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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#568 - jewninja (03/20/2012) [-]
see i want to say something contrary, but it gets harder and harder as america gets worse and worse
see i want to say something contrary, but it gets harder and harder as america gets worse and worse
User avatar #600 to #568 - senemous (03/20/2012) [-]
I know things seem that way, but its just because your getting older and realizing the state of things more and more. America has been this way for a long time but it's better here then a lot of other places in the rest of the world.
#603 to #600 - jewninja (03/20/2012) [-]
there is no reason to not celebrate the many pleasures that we, as americans, can enjoy. However, just because we live a good life does not mean that we need to stand idly by while our way of life is slowly degraded. Just because our lives are good does that mean that we can't strive for improvement, especially when the goods and rights that make our country better are being systematically destroyed and our way of living is being forcibly changed?   
just because we dont live in squalor does not mean we cannot strive for a better life (or the maintenance of this life)
there is no reason to not celebrate the many pleasures that we, as americans, can enjoy. However, just because we live a good life does not mean that we need to stand idly by while our way of life is slowly degraded. Just because our lives are good does that mean that we can't strive for improvement, especially when the goods and rights that make our country better are being systematically destroyed and our way of living is being forcibly changed?
just because we dont live in squalor does not mean we cannot strive for a better life (or the maintenance of this life)
User avatar #628 to #603 - senemous (03/20/2012) [-]
Sorry man, you're naive if you think the US is going to change for the better, it is and will slowly degrade until someone with power and influence does something radical to change it (example: FDR). And when that someone fails show up then it will collapse. That's how the Romans did it, that's how we do it and have done it and will do it till the end. We're a republic, this path is intrinsic to the way human nature behaves inside the system of a republic. But relax, relatively speaking there's a long time before any of that will come to pass.
You can strive to protect those rights of yours which you believe are being "systematically destroyed" but in reality those rights only exist as long as its convenient for the society you live in. Look at how long racism lasted in the South. It allowed unconstitutional laws to be enforced which prevented black people from voting. Anyway I've gone on way too long and I admire your optimistic view of things, all I'm saying is don't let the corruption stress you out because it isn't worth getting upset over what you have no say in.
User avatar #635 to #628 - jewninja (03/20/2012) [-]
thats the first time that someone has ever called my view optimistic, but i think i have left out a key portion of my beliefs
i think the current system of government (ie republic democracy) is inherently corrupt (looks like you agree. My solution is not to wait for a leader to step up (really fdr?) because the leaders in this style of government are bought and paid for just like the bills that govern the country. instead of passively waiting to be 'granted' rights, we must rise up and restore ourselves to the appropriate levels of freedom
example- instead of occupy wallstreet it should have been burn wallstreet and violently overthrow the current regime and replace it with a new system
if we let the citizenry decide how they want to be represented we will achieve a much better, freer system which would (hopefully) check against abuses against individuals (slavery included)
and a side note on slavery, it was not widespread in the south as people like to believe and although there was support for it, it was mostly mobilized by the few, privileged members of society who had enough money to own any number of slaves (similar to how americans support corporate tax cuts etc even when it goes against their interests)
User avatar #636 to #635 - senemous (03/20/2012) [-]
Ah, so you say you want a revolution. You could do all that but whatever system you set up to replace the current one will turn out the same. People haven't changed nor will they. Whatever system of rules you set up after you've done away with the old system will have holes in. People will then exploit these holes for personal gain and then we're right back to where we were. Then someone else will come knocking on your door with a gun singing viva la revolution. Your enemy is not the powers that be but the very fabric their laws are written on, namely human nature. As long as greed and fear exist they will perpetuate the disorders you see today.
FDR was the example I used because he was a great leader. I have no idea about the particulars of the laws he passed or any of that but he took away people's fear and replaced it with hope. While the laws he passed may be an economic hindrance even at the time of his presidency the US as a nation recovered because he was able to change the attitudes and beliefs of the people.
I never said anything about slavery, I was talking about racism or the attitude that black people were inferior to white people. I can assure you it was (unfortunately) quite rampant throughout all of the US in our country's history.
User avatar #657 to #636 - jewninja (03/21/2012) [-]
I totally agree that any system which is static is subject to corruption at any level, but you assume one would use the revoltuion to establish another 'democratic republic' but instead a system which is based on radical change, ie a government which would require massive rewriting every few years (which is the system that was suggested by the founding fathers [jefferson specifically]) instead of allowing laws to build on each other and systems of governance to stay the same, we allow the system of governing to change just like the prevailing social order and adjust to the needs of the people
Those racist beliefs almost exclusively cropped up as a result of people justifying slavery (they are only not people so you can treat them like animals) and is a result of social engineering which is similar to the way that media manipulates public opinion now (although obviously in a more personal, slower way which specifically makes the idea last longer as it is passed down through teaching instead of being evaluated as a stand alone idea)
User avatar #659 to #657 - senemous (03/22/2012) [-]
I guess that could work, but what will happen to the people in power every time you rewrite the system of laws, if you leave them be they will still have the connections the accrued while they were in power and will be able to project their power and influence for personal gain. For example: the two party system works in the US today. How will you prevent something like that from existing?
