blind faith

Am i the only one who noticed the alien in the back round.
Unless it's supposed to be there, haven't seen that episode.

I believe that is the alien, which the southpark creators "sneak" into every episode..
It always appears random places during an episode.

Yup, Buddhists have earned more respect from me.

Usually not every person of a religion believes every single word in their holy text.

True, but I've seen plenty of people praising Lama for being a loving, amazing, incredible person and whatnot. I'm just pointing out that he's not as great as we make him out to be.
but i'll take the red thumbs.

That comp of facts doesn't point out specific things today's Dalai Lama has done. If you could give specific examples of things the current one has done that are controversial, then your point would be much stronger.

hmm I see your point. I'll take my leave.

Thank you for being reasonable.

Yes. Since when did butthurt christians take over and start thumbing down all who question their religion? I thumb you back up good sir.

Which is more than can be said about the christian god

I wanted to say it, but I wasn't going to for respect purposes lol

.... and is also more than can be said about the lack of a Christian god.

And also about the lack of an invisible pink unicorn

Your argument is invalid

Yep, too bad they will just go "Omg you can't prove!" or " All your evidence is fake!" etc...

I just read through all of your comments and replies, and you're awesome. It's great to know that there is another logical Christian out there that realizes it is not impossible for science and Christianity to coincide. God Bless!

It's difficult to explain because they aren't compatible. (Past this point is my explanation, if you're going into it without being willing to question your beliefs, stop here.) This is why: If you believe in evolution then Adam and Eve can't be a real story. If it never happened then we don't actually have the original sin, the idea Christianity is based on. That means Jesus didn't die for anything because in the Bible he died to forgive our original sin. The original sin is the entire reason we get judged to go to heaven or hell anyways. So makes them obsolete. Now if you'd like to say we still have the original sin we go about it one of two ways. First way is that God created us with it, which means he can send you to Hell for his own mistake. That's crap. The second way is that we obtained it some other way God hasn't told us about. That means we are being punished for something we don't even know happened. Either way isn't a fair situation for us. To me this is enough evidence the Christian god isn't real. Even if you still believe he is, I don't see how you thinks he's something to worship. You seem to be falling more on the deist side of things than the Christian side, so I recommend reading up on it and seeing if it suits your beliefs better.

The same logic can be applied to athiest beliefs. Who created the universe? Where did the universe come from?

I mean isn't it a little selfish to think that us humans are the end-all be-all most powerful and almighty creatures that have ever existed? I think that God has always existed in some way. TIme is only relative, so I'm assuming in heaven time doesn't exist. It would obviously be hard for us humans to comprehend something not being created and just always existing. But I mean it all had to come from something. Isn't it realistic for there to be a being that existed solely in nothingness who wanted something more? Once again, nothingness is something not comprehensible to us humans because it is impossible for us to experience it. I believe that because God lives in such a timeless state and presides over such a position in which he created everything, that he has control over everything in existence. It's impossible for any living thing to understand things like that, but doesn't there have to be someone somewhere that does? I think that God loves us all and that God wants us all to love him, which is why he created an afterlife and why he wants us to pray and love him back as our creator. Even athiests have to consider what I'm saying as logical. I believe in science, but I also believe in Christianity. I don't necessarily think that they have to cancel each other out. I think the name of Christianity has been stained by bad people and that athiests use that as an excuse to bash all Christians and not even give us a chance. Sure there are stupid Christians, but there are also stupid athiests. I understand what you guys mean, but I just don't see the logic behind it. Science has to have some sot of logic behind it. The whole point of science is to answer "why?" and "how?" Why do we have ears? Why does that bird have bigger wings than that other bird? Why do volcanoes erupt upwards? Well why do we exist? How are we alive? How are we self aware?Think about it

couldn't have said it better.

My fucking brain is fried

Lol sorry I just wanted to get it all off my chest.

And I think that God intended for us all to be able to figure out how things work and why they happen. He couldn't have just blindly created everything without giving humans some ability to find out how it worked. I think he intended to make life more interesting and mysterious by letting us figure it all out.

Ok well, take pikachu

I feel like a philosopher

The thing is I can happily admit I don't know. When you're assuming a creator you have to know who or what created him. I haven't ruled god out but I don't think that he did it yet. I don't know and am willing to find out. With God you're stating something as fact whereas most intelligent atheists won't state it as fact. I'm not saying your wrong but I'm definitely not saying your right.

