VIRUS!!!!!
kryptik.LX Trojan!

my Nod32, who is flawless of course, caught that bitch.
in my country misleading to webpages that contain viruses is a crime.

well your nod32 is wrong this webpage is clean, look at all the comments for it.

it caught a virus from the website you linked to.
other people aparently have weaker virus detection software.
that is it. I will let others decide upon whether they will click it or not on their own.

i have avg pro i think i'm good.

all these things seem to me to be a matter of interpretation. e.g., "He stretches out the north over empty space; [He] hangs the earth on nothing." could be said equally to support earth floating through space, or the idea that if you reach the edge of the earth, you fall off, or the theory of a flat disc earth with the north as the centre and the south as the circumfrance ("He stretches out the north over empty space"). these guys are just filling in the blanks with scientific knowledge that we have already, which while intuitive, is a false logic. besides which, a book written at a time and place that was smarter than people tend to think (the middle eastern and Mediterranean countries were fairly advanced even thousands of years ago), as well as saying so much that it's virtually impossible to have NOTHING right in it, is still hardly gonna be a good source of information now. and none of this even matters, because just cos the guys who wrote it weren't wrong about everything, doesn't mean this is evidence for the existance of god. even if the bible said "E=mc^2" outright, it would only be a reflection of the knowledge of humans at the time it was written. the only way you could consider it evidence of god is by presuming it was god who wrote the book, which sends us into a circular logic of "god exists, because a book has scientific knowledge, which we know god wrote because god exists, because a book has scientific knowledge," etc.
TL;DR: so what? not convinced.
jimmies status: unrustled

TL;DR: so what? not convinced.
maybe if you read the whole thing you would of seen that all the contradictions you are making where proven false.

oh sorry, you must have misunderstood, my bad
when i said too long; didn't read, i meant "for those who felt MY COMMENT was too long, and so chose not to read it, here is a shorter version" i didn't mean to say the link you sent me was TL;DR. no no, i read your link, and didn't find any rebuttal to the above statement, or any issues i had with the points they made.

well at least i gave you shot and planted a seed of some kind, i guess that's all i can do.

sorry im not sure i understand. gave me a shot at what? and planted what seed? can you please elaborate

if you don't realize my purpose of putting that link there was to start a conversation like these ones, where i change somebody's mind on Christianity.
gave you a shot is just a metaphor for i tried to explain it as best as i could to you, and i realize many people will not believe in Christianity as it says in the bible
.(Matthew 7:13)"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.
a seed i planted a seed in you ( lets say god is the seed)
a seed will try to find what it needs to satisfy it, we can all find satisfaction in the lord.

ummm ok...this is gonna be fun.
jobs 26:7 talks about the stars (universe) stretching not expanding.
genesis 6:15 descibes how the boat should be built but the size is still too small for each pair of animals, their food, their fecies, and it was covered in pitch making not only water tight, but air tight as well and even if the window was open the entire time there would be too little oxigen for anything to survive, that and since the water covered the tallest mountain everything would freeze to death besides the artic animals...those would suffocate.
leviticus 15:13 hygiene is obviously what this discusses. but hygiene is a natural aspect. all animals including us practice this. so this passage is quite useless since it was obviously done before it even existed.
this link you provided seems to be nothing more than a bunch of false science that people try to make to convince everyone else that their holy book is magical. people did the same thing with the quarn...in the end...it was still all bullshit.

idk how to explain Noah's ark, trust me if i was their i would explain it.
everything else you just throw out because you don't want to try to understand or give it a chance.
if you read majority of this website page, i imagine you will gain a new outlook.

as i said. job 26:7 says the universe stretches and the earth floats. both are false. the universe expands and the earth falls in its rotation.
reading all of these things they are nothing more than changed context to make fake assumptions that the bible is magical and predicts things. many of these are true but morly seem like guesses that would eventually happen. this has been seen in the quaran. in fact ITS list is 3 times the size of this one with the same bullshit. altered meanings on certain passages to create a false idea of magic. this website is just the same as the rest. fake science and points to try to make it seem "divinely" inspired. its weak at best.

Imagine you take a glass of sea water. You declare that in this water there is "a strange white powder", "an air which burns, "life air", trumpet, two watermelons, 60 fish, and the entire French Foreign Legion. The fact that you were vaguely correct about some of the details is not an effective argument.

what in this web page is wrong?

The assumption that just because some of the details the bible can be interpreted to mean happen to be true does not mean everything it says should be taken as gospel. Forgive the expression.

please give a few examples.