User avatar #664 to #659 - jewninja (03/22/2012) [-]
well the 2 party system is quite silly, imagine instead that we vote/support candidates because of the positions that they hold instead of the positions that we are told to follow. The party system is one of the main ways that corruption has seeped into the current system and has caused insane amounts of political stagnation (just look at congress today)
Hopefully the constant change in government will cause enough turnover that political connections will not be of such great influence. The only drawback of having no parties is that people will have to actually stay educated and current about government instead of blindly following a random candidate because they have the 'seal of approval' from some corrupt, silly 'party'
User avatar #665 to #664 - senemous (03/22/2012) [-]
And there lies the rub, people would rather blindly follow someone politically because they don't make the connection that the current corruption, which has a negative impact on their day to day, is a result of their voting in ignorance. In order to have a perfect government you need perfect people, and they quite frankly don't exist. That is why politics is pointless. That is why revolution is pointless. Government is a gauze placed on the open and the bleeding wound of the dying animal that is all nations. That's why I say enjoy the peace while it lasts, because once you start flipping the status quo, there will be war, there will be blood, and some of it might end up being yours. So you could do all that regime change futility, or you could work at the current regime by touching those directly around you in a positive manner. Getting them to make good decisions rather then bad ones and then hoping they will do as you do and affect others. Make the people better and the nation will follow. Change the government and you will have changed nothing.
User avatar #666 to #665 - jewninja (03/23/2012) [-]
"Government is a gauze placed on the open and the bleeding wound of the dying animal that is all nations."-possibly the best description ive ever heard... ron swanson would be proud
I'm not emphasis regime change, but an actual paradigm shift in the way that everyone lives their lives, the idea being that the ignorance and apathy of the population is a result of the forces of the media and the failing education system which shouldnt exist anyways
Government in the current sense does act like an old bandage, bringing about more problems (infection) because the same idea is allowed to fester and become corrupted, but the practical 'revolution' would shift the way we perceive society and 'government' and the way we teach future generations to interact with each other... The current generation may be buggered but it only takes one generation to cause a massive change in the way humans interact
User avatar #668 to #666 - senemous (03/23/2012) [-]
I'm down, let's do this thing.
#669 to #668 - jewninja (03/24/2012) [-]
when blood runs through the streets like rivers, i shall knock on your door and we shall watch it all burn down...
#586 to #568 - anonymous (03/20/2012) [-]
http://www.independent (co) (uk) /news/uk/crime/crime-rates-in-england-and-wales-worse-than-us-2042216.html
#596 to #586 - jewninja (03/20/2012) [-]
thats interesting since we still incarcerate a higher proportion of our population, wage a war on drugs and terror that have destroyed our civil liberties, use our legislative body to pass bills which serve to send more money up to the mighty corporations by taking it from the rest of the population, and take the money we are trying to 'save' from education and social (non-entitlement) services... I love my country but if we cant look past nationalistic pride we can not bring about the change that will restore our country to the great place it can be
thats interesting since we still incarcerate a higher proportion of our population, wage a war on drugs and terror that have destroyed our civil liberties, use our legislative body to pass bills which serve to send more money up to the mighty corporations by taking it from the rest of the population, and take the money we are trying to 'save' from education and social (non-entitlement) services... I love my country but if we cant look past nationalistic pride we can not bring about the change that will restore our country to the great place it can be
#607 to #596 - anonymous (03/20/2012) [-]
and yet you act like we're the only ones that do this SMH
And yes I agree with you but you can't act like we're the only people that do this and praise the people who are actually WORSE than we are
#620 to #607 - jewninja (03/20/2012) [-]
ill grant that GB is more restrictive, but i never said that GB is good i said that it is harder to defend america from attacks on it
it is harder because of the many ways that we are acting against the will and wellbeing of the people, i cannot comment on britain because my education on their current political events and actions is lacking and frankly i could give a **** if other countries are free

I want a better america, a freer america, and an america that responds to the will of its people instead the will of the select few... this is because i live here (the most important aspect for me) and because the guidelines that are laid out as the foundation of the US governmental system specifically enumerate many rights which are now being infringed upon, either give everyone their rights or give up the pretense that america is a country that is governed for and by the people
pic related, libertarians ftw (no not the 'liibertarian' movement that is continually mocked by the mainstream, the sociopolitical theory that small government is the best government)
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