I'm sorry but I still don't find the logic in your comment. If you put all the humans together in the world we'd still make up just around 0% percent of the universe. We live on a planet that is 70% salt water, and much more is uninhabitable by humans. We don't live long enough to reach other planets that we could inhabit. And you think other's have a selfish thought for not believing in a God? It's selfish to think this entire universe was created for us to live in. We can't live or reach nearly 100 percent of it, but you still claim it's ours? Hell even the one planets we have doesn't even seem designed for us. The belief in God is the real selfish claim. We never said we are the most powerful, advanced creatures. In all of that universe there could be hundreds of species a million times more advanced than us and most atheist's can believe that that's possible. As a Christian you can't believe that. You believe we are the only one's created in God's image. The most powerful things to exist outside of Heaven and Hell. In reality all of the questions you asked at the end can be answered with science. The only one we can't answer is why we exist. But hell at this point it's easy to assume us humans don't have a purpose for existing, we are just animals like every other animal on the planet. We just happened to get lucky. Think about that

Nothing in the Bible says that we are the only intelligent life.

Yeah that seems like a pretty important thing to mention

I think God created a lot of things, but that he loves us the most because we are in His image.

krusty krab

Well by definition i had to learn in religion class, god has always existed because if at any point he didnt, he would not be god. basically god has always been, is, and always will be, otherwise he would not be god

Why does God have to be created? I mean, if He's supernatural, then He wouldn't need to be created. Just saiyen.

So why did the universe have to have a creator?

Because matter cannot simply spawn from absolutely nothing. That has been proven.

But an all-powerful being can.

You see, you've ruled out that matter can not spawn from nothing, then jump straight to "So there must have been a creator" instead of the menagerie of other possibilities. Eliminating one does not mean that another is automatically correct.

Really now? The way I see it, matter either exists or it doesn't matter cannot be fabricated from nothing by any natural laws. Before the matter was created, there was absolutely nothing. At all. Therefore, the matter HAD to have been created. All other theories HAVE to rely on the idea that the matter was spawned from nothing, and not only that, but INCONCEIVABLE AMOUNTS OF IT. To think for even a moment that that is possible without some sort of supernatural being is simply ridiculous.

But you have to prove that first. You can't say "Well, I don't see how matter can come from nothing. Supernatural super-penguin did it." There are steps that you missed.

And by the way, no one ever said matter came from nothing. We just don't know. That's not a bad thing. It's the step before knowledge is gained. For all we know this universe is part of a much larger multiverse that has laws and rules that we simply do not know that would allow matter to simply be created, but I won't say that, because I can't prove it. I just don't know.

Saiyan*
Give me a grammar nazi pics

Here you are

I have none.

Son, i am disappoint

who are you to say he's not a christian? very few christians are fundamentalists (those who believe the bible literally). there's really only a few requirements to being a christian (that most people would agree on in the modern day). That is that you believe in one, all powerful God, who sent his son Jesus to die for humanity's sins.

I pretty much agree with SgtObvious's views. I think God created the universe, set the big bang in motion, etc. He let evolution play out until we had what He considered humans, who are different from other creatures.. Old Testament stories of the 7 days of creation were not to be taken literally. They were poems, but have messages that can be applied to how you should live your life. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.

I believe in the big bang, evolution, the possibility of lifeforms on other planets, etc. etc. But I believe God set that all in motion.

my reply to your other post may explain that as well. i'll try to put it into other words though. if you don't want to continue talking about it, i understand, but atleast hear me out on this.

i don't make a choice to believe in some thing. did you make a choice to like rock music (or what ever kind of music you like)? did you make a choice to think a certain joke was funny? no, you think it's funny because that's just the way you are. I believe in God and i can't change that belief. that's just what i believe! i also happen to believe in evolution. the evidence is overwhelming. so i believe in it.

so don't call me a christian, thats fine. call me what ever you want to call me, the name is meaningless.

We both believe that God played our role in creating us, and we both believe that Jesus was a manifestation/son of God that died for our sins. We also believe that many things in the bible aren't meant to be taken literally, but as stories meant to convey messages and ways to worship God. If we believe in the most fundamental ideas of our religion and practice it as our individual sects practice it (I am an Orthodox Christian, therefore I have different traditions and practices to worship Christianity than mikejj does as a Protestant), then how are we not Christian?