There is a man in the sky who created everything. We know this because we said something that's vaguely similar to the truth on another unrelated matter.

and what do you rely on to give you your views, because i am pretty sure you weren't just born with that idea.

yet you want to except that we just happen to beat the odds and were randomly created from little one celled organisms over millions if not billions of years?
not to mention the odds of making a life sustaining planet where water exists on the surface on all forms.

Do you know the sheer number of planets in the known Universe?

<-- scroll down to "September 3rd for an idea.

Is the idea that one tiny spec of a self replicating molecule formed on one of a million billion planets in our galatic neighbourhood alone any less plausible than an intelligent designer?

yes there are an infinite amount of planets it seems, but you seem to miss two key factors.

evolution- if we evolved why are we so much different than other animals in our instincts, why do we feel love, guilt, hatred, jealousy, desire. i don't know of any animal that has more than 2 or 3 of these traits, why are so much different?

what is the chance of humanity as a whole becoming from some one celled organism, it could just as easy be a puddle of skin, that turns air and water into food.

One of the easiest ways of explaning why we all come from the same spicies is by blood. Almost all animals bleed red blood alike us humans, i am too tried to make anything longer than this but im gonna try to find a link where this is explained better. but for you'r entertainmen meanwhile; funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/3503560/there+is+no+God/

why are WE so much different? *

whoops got ahead of myself.

Good question.

Frankly neither you, I, or anyone is able to answer that question. Perhaps it's just our perspective, we know that other primates, dolphins, and a great deal of other mammals have highly advanced social mechanics. Perhaps we are simply the most evolved in that field?

As for your second point that's easier to explain. Evolution relies on the concept that the stuff that isn't very good doesn't last very long (99% of all species ever evolved are now extinct).

As a counter point: if we were designed then why are we so inefficient? What designer has people talk, eat, drink, and breathe through to same tube, ensuring some poor sod will choke to death as he tries to talk and eat at the same time.I don't think that just because we don't know the answers doesn't mean we should will the gaps with unverifiable guesswork.

i see no problem with talking, eating, breath, and drinking down the same tube.
talking and breathing go together eating and drinking go together, it is just easier to put them together i guess.

That was meant to be a comical flaw as opposed to a genuine argument. I know I won't persuade you to my beliefs and vice versa. I suggest we just accept and find some pictures of cats that look like German dictators and generally enjoy the 72 years we get on average before we die. If your right maybe we get to live in a golden city after that but either way I intend to enjoy this life while it lasts.

Good day to you.

i guess that's all we can do for now.

But i do have one last question what made me seem like a hypocrite, i try to be open minded about everything.
it's just that i cant be with things that contradict my faith, i wouldn't get very far if i said i was christian and i believe in evolution and that we just happen to get lucky with earth.

You know that you say that people dont give things a shot, and yet you do not seem to be able to look at this with an open mind yourself. Just wanted to tell you that you are a hipocrite

trust me im not a hypocrite i searched for a few years for what i wanted to believe in, as i said earlier (Matthew 7:13)"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way.

you can't please everyone.

Was just saying that he is not trying to understand our point of veiw, even if he says higher up in the comments that someone should try to look at this with an open mind. I myself have been raised in a christian family, and I understand his point of view, but I do not undertstand why he does not even try to understand ours. Just saying he's a hipocrite not that he has hurt anyone with his point off view.

if you have any questions about Christianity you want to ask me feel free.

I have a question about why chosing to belive in some beein in the sky that (if he is leading the world somehow right now) is tearing the whole world apart, maybe even sending us into a third WW(nuclear one, so yeah goodbye world), instead of trying to make real bonds with people and try to work together for a brighter future without having religion tearing people apart.

he is a god of free will, god doesn't say kill everyone that's not christian.

But what do you have to say about the comment i made earlier? Can you disagree on religion tearing the world apart?;



Sometimes I get sad when I think off how much more pleasant the world would be without religion, if we could just imagine all the people living for today. We could easly solve all the problems of the world right now, if it were not for religion that set us apart. Im not talking about christianty, im talking about religion in general. If it were not for islam there probbably woulda been no need to go into afganisthan (and soon iran). If it were not for christianty we would not be sent back 400 years because of the dark ages of christianity in the middleage. If it were not for religion we would have a better world right now, even though its possible to obtain world peace with all theese religions the religions really make it alot harder and alot more dangerous.



TL;DR : W/O Religion we could solve all the international problems of the world(hunger, energy, war, enviorment etc.)

first off you are wrong.
Take religion out of the equation you still have greed, jealousy, hatred, and crazy people.
you wouldn't have any reason for people to think about what they are doing other than laws.
the world would be a lot worse then it is now.

