human greed for power wouldn't take the best of me.

how long until that runs out? until the challenges and joys of life are gone and you are stuck in a infinite limbo of being immortal and pretty much losing everything that makes you human. at some point, i would think, it would all become meaningless. thats why any idea of god has to be beyond being human. im a taoist, and essentially if something has a finite boundary, or can be defined accurately, then it becomes the sum of its definition instead of what it is. things like god, love, and the self cannot be defined because they are meant to be what they are and nothing else. this is just me, but the idea of a god should not be part of a religion, because they try to define and limit it to what they believe with a closed mind.

remember, you powers are infinite and so are your options. you can pretty much make yourself immune to boredome, or create a deity that replaces you with all your ideals, something that would make sure everything stays right, something flawless, while you life a live of joy, but it doesn't even have to last forever; you can always end it if you want to.