So would you agree, then, that all these people attempting to "disprove" science (after there have been literally countless hours of research done on whatever they were trying to prove, [since no scientist would present anything without being "mostly" sure of it being true] then it being challenged by the ENTIRE scientific community) on places such as Youtube, Facebook, the FJ comment section, 4chan, are complete morons?

First off, there are plenty of Christians who believe in evolution.

I just interpret it in a slightly different way. Like I think "the world was created 6000 years ago" wasn't necessarily meant to be taken literally. Like I said in a post below, time is only relative to us. 6000 years was probably picked because it was a long enough time ago. Many things in the bible are meant to teach a lesson or to help inform people through stories. I just think that it wasn't meant to be taken literally.

I'd see where you're coming from, except the fact that, you know, the bible states that it's the ultimate authority on everything and is absolute truth.

And another thing.... if all the stories in the bible aren't meant to be taken literally, why believe in God?

What I said was that the stories are there to teach a lesson and not necessarily to follow exactly what the person or the people did. The whole point of the bible is to teach people how to be better people and how to worship the creator who made them as they are, with free will and the ability to do good. The whole point of the bible is "God made you, and God loves you, so you should act like good people, which is what He wants." But God gave people the power of free will so that they can choose to follow in his path or veer away and live an evil life. Athiests and even some Christians take the bible WAY too literally. Now I'm not saying whether the stories happened or not; I'm just saying that the stories are there to help Christians follow the path of God by teaching important lessons.

And I can understand that, and I get where you're coming from. But I still don't see the point of just saying that everything that science says is true but God still did it. Why say you understand all of the scientific theories, accept them as truth, then accept something as ludicrous as the notion of a God as truth?

To you, God is ludicrous. To me He isn't. It's a matter of opinion. I believe that God is the creator of everything, including evolution. I believe that evolution occured, and everything that has been "proven" by science and is considered fact is true, but that the original creator is God. I think that there is one single being who existed in nothingness (who was never created or born, but just always existed) and decided to create the universe. It's impossible for humans to understand nothingness because we can't experience it, so it's hard to comprehend that something could have always existed. God decided to create everything and eventually facilitated evolution to create modern, intelligent, self-aware humans.

You have just killed a few of my sterotypes. Thank you

As a protestant christian, you're given the freedom to pick out what you want from the bible. i don't think God would want us to be mindless drones, believing every thing we read. We should believe what we think is right.

Also what I think a lot of people don't understand, religious or atheist, is that you don't just make a choice to believe in God. it's not like "oh yeah, it makes sense that God exists. I'm going to start believing in him now," and then you are persuaded that he doesn't exist. any one who thinks like that lacks faith. i know God exists because i can feel his love for me. i won't shove it down your throat, but i will pray that you may some day be able to feel God's love.

You're not helping this cause. The man above us was just accusing us of creating our own religions which you in essence have just done by picking out only bits and pieces of the bible that you like. God definitely told us what we should believe in. Its not up to us to reject or accept whatever we want.

then according to you, no one is a christian. i mean LITERALLY no one. Look at Matthew 5:29-30. It says if your eyes cause you to sin, gouge them out, and if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. every one sins with their eyes and hands, but i dont think there has ever been any one to actually go through with doing it.

i really don't think God cares if i don't believe in creationism. it's not like i'm not believing in the 10 commandments. not believing in creationism doesn't affect how i live as a Christian. and here's the definition of Christian: " Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus" I do those things, therefore I am a Christian.

I think youve confused me for a fundamentalist. Im not saying the bible should all be taken literally im just saying you cant just pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to accept. Every passage in the bible, used in context, has something to teach us.

and to the use of context, very well then. since we both agree that we should take matthew 5:29-30 in context, then why not Genesis? By the way, matt. 5:29-30 doesn't leave much room for interpretation, it is pretty clear cut. but anyways, using that same logic, why does a day have to be a day? what does "creation" really mean?

Look up the two conflicting stories of creation in Genesis 1 opposed to Genesis 2. You cannot believe in both. So are you not a Christian because you only believe one?

Once again im not a fundamentalist, Im a Catholic. I never said that the creation stories are meant to be taken literal. By my first comment i was simply pointing out how you had contradicted yourself by professing to be christian, and then immediately saying that you only use parts of the bible that you like. Not every passage in the Bible was meant to be taken literally. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't disregard them then. They are there to teach us all lessons.

okay you're right, i did say that and i should have put it into better words (i was really tired when i wrote it). but i didn't mean it the way most people do. i don't mean it in the sense that because i like to drink or think lustful thoughts, that i should exclude those parts from my beliefs. because i know in my heart that those are things God does not want me to do (or atleast try my best to limit). what i should have said is that you don't need to believe in certain parts of the bible, like the creation story. why? because it doesn't matter. imagine the most devout christian who didn't believe in creationism, compared to a fundamentalist who goes around bashing others views. thats really what i was trying to get at.

Ahhh now i see what your getting at. I guess i agree with you to a certain extent. I agree it is not a good idea to bash others views and put them down for believing something, but i also believe that people can and should get together to challenge each others beliefs in a respectful way. When people just let each other be without question, then you are starting to be a relativist which i think is a bad road to take. If theyre hot, good. If theyre cold, at least theyre cold, not luke warm. People should have strong beliefs.

yeah, i love debating over these kinds of things, but not just for the sake of winning an argument. i like to have my beliefs challenged, otherwise i'd just be living in my own little bubble. and i hope other people are open to their beliefs being challenged, otherwise the debate is pointless.

okay so you're not a fundamentalist, but who are you to say that some one is not a christian because they don't believe in the story of creation? here are some more definitions of Christian:

one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

So you're telling me that even though I fit these definitions, because I believe in evolution I'm not a Christian? Because of some arbitrary definition you've made up? Unless there is a verse in the new testament where Jesus says "You must believe every thing in the old testament" (the new testament obviously hadn't been written yet), then I fit the definition of a Christian.

Leaving this conversation after deeming you hopeless. Goodbye, you've been brainwashed.

here's what i'll also add. i went to church until i was about 11 or 12. i didn't really have an understanding of God then, he's kind of like santa or the easter bunny up until then. i was an atheist for about 4 years after that. i had no one trying to convince me God existed, no pressure from family or friends to believe in God. I began to think more deeply about it and open up to the possibility that he existed. I eventually felt that he existed. So it's not like my church "brainwashed" me. No one would have noticed any thing different about me between these two times, I'm still the same person, I just have a different belief.

By the Nine Divine!

You had 8 thumbs before I came along....

that man was a legend, revolutionary and... and... Epic...

YES This is exactly what I believe. I try explaining it to people and they just don't understand.

That's actually what the pope has come out and said.

I believe in god, but I also believe in that maybe all the science and knowledge we have today are biproducts or the outcome of the things he did. I mean look at it all, when it boils down to it, most things in life make no sense whatsoever. We have just come to accept things the way they are and apply physics laws in a better effort to understand how our world works.

Here's an idea.






What if no one cares?

Maybe you don't but some people do or else this discussion wouldn't be here in the first place.

Arguing about it is silly. People believe what they believe, and it is INCREDIBLY hard to change someone's mind.

True, but some people (like myself) would like to sit down and have actual conversations about this. I know I probably won't change minds, but I thought I would provide as much rationality to my side as I can.

Homestuck is the reason the universe exists. This is all.

That's what I believe too. I believe God indirectly created everything. I also believe he indirectly influences the decisions of people.

I believe similar to that. I believe everything he created was meant to be as it should. Science and all. I believe he can see all possibilities and outcomes that are possible, but he allows man to make the choices based upon the world we live in today and possibly sprinkles a few things himself here and there. We just tend to think he will gloriously desend from heaven and say I HAVE DONE THESE THINGS when in reality we are too blind to see the small things lol.

what made god?

If you go off how religion (including myself) views things, it is said he was not made. He always has been. We as humans with a limited view on life see things as a straight line, with both beginning and end. However, God has neither and has an existance more like a circle. There is no stop nor start, it just keeps going in a way that is quite hard to comprehend. And if you say how is that possible, then look at the law of conservation of matter then it states that matter can not be destroyed nor made. Thus it has no ending nor beginning, which shows that such an existence is plausible.

hm, ok.