The thing is that without religion there would be no barriers between people, and people would be able to communicate better and we could co-operate better to get rid of e greed, jealousy, hatred, and crazy people

When have you hear him say that?

thanks for exactly stating what i just said, people don't want to change for other people.

it's not so much that we are trying to convert them to Christianity, they don't want to become westernized.

but you said just get rid of religion not anything else.

you see religion isn't the problem it is humanity's not wanting to change for other people.

Religion is the brick wall standing in the way between western and middle-eastern co-operation for peace in the middle-east. This is what im trying to say, that christian people try to convert islamic people while trying to help them. This agners islamic people, because trying to convert them is like stopming on their religion. Instead of just helping them.

You're probably right. I guess our beliefs sound as stupid to deeply religious people as theirs do to us. Provided neither side starts messing with plane controls or screwing around with nitroglycerin I don't really mind what people believe.

Even if their wrong.

Sometimes I get sad when I think off how much more pleasant the world would be without religion, if we could just imagine all the people living for today. We could easly solve all the problems of the world right now, if it were not for religion that set us apart. Im not talking about christianty, im talking about religion in general. If it were not for islam there probbably woulda been no need to go into afganisthan (and soon iran). If it were not for christianty we would not be sent back 400 years because of the dark ages of christianity in the middleage. If it were not for religion we would have a better world right now, even though its possible to obtain world peace with all theese religions the religions really make it alot harder and alot more dangerous.



TL;DR : W/O Religion we could solve all the international problems of the world(hunger, energy, war, enviorment etc.)

Maybe the issue is not with the religions...but those in the religions. I am not sure if you know this...but one of the central teachings in Christianity is reconciliation. The bringing together of the entire world. Not in a unilateralism sort of way...but that all should be saved because of Jesus. This still may come to see as an ignorant view...but let's consider that the last great Christian Movement, "The Holiness Movement", ended slavery. I think that is pretty neat. Religions can be used to accomplish many great things. I find Christianity to be the truth for Jesus said that he came to "proclaim all truth" (John 18:37). This truth was unity of the world--love for God and our neighbor (everyone). Are you following me here? I am theological studies major whose focus is in religious pluralism. I am not a univlersalist...but i feel that God has started a work in everyone and Jesus brought it to its fullness when he died on the cross. So, where I see the point you are trying to make, the problem is that Christians just do not seem to get the full picture. I believe that the Jews, Christians and Islam all worship the same God...now it is just accepting that maybe we should be focusing on our similarities, rather than our differences.

This is true, the religion itself is not a problem, but the ones who try to force it down everybody elses throath are. Im not attacking christianity , im attacking christians. This quote; www.zazzle.co.uk/gandhi_on_christians_postcard-239013302980986167
sums up what you are trying to say.

As you say, Christianity tries to fight all the problems i mentioned, but the thing is... that for some the fact that christians come to their home an try to advice them what to do, might feel like that the christians are making fun of their religion and culture. If the ones who came to tell them what to do were not religious at all, but learnt doctors, professors and genulgily just wanting the best for the people( and not try to convert them while teaching them to take care of themselves) , that kind of help would be easier to accept I think.



TL;DR? Christianity have done good at many problems, but they have created new ones too. Its easier to accept help from a doctor that teaches them about things like how to make easy medicine, treat wounds and avoid STD's, than a priest that tries to convert them from their religion that they have lived with for ages.

Throat forcing is never acceptable *giggity*. I would never want to ever make fun of anyone for how they practice there devotion to God. But, I will say that Christianity, as dogmatic as this sounds, does have the solution to all of the world problems. The issue is that most Christian who are doctors, engineers, physicians, ect who could benefit the world are among the high class citizens in the U.S. who only want to to see themselves get richer. I am also studying not for profit management and I want to open up a hospital in every major city that consists of people (Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhist ect) who regardless of what they get paid want to solve the minute problems of society before you try to start with the system. It will be a Christian organization but I will accept anyone who wants to serve people. I believe that is what Jesus would try to do. I want to train the homeless into the workforce...but first we need to feed, cloth, and shelter them. Do you see my point? We can make a difference in this world. Christianity calls for unselfishness...but for some reason so many people think that it is FULL of people who only care about themselves. The issue is that the majority defines the minority, just like al qaeda in Islam. I believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life...but the way Christians do things do not have to be the only way to Jesus. And some might call me a heretic for saying that. Jesus is the only way to God...but there are many different ways that one can come to Jesus. Did my long discourse make sense?

Also, I would argue that Christianity sets out to do all of those things you ended your statement with...the problem is that people refuse to be transformed into that likeness they were intended to be transformed in, the likeness of God expressed through his Son Jesus Christ.

so...what about the parts like where god killed 40 chidren with bears for mocking a bald guy, or when he terrified people into eating the flesh of the young, or where he flooded the planet just because he didnt like the way they turned out even though he already knew they would turn out like that because hes all knowing...what about those?

What about the time where God spared an entire nation because they repented of their sins and pagan ways? A group of people who slaughtered his people. You will have to refresh my memory on the eating flesh.

as mean as this might be. i would rather not be like god! look at the old testament. he was a sick twisted fuck playing a special version of the sims.

Did you ever notice that those were choices on the Israelite's part? They made their choice to not serve Him and he simply withdrew his presence.

For some reason I cannot reply to your other comments, so i'll reply to this one. Yes, I think he would agree with you, but even if there is one smart person that says something it does not have to be a fact. And now im tired, feeling my own intelectuallty floating away...

Yeah, I have understood that you are an intelectual human beeing and this pleases me, but I was just making sure that I would not get a stupid answer because I really, really dislike stupid answers. You are a smart christian, and I like having an argument with you. Gonna read the rest of your text now

So you are saying that humans cannot love without religion?... (in a nutshell)

And how can you be sure that your religion is true? How is that possible? Sicence is true, 1+1 = 2. 2+2=4, and so on. I would gladly belive any religion that can prove that their belif is the real deal, if God or whatever might or might not be out there would give a real sign(not a toast that looks like a Saint), I would belive it...

But everything else people have called signs might be dumb conquincidences.

Dont come at me with something like ; God works in mysterious ways, because thats just beeing bold and not trying to actually think.

I will not come at you with anything of the sort. I come to people logically. Have you not seen it in my argument thus far? Have you heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Even one of the top psychologist of our time saw that people have the natural inclination to discover the meaning of life. That is why as Christians it is essential that we meet the physical needs of a person before we can even come to people with spiritual necessities. Maslow believed that the only real way to achieve self actualization was through religion. We all have the general need to be a part of something bigger than ourselves. And I think that Maslow would agree with me.

It might have the answers to the world problems indeed, but the thing is that we have multiple religions, and theese religions do not co-operate. This is the barrier i've been talking about. If we only had one religion in this world, there would be no communication errors as a result of religious disagreements, which is now the main problem with countries in the middle-east.



Lets say that there would be no religion, would there then be communication errors as a result of religious disagreements? Nah, I tought not. If there was no religion the communication would be easier, and we would be able to solve the worlds problems faster than by first trying to convert everyone to christianty then start praying for something to happen instead of trying to fix things with sience.



TL;DR? idc, read again.

I am trying to say that there is beauty in religions. There is truth. There is love. Most all religions look for unity in some degree. Christianity is actually about getting everyone to realize this and then make a difference through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that come from justification and then the second work of Grace of sanctification dedicates ones whole being to loving God with an undivided heart and our neighbor unselfishly. To do away with religion is to do away with this truth.

That's be nice but I don't think the real problem is religion. It's just an excuse. I defer to the Wisdom of Christopher Brookmyre speaking through the medium of his character Angelique de Xavia.

"Human experience taught that when people wanted to look tough, they picked on easy targets. A short-arsed megalomaniac picked Jews. A Lilley-livered political mediocrity picked single mothers. A deludedly ambitious cardinal picked gays. A bloated Ugandan dictator picked Asians..."

Bottom line: people have and always will be dicks to one another. We have football violence in this country for christ sake! Islam for instance was set up so that people would be nice to one another regardless of culture or religion, it evens says in the Quar'an not to fight over that stuff, until some warmongering prick with some naive decided he didn't like some other people and used some obscure sub-text to say "kill non-believers"

Tl;DR? Religion isn't the root of the problem just a treatment gone wrong.

Religion is not the problem, religion is one of the many things that makes co-operation harder, because it creates barriers between people. I agree on that humans beliving in higer powers and that if they are kind to eachother they get eternal life aint a problem at all, the problem is that they stand between the people who can change the real problems and the problems.



TL;DR agreed on religion not beein problem, but its a brick wall with a few tiny holes in it standing before us and real co-operation for world-peace.

Religious conflict, financial inequality, addiction, and racial discrimination are in my eyes the biggest problems with private schools and censorship getting honourary mentions.

forgot a couple of commas right there, too tired...

he's talking about things in the bible that are wrong that weren't included in the link you sent him

really?